best mold for 12g rifled barrel

[chrisw]

Hi!

For my birthday I got this real nice rifled barrel for my 870 and I'd like to start loading some slugs but reading several years worth of posts I'm ending up very confused.

which molds would be best for 12g rifled barrels?

thank you!
chris

[mongoosesnipe]

i like the lyman sabot slug http://www.midwayusa.com/product/778041/lyman-1-cavity-shotshell-sabot-slug-bullet-mold-12-gauge-681-diameter-525-grain

[longbow]

Depends on what you want and end use ~ hunting, plinking, paper punching or just putting big holes in things.

Most likely the two easiest for you would be the Lee Drive Key slug or Lyman sabot slug both of which load into standard shotcups and there is considerable load data for both.

I believe both of these are available as commercially cast slugs as well so you could try them to see what you gun likes before buying a mould. turbo1889 was/is selling Lyman sabot slugs and I am sure I have seen Lees available.

There are other options but most get into custom moulds and/or advanced loading knowledge.

Longbow

[TRG3]

Probably the least expensive mold would be one by Lee, either the Key Drive or .690 roundball. Both are good for deer hunting. When I get a new mold, I run a cotton swab around the edges to find and remove any burrs that would cause the cast lead to hang up rather than drop out of the mold as it should. You will find that casting your own frees you from depending on purchasing much more expensive factory loads coupled with the satisfaction that you did this yourself.

[6pt-sika]

You can buy a hell of alot of factory loaded sabot slugs with what you'll expend trying to find the right combination !

I like shooting cast as much as anybody , but personally I think it's a waste of time trying to find something better then the factory loaded jacketed sabot slugs (or even that will equal it).

Now granted the world does not revolve around what I think , so have at it and best of luck !

[longbow]

I can't speak on either the Lee or Lyman out of a rifled barrel but I shot some 0.735" round balls out of a rifled 870 and got several 2" +/- a bit groups at 50 yards first time out. Personally I would take a bore size round ball over a sabot round any day. I like big holes in things.

They certainly wouldn't have the range of many sabot rounds so there is a disadvantage but they didn't take any load development to get that accuracy either... and I like big holes in things! The things will just be a little closer.

[chrisw]

I don't mind learning more advanced techniques. I've loaded shotguns 20 years so maybe its time to learn. I guess that was my point behind my question, is there 1 or 2 consistent "good slugs" or am I in for buying 8 molds and trying to reinvent the wheel each time I build loads for them?

I guess I'm hoping to find one or two winners, and don't mind if I've got to learn a bit to load them right.


I do want to try some round balls too! Did you slug your barrel, or once its this big, is .735 close enough? I've kept thinking how fun it would be to load a full bore slug but gosh, it would be huge!

thanks all!

[6pt-sika]

I can't speak on either the Lee or Lyman out of a rifled barrel but I shot some 0.735" round balls out of a rifled 870 and got several 2" +/- a bit groups at 50 yards first time out. Personally I would take a bore size round ball over a sabot round any day. I like big holes in things.


About a year or so ago I had both a Remington 1100 and 870 smoothbore rifle sighted slug guns . I shot the El Cheapo Winchester 1 ounce 2 3/4" Foster slugs in them and both from the bench would keep 3 and sometimes 5 in 2-3" at 50 yards with the open sights .

I had thought this was a fluke but I tried it 3 or 4 times and it was pretty much the same each time . Also talked with some guys on other forums that said they got pretty much the same results .

For saboted loads in the 12 and 20 gauge I found it relatively easy with a scope of course to shoot 3 shot groups at 100 yards in 1 1/2" .

By no means am I trying to talk ANYONE out of trying etc , these are just the results I've gotten .

