Anything going on with 327 Fed Mag?

[Green Frog]

I haven't heard anything lately from anyone (pro or con) concerning the aforementioned "super" 32 revolver. I just got news the rebored barrel had made it to my gunsmith to build my S&W stainless "K32" and am starting to think about reloads. Anybody got any comments or input? Inquiring minds... :coffeecom

Froggie

PS I went on and bought 1000 StarLine cases for it and have bullets cast from 95-120 grains as well as a supply of primers and powder (Bullseye and Titegroup among others) so I'm ready to load some mild and some hot loads.

[gunfan]

Well, the people at buffalo Bore have a nice set (pair) of loads for it. It seems as if a decent four-inch barreled revolver would make for one #ell of a trail gun. Handling a total of four different cartridges would seem to be a great asset. While not much, the .32 S&W will rout garden pests without much noise. The .32 S&W Long is a real tack driver, a wonderful "pelt" cartridge at short ranges. The .32 H&R Magnum is fine for larger pests that must be taken at longer ranges, and with a 7 1/2" barrel the .327 Federal can (at 25-50 yards) even be used to harvest larger rodents (smaller deer.)

If you want the longer barreled revolver, you need to find a S&W Model 16-4 (chambered for the .32 H&R Magnum) with a 6" barrel can have it's cylinder easily relieved to accept the .327 Federal Magnum cartridge. This modification has been performed more than once with no adverse effects. I have long wanted to have a revolver like that.

Good luck in your quest.

Scott

[376Steyr]

I just checked the Ruger website. Looks like they are down to a single model (GP100) in 327 Mag. The 48 oz. Blackhawk version has apparently bitten the dust. Unexpectedly!:shock:

[MT Gianni]

I am happy with the 4" Charter Arms Target Patriot 327 fed with factory ammo. My ss 32 outshoots it with cast. I need to do some work with it but right now it is on the back burner.

[Green Frog]

I didn't make myself clear. I am already in the process of building a 4" stainless version of the K32. It is based on an early Model 66 (no dash) with a custom rebored 4" barrel and custom rebored cylinder (both from Model 617 parts.) That part is already in the works. I also have purchased one of the Ruger stainless 8 shot Blackhawk SA revolvers in 327 FM. I should have the S&W within a month or so and already have the Ruger... as well as all of the components mentioned. Now I'm looking for some folks' experiences with loading this rather new cartridge for revolvers purpose built to take advantage of its potential. I will look for the Buffalo Bore loadings. gunfan... are they factory loads or recipes to use their bullets? BTW Scott, you left out the semi-rimmed 32 ACP which I will also be able to fire in this gun, should I want to. ;)

So once again, does anyone have any tried-and-true loadings to suggest for the 327 FM? Inquiring minds like mine want to know! :coffeecom

Froggie

[2 dogs]

Look in the active group buys section for the 32 Sixgun Sledgehammer. Over on Singleactions.com you will find quite a few 32/327 Federal threads as well.

[gunfan]

Some of the favored American Eagle 100-grain loads perform well. Buffalo Bore ammunition is high performance fodder.

Scott

[MT Gianni]

With initial findings my gun likes a gc over pb. The mold that best fits is a 115 gr NOE I have run with H110 and WC820. I have a bbl restriction that will need some action.

[ebner glocken]

I have one of the two inch taurus revolvers and like it quite a lot. With the 100 gr american eagle loads it's quite punchy. The 85 american eagle is ok. I have dies for it, just never shot out enough brass to make a run of ammo for it. I wish S&W made a nice little 6 shot K frame with an adjustable sight in 4 or 6". This is a round that had promise they just marketed it totally wrong. It's better served in a revolver as I just described or a light little lever action carbine with about a 16" bbl. That would have sold.

Ebner

[pdawg_shooter]

Nice rabbit gun......

[gunfan]

I have one of the two inch taurus revolvers and like it quite a lot. With the 100 gr american eagle loads it's quite punchy. The 85 american eagle is ok. I have dies for it, just never shot out enough brass to make a run of ammo for it. I wish S&W made a nice little 6 shot K frame with an adjustable sight in 4 or 6". This is a round that had promise they just marketed it totally wrong. It's better served in a revolver as I just described or a light little lever action carbine with about a 16" bbl. That would have sold.

Ebner

Absolutely! The .327 Federal Magnum is best served in either a longer barreled revolver or an 18" carbine. The 100-115 and 120-grain bullets make this .32 a real contender.

Yes, pdawg shooter, the .327 can be "watered down" to act as a rabbit shooter. The .32 S&W Long serves well in this respect.

Scott

[pdawg_shooter]

The .327 FM is an answer looking for a question.

[gunfan]

The .327 FM is an answer looking for a question.

The .327 Fed Mag supersedes the old .32-20 in both operating pressures and case strength, while manintainong the inherent accuracy of the .32. When loaded to it's maximum pressure levels, the Fed Mag handily outruns the .32-20. With the capability of handling the shorter cartridges (.32 S&W, .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R Magnum.) You can't do this with the .32-20. I believe that the round answers more than one question.

This was a query you simply didn't wish to ask, while others have. If you don't want it, fine. Others desired a small-bore cartridge with impressive versatility. It isn't for everyone.

Scott

[Bullshop]

I am open to the idea of the cartridge but I have not yet seen it offered in a gun that I like. I would like it (if I could afford one ) in something dimentioned like the Colt Police Posative Special I have in 32/20.
Everything I have seen is either too small or too big to be a good general purpose sporting arm which is where my interest would be.
For that purpose the Ruger single six 32 mag is about perfect in size and weight. Also personally I dont care for the idea of adding chambers to a cylinder/frame that is over size for the cartridge. 7, 8, and 9 shot revolvers just grate me the wrong way. Not bad mouthing it just saying me personaly I dont like it.
Give me a revolver (prefer single action) in which the cylinder and frame are dimentioned properly to hold 6 rounds of the 32 Fed cartridge with nothing extra in size or weight other than choice of barrel length and I would be quite satisfied with the whole package of gun and cartridge.
If there is such a thing being made I have not yet seen it but I would like to.

[gunfan]

I am open to the idea of the cartridge but I have not yet seen it offered in a gun that I like. I would like it (if I could afford one ) in something dimentioned like the Colt Police Posative Special I have in 32/20.
Everything I have seen is either too small or too big to be a good general purpose sporting arm which is where my interest would be.
For that purpose the Ruger single six 32 mag is about perfect in size and weight. Also personally I dont care for the idea of adding chambers to a cylinder/frame that is over size for the cartridge. 7, 8, and 9 shot revolvers just grate me the wrong way. Not bad mouthing it just saying me personaly I dont like it.
Give me a revolver (prefer single action) in which the cylinder and frame are dimentioned properly to hold 6 rounds of the 32 Fed cartridge with nothing extra in size or weight other than choice of barrel length and I would be quite satisfied with the whole package of gun and cartridge.
If there is such a thing being made I have not yet seen it but I would like to.

I understand. I'm not one for 6,7,8, or 9 rounds in a cylinder (.22 long rifle cartridges not withstanding.) I would like a 6-round "K"-frame Smith & Wesson Model 16-4 with the cylinder relieved to accept the .327. After that, I'd like to have the action slicked-up and have the entire pistol finished in electroless nickel-plating. I really want two of them. One with a 4" barrel and one with a 6" tube.

Scott

[olafhardt]

I like to play with 32's. While searching for a good stout second hand 32 I found a Tauras 327 brand new for about $275. Heck, I had already been beat out of an older S&W for 280. So far it has been OK. I doubt I'll ever load it to high pressure.

[Bardo]

I had a ruger blackhawk. I had Tom at accurate make me a mold. My goal was to have a long range revolver with low recoil (just for hitting steel plates). That boolit was very accurate with Lil gun. I also tried the Noe 118 314640 and the Noe 313316 GC. but the mold Tom made smoked them all. I could only push it to 1150 before I got leading. But for a 150gr boolit that wasnt to bad. Then in the process I found the little 32 H&R in the ruger single six and I sold the blackhawk and all my 327 stuff. The 327 was a very loud gun for when I am just hiking in the hills and dont have hearing protection. I would love to see someone come out with a leveraction 327.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-150B-D.png

Bardo

[MT Gianni]

The .327 FM is an answer looking for a question.

The question is what can outperforms a 38 special and can also be shot for less cost than a 22 lr with cast handloads

[I'll Make Mine]

You can shoot a .357 Magnum for that kind of cost (when you don't have to buy primers at panic buying "gouge me again" prices), but it's ballistically about like a .22 Magnum (.360 round ball or 000 buck shot over small load of fast powder). Heck, I can shoot my Mosin Nagant at about that cost level, too (sized 00 buck or .315 round ball, or 90 grain SWC, mouse fart powder load -- brass lasts forever with loads like that), yet surplus ammo will just about drop a Jeep.

[gunfan]

MT Gianni: Don't worry, some people need to ridicule what they don't like, or understand. IMHO, if they don't like or want it, BUZZ OFF! :P

Scott

[jmort]

Buffalo Bore 327 FEDERAL Ammo - 130 gr. Hard Cast Keith (1300fps)

Too bad it seems like Ruger is dropping the .327 Blackhawk for now

[williamwaco]

I have the Ruger.

