Enfield #4's with "shot out" barrels?

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I have been shooting in the Cast Bullet Assoc postal matches with my 03A3 and wanted to try out the two #4's that I have. I got both used some years ago and have plinked with them.
I did a cast of the bore at the muzzle end of both and I found that the Matlby is .303 in the lands and .315 in the grooves while the Savage is .305 lands and .316/.317 grooves.
I was thinking of ordering 100 .313 180 grain bullets from Penn Bullets and take them to the range and see what happens. I have heard that once you are above .315 the barrel is shot out.

I realize that I need to start haunting the gunshows and shops for an Enfield in better shape but was wondering if there is anything I can do or any molds that would be big enough for these bores?

I normally shoot at 50 yards with the kids and the postal matches would be at 100 yards, I don't have access to any range that is longer so would never shoot above that.

any thoughts?

[docone31]

With cast, I wouldn't worry about it.
Remember, fit is king!
The .303 makes a great paper patch round also. That might make the barrel perform also.

[bruce drake]

I use LEE's 8mm (.323) 170gr RN boolit resized to .314 in my very generous barreled Enfield #4 to get Excellent accuracy out to 100 yards. I put a gas cap on with a .323 LEE Sizer and then take it through the .314 sizer with no problems. relube again with Liquid Alox and load them into the brass with no issues. I also use this same boolit in a Arisaka Type 99 that keyholes .311 and .312 jacketed bullets and it rips the center out of the target at 50 yards with the fatter bullet.

The big thing as docone31 said is fit. If you are shooting CBA Postal Matches than you'll be competing with some good shooters so make sure you do the best you can :)

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

last year I placed last in most of the rifle matches but learned alot and had a good time.

I like your idea of the Lee 8mm 170gr RN. I know Lee will make you a custom sizer for about $25, I did this for my .360 .38 S&W rounds, so I could easily have them make me a .316 sizer and get a good fit.

Bruce - thanks for the come back! I will look in to this.

Hey I see you are Marines, I was Navy but my Dad was on Iwo Jima for the entire battle (along with Roi Namur, Saipan and Tinian) I created a webstie for him http://www.hq224usmc.com there are pictures from PI in 1943 as well as battle pictures and pictures of the islands as they are today.
He was also on the Military Channel show "Battle Rats:Iwo Jima" where his ashes were scattered on Mt Suribachi

Here is the raw video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y6ibhPir30

[Piedmont]

Ben Cartwright, Those rifles aren't shot out. Those dimensions are in the normal range. The only problem is you expecting them to be .303/.311 like some book said they were supposed to be.

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Piedmont,
Thank you, I will cast them again to make sure of the dimensions and then begin to work on a boolit and load, and then test them out.

Thanks everyone for all the help!

[jonk]

You might also have to either modify a sizer die and/or seater, or use the seater from, say, an 8mm Mauser.

I have one 303 that slugs .317. I had to take the 303 sizer and carefully hone out the neck to .315, and seat in an 8mm mauser seating die.

Otherwise a suitably oversized bullet will surely bind in the dies, and is a pain to remove.

[303Guy]

The .303 makes a great paper patch round also. That might make the barrel perform also.I have a shot out bore carbine MLE with a bore measuring .313 at the muzzle and it tapers down toword the muzzle end where the rifling is a lot sharper than at the breach. It shoots paper patch real good.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/BSAM003.jpg

To me a cordite 'worn' bore is a good thing.

[Ray1946]

I think a whole lot of manuels are full of you know what! I have never seen a Lee-Enfield with a .312 groove. ALL of the close to new or excellent 5-groove barrels have .314 or .315 groove diameters. I also think one of the best over-the-counter molds is the Lyman 314299. I have a No.4MkII and a No.1MkIII* and both of them have perfect 5-groove barrels that are .315 in diameter...................................

[45 2.1]

Any thoughts?