[TRG3]

6pt-sika...Sounds like you've found a deadly combo with those shotguns and factory slugs. I'd hang on to those firearms. When you consider all that's involved in loading your own (press, hulls, primers, powder, wads, lead, time, etc.) it may indeed be less expensive to simply utilize various factory loads to see what your shotgun likes. I know that for me the inexpensive Federal Tru-Balls shoot very good out of my 12 gauge H&R USH, a rifled shotgun. With all of that said, I enjoy being able to roll my own which adds a sense of satisfaction to taking a deer. That's the same reason I often reach for one of my flintlocks instead of a shotgun to take a whitetail. The point I'm at in my hunting life is that I need to expand my experience to maintain my interest, especially now that I'm retired and have much more time to pursue game. Just shooting a deer, squirrel, or rabbit (my main hunting) is not the challenge it once was, so I've changed my methods to make it more of an effort to be successful. (I even went after squirrels with my longbow, an effort that definitely equaled catch and release!) While this is just me, YMMV. Best of hunting.

[6pt-sika]

6pt-sika...Sounds like you've found a deadly combo with those shotguns and factory slugs. I'd hang on to those firearms. When you consider all that's involved in loading your own (press, hulls, primers, powder, wads, lead, time, etc.) it may indeed be less expensive to simply utilize various factory loads to see what your shotgun likes. I know that for me the inexpensive Federal Tru-Balls shoot very good out of my 12 gauge H&R USH, a rifled shotgun. With all of that said, I enjoy being able to roll my own which adds a sense of satisfaction to taking a deer. That's the same reason I often reach for one of my flintlocks instead of a shotgun to take a whitetail. The point I'm at in my hunting life is that I need to expand my experience to maintain my interest, especially now that I'm retired and have much more time to pursue game. Just shooting a deer, squirrel, or rabbit (my main hunting) is not the challenge it once was, so I've changed my methods to make it more of an effort to be successful. (I even went after squirrels with my longbow, an effort that definitely equaled catch and release!) While this is just me, YMMV. Best of hunting.

The 1100 and 870 went down the road , as some others that were there when I shot them a couple times wanted them more then I was willing to keep them !

My two Savage bolt action rifled sabot guns however are not going anywhere anytime soon !

I've been shooting three drillings I have some lately . Two are 16 and the other is 12 . They have done nicely at 50 yards with plain old foster slugs and a touch better with the Breneke stuff .

Picked up a nice old Remington Model 48 16 gauge last month that has a Cutts on the end of the vent rib barrel with a Spreader choke . I plan on seeing how that one does with factory loaded #1 Buck , my handloaded #1 Buck and two different factory Foster slug loads .

In the past I used several different pre 1900 lever actons with home cast bullets and still do so with my herd of 444's !

The next on my agenda of deer progectiles most likely will be a round ball load for my W&C Scott 10 gauge 2 7/8" damascus gun and a roundball load for my Parker GH 16 gauge damascus .

I can relate to the kill loosing a bit of it's excitement . My life time tally on whitetails is over 200 in about 40 years of hunting !
I do however get wound up tight about chasing the Sika deer on the Eastern Shore of Maryland a couple times each year .

I meant to pop a couple squirrels this year with my grandfathers old W&C Scott and a rabbit or two . Had two reasons to want to pull that one off . The first being I'd never killed a squirrel or rabbit with his old gun and of course the second would be for making a nice Brunswick Stew . But I failed to get myself out and do that .

The last squirrels I killed were done in with an old Marlin Model 1892 32 cal . These were home cast in a heel bullet mold I had cut from an old Lyman cherry . 90 grain bullet pushed with 2.5 grains of Unique at maybe 900 FPS . Popped two at about 20-25 yards and that was that . For those unaware the Marlin Model 1892 or 92 are pretty much the same as the present day Marlin 39A 22 cal , however these 1892/92 could be purchased in either 22 or 32 and the 32 came with firing pins for both centerfire and rinfire .

[longbow]

To be honest I have also had some very good results using Winchester, Remington and Federal Foster loads in both Remington single shot and Browning BPS smoothbores ~ both with rifle sights.