I bought it because after several years of looking, I realized I was never going to be able to replace my old K-32.

I LOVE this .327.

See more here:

http://reloadingtips.com/reviews/ruger-sp100-327mag.htm

[Thundarstick]

The GP-100 is my usual cary gun, not to mention shooting IDPA competition with it. I usually keep it stoked with 118gr HP when carying and use a cast 100gr (12bh) over enough H110 to just kiss the base of the seated bullet and touched off by a CCI small pistol magnum primer. It puts the steel down with just as much authourity as the 9mms and doesn't lead. I have a few 22lr revolvers and 5 in 327mag. I think it is a fine, fine cartrige, easy to load for, accurate and flat shooting. I would jump on a SSM Bisley in 327 and I think S&W could make a 7 shot K frame with no problem. I also dream of a light carbine, especially a lever action!

[rintinglen]

The .327 is great idea that hit about 60 years too late.
These days, autos with cartridges that begin with a number higher than 3 are popular, Revolvers, saving perhaps 38 snubbies and big magnums, are not. Certainly, a 32 shooting a 115 grain boolit at 1300+ fps is a good idea--Winchester and Marlin Sold a barn full of 32-20's back in the day. But other than pride of owning something unique, the 327 gives you nothing that you can't get from a .357, and ammunition and component availability greatly favor the bigger brother.
All that said, a 6 shot 327 Ruger with a 4.2 inch barrel on the SP 101 frame like their 22 would find a nice home in my safe. That would be a wonderful kit gun.

[FergusonTO35]

I love .32 revolvers in all varieties. I would happily buy a .327 revolver but have zero interest in the .327 cartridge itself. I would feed it a steady diet of .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R Magnum. I really, really like the .32 H&R and hope that Ruger brings back the Single Six and some sort of double action so chambered. Now, a .327 lever action rifle would be a must buy for me!!

[gunfan]

The .327 is great idea that hit about 60 years too late.
These days, autos with cartridges that begin with a number higher than 3 are popular, Revolvers, saving perhaps 38 snubbies and big magnums, are not. Certainly, a 32 shooting a 115 grain boolit at 1300+ fps is a good idea--Winchester and Marlin Sold a barn full of 32-20's back in the day. But other than pride of owning something unique, the 327 gives you nothing that you can't get from a .357, and ammunition and component availability greatly favor the bigger brother.
All that said, a 6 shot 327 Ruger with a 4.2 inch barrel on the SP 101 frame like their 22 would find a nice home in my safe. That would be a wonderful kit gun.

The bullets that can be used in the .32-20 can be used in the .327 Federal. I wouldn't recommend exceeding a 125-grain bullet without the appropriately tested propellants and pressure limits. The beauty of the .327 is that it will chamber the shorter cartridges and accept pressures that would destroy the .32-20 brass. The .327 should have been introduced in 1984 instead of the .32 H&R Magnum, but it is here now. If the industry were smart, it would continue to embrace the little "hot-rock" small-bore cartridge.

Scott

[Green Frog]

Buffalo Bore 327 FEDERAL Ammo - 130 gr. Hard Cast Keith (1300fps)

Too bad it seems like Ruger is dropping the .327 Blackhawk for now

What a surprise. Ruger releases what could be a very popular niche gun and keeps it a freaking secret! :-? No wonder they had slow sales with it... the average shooter didn't even know it was available. I found out about it about a week after they came out and ordered one within a week of my discovery. :coffeecom Yes, I would have ordered it even sooner if I had known about it sooner!

I have to admit that the 8 shot cylinder is a little off-putting for a traditionalist. :roll: Building the gun on a smaller platform would have perhaps made more sense. Those mid-frame flat tops they were making could have been adapted to a six shot cylinder. That gun in a convertible with 32-20 auxiliary cylinder would be a popular seller, IMHO. I could really get into that package! :Bright idea:

Froggie

[jrayborn]

I have the 6-shot SP101 and the 7-shot GP100. The SP101 has showed me how a revolver can shoot. It makes me believe SOME of what I read on this sight about how far people can shoot small groups with a revolver. It honestly shoots like a laserbeam. The GP shoots even better. The last two revolvers I will ever sell are these two. I also shoot the 118 grain NOE gas-check over 2400 and it roars. Good-God I love this cartridge in these revolvers. Cold-dead-hands does not properly describe how I feel about them.

[gunfan]

Could you imagine a "K" framed 8 3/8" barreled S&W Model 16 in .327 Federal Magnum? Yeah, baby! 8-) :mrgreen:

Scott

[NoZombies]

I'll be honest, as much as I love .32's, and I find myself truly afflicted, I just haven't bitten the bullet on a .327 yet. I may well regret that at some point in the future, but for the time being, I'm really pretty happy with my .32 longs and .32 magnums.

The thing that has prevented me from having a .327 is the platforms it;s been offered in; Pocket revolvers and ungainly giants. Make a Single Six in 327, and I'll buy, Make a Model 16 in .327, and I'll buy, Heck, bring back the 4" 631 with adjustable sights, and I'll buy. I just don't feel the need for a ported 2" eardrum rupturing machine, or a 6 pound super revolver.

With that said, I suppose I should check out the small frame freedom arms revolver in said caliber... Hmmm....

[Green Frog]

Could you imagine a "K" framed 8 3/8" barreled S&W Model 16 in .327 Federal Magnum? Yeah, baby! 8-) :mrgreen:

Scott

Gunfan, I think you have participated on other threads where I have discussed "Project 616 - The revolver S&W should have built but didn't." I probably could have gotten a Model 617 barrel in 8 3/8" length instead of the 4" I used and could have had it rebored for the same price, so the gun you want is available if you have it built for yourself. I say it is available, since I have been waiting 6 months for mine and probably will wait a couple more, but you can get one if you are persistent (and patient.)

Froggie

[ktw]

Those mid-frame flat tops they were making could have been adapted to a six shot cylinder. That gun in a convertible with 32-20 auxiliary cylinder would be a popular seller, IMHO. I could really get into that package! :Bright idea:

Freedom Arms Model 97. SAA sized frame. Available in 6 shot 327. Available in a range of barrel lengths from 4 1/4" to 10". Spare cylinders available in both 32 H&R Mag and 32-20.

-ktw

[Green Frog]

Wow... $2000 is "available" but it's not "attainable" for the likes of this poor old retired guy! :-? I'm guessing that if the same gun were being mass produced by Ruger (rather than custom by FA) it would be reachable by the masses for substantially less than a grand. :2_high5: They would surely sell enough to make it worth their while, but maybe not enough for the bean counters. :not listening:

Froggie

[rintinglen]

They have been available for years. The one I just bought has sat on the shelf of my LGS for at least two years. Not many buy them. Most people want guns they can get ammo for. Not one of the 4 closest gun shops to me has a single box of .327 ammo in it. The 32 caliber is a niche, and a rather small one at that. I have four 32s, and I like them, but most folks would pass them by and purchase a 9 or a 40 or a 380. As a caliber, in 1953, a 327 would have been a barn burner. Today it's simply ho-hum. That anybody chambers it in a gun is a triumph of hope over experience. It's a shame, but other guns do what the 327 does, and they are more established abd consequently more available. "New and improved" may sell more soap but not many guns apparently.

[odis]

Wow... $2000 is "available" but it's not "attainable" for the likes of this poor old retired guy! :-? I'm guessing that if the same gun were being mass produced by Ruger (rather than custom by FA) it would be reachable by the masses for substantially less than a grand. :2_high5: They would surely sell enough to make it worth their while, but maybe not enough for the bean counters. :not listening:

FroggieYou and me both, a factory single six in 327 or a factory five shot bearcat in 32L and both would be in my safe, but the cost to have them made up or a FA is to rich for my blood.

[gunfan]

Let's face it, a modified S&W 16-4 is a sweet number! I have seen what one can do, and it is goooooood! You can take lots of game with it, and as a house gun a 115-grain full-house load will perform quite closely to the .357 S&W Magnum.

That's what the shooting community could really appreciate.

Scott

[Green Frog]

They have been available for years. The one I just bought has sat on the shelf of my LGS for at least two years. Not many buy them. Most people want guns they can get ammo for. Not one of the 4 closest gun shops to me has a single box of .327 ammo in it. The 32 caliber is a niche, and a rather small one at that. I have four 32s, and I like them, but most folks would pass them by and purchase a 9 or a 40 or a 380. As a caliber, in 1953, a 327 would have been a barn burner. Today it's simply ho-hum. That anybody chambers it in a gun is a triumph of hope over experience. It's a shame, but other guns do what the 327 does, and they are more established abd consequently more available. "New and improved" may sell more soap but not many guns apparently.

Which model are you referring to? If it's the large frame Blackhawk (stainless, 8 shot, etc, etc) as I said, I bought one of those as soon as I got through the secrecy... but that's too big, and the Single Six frame is too small, so like Goldilocks, I'm looking for one that's "just right!"