Shooting undersize boolits is a waste of components. Measure the inside diameter (without any crimp left on your fired cases)of fired cases from both rifles and determine what that is for your two rifles. Take the smaller diameter and get a Lee push thru sizer made for that diameter. Aquire a loverin drive band style 8mm mold and GC, size, lube it to 0.323" or so. Run that thru the push thru die, then load it. Lee collect dies work to size the neck and give you a lot more reloads per case. You'll be a lot happier with the results.

[Sweetpea]

So here's a question...

I read somewhere that with such a large difference from bore size to groove size, with say .315 grooves you can shoot a .314 boolit and excess lead will end up filling the grooves.

Does that make sense, or sound like bull?

I want to start working on my MkIV no1, and the bore is at .303, with a .315 groove (2 groover).

My plan is to use a boolit around 200 grains with a gas check.

.314 is much easier to come by than .316 (moneywise).

[45 2.1]

I read somewhere that with such a large difference from bore size to groove size, with say .315 grooves you can shoot a .314 boolit and excess lead will end up filling the grooves. Does that make sense, or sound like bull? I want to start working on my MkIV no1, and the bore is at .303, with a .315 groove (2 groover).

I've seen one 2 groove MkIV. It had a narrow groove and a lot of bore...... unlike most of the other 2 groove barrels i've tried. In your case, what you've stated would be true. Not much boolit material would be in the groove. Whether it will shoot accurately easily is an unknown.

[DIRT Farmer]

I posted some time back of the trials and tribulations of my Savage #4 2 grove and attempts to get it to shoot paper patch as nothing else short of a custom mould would fill it out. I even bought a second barrel from GPC and tried that. I really like the way it carries and a 10 round magazine is generaly more than enough. Any way after much messing around and still getting medicore results I finaly got smart enough to mesure the case mouth. The Lee 8 mm sized to .325 really just lubed not sized will load in the chamber without restince and I get passable groups at 50 yards. A coyote at 100 may or may not be in trouble.

[bruce drake]

DIRT Farmer, not meaning to hijack the thread but who pulled your Enfield barrel in Indiana? I've got a #4 that will needs rebarreling and I have a barrel from JeffNZ in 303 Pygmy that I'd like to get spun on.

I may be retiring to Indianapolis in June so we may be neighbors soon.

Bruce

[303Guy]

...

I want to start working on my MkIV no1, and the bore is at .303, with a .315 groove (2 groover).

My plan is to use a boolit around 200 grains with a gas check.

.314 is much easier to come by than .316 (moneywise).MkIV no1? In two-groove? Did you perhaps mean No4 Mk1? I have two two-groove No4's. One has a .304 bore and .318 groove. The throat has a 1 degree taper starting at .318 and ends at the bore and that forms the throat. The problem with it with cast boolits is that the excess boolit material gets swaged rearward forming these two uneven protrusions.

I think this shows the uneven base clearly enough.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/Patchfailure.jpg

[Sweetpea]

[QUOTE=303Guy;2046520] The problem with it with cast boolits is that the excess boolit material gets swaged rearward forming these two uneven protrusions.

[/QUOTE

Would you think a gas check would make much difference?

[Multigunner]

One thing to look out for is the SMLE MkI barrel.
They had authorized rebarreling these rifles in 1917 but many were never rebarreled.
The original barrel was optimised for the MkVI cartridge rather than the MkVII, besides longer throat they reverse taper lapped the bores in an attempt to reduce bullet friction so the bullet would leave the muzzle of the shorter SMLE barrel at the same velocity as it would from the longer LE barrel.

This actually worked, but due to rather loose manufacturing tolerances some barrels ended up with the bore diameter at the muzzle being around .321.
Accuracy was adversely affected.

A few os those SMLE MkI barrels may have ended up being used in assembling Dispersal rifles, at least two owners of dispersal rifles have reported muzzle bore diameter of .321.
The SMLE MkI barrels should not have the SC or HV markings of the later barrels.

Main thing is not to mistake a SMLE MkI barrel as being worn out, they came from the factory that way, and shoot okay with MkVI or equivalent ammunition.

[303Guy]

I have one of those reverse taper barrels. It has a tighter area in the middle of the barrel. It has a bore of .310 at the muzzle. I have not tested it in the field yet.