In fact I am surprised at how well they shot considering virtually all Foster slugs I have recovered show large upset from firing usually with wad impressions in the base, smeared "rifling" and they are much shorter and fatter then before they were fired... but they go where they are pointed which is more than I can say for most of the home cast Fosters I have tried.

One stellar performer for me was the BPI AQ slug. If they weren't so expensive I would buy more.

Per TRG3 though, I like to roll my own too and I like big 'ol round balls.

chrisw:

I took a chance on ordering the 0.735" round ball mould knowing my smoothbores are all around 0.729"/0.730" bore. I figured the small amount of lead around the equator would swage easily... and so it does.

Before loading one I took a wood dowel and mallet, dropped a ball into the chamber then tapped it through the forcing cone. it really didn't take much effort at all so about that time I lost any concerns I had. I have shot quite a few with no problems and they did shoot well from a borrowed rifled gun (not many rifled shotguns around here).

I would have bought a closer to bore size mould if one was readily available but at the time I did not know about Jeff Tanner and there were no other "bore size" ball moulds available.

When I look at some of the full bore slugs especially the real heavyweights like Accurate Molds has, I have to say that there is a lot more lead to swage to size there than with a slightly oversize ball.

If you are thinking full bore slug. Accurate does very nice work. Personally I would tend to stay with a more or less standard weight of somewhere between 1 oz. and 1 3/8 oz. simply because there are more usable load recipes available... and recoil is bearable! I guess when you get into the really heavyweights, buckshot or heavy birdshot loads could be used and that might be good enough but there are not many sources for load data when you get over about 600 grs. I based my 0.735" ball loads (585 gr.) on a published load for 610 gr. slug.

As mentioned though, I find that a ball or slug in shotcup seems to be easier to load and gives me generally better accuracy.

Longbow

[chrisw]

thanks all for the great answers! I've got some thinking to do...

oh, thanks especially for the tip keeping it lighter! I really like my shoulder...

[6pt-sika]

I really like my shoulder...

Yes so so true !

At 51 I have reached a point in my life that I either need shoulder surgery so I can do more with my compound then just pull it back and let it go .

When I hold a 60 pound compound I can no longer hold it longer then a couple seconds without sharp pain !

So I either get it fixed or get a crossbow !

Not sure if years and years of shooting trap and skeet screwed it or something else . Oh well it is what it is :???:

Although I don't think the recoil did it as my off shoulder is the problem shoulder , not the one that would have sistained all the recoil over the years .

[TRG3]

6pt-sika...Concerning that crossbow...I've hunted with longbows, recurves, compounds, and now a crossbow. In my experience, for a good shooter, the crossbow is no more accurate out to 30 yards than a compound. Beyond 40 yards whether it's a compound or crossbow, a deer can react and the arrow hit other than the spot intended, so I limit my shots to 40 yards and under. I've used a crossbow for the past three years in Illinois and have taken several deer. The obvious advantage is that the bow is already cocked, meaning less movement before the shot. If your state allows you to utilize the crossbow based on medical or age reasons, then I'd suggest that you consider giving it a try. I have several compound-shooting friends that swore they would never use a crossbow...until they shot one. They now own and hunt with one since it just gives them another reason to head for the deer woods.

[6pt-sika]

6pt-sika...Concerning that crossbow...I've hunted with longbows, recurves, compounds, and now a crossbow. In my experience, for a good shooter, the crossbow is no more accurate out to 30 yards than a compound. Beyond 40 yards whether it's a compound or crossbow, a deer can react and the arrow hit other than the spot intended, so I limit my shots to 40 yards and under. I've used a crossbow for the past three years in Illinois and have taken several deer. The obvious advantage is that the bow is already cocked, meaning less movement before the shot. If your state allows you to utilize the crossbow based on medical or age reasons, then I'd suggest that you consider giving it a try. I have several compound-shooting friends that swore they would never use a crossbow...until they shot one. They now own and hunt with one since it just gives them another reason to head for the deer woods.