What we have is a sort of chicken and egg situation in reverse... if no ammo is available, the guns won't sell, and if the guns don't sell, the ammo makers don't make ammo available. A vicious circle! :roll:

However, those of us who have played with the various 32s for years (or decades) and stuck with them tend to be a fairly opinionated lot prone to following different drums, going to extremes and even doing a little quixotic windmill tilting. My personal windmill is Project 616, but if there had been a logical way to get where I wanted to go with a Ruger Single Action, I would probably be spending more time on the Ruger Forum and less on the S&W. Regardless, I am now a man on a mission, and for a little over 7 months now I have been waiting and actively working toward the completion of the project, and hopefully, in the not-too-distant future, I will... :Fire:

Froggie

[olafhardt]

Whenever these classic cartridges are lengthened to make magnums, the frame and cylinder must also be lenghtened to accomodate. Once you could buy small framed guns made of steel with silm barrels, no underlugs and short cylinders that were light and handy. I like these old guns. The 32 S&W long can readily be loaded to become a reasonable defence round. I think that it is only a minority of shooters who want a loud, heavy gun and they don't want 32's. I can't accept as fact that the 327 is equivalent to the 357. I love 32's, but a 357 is what I keep handy.

[gunfan]

I think that it is only a minority of shooters who want a loud, heavy gun and they don't want 32's. I can't accept as fact that the 327 is equivalent to the 357. I love 32's, but a 357 is what I keep handy.

Either the 4" or 6" .327 may come across as a bit "blasty" but let me tell you, while the .327 Federal Magnum may not be the true ballistic equal of the .357 S&W Magnum; a 115-125 grain JHP in a .327 Fed. Mag. will shoot as accurately, and penetrating more deeply than the .357. That, my friend will likely produce incapacitation, and/or death just as rapidly. The sectional density that provides both the depth of penetration and reliable expansion is what will accomplish the task at hand.

The .357 S&W Magnum in these pistols produce more violent recoil and take longer to return to the point of aim on target. This requires more practice and discipline to master.

Believe it.

Scott

[30calflash]

I tried to look quick, couldn't find ammo/chamber specs for the 327 FM or 30 carbine. I think the 30 carbine blackhawk would be a suitable candidate for conversion. The SS 32 mag might have a cylinder too short, not sure though. Either a rechambering or a new cylinder would/should work.

The Blackhawk would be a big sxgun, but it would take the pressure well and last a while.

[gunfan]

I tried to look quick, couldn't find ammo/chamber specs for the 327 FM or 30 carbine. I think the 30 carbine blackhawk would be a suitable candidate for conversion. The SS 32 mag might have a cylinder too short, not sure though. Either a rechambering or a new cylinder would/should work.

The Blackhawk would be a big sxgun, but it would take the pressure well and last a while.

I have seen an early conversion for the .327 Fed. Mag from the .32 H&R Magnum. It can take the pressure. You can
convert the .308" dia. Carbine cylinder to .312" for the revolver and have it indexed for that particular pistol. this definitely would work as well.

Scott

[MT Gianni]

I tried to look quick, couldn't find ammo/chamber specs for the 327 FM or 30 carbine. I think the 30 carbine blackhawk would be a suitable candidate for conversion. The SS 32 mag might have a cylinder too short, not sure though. Either a rechambering or a new cylinder would/should work.

The Blackhawk would be a big sxgun, but it would take the pressure well and last a while.

Hamilton Bowen was converting single sixes to 327 Fed. IIRC, he made a new cylinder and shortened the bbl 0.010" or 0.1". Price ran around $400.

[olafhardt]

Gunfan, the 327 just does't have suficent reputation to match the 357 and it probably never will. Many calibers are demonstrativly superior to the 327. The reaspn people don't buy 327's is because they don't want them. Why buy a big heavy mouse gun when you can get a handy kit gun or a decent 357?

[gunfan]

Gunfan, the 327 just does't have suficent reputation to match the 357 and it probably never will. Many calibers are demonstrativly superior to the 327. The reaspn people don't buy 327's is because they don't want them. Why buy a big heavy mouse gun when you can get a handy kit gun or a decent 357?

This doesn't negate the versatility of a high performance .32. All one must do to understand this, is to look at the popularity of the .32-20 during the 20th century. When the .32 WCF was perceived as lacking in performance, it was rebranded as the .32-20 and pushed to the limits of it's brass. To date, even the older, weaker .32-20 still enjoys a reputation for stellar field performance.

The .327 handily outperforms the .32-20, so the .327 Fed. Mag is a perfectly natural outgrowth of the .32 S&W , .32 S&W Long .32 H&R Magnum. It is nothing that a thinking shooter couldn't conclude.

Scott

[Rafe Covington]

I have a Ruger BH in 327 Fed, also having a custon Contender 21 inch rifle barrel made. The Ruger is extremely accurate, personally I consider the 327 an excellent cartridge. JMHO

Rafe

[gunfan]

Please expound upon your experiences with the cartridge. Inquiring minds want to know! ;)

Scott

[Thundarstick]

I have 5 327 mag revolvers and love them all, in a different way. In my eyes the cherry of the bunch is the S&W 632, when it's on my belt it just dissipears, with the GP100 my next pick (matter of fact I carry that one the most). The GP with the Hogue grip is bulky for a ccw, so I put an Eagle secret service on it and it now just blends in. I shoot the GP100 327 in IDPA shoots localy where we have several steel dropper and popper targets and it puts them down with every bit the athourity of any of the 40s and 9s that are out there. With 7 shots and 5Star speed loaders it gets the job done for me! I would like to throw in here the number of people who will cary a 380, but bad mouth the 327, give me a break! They are loud, but no where near as loud as a full up 357, don't beleave me, shoot with some on the fireing line.

The 327 does a fantastic job of what it was designed to do, allow an extra round in a revolver of the same size, with less recoil, and better balistics than most of these revolvers, but just less than the strongest of them! Where the boat was missed was not putting it into a properly sized sporting revolver! Don't get me wrong, the Blackhawk is a hoot to shoot with it's fist full of bullets, but it's a 44mag size gun! Ruger, build a new SSM and they WILL sell, the 4inch SP101 would have made much more since in 6-327, than 5-357. S&W how about a 7 shot K frame, or a 5 shot I frame? To me the 327 is realy what the 38+P+ wishes it was!

another Scott

[gunfan]

I have 5 327 mag revolvers and love them all, in a different way. In my eyes the cherry of the bunch is the S&W 632, when it's on my belt it just dissipears, with the GP100 my next pick (matter of fact I carry that one the most). The GP with the Hogue grip is bulky for a ccw, so I put an Eagle secret service on it and it now just blends in. I shoot the GP100 327 in IDPA shoots localy where we have several steel dropper and popper targets and it puts them down with every bit the athourity of any of the 40s and 9s that are out there. With 7 shots and 5Star speed loaders it gets the job done for me! I would like to throw in here the number of people who will cary a 380, but bad mouth the 327, give me a break! They are loud, but no where near as loud as a full up 357, don't beleave me, shoot with some on the fireing line.

The 327 does a fantastic job of what it was designed to do, allow an extra round in a revolver of the same size, with less recoil, and better balistics than most of these revolvers, but just less than the strongest of them! Where the boat was missed was not putting it into a properly sized sporting revolver! Don't get me wrong, the Blackhawk is a hoot to shoot with it's fist full of bullets, but it's a 44mag size gun! Ruger, build a new SSM and they WILL sell, the 4inch SP101 would have made much more since in 6-327, than 5-357. S&W how about a 7 shot K frame, or a 5 shot I frame? To me the 327 is realy what the 38+P+ wishes it was!

another Scott

The people that love the .380 seem to forget that the shorter 9mm won't penetrate well without hard cast or hardball ammunition. If you don't push that round fast enough, you can wind up irritating the object of the exercise! On the other hand, a heavy .327 Federal Magnum will usually stop an aggressive individual in short order.

If I could "wave a magic wand" S&W would be producing a titanium framed, 4" barreled .327 Federal Magnum revolver (hold the lock, please.) Six rounds from this "bad boy" would, more than likely, settle anyone's hash. Look Ma, the altercation is over... you'd better call the Coroner! :holysheep

Say, pal... if we get two Scotts together, perhaps we can sell cough drops!

[MT Gianni]

I wonder about taking a DW revolver in 357 and finding a 22 cyl that would be reamed to 327. You could turn a piece of 303 bbl down to match the od of your 357 bbl and cut threads and a forcing cone. Not only would you have a switch bbl gun but a switch caliber. [at least until you put the 357 cylinder in with the 32 bbl].

[gunfan]

I wonder about taking a DW revolver in 357 and finding a 22 cyl that would be reamed to 327. You could turn a piece of 303 bbl down to match the od of your 357 bbl and cut threads and a forcing cone. Not only would you have a switch bbl gun but a switch caliber. [at least until you put the 357 cylinder in with the 32 bbl].

Oooooh! Gunfan like, Gunfan liiiike!

Yesss!

Scott

[dtknowles]

I sort of already have done this, I have a 32-20 cylinder for my Dan Wesson model 15 and 8 inch 308 barrel. Shoots great, I don't think I would have any problem matching .327 ballistics. Right now the gun is wearing its 4 inch .357 barrel and small grip in a belt holster in case it is needed but the 32-20 is fun to shoot and shoots smaller groups so it gets some range time.

Tim

[MT Gianni]

Tim, did you get the factory 32-20 cyliinder when it was available or have one recut?

