What`s it mean when ?

[burch]

I`m working on getting my pre 64 Winny up and running. I`ve done some test firing and noticed the primers backing out a tad. Anyone know what that means ?

[williamwaco]

It usually means the firing pin is driving the case forward in the chamber. The case then expands and grips the walls of the chamber and the gas pressure pushes the primer back against the face of the bolt.

The good news is that the pressure is light, else the base of the case would be pushed back too.

The bad news is that the cartridge does not fit the chamber. You have probably set the shoulder back during the sizing operation.

Do a search here for "headspace".


.

[runfiverun]

i dunno what a winny is.
my horse makes a sound like that when i walk out to the pasture.
it's usually an indication of low pressure,the primer backs out when fired.
the case stretching to fill the chamber re-seats the primer against the bolt face.

[leadman]

Either you sized the case down or the firing pin pushed it forward in the chamber and the load did not have enough pressure to back it up to the boltface.
You can either increase the load, fireform with cream of wheat, or create a second shoulder on the neck to hold the case back and fire it with a midrange load.

[burch]

i dunno what a winny is.
my horse makes a sound like that when i walk out to the pasture.
it's usually an indication of low pressure,the primer backs out when fired.
the case stretching to fill the chamber re-seats the primer against the bolt face.

A Winny is a Winchester. Mine is a 1940 model 94 in 32 winchester special

[Gtek]

Howdy Burch, from way down here in Eau Gallie. You need to give us more info, reloads with Boolits we assume? Factory ammo? A headspace check would make me feel better. You can do with shim stock / foil tape if no shiny ones available, SAAMI is .063"+.010". You will usually find .057" to .061" on most cases. You can adjust long with Boolits for just a good kiss rising pressure just a pinch and probably reducing if not stopping. I think you stepped into a group of stealthy lever guy's, and I think a lot of them are of the MO's type and I think one of the Godfathers just pulled your lever! Gtek.

[runfiverun]

just put some powder in there, the 32 win will shoot cast as fast or faster than jaxketed bullets.
there's sizing and then there is sizing.
threat the back half like a 30-30 and the front half like an 8mm mauser.
get the shoulder up close to the end of the chamber where it goes.
i know the round headspaces off the rim but you have to help it out.

[burch]

After I get my bolt back from being rebuilt i`ll return to this post and give ya`ll an update. I`m going to re-set my dies, polish my sizing die, and re-cast some bullets. I could`ve over looked something so i`m going back to the drawing board for a closer inspection of everything.

[Blammer]

shoot some factory in it for testing then see how it does.

if no factory shoot some jwords in it at regular velocity then see how it does.

I know that my 35 whelen does the same thing with weak loads.

[burch]

shoot some factory in it for testing then see how it does.

if no factory shoot some jwords in it at regular velocity then see how it does.

I know that my 35 whelen does the same thing with weak loads.

When I first got it I tried some Hornady`s and had a few miss fires. That`s when I decided to just have the bolt re-built.

[burch]

shoot some factory in it for testing then see how it does.

if no factory shoot some jwords in it at regular velocity then see how it does.

I know that my 35 whelen does the same thing with weak loads.

What are " jwords " ?

[fouronesix]

"jwords", "jbullets", etc. mean jacketed bullets.

That backed-out primer is a sign of a little extra headspace. With a rimmed cartridge the backed-out primer shows the extra headspace is in the firearm (action). With a rimless cartridge the backed-out primer shows the headspace is either in the firearm (action) or the cartridge shoulder/chamber fit... or both.

[45-70 Chevroner]

My question is, does it hurt anything if this problem is caused by low pressure cast loads? I have a 1925 25" octogon barreled 94 and it does the same thing. The only thing I shoot in it is low pressure cast loads, at least most of the time.

[captaint]

burch - I don't mean to sound snippy here, but just what is a "bolt rebuilding" about. I mean, about the only thing you could replace is the firing pin spring. That sure isn't "rebuilding" anything. If you do actually have headspace problems (which I doubt) your issues are beyond "rebuilding". For you to have excess headspace, which is WAY unlikely, the bolt lugs would have set back. So unlikely, it's not worth discussing. Just don't want to see a guy get ripped by a "smith". That's all..... Mike

[fouronesix]

Almost all cartridges/guns will show a little primer back-out with light loads- since headspace is almost never zero. Also, since the 32 Win has some shoulder, you can back the resizing die out a little so as not to re-set the shoulder with each resizing but just enough so the loaded round chambers easily. That way the headspace control will be helped by the shoulder.