Anyone can use a crossbow now in Virginia or Maryland the two states I regularly hunt . But to be honest I would rather have a Hoyt compound then a darn crossbow ! The Hoyt's lighter and a darn sight quicker to reload . My self imposed hunting range is 30 yards be it a compound or cross bow .

Never did the recurve thing but I always wanted a couple nice handmade longbows to go with my split cane flyrods . Some things a person wants for nothing more then the snob appeal ! But then I like contemporary longrifle flintlocks as well and pretty much for the same reason LOL's !

There isn't much in the guns , hunting sporting category that I actually dislike !

[chrisw]

I love my crossbow! I have some spinal cord/brain birth defects that have gotten worse with age and actually have pretty much stopped hunting until I got a crossbow. Now I've taken deer and gators with my crossbow and love it! Even in states that only allow medical reasons, its easy and if you've gone to your doc about the shoulder I know they will sign the form! For me, the doc's orders are 10lbs but since I'm still strong with broad shoulders 20lbs is doable. I've got a great 10point with a crank and any deer within 30 yards is DOA. 30-50 yards is a maybe, depending on the shot.


now my only limitation is finding places to hunt that I can get too AND more importantly get the deer out of! I sure wish there was some decent hunt clubs I could find around SWVA.

[6pt-sika]

About the only time I'll archery hunt anymore are the VA and MD seasons . And I can use a CB in either state without a medical . I would however like to go to Japan for Sika deer sometime before I die and they do not allow CB's for anyone regardless . Vertical bows or spears only . At first I thought the spear thing was a joke but I was incorrect in thinking that !

[chrisw]

LMAO. I do use a spear gator hunting but for deer? Maybe if they are tame?

[6pt-sika]

LMAO. I do use a spear gator hunting but for deer? Maybe if they are tame?

I doubt seriousely if anyone ried doing that . But thats the regs the Japaneese Government saw fit to implement for foriegn hunters .

I talked with the American guy running the show a few times and he claimed they shot some of the deer from ground blinds at less then 5 yards .

If you wanna be technical the Japanese Government calls this "Damage Control" rather then hunting . But based on what the guy told me it's like we would hunt around here for the most part .

[TRG3]

6pt-sika...Should you decide on getting a longbow, I'm very well pleased with the Firefly that is made by Mr. Jim Jones in Michigan. It not only doesn't stack but there's no handshock, two features that are desired in any bow but hard to find in a longbow. Mine is 53#@28" and is a joy to shoot. You might take a look at the TradGang website or google "Firefly bows". I have friends who make longbows who have not been able to accomplish what Jim puts in his bows.

[longbow]

Another archery discussion on the Cast Boolit site! This is getting to be pretty common now.

Yeah, I have been shooting a bow since I was 9 and am now 59. I have made my own wood bows for the last 15 or so years and really like them. they certainly aren't fancy but they shoot and I can hold my own in competition. My current favourite bow is a yew bow built from local wood left over after yew bark harvesters cleaned out all our yew trees under 4" diameter. It is billets split from the same short leftover piece of yew about 4" long. Finished length is 64" nock to nock and 57 lbs. It is a bit kinky but shoots very well.

I am not much of a big game hunter for the most part but I have shot many grouse with it and taken a few trophies at shoots as well. If I do my part it the bow will do its part even against laminated longbows and recurves.

If you have the inclination to have a wood bow, they aren't that hard to make. Lots of good info on the internet and some good books available too like "The Traditional Bowyer's Bibles" (4 volumes). I really enjoy mine and feel like a kid with a stick and string when I shoot (every time I shoot in fact!). Always amazed what a simple bent stick is capable of.

Longbow

[6pt-sika]

6pt-sika...Should you decide on getting a longbow, I'm very well pleased with the Firefly that is made by Mr. Jim Jones in Michigan.

If I can't hold a compound with my shoulders as they are now , there's certainly no reason to buy a longbow .