[gunfan]

I sort of already have done this, I have a 32-20 cylinder for my Dan Wesson model 15 and 8 inch 308 barrel. Shoots great, I don't think I would have any problem matching .327 ballistics. Right now the gun is wearing its 4 inch .357 barrel and small grip in a belt holster in case it is needed but the 32-20 is fun to shoot and shoots smaller groups so it gets some range time.

Tim

Tim: While I admire your effort to keep the .32-20 alive, it seems to me that the cartridge is being pushed a bit beyond it's design perameters. The pressure limits of the .327 are quite a bit higher and the brass is far stronger than the tapered case will safely allow. All "fire walling" the .32-20 really accomplishes is erosion and shortened brass life.

Scott

[dtknowles]

I got a factory cylinder, don't remember exactly where, e-bay, gunbroker or some forum.
Tim, did you get the factory 32-20 cyliinder when it was available or have one recut?

[dtknowles]

I think you may in some way be right. I have not loaded enough ammo for this gun to have started playing around with hot rod loads, I was just indicating that if I wanted to I thought I could match .327 balistics. I still think I could, the larger case volume would let me get there with lower pressures but I don't think the brass would have any problems with .327 pressure except maybe like you mentioned brass life. Thin walled tapered cases do not last as long anyway. I have not pushed it because when I want more performance I can just switch back to .357. I am curious about the erosion issue you mentioned.

Tim


Tim: While I admire your effort to keep the .32-20 alive, it seems to me that the cartridge is being pushed a bit beyond it's design perameters. The pressure limits of the .327 are quite a bit higher and the brass is far stronger than the tapered case will safely allow. All "fire walling" the .32-20 really accomplishes is erosion and shortened brass life.

Scott

[gunfan]

I think you may in some way be right. I have not loaded enough ammo for this gun to have started playing around with hot rod loads, I was just indicating that if I wanted to I thought I could match .327 balistics. I still think I could, the larger case volume would let me get there with lower pressures but I don't think the brass would have any problems with .327 pressure except maybe like you mentioned brass life. Thin walled tapered cases do not last as long anyway. I have not pushed it because when I want more performance I can just switch back to .357. I am curious about the erosion issue you mentioned.

Tim

Tim: Most of the .32-20 revolvers (Rugers notwithstanding) were built with the cartridge's original pressure limits in mind. This lead me to believe that it would be reasonable to expect erosion of the forcing cone to take place when the cartridge is "fire walled."

Since the .327 Federal Magnum cartridge, and the firearms chambered for the cartridge are rated for 45,000 PSI. The possibility of top strap/forcing cone erosion for these revolvers wil be less likely than those of the .32-20.

Agreed?

[FN in MT]

I just picked up several S&W handguns to sell to settle the Estate of an old friend. His died 18 years back , I RIG greased them all up, stashed them in boxes or cases and there they sat until now.

In the group is a 6" M-16-4. about 98%. I'm torn on keeping it....but after shooting some of the 85 gr Federal factory loads.....I ask myself WHY?

I'm sorry but I'm one of those guys who can't rationalize buying loading dies and setting up for another cartridge when ANY of my .38 Specials are FAR easier to support than this odd ball.

FN in MT

[OuchHot!]

FN, from my point of view you are correct BUT this ain't about being rational. I honestly think that the hotted up 32's do very little that a more common caliber doesn't do better. At high velocity the 32's have gawd awful muzzle blast that more than compensates for any reduced recoil. But I am not being rational with my 32's. I love 'em. Light loads, heavy loads, in-between loads. I love em all and cannot explain it. The M16's that I have are the only revolvers that I have that consistently outshoot my K38's and 8" Target Python (chambered in .38s). I can say that my lead budget is somewhat better for the .32's and less powder consummed, but at the end of the day I just like them.

[Green Frog]

THE END IS IN SIGHT! (and that's a good thing.) I just got off the phone with Andy Horvath and he says he thinks he will have my Project 616 ready for me to pick up on the way to the OGCA show in a couple of weeks. Current plan is to drive up Thursday, 3/21 and pick it up in person from Andy at his shop, then drive on over to Dale53's place for some serious range testing. :Fire: Then I'll have to shine it up a little and take it on up to OGCA on Saturday morning to have it fondled by the adoring masses. :mrgreen:

It took a whole lot longer than I thought it would, but I truly "love it when a plan comes together!" Now I can get back to the serious business of reloading 32s in all lengths as well as casting a variety of bullet weights for same. Life is good. :drinks:

Froggie

[gunfan]

FN, from my point of view you are correct BUT this ain't about being rational. I honestly think that the hotted up 32's do very little that a more common caliber doesn't do better. At high velocity the 32's have gawd awful muzzle blast that more than compensates for any reduced recoil. But I am not being rational with my 32's. I love 'em. Light loads, heavy loads, in-between loads. I love em all and cannot explain it. The M16's that I have are the only revolvers that I have that consistently outshoot my K38's and 8" Target Python (chambered in .38s). I can say that my lead budget is somewhat better for the .32's and less powder consummed, but at the end of the day I just like them.

I'm inclined to agree. The .32's are a love that you either have, or haven't. The reason I am so in love with the bore, is their inherent accuracy. I know, for a fact, that the .32 S&W Long will kill a man and very quickly! (My father killed a Japanese soldier/sniper on an island during WWII with five quick shots 98-grain full wadcutters from a little folding-trigger Italian snub-nosed revolver.) Granted, it was at a range of about four feet, but he placed them in the soldier's chest as quick as you please! The bandy-legged little man fell backwards and died on the spot His mistake was trying to check out hes kill after missing my father from the tree top. Father took his 7.7 Arisaka rifle, along with his own Springfield 1903-A3 and took off through the tall grass, carefully avoiding the trails.

Control is not an issue with the longer-barreled .32's and the .327 Federal Magnum, while a bit "blasty" has the power to not only outperform the .32-20, but have a longer case/bore life to boot. Modern steel and hardening have a lot to do with this. If you have too much of a problem with the blast of the .327, why do you have less of a problem with the .357 S&W Magnum that has even more muzzle/cylinder gap blast than with the smaller bore?

Perhaps you should reconsider your hobby... There's always knitting! ;)

Scott

[gunfan]

Here's Jeff Quinn's perspective of five years ago that adequately sums up the utilitarian aspects of the .327 Federal Magnum.



The New .327 Federal Magnum in Ruger’s SP101 Compact Six-Shot Revolver



by Jeff Quinn

photography by Jeff Quinn & Boge Quinn

December 2nd, 2007






In 1984, Harrington & Richardson Firearms got together with the Federal Cartridge Company and introduced a dandy little revolver cartridge called the .32 H&R Magnum. They lengthened the .32 S&W Long cartridge and loaded it to higher pressures to give a lot more power to the little .32 revolver. The factory load was advertised to propel an eighty-five grain jacketed hollowpoint bullet to around 1100 feet-per-second (fps). There was also a ninety-five grain lead bullet load at an advertised 1030 fps. This new ammo was a significant improvement over the shorter .32 S&W and .32 S&W Long cartridges, and the new H&R revolvers could also fire the other two cartridges in addition to the .32 H&R Magnum. While never loaded to true magnum pressures like the .357, .41, and .44 Magnum cartridges, the little .32 Magnum was a step in the right direction.

About three weeks ago, Federal and Ruger introduced a new .32 caliber cartridge that promises to be all that the .32 H&R should have been, had it been loaded to magnum pressures. The problem was with the early H&R revolvers. They just would not take real magnum pressures, so the .32 H&R Magnum cartridge, while still a relatively hot .32, was never loaded to its potential. Ruger jumped on board with the .32 H&R cartridge back in 1985, and handloaders have been hot-rodding the .32 H&R in Ruger revolvers ever since, loading the cartridge to its potential using powders like Hodgdon’s Lil’Gun, WW296 and H110, among others.

To keep the new .327 Federal Magnum out of the weaker H&R and other lightweight revolvers, and to increase its powder capacity slightly, Federal lengthened the .32 H&R case by .125 inch, for a .327 Federal Magnum case length of 1.20 inches. The first handgun on the market chambered for the .327 Federal Magnum is the tough, reliable little Ruger SP101. The little SP101, as stated above, has been chambered for the .32 H&R cartridge for over twenty years. It is also chambered for the .357 Magnum cartridge in a five-shot version, but the .327 Federal Magnum version still uses the six-shot cylinder of the .32 H&R SP101. Ruger and Federal are marketing the new gun/cartridge combo towards the self defense handgun buyer at this time, but I see plenty of potential for this new cartridge as a hunting round as well.

Immediately after the new cartridge was announced, the shooting forums were filled with shooters, and some who pretend to be shooters, denouncing the new cartridge as everything from being too loud to it being almost useless; all this from people who had never seen the gun nor the cartridge, much less having ever fired one. Some of us, including myself, were almost ecstatic hearing the news of the little .327 Federal Magnum. Those whom I know personally, like my friends Terry Murbach, Al Anderson, and Fermin Garza, who got excited about the new cartridge are actually shooters. These men shoot more ammunition in one year than most shooters will ever see in their lifetimes. All three of these gentlemen, while owning and shooting many big bore revolvers, are also great fans of the little .32 H&R cartridge, and immediately recognized the potential for the new .327 Federal Magnum. These three friends are scattered geographically around the United States, but we all know each other through our love of firearms, and our inclusion in that brotherhood known as "The Shootists". I mentioned these men here because they are true experts on guns, and revolvers in particular, but also would consider themselves as students of firearms, always willing to learn and experience new advancements in cartridge design. I contrast this with the pseudo experts who sit readily by their respective keyboards anxiously awaiting the opportunity to knock any new gun or cartridge that is introduced.