[stubert]

Sounds like low pressure to me also, I shoot .433 balls from a 44 spec. with just a pinch of powder and they would back out also.

[runfiverun]

i generally ramp things up with new brass and use a full on jaxketed load.
i know the brass is fireformed to the chamber this way.

if something on a levergun needs fixing in the way of headspace and such something has been stretched.
the 94 locks up at the rear of the reciever and most likely the fram has been stretched.
a 92 and 94's bolts are super simple.
extracter on top, ejector on the bottom, and a firing pin in the middle.
everything is held together with pins,and the springs are captured.

[plainsman456]

He must have been shooting Federal.
When shooting some in my 7X57 because the brass does not have the shoulders formed right,they always back out the primers.

If it was me i would up the charge a little at a time.

[MtGun44]

Primer protrusion just means the load is low enough pressure not to push
the case head back against the breech face and reseat the primer. ALL
loads push out the primer, but low pressure ones do not reseat.

The amount of protrusion is your headspace. Since the .32 Spl is rimmed, it
has nothing to due with your die setup. If it were a rimless case, you can
set the dies to NOT push the shoulder back and minimize the headspace in
your ammo/gun combo. With rimmed, the rim sets the fit, so you have
what you have. Not a problem at all, really.

Bill

[fouronesix]

If the primer back-out is too much that indicates too much headspace. But it's a sliding scale between too much and OK "normal". Most all lever guns have this as part of the deal and even some cartridge designs are more prone to loss of headspace control. Firing such with normal or factory pressure loads doesn't simply reseat the primer! It stretches the case just in front of the web. IF there is a lot of headspace (or loss of headspace control), case life is much reduced. IF there is near zero headspace then case life is much greater. Somewhere in between these extremes is where most normal leverguns fall. Since the 32 has at least some shoulder I use it to counter some of the extra headspace the action already may have by not setting back the shoulder until required for chambering ease. I load this way for all my lever guns with shouldered and rimmed cases. Or you can crank the sizing die all the way down and proceed. Makes no difference to me. In the end, the only thing the sizing die needs to do is size down the case dimensions enough for smooth chambering.

[burch]

O.K. so maybe some of you guys that have been loading for 32 w.s. can help me out if in fact I do have an issue, and according to a few I may not. I`ll list my load data and maybe I can see if i`m doing anything wrong there or not.
- Casings: W-W
- Primers: Winchester Lg.
- Powder: IMR 3031 28grns.
- Bullet: RCBS 32-170FN cast out of w-w`s. After lubed and gas checked their 176gr.
My bore measures 321.5 and i`m sizing them .323 i`m seating the bullet in the top of the crimp groove. I`m not having any issues with cycling the action.

[Larry Gibson]

Most "winney's have generous headspace and not really much to worry about. I know the "word" is to always FL size for lever actions but with low pressure loads in the 30-30 it is not necessary. NSing works very well on the 30-30 and the 32 SPL with all but the top end loads. Then with cases that do need sizing do not set the die so it bumps against the shell holder as that is going to set the shoulder back too far. The results of which are backed out primers and probably short case life and a lot of trimming (unless you have wisely got the RCBS X-Die for FL sizing). Adjust the die until the bolt just easily closes on the sized case. This will then have sized the case so it is actually "headspacing" on the shoulder instead of the rim. Primers won't back out so much and the case life will be much longer. However, for most cast bullet loads NSing is still the prefered choice.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

everything sounds good actually.
like larry say's i think it's just a bit of oversizing the case.

most 32 wins i see have a little primer back out.
they are pretty low pressure because most loads are taken from the 30-30.
couple that with with the undersized cases.

take a fired case and measure it around the base of the case.
up along the body to the shoulder and the length to the shoulder.
then remeasure these same places after resizing.

[leadman]

Copy that on the undersized cases. About every case I check lately is undersized somewheres. The 30-30 brass seems to have a too thin of a rim on them, my 7mm RM is way short when new from the base to the shoulder. Also the belts are too thin.
I fireform with Cream of Wheat and then size just enough to allow the action to close easily.I use a collet die, neck size die, or a full length die backed off.
Doesn't matter if it rimed, rimless, or belted, all end up headspaced off the shoulder if it has one or the case taper like the 375 Win.
Shooting the Encores, Contenders, and rolling blocks gives one a decent education in controlling headspace since the guns are not all made as they should be.