[longbow]

Yeah, bad shoulders a common problem. I have bad bursitis in both shoulders but fortunately I can still raise, draw and hold bows of 50 to 60 lbs. with no problems. I have trouble raising my arms past shoulder level but shoulder level is all it takes! Several friends are not so lucky and have either had to give up archery or go to relatively light compounds to reduce holding weight.

I have little interest in shooting compounds so if I eventually can't draw my wood bows I would likely go to a crossbow... or maybe just shoot more cast boolits!

[oldandslow]

Chris, 2/5/13

Back to slug shooting- I started reloading 12 gauge slugs for my Remington 870 Marine Magnum smoothbore a couple of years ago. In my smoothbore barrel I tried a bunch of precast sabot slugs from BPI (Ballistic Products Inc.) including their Foster slug, shuttlecock slug and Gualandi fullbore slug with a pre-attached wad. I also bought the Lyman 525 grain slug mold and cast and shot a bunch of these. I read all I could on how to make the loads accurate both here and at Shotgunworld.com. Despite multiple experiments with different wads, powders, cutting the petals partway off, filling the cavities with epoxy, different shot cards, etc. I just could not get the groupings I wanted at 25 or 50 yards (they were usually 4-6" at 25 yards with a Leupold VX-3 2-8 power scope off a bench). The only exception was the Gualandi which gave me 2-3" groups at 50 yards consistently. The down side is that they were about $0.80 each by the time they shipped to me and they had to come all the way from Italy.

The answer came by way of AccurateMolds full-bore 770 grain slug and changing to a rifled barrel. Group size runs at 1" at 25 yards which is plenty good enough for my pig hunting at close range. I slugged my 12 gauge barrel and ordered a slug 0.001" oversize similar to what is done with a pistol barrel mold. Velocity is at the high 900's feet/second and recoil is moderate. If I loaded it any faster the recoil became too severe for my 56 year old shoulders. Blue Dot was the powder that worked best for me. Load data and advice was graciously provided by many here and at SGW including Longbow, Turbo1889, Tommygirl and others who's names I have unfortunately forgotten. Take a look at the www.accuratemolds.com site and punch in their 12 gauge slug molds to get an idea if one might work for you. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow

[7br]

I will disagree that it is a waste of time and money to try and roll your own slugs. Try the Lee 7/8 oz key slug and some hs-6. I am shooting a rifled 870 and 3 inches at 75 yards with iron sights is not that difficult. At $22, the mold perfoms way above what you pay for it.

[longbow]

As mentioned, I have tried a variety home cast of hollow base slugs from my smoothbores and for the most part, they have not been as accurate as plain old round balls. Skirt distortion seems to be the culprit. I did oven heat treat some thick skirted hollow base slugs from a home made mould and they shot into about 4" at 50 yards but the round ball loads will do that.

I got some good groups from Gualandi DGS slugs running about the same as oldandslow got at 50 yards but even then I had some oval holes and a keyholes. Again recovered slug showed quite bad distortion at the base of the slug where the attached wad rammed into it.

I decided solid slugs or round balls were a better way to go after that. Good round ball loads give dependable and decent accuracy to 50 yards.

So far with limited shooting done I am finding the Lee Drive Key slug at 1 oz. is grouping a little larger than typical round ball groups at 50 yards. I have more work to do with it though.

Loads were moderate and slugs recovered from snow do not show skirt distortion I have found in most other hollow base slugs.

If I was shooting a rifled gun, I would follow oldandslow's lead and go with an Accurate Molds solid slug. Tom does nice work.

Longbow

[6pt-sika]

I will disagree that it is a waste of time and money to try and roll your own slugs. Try the Lee 7/8 oz key slug and some hs-6. I am shooting a rifled 870 and 3 inches at 75 yards with iron sights is not that difficult. At $22, the mold perfoms way above what you pay for it.

I'm glad you had success !

And it's a free country so certainly you can disagree with me .