Having stated the above, the question is bound to be asked; "What is the .327 Federal Magnum good for?" That is always a fair question, even if it is grammatically incorrect. The simple answer is that it can do anything and everything that the .32 H&R cartridge can do, but do it better. It has more pressure and more case capacity, resulting in more bullet speed. Lots more bullet speed. More velocity makes it hit harder and penetrate deeper, with the right bullet. The .327 Federal Magnum will probably supplant the .32 H&R in every area except for the game of Cowboy Action Shooting, where light bullets and low velocities are preferred. However, Cowboy Action Shooting is only a game. The .327 Federal Magnum is made for more serious applications. It offers more power than the .32 H&R, with less recoil and muzzle blast than the .357 Magnum. In the SP101, you get six shots of .327 Federal as opposed to five shots of .357 magnum, but the main attraction, for defensive purposes, is that the .327 promises true magnum penetration without the recoil of the larger magnums.

Some "experts" claim that the new cartridge is not needed, as we already have the .30 Carbine and .32 WCF (.32-20) cartridges. First, the .30 carbine is a good cartridge, but it has no rim, is slightly tapered, and would require moon clips for reliable, quick extraction in a double action revolver. While the case capacity of the new .327 Federal Magnum and the .32-20 are close to the same, loading the .32-20 to the higher pressures required to achieve the velocities desired from a three inch barrel would destroy many of the old guns that are chambered for the cartridge. The .32-20 is also tapered, being primarily a rifle cartridge. Lengthening the .32 H&R into the brand new .327 Federal Magnum was the logical choice.

For a defensive handgun, I always lean towards penetration. I am asked everyday to recommend a defensive cartridge to those who are needing a handgun for protection. If a person can easily handle a small .357 magnum revolver, that is a good choice. However, the question of recoil often enters into the choice of cartridge. While in a service sized revolver the .357 is easily controlled, in a smaller package it can be a handful. Many times, I recommend a .22 Magnum for those who, for whatever reason, cannot handle or desire a hard-kicking gun. The .22 Magnum penetrates well, and getting the bullet to the vitals as deeply as possible damages more nerves, organs, and blood vessels. A bullet that does not penetrate does not tear up as much flesh. The new .327 Federal Magnum promises penetration, with less recoil than the .357 Magnum. That, along with good bullet design, should make for a dandy little defensive gun.

Regarding the Ruger SP101 revolver, it is probably the toughest, most reliable compact double action revolver on the planet. Weighing 28 ounces with a three and one-sixteenth inch barrel, the SP101can easily handle a steady diet of the high pressure .327 Federal Magnum. The weight is heavy enough to help tame the recoil, but light enough to carry easily and comfortably in a belt holster. I regard the SP101 as being a bit heavy for everyday carry in my pants pocket, but for wintertime carry in a coat pocket, or in a compact inside-the-pants holster, it rides easily. Made primarily of stainless steel, the SP101 is highly resistant to corrosion from sweat and damp weather, as any carry gun should be. The synthetic rubber grip is an excellent design, combining a compact size with a comfortable hold. Even in the .357 Magnum version of the SP101, the grip design is very comfortable to shoot. The barrel is of a heavy profile, and also aids in accurate rapid fire. The sights are pretty easy to see for a compact defensive weapon, and the rear is adjustable for windage correction. The trigger pull on the sample gun measured a smooth nine pounds, six ounces in double action mode, and a crisp three and three-quarters pounds in single action mode. The sample SP101 has a very good trigger action. The barrel/cylinder gap measures five one-thousandths (.005) of an inch. The cylinder bolt notches are offset, and not directly over the chambers, making for a stronger design.

Federal is offering three factory loads for the .327 Federal Magnum at this time; a Federal Premium 85 grain Hydra-Shok hollowpoint at 1330 fps, a Speer Gold Dot 115 grain hollowpoint at 1300 fps, and an American Eagle 100 grain jacketed soft point at 1400 fps. These velocities are advertised as being fired from the 3 1/16 inch barrel of the SP101. I only had the American Eagle load for testing. It chronographed at an average velocity of 1374.9 fps at eight feet from the muzzle, so corrected to muzzle velocity, the Federal specifications are dead on accurate.

With all of the negative comments early on from folks who have never fired the cartridge, there was a few things that I particularly wanted to test; those being muzzle blast, recoil, and penetration. I compared the muzzle blast of the .327 Federal Magnum to the .357 Magnum fired from guns with equal length barrels. I used for this test two Ruger SP101 revolvers, identical except for the cartridge. Holding the decibel meter beside the shooter’s head, the readings seem close, with the .327 registering 120db and the .357 reading 124db. However, decibel readings are logarithmic instead of linear, and 124db is noticeably louder than a reading of 120db. The .327 Federal Magnum does indeed have less muzzle blast than does the .357 Magnum, at least using factory loads with the same bullets weights.

Measuring recoil was more subjective, meaning I did not have any instrument to measure the recoil. However, recoil has to abide by the laws of physics, and can be calculated. Both guns having equal barrel lengths and almost identical weights, the .357 Magnum has more recoil using equal bullet weights because it will fire a 100 grain bullet about 200 fps faster than the .327 Federal Magnum. The difference in felt recoil to the hand is also noticeable. The fly in this ointment is that the .357 Magnum is hardly ever used with the light-for-caliber 100 grain bullet. To get better penetration, most shooters use at least a 125 grain bullet in the .357 Magnum, and recoil with that bullet is heavier than the recoil of the .327 Federal Magnum using the 100 grain bullet by a considerable margin. Keep in mind here that in all these tests, I am using factory ammunition. I will get into the handloading portion a bit later. To keep things fair and in perspective, only factory loads were used in the recoil and muzzle blast tests.

Next I moved on to testing the .327 Federal Magnum for penetration. As mentioned early on, I am a believer in penetration above all else when it comes to a cartridge that will be used against flesh. The .327 Federal Magnum is marketed as a defensive revolver, so it had to be tested in flesh. Since shooting live humans is illegal, immoral, and distasteful, and fresh cadavers are hard to come by out in the woods, I rode into town and bought a whole pork shoulder from the local butcher. I told him that I wanted the biggest one that he had. It weighed just over twenty-three pounds. Again, I used only the Federal factory American Eagle 100 grain load for this test. I had three reasons for this: I wanted to use a load that is available to anyone who buys one of these revolvers, most people will carry their defensive handgun loaded with factory ammunition, and meat is expensive. Taking aim from a distance of ten feet and aiming just inside the shoulder blade, I fired into the pork shoulder from the end. The American Eagle jacketed softpoint bullet fully penetrated the shoulder. I had hoped to be able to stop the bullet and see just far it would penetrate the meat, but sixteen inches was the entire length of the shoulder. The entrance and exit holes were very similar, with some cratering around the entrance. Opening up the shoulder, about seven inches in showed a large amount of cavitation and tissue damage. Seven inches is about optimum for this. Measure into your chest about seven inches and you will see that there is a lot of important stuff in that area. This damage started near the entrance, peaked at about seven inches, and then tapered into a channel of about one-half inch diameter through to the exit. I am very pleased at the performance of the penetration test.

Handloading for the new .327 Federal Magnum presented a slight challenge, as there is yet no load data available. I used a set of Lee carbide .32 H&R loading dies, and crimped separately from the seating operation. The dies worked perfectly for all bullet weights tried, and all loading was done on a Dillon 550B machine. I based my powder choices upon what I have learned from loading the .32 H&R Magnum to higher than factory pressures, taking advantage of the .327’s greater case capacity. My powders of choice were H110, Lil’Gun, Accurate Arms Number 9, H4227, Accurate 1680, and Winchester 571. I found H110, AA # 9, and to a limited extent Lil’Gun to work best in this particular revolver. With H4227 and AA1680, I could not achieve velocities equal to the factory load with a 100 grain bullet, so I gave up on those. I tried no light target loads in the .327, as we have the .32 S&W Long and the .32 H&R Magnum for target and mid-range loads, respectively. The .327 Federal Magnum is a true magnum, and that is the area in which I concentrated my efforts. Using Winchester 571 was a mistake. It is an excellent powder, but not at all suited for my purposes here. I screwed up, and found out that the Ruger SP101 is even a lot stronger than I had previously believed. Brass flows at 75,000 psi, and I exceeded that. I would have badly wrecked a lesser gun. The best powders for the .327 Federal Magnum proved to be H110 and AA # 9 for most all bullet weights, with Lil’Gun performing very well with the heavier bullets. I tested many different combinations using 60, 85, and 100 grain Hornady XTP hollowpoints, 113 grain cast lead gas check bullets from Cast Performance, 120 grain cast lead gas check bullets from Mt. Baldy Bullet Company, and a 135 grain cast lead bullet that was hand-cast by my friend John Killebrew. John designed this bullet with the help of Jimmy Pilcher, and it is a dandy bullet for loading the .32 H&R, .32-20, and now the .327 Federal Magnum cartridges. I was able to safely achieve velocities equaling the 100 grain factory load using AA # 9 and H110. AA # 9 also proved to be the powder of choice for the 60 and 85 grain XTP hollowpoint bullets. The little 60 grain XTP screamed out of the little Ruger at over 1740 fps. Moving to the lead bullets, AA # 9, H110, and Lil’Gun did very well. One thing that I really like about lead bullets is that they give greater velocity, as compared to jacketed bullets, with equal pressures. In the Ruger SP101, with its long cylinder, I was able to seat the 135 grain Killebrew bullets out longer than usual, crimping in the top lube groove instead of the crimp groove, taking advantage of the case capacity of the .327 Federal Magnum. I was able to push the 135 grain cast lead bullet to over 1250 fps with Lil’Gun. I achieved significantly higher velocities than that, but extraction became a bit sticky over 1300 fps, so I backed off. I used CCI magnum small pistol primers in all loads tested, but I am deliberately not listing powder charges, as none of this data has been pressure tested. By the time guns and ammunition hit the dealer’s shelves by January 2008, pressure tested load data from reputable sources should be available. I will add that handloaders can safely reach factory velocities with jacketed bullets, and exceed them with lead bullets. Later, I will get into another article dealing with handloading the .327 Federal Magnum for hunting, but as for right now, the Ruger SP101 is a dandy little defensive revolver, but its barrel length precludes it from being a legal hunting arm in most states.

For accuracy testing of the .327 SP101, I enlisted the help of my Ransom Master Rest, to eliminate as much human error as possible. I was pleasantly surprised at the accuracy of the little Ruger, with it being a brand new high pressure handgun cartridge. All ammo tested grouped into less than two and one-half inches, with both the best and worst groups fired shown in the pictures. Even the largest group at just over two inches is excellent accuracy, good enough for small game hunting, and more than enough accuracy for defense. While it is not absolutely necessary for a fighting handgun to display target grade accuracy, it is always nice when it does.

Over the course of the last three weeks, I have really given this SP101 a workout. I have loaded and fired the weapon hundreds of times, and never cleaned it. It is filthy, but it never misses a beat. Case life has been very good, despite my abuses. I began with one hundred factory cartridges, and used the first fifty of those that I emptied for all of the handloading. I only lost one case, and that was due to my negligence. All of the others have held up perfectly, and the primer pockets are still tight.

I carried the little Ruger around concealed in the very versatile Simply Rugged Pancake holster. This holster has detachable belt loops that allow it to be used as an inside-the-pants holster, and has slots to allow either strong side or crossdraw carry on the belt. Rob Leahy at Simply Rugged makes some fine holsters at very reasonable prices. As I have in the past, I highly recommend his work.

The little SP101 is a pleasure to shoot. The design of the synthetic rubber grip is hand filling, but compact. Recoil is very manageable, somewhat like a .38 Special, and muzzle blast is not bothersome. Penetration exceeded my expectations with the one factory load that I had available. I would suspect that the other two factory loads using the high performance hollowpoint bullets would penetrate less, and they just might be ideal for self defense. I won’t know for sure until I try them.

If you can’t tell already, I really like the new .327 Federal Magnum. It is everything that the older .32 H&R should have been. It operates at true magnum pressures to deliver true magnum performance. It has a good home in the Ruger SP101, but I also see a future for the cartridge in other handguns, and maybe even a carbine. As I type this, I know of at least one custom gunsmith that is making up a couple of single action revolvers for the .327 Federal Magnum. In the SP101, the .327 offers a good package for a self defense weapon, especially for those who want an effective weapon with good penetration and less recoil than the .357 Magnum, along with one more cartridge in the same sized handgun. A lot of shooters opt for a semi-auto defensive pistol, but for many, the rugged reliability and simplicity of a good revolver has its advantages., and it doesn’t leave empty brass laying around on the ground. In the world of rugged and reliable compact medium bore double action revolvers, the SP101 is king, and I will not hesitate to recommend the .327 SP101 to those needing an accurate defensive piece. It is a very versatile weapon, firing the .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, and the .32 H&R cartridges in addition to the .327 Federal Magnum cartridge.

[Green Frog]

Great article, gunfan! Did JQ ever write the follow-up article with those loads he mentioned after pressure testing? I'd sure love to get some of his powder charge data for AA #9 and H110. My lifetime supply of H108 is a near-perfect match for AA #9, so I could go right over to that with very little (if any) change in charge weight. Thanks for that great info.

Froggie

[gunfan]

Green Frog: I suggest that you perform a search on Gunblast, you should be able to find later articles on the .327 (Hamilton Bowen's revolvers, to be exact.)

Scott

[Thundarstick]

I have found that I can use as much H110 as I can comfortably fit under any chosen bullet to be a good match! I shoot this behind cast and jackted using CCI sp mag primers.

I just thought the 327 was loud, untill I shot it next to some little ol lady shooting 38+p from a LCR. Man that thing was LOUD!

[gunfan]

"For a defensive handgun, I always lean towards penetration. I am asked everyday to recommend a defensive cartridge to those who are needing a handgun for protection. If a person can easily handle a small .357 magnum revolver, that is a good choice. However, the question of recoil often enters into the choice of cartridge. While in a service sized revolver the .357 is easily controlled, in a smaller package it can be a handful. Many times, I recommend a .22 Magnum for those who, for whatever reason, cannot handle or desire a hard-kicking gun. The .22 Magnum penetrates well, and getting the bullet to the vitals as deeply as possible damages more nerves, organs, and blood vessels. A bullet that does not penetrate does not tear up as much flesh. The new .327 Federal Magnum promises penetration, with less recoil than the .357 Magnum. That, along with good bullet design, should make for a dandy little defensive gun."

This is what makes the hot, small bore, round so viable for personal defense and so much more!

Scott

[JHeath]

I just thought the 327 was loud, untill I shot it next to some little ol lady shooting 38+p from a LCR. Man that thing was LOUD!

I shot two rattlesnakes with a Colt DS .38 when I was 16 years old and it made my ears ring. I am 50 now and they are still ringing from that. Incurable tinnitus.

[rintinglen]

To me, the .327 is like the .41 Magnum: a fine cartridge, but one that doesn't pose any great advantages over existing calibers. It is a niche-round, and whether it becomes the next 9mm Federal, or lingers on as one of the "other" cartridges, only time will tell. I have a Blackhawk in 327, nice gun, but too heavy, it weighs a half ounce more than my .44 Special Flat Top. I'd buy a 6 shot SP-101 as a trail gun, if it came in a 4 inch with the round barrel, like the 22 version and not the underlugged one on the the .357. A 5 inch model 631 would be nice, but none of these are essential.
Right now, I have a Browning 53, a S&W pre-war 32-20, and a Colt Police Positive 32-20. I've plenty of 38's and .357's (and 44's, 45's and a few others as well). The .327 doesn't do anything that I can't do already with something I already have. Until it can launch a 180 grain FN, it won't out work my .357. I can't buy a carbine to match up with it. It won't out cheap my .38 and 32 plinkers. 2.7 BE and a 75 grain WC, anyone? It is not, or at least mine isn't, more accurate than my other guns of similar size and weight. All it does, is simply be different. Is that enough to justify buying one? Perhaps, but I strongly suspect that this caliber is moribund and not more than a passing fad.
Nothing wrong with being an individual, but nothing all superior about either.

[JHeath]

Re the above, the .327 is a good attempt at efficiency, maybe the best ever. It's trying to do the most with the least. Anything smaller is too small for universal handgun use. Anything bigger uses more powder and lead that is strictly necessary for a field/defensive pistol. Existing cartridges in its class (.32-20, .30C, 7.62x25) each have some shortcoming in the case design: thin necks, bottlenecks, rimless, only available in auto pistols that lose brass, etc.

The .327 is optimized for quantity reloading and cast, does everything an everyday pistol needs to do, and does it more economically than other cartridges. That's a lot of value.

[gunfan]

Right now, I have a Browning 53, a S&W pre-war 32-20, and a Colt Police Positive 32-20. I've plenty of 38's and .357's (and 44's, 45's and a few others as well). The .327 doesn't do anything that I can't do already with something I already have. Until it can launch a 180 grain FN, it won't out work my .357. I can't buy a carbine to match up with it. It won't out cheap my .38 and 32 plinkers. 2.7 BE and a 75 grain WC, anyone? It is not, or at least mine isn't, more accurate than my other guns of similar size and weight. All it does, is simply be different. Is that enough to justify buying one? Perhaps, but I strongly suspect that this caliber is moribund and not more than a passing fad.
Nothing wrong with being an individual, but nothing all superior about either.

The old .32-20 was fine. Time marches on. It's thin, weak brass and propensitiy for failing (read: being crushed) while reloading is legendary. The .32-20 has a pressure limit of 25,000 cup, while the pressure limit of the .327 Fed Mag is 45,000. With full-pressure loads, the .32-20 brass have a far shorter life than those of the .327 Fed.

When will you realize that the .32-20 has finally been outmoded? While not wildly popular, and not soggy with old west nostalgia, the .32-20 just can't keep up with a cartridge of more modern strength and limits.

It's time to come in for a "reality check."

Scott

[TheGrimReaper]

I must be weird I like the .327 Fed Mag, .41 Rem Mag, and 10MM Auto.

[Green Frog]

Update: I got up early yesterday and loaded my first batch of "performance" loads in 327 FM to be shot in my Ruger BH "Eight-shooter." I used bullets from my NOE 314008 mould that dropped out at about 125 grains and were sized to .313 and lubed with Carnauba Red. I had some once fired Federal brass, used my RCBS 32 H&R Mag dies and Winchester SP Standard primers. Since I had a new pound of Accurate #7 to try and they listed a relatively fast load for 115 grain bullets at acceptable pressures, I used a middle of the range charge from their table, knowing that the big old RBH would give me a margin of safety for strength. With 8.1 grains of #7 I got mild recoil, easy extraction and no sign of pressure in the primers, so I think I'm good to go.

I'm supposed to pick up my Project 616 custom S&W in about 2 weeks, so I'm hoping that I can find a good, high performance load to use in both it and the RBH, then I'll also keep some mild loads in 32 S&W Long for more casual plinking. for the nay-sayers who say the 327 FM has no reason to exist, isn't as good at doing this or that function as the 38/357, is too hard to find or expensive to buy, etc, I would say that I have now gotten over 1000 rounds of new or once fired brass and four different bullet moulds running from 90 to 125 grains as well as the loading dies I need for both bench and tong tool loading. Regardless of what others can or can't do, want to or don't want to do, can or can't afford, I'm good to go. High performance from modest amounts of powder and lead and the same primers are available to me, and a range of performance from 22 LR equivalents up to the old high speed 125 grain 357 Magnum loads that were held in such awe a few years ago are readily available. I'd say there's not much more for me to prove! :D

Froggie

[ebner glocken]

I must be weird I like the .327 Fed Mag, .41 Rem Mag, and 10MM Auto.

And to this I say "amen".
Funny thing in this strange time. The local shop here has plenty of 327, 10mm, and 41s but no 38, 9mm, or 357s to be had. Being an odd guy out isn't always a bad thing.

Ebner

[Larry Gibson]

I've had several .32 S&WLs and .32 H&Rs. I currently have a Ruger SS (original run) with 6" barrel and find it an excellent "trail" revolver. I find it too bad the companies went with the .327 as a "defensive round" and did not chamber it in a longer barrel revolver for more sporting use. A Ruger 101 with a 5 or 6" barrel would have been an excellent idea. Same with S&W; the small J frame .357 model in .327 with a 5 - 6" barrel would also have been ideal. My thought is that a larger frame detracts from the handiness and if I'm carrying a larger framed revolver I'll carry a larger caliber. The .32S&WL and .38 SPL are better suited as snubby "kit guns" with 3 -4" barrels. In 4" S&W .32 H&Rs the muzzle blast with slowburning, magnum level loads was atrocious enough let alone what a .327 would do. I've shot enough 32 WCF and 30 Carbine handguns to know what atrocious is BTW with slower burning magnum level loads. Just my opinion.

I've a nice S&W M31 in 32 S&WL, the .32 H&R SS and a 10" Contender barrel. Doubt I'll rush out to get a .327 because they don't make a factory revovler model to my liking that will be useful to me.

Larry Gibson

[gunfan]

I must be weird I like the .327 Fed Mag, .41 Rem Mag, and 10MM Auto.

That makes two of us! (Surely you must know the "secret handshake.") HA!

Scott

[olafhardt]

Every time you lengthen the cylinder you have to lengthen the frame. Compared to a 32 s&w 5shot 3" h&r my Taurus 327 2" is a monster. For reasons of economy manufacturers make one frame size, cylinder length and cylinder diameter for small frame revolvers. With I frame or police positive cylinders,pencil barrels and no silly underlugs we could have nice light 22's and 32's with 3 or 4 " barrels. Of course you could just buy old ones.

[rintinglen]

The old .32-20 was fine. Time marches on. It's thin, weak brass and propensitiy for failing (read: being crushed) while reloading is legendary. The .32-20 has a pressure limit of 25,000 cup, while the pressure limit of the .327 Fed Mag is 45,000. With full-pressure loads, the .32-20 brass have a far shorter life than those of the .327 Fed.

When will you realize that the .32-20 has finally been outmoded? While not wildly popular, and not soggy with old west nostalgia, the .32-20 just can't keep up with a cartridge of more modern strength and limits.

It's time to come in for a "reality check."

Scott

Reality: I have lots of 32-20 brass: I have exactly 2 boxes of .327. There are thousands and thousands of 32-20 and .357 carbines: there are no factory produced .327 carbines. .357 revolvers abound, 38 specials run in the millions: there are fewer than 50,000 .327's in existence. New does not mean necessary. The .327 is new. Enjoy it, if you have one. But it is not necessary. It does nothing that existing cartridges can't do.

[gunfan]

Reality: I have lots of 32-20 brass: I have exactly 2 boxes of .327. There are thousands and thousands of 32-20 and .357 carbines: there are no factory produced .327 carbines. .357 revolvers abound, 38 specials run in the millions: there are fewer than 50,000 .327's in existence. New does not mean necessary. The .327 is new. Enjoy it, if you have one. But it is not necessary. It does nothing that existing cartridges can't do.

We are impressed with your grasp of the mundane. The .32-20 has been superseded and you can't stop living in the past. The .327 Federal Magnum outclasses the .32-20 because it can use every other .32 caliber rimmed cartridge for use in the .312" diameter bullet class. The design of the .32-20 is more than 100 years old. There's only so much you can do to improve it. It's pressure limits are what they are. No modern double action revolvers are being chambered for the round.

the .38/.357 carbine revolver comparison is a false analogy. They are manufactured for two entirely different purposes. the .32 S&W/Long/H&R Magnum/.327 Fed. Mag. can perform at lower (and lighter) speeds without undue echoing within the cartridge casing, causing undue stress and detonation. The .32-20 can only be loaded so far down the pressure curve without having problems.

Scott

[rcted]

I bought myself the Taurus 2" in .327 Fed. Mag. 2 years ago for Christmas. I love it. I wanted to get factory load type performance, and even pulled a bullet to check out the powder charge. I couldn't recognize the powder, all I know is it had a 14g load. I have been trying to find load data for it, and came across an issue of a magazine that mentioned using True Blue. I had never loaded with TB, so I decided to try it. The charge weight mentioned ranged from 6.9 to 7.7 gs. I loaded 7.2g with a Hornady 100g XTP. with the recommended small rifle Federal primer. I was very happy with the results. I got an avg of 1172 fps. Not too shabby from a 2" barrel. The mistake I made with it was letting my wife shoot it. She decided she likes it more than the 38 spl I got her a while back. For her, I load 32 H&R cases with 3.2gs of Trail Boss and Berrys 71g jacketed round nose. She likes the fact that it doesn't beat her to death when she pulls the trigger. Now she wants to "share" it. Oh well, time to look for something new.

[Green Frog]

Aw c'mon, guys! Are we going to resort to logic here? What are we, a bunch of conservatives or something? I'm building this gun and doing all of this experimenting with the caliber because it's there! ... and nobody has done all of this stuff a dozen times already. :coffee:

Is the 32-20 a classic rifle round that can be used in proper pistols? Of course it is. This is not to step on the toes of the 32-20 lovers. I've had several and will likely have more. :guntootsmiley:

Is the 327 Fed Mag going to be superior to it in all respects? Probably, but that remains to be seen. :confused: Meanwhile, the reason I'm doing all of this is so that I can do something a little different. I posted this thread originally to find out where other folks were on this whole thing and to sort of stake out my corner of the topic. With four pages of responses, it looks like there is some interest here. :coffeecom To those who don't want to deal with yet another new 32 cal pistol cartridge, that's OK too, but I'll keep going, thank you very much. :mrgreen: After some attempts at "high performance" loading, I'm more convinced than ever that the round has promise, maybe not for the masses, but for me. :cool:

Froggie

PS I've mentioned this before, but the person who put me on the trail of a straight case, high performance replacement for the 32-20 was an old fellow by the name of Skelton. Maybe you've heard of him? He told me in one of his last public appearances that I should abandon my plans for the older cartridge, and think about the then-new 32 H&R Mag instead. Now that the 327 FM is available, I have every confidence that he would be making it talk and writing articles about it in Shooting Times if he were alive today. Just remember, "WWSD?" ;)

[gunfan]

The .32-20 is fine, but it has it's limitations. I prefer to take the modern approach. The .32-20 is a great cartridge, but it's versatility is limited by it's own design. It was conceived in the late 19th century. Time marches on.

The .32-20 Winchester, also known as the .32 WCF (Winchester center fire), was the first small-game lever-action cartridge that Winchester produced. It was initially introduced as a black-powder cartridge in 1882 for small-game, varmint hunting, and deer.

Scott

[Whit Spurzon]

I'm a recent convert to 32 caliber firearms and just this week added a 327 FM SP101 to the collection. It's been to the range exactly once, and it was impressive.

I started out using some 32 H&R loads that work well in my Single Six using the RCBS 32-98 SWC.

The often cited 3.2grain W231 (Hodgdon's starting load) gets 928 fps in the 5.5" Single Six and 815 fps in the 3" SP101. It shot well, POI = POA, a good start.

Alliant's MAX published load for Unique in the 32 H&R averaged 997 fps, was VERY accurate and prints about 1" above point of aim at 7 yards. The Single Six spits these out a 1190 fps and my Marlin 1894 get 1365 fps. This load works very well for me in the silhouette game using the Single Six. Last summer I had a great time ringing the 250 yard steel 21" x 30" with it.

Using Hodgdon's MAX published load 32 H&R for Lil'Gun averaged the SP101 averaged1145 fps and showed promising accuracy. The Single Six averages 1287fps and the 1894 averages 1724 fps with this load. Accuracy is good but the velocity is inconsistent with wide extreme spreads. That was true at the starting levels too.

I rarely buy or shoot factory ammo but ammo came with SP101 and I was curious to see what it would do.

The first was some Black Hills 85 gr JHP in 32 H&R Mag. It proved to be the most accurate of the day and averaged 939 fps. The group was about 2" High and a little right of point of aim.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k542/WhitSpurzon/011-1_zpsab17e55f.jpg
The first six went over the chronograph. This was the last four in the row shot at 7 yards.

The Georgia Arms 100gr JHP in 32 H&R averaged 1174 fps and was impressively accurate as well. The primers were pretty flat with this load.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k542/WhitSpurzon/009-1_zpsc0936c03.jpg

There was also a package of 32 S&W Long made by Georgia Arms. It too shot well averaging 878 fps. The primers were somewhat flattened in this load too. Not sure what powder they use but they do make cartridges that shoot at VERY consistent velocities and they are beautifully made, same OAL, nicely crimped.

The last load I tested was some American Eagle 327 Federal Magnum 85g JSP. They averaged 1323fps and were impressively accurate. The recoil was noticeable and the muzzle flash was visible in daylight. It was quite comfortable to shoot in the SP101. I found it interesting that the Single Six 32 H&R comes close to reaching that velocity with the Lil'Gun load with a heavier bullet - 100 gr as cast, 1287 fps.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k542/WhitSpurzon/008-1_zps1c230216.jpg

I like the 32's for all the reasons already stated. It's an overachiever, it's economical, it's accurate, even at long range (I've had my 32-20 Marlin 1894 out to 600 yards), it's mild to shoot, there are lots of great bullets in the caliber, the ammo is lightweight and compact so you can take a bunch of it along even when you're on foot.

Last year we did some ballistic testing on a fat steer that ran out of hay before we ran out of winter. We dispatched T-Bone Field-loafer with a 30-30 (cast 170 over Unique) and then before getting to work with the knives we set up a ballistic test hoping to catch the boolits after sending them through broadside. Amazingly we managed to catch all three calibers we tested - 45-70, 38-55 and 32-20.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k542/WhitSpurzon/Theset-up.jpg

The most surprising result was that the 32-20 out-penetrated the 38-55 and only came up a jug short of the 45-70
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k542/WhitSpurzon/32-20recovered.jpg

Video of the procedure here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b_h7ViNeJQ

A friend and member here loaned his 32-20 Marlin to a friend who used it to cleanly harvest a Whitetail Deer with the very sedate commercially available ammo.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k542/WhitSpurzon/1894cl32-20deer.jpg
Not ideal perhaps but most certainly capable in skilled hands.

[blackhawk4545]

I had a ruger blackhawk. I had Tom at accurate make me a mold. My goal was to have a long range revolver with low recoil (just for hitting steel plates). That boolit was very accurate with Lil gun. I also tried the Noe 118 314640 and the Noe 313316 GC. but the mold Tom made smoked them all. I could only push it to 1150 before I got leading. But for a 150gr boolit that wasnt to bad. Then in the process I found the little 32 H&R in the ruger single six and I sold the blackhawk and all my 327 stuff. The 327 was a very loud gun for when I am just hiking in the hills and dont have hearing protection. I would love to see someone come out with a leveraction 327.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-150B-D.png

Bardo



I would have to part with some $$ if a .327 lever-gun was ever produced!

[Rafe Covington]

I must be weird I like the .327 Fed Mag, .41 Rem Mag, and 10MM Auto.

Guess I am too, enjoy shooting all 3 calibers..

Rafe

[gunfan]

Understanding .327 Federal Mag. Ballistics
The .327 Federal Mag. is not a better approach to achieving terminal performance; it’s just a different approach.
By Richard Mann

From the moment Federal announced the .327 Federal Mag., Internet experts and gun goobers discounted it as another pip-squeak cartridge. Some folks just don’t understand external and terminal ballistics. The performance of any cartridge is dictated by physics, not by perception, prejudice or pontification. The laws of physics apply equally to all bullets while in flight, while penetrating a magnificent buck or while punching through a homicidal maniac.

Penetration is dictated by bullet weight, impact velocity and expanded diameter. All things equal; faster, heavier and smaller (in diameter) bullets penetrate deeper. Tissue destruction is more difficult to predict. Velocity, expansion and energy transfer are the best indicators. Generally, with bullets that penetrate to the same depth, those moving the fastest and exhibiting the largest expansion factor will damage the most tissue.

A .327 Federal Mag. bullet is initially 0.045” smaller in diameter than a 9 mm or .357 Mag. bullet—that’s about the thickness of a potato chip. The .327 Federal Mag. also uses lighter bullets launched at higher velocities. Bullets currently available in factory ammunition retain their weight well and expand at a higher ratio than many .357 Mag. projectiles. (This is the advanced bullet technology touted in advertising and often scoffed at by armchair ballisticians.) This means the .327 Federal Mag.’s projectiles will penetrate similar to 125- and 158-gr. hollow-point bullets from .357 Mag. loads. It also means they are very likely going to damage more tissue because of the higher impact velocities and greater expansion factor. The 115-gr. Gold Dot .312 bullet expands to more than twice its original diameter.

I tested the terminal ballistics of three .327 Federal factory loads and one handload in 10 percent ordnance gelatin, and when compared to hundreds of other handgun and rifle loads I’ve also tested, it’s clear the cartridge has the right stuff for coyotes, deer and even felonious fiends. High velocity combined with some of the best expansion factors you will find, matched with ruggedly constructed bullets are what makes this possible. With regard to external ballistics, all .327 Federal Mag. factory loads drop less than 6” at 100 yds. if sighted in at 25 yds.

One downside to the .327 Federal Mag. is that there are only three factory loads available. Another disadvantage is that most 0.312”-diameter component bullets won’t hold up to the high impact velocities. Currently, Federal and Speer are the only companies offering loaded ammunition, and Hornady’s 100-gr. XTP is about the only component bullet that will not disintegrate or over-expand when impacting at violent speeds. But that is changing. New for 2010, Federal has an 85-gr. jacketed soft point load and Speer a new 100-gr. Gold Dot load. Both the 100- and 115-gr. Gold Dot bullets should be available for handloaders very soon.

The .327 Federal Mag. is not a better approach to achieving terminal performance; it’s just a different approach. Some like big bullets that lumber along and some like medium size bullets that move a bit faster. If like me, you believe in the attributes of lighter bullets that radically expand and impact at lightning-like speeds, the .327 Federal Mag. might soon become your favorite revolver cartridge, too.





I hope that you enjoyed the article.

Scott

[Mohillbilly]

I like the .32 from the S&W short on up to the Win special. I have at least one of each . I like all the Rugers and Marlins . Wish there was a pump action that would take all the strait walled cases . I envision a brig brother Gallery gun . Fast would be its middle name ......

[gunfan]

Does anyone remember the IMI "Timberwolf?" It was manufactured in both .357 S&W Magnum and .44 Remington Magnum. This seems the perfect platform for the .327 Federal Magnum. There is plenty of strength to handle the cartridge and with the proper barrel, provide excellent accuracy.

What's not to like?

Scott

[harley45]

I'd buy a GP-100 if I could find one!

[gunfan]

I'd buy a GP-100 if I could find one!

How many were produced? There are probably a few floating around out there.

I hope that you can find one.

Scott

[poorman]

Henry is coming out with 4 models in .327 this month and Ruger makes the LCR, New Model Single-Six® : Single-Seven, and SP101
in .327

[james6600]

Had my Henry steel in 327 on order for 3 months now, it was supposed to be shipped in February then Henry pushed the shipping date to mid March. It will go good with my 5.5" Single Seven, I just hope the chamber cut is cast friendly. I'm also curious to see what that round can do in a long barrel and if it still makes your ears bleed.

[RJM52]

Guess I am too, enjoy shooting all 3 calibers..

Rafe

.327, .41 and 10mm...

Add the .38 Super to that list and they are my favorites also...

Bob

[Thundarstick]

Resurrection! I love it! :p

Since I posted February 2013 I've upped my collection! We spoke, Ruger listened, and I have added the 4 inch SP101 and two Single Sevens. I love shooting and loading for the 327 Federal as much today as then, and if Henry comes through I'll soon have a lever action carbine as well!

Long live the 327!

[John Allen]

I have a couple with a 7.5inch barrel and 32 shorts with just a smidge of powder they are great rodent control

[olafhardt]

I like to play with 32's. While searching for a good stout second hand 32 I found a Tauras 327 brand new for about $275. Heck, I had already been beat out of an older S&W for 280. So far it has been OK. I doubt I'll ever load it to high pressure.
OK I traded that gun off and have not missed it. The more I fool with my pre I frame Smith and Colt Police Positive, the more I Iike plain old 32 SW Long.