Secret to making better more accurate bullets!

[BT Sniper]

For those of you making bullets from annealed pieces of brass this will simply amaze you! For those of you making bullets from commercial jackets it will also have the potential at improving your bullet qualities.

I considered keeping this secret to myself and offering it as a kit for sale or somthing but with more and more customers with new BTSniper dies I think I will benifit plently just from sharing this valuable info with you all.

Among all the tips and techniques I have mentioned to allow one to make better bullets I found one tip that may be the most important of all, besides using some sort of auto ejection system with the point form die of course!

The Jackets! They need to be clean, I mean spotless and shinny before they enter the point form die! Simply tumbled in wallnut media is not good enough! We need to get that scale caused from the anneal process completely off the jacket and return a perfectly smooth surface back to the brass. One should never make bullets from jackets that still has the left over scale on it from teh anneal process, I have found it to cause problems and severily hinder the performance of a point form die.

For those of you annealing brass jackets there are many tips allready posted here but for best results carfully drop the hot brass stright from the heating source dirrectly into a bucket of hot water with a bit of citric acid in it, allow to dry, then tumble in wallnut media over night. That is step 1 and where most people stop, here is step 2!

This is what I do, it will allow you to make bullets that look better then factory, even from scrap brass that has been annealed, NO JOKE!

One only needs a brass tumbling machine, the same vibrating ones we use with the walnut media, or a fancy rock tumbler that is popular now days.

I use the standard vibrating brass tumbler and it works perfect! If you have a tumbler it is even better I'm sure.

Here is what you need.

2T (tablespoon full) Citric acid or lemishine
1-2lbs of small ceramic media, or the new fancy stainless steel media I'm sure would work too though I haven't used it.
1lb of copper plated BBs (optional but produces even better results and will turn everything a beatuiful copper color)
a squirt of hand dishwashing soap or machine dishwashing soap
and a splash of hot water

I combine it all in the bowl of the brass tumbler and let it go for at least 1 hour and no longer then 2 hours. This will produce magic before your very eyes! Any piece of brass you put in there will come out looking better then new! The brass does need to be free from grime, dirt, and lube. Attempting to clean really dirty brass that hasn't allready been tumbled in walnut media may cause problems.

If you are using the standard vibrating brass tumbler you will need the added weight in the jacket of the seated core or the brass simply "rides" on top of the media solution (for those of you with the fancy rock tumbler machines empty jackets will work just fine I'm sure). Simply seat a bunch of cores in your brass jacket, clean off the swage lube with a bit of mineral spirits or whatever. Combine the media and jackets together in a bucket and rinse them in hot water till everything is nice and hot. Drain as much water as possible without poring any media or jackets down the drain. A little water left over is OK and it usually the perfect amount for the process. Dump it all in the brass tumbler. Add two big spoon fulls of citric acid and a squirt of dish soap. Turn it on and let it go. Add hot water if needed, usually only a couple oz. is needed. You just want everything damp, not drowning. If water is splashing out of the bowl you have too much, poor a little out.

Do not over fill your brass cleaner, 1/3 full is plenty and can clean a lot of bullets/jackets. Manufacture instructions may state the machine is not suited for "wet" operations, I leave this decision up to you guys. I have used it in the above mentioned fashion now for problaby 50-100 batches worth with no issues. Yes things have the potential to get a little wet or sticky dirty but the results are worth it and I'll buy a new $50 brass tumbler any day vs. ruining an expensive point form die or getting bullets stuck in a point form die. Or the potential for better looking and more accurate bullets!

After at least one hour, not more then two, dump the contents into a bucket and rinse everything with hot water. Discard the waste water in approprate fashion. Separate all the brass jackets from the media and let the jackets dry thoroughly before swaging, to speed up drying place in 200 degree oven for 10-20 minutes.

Do not add any metal to the mix as it will get copper plated. You can actually turn the brass cases a perfect copper color that will match the look of factory bullets if you wish. I like to add copper plated BBs to my mix and it gives everything a beautiful copper color as well as adding a bit of weight to smooth the surface of the jackets. You can also add allready formed bullets to this mix and it will make them look better then facotry bullets! Even factory bullets will look better after this process.

Give it a try I am certain the results will amaze you. It will certainly aid in the process of making better bullets and greatly reduce any risk of getting bullets stuck in the point form dies.

I'll have some pics soon. You guys have allready seen the results with all the shinny bullets I post pictures of!

For those of you interested the media is cheaper in bulk of course, maybe we can get some sort of group buy on a larger amount then seperate in 1-2 lbs packets? The ceramic media can be found at any number of teh typical reloading supply chains.

This is what I ordered. I recal I ordered two but I have lost a lot of it over time and probalby only use the one amount now.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/513681/lyman-replacement-ceramic-media-for-moly-bullet-finishing-kit-175-lbs

Good Shooting and Swage On!

Brian

[BT Sniper]

One more tip! This process also smooths and rounds the edges of lead tip bullets perfectly!

When all you 22 cal customers get your core seat die this process will help you a LOT in forming perfect bullets with the potential for greater accuracy by ensuring you have perfectly clean jackets to form in the point form die!


Bullets formed with dirty scale left over from anneal process, BAD!
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060519.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/notchdie021.jpg






Bullets formed from clean jackets, GOOD!
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070386.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070903take2.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1080231tk2.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1080227tk2.jpg

[littlejack]

Thank you very much Brian. Those ARE some fine lookin bullets.
Jack

[Smokin7mm]

I run my RF jackets prior to derimming and again after annealing through my ultrasonic cleaner with citric acid solution and a drop or two of dawn. They come out really clean inside and out but do not have the shine yet. After I form the bullets complete if I want the "SHINE" I throw them in a vibratory tumbler with some very course corn cob media (pet store variaty) to polish them up to a nice shine. Same basic princal....... start with a clean product.

Bret

[BT Sniper]

One more thing, all this prep does no good if your hands are dirty when you are making the bullets. :)

[why.kyle]

I cant wait to get my dies (waiting patiently) and start making pretty projectiles like this!

[DukeInFlorida]

Brian shared this secret with me a while ago, and I have kept it mostly to myself.
I certainly haven't posted it in public places.

Now that it's out in the open, I can add the source for the ceramic polishing media:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Polishing-Finishing-Porcelain-Vibratory-Tumbler-Media-Pins-8mmX2-5-mm-5-lb-Japan-/00/$%28KGrHqIOKk!E3vDn7pk2BN-iscFH-Q~~3_12.JPG

Polishing-Finishing Porcelain Vibratory-Tumbler Media Pins 8mmX2.5 mm 5 lb Japan
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Polishing-Finishing-Porcelain-Vibratory-Tumbler-Media-Pins-8mmX2-5-mm-5-lb-Japan-/120896822825?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c26031e29

To be clear.............

I use SS polishing media for cleaning the raw .22 LR brass prior to derimming.
I use SS polishing media for cleaning derimmed brass after annealing. (goes faster and is aggressive on burned-on swage lube)
SS media is used in my rotary polishing tumbler:

http://youtu.be/5u4mSA6BbRc
I use ceramic media for polishing assembled/swaged bullets before assembling into loaded rounds.
The ceramic media is used in my Dillon media tumbler.

I use a Dillon media separator to separate brass/bullets from the media.

[Lizard333]

About time you shared this. I've been waiting a while. Glad to see you finally came out of the closet!

[BT Sniper]

:)

It works very well! I haven't tried the SS media but ceramic and copper BBs in the vibrating tumbler works well for me. Good looking set up Duke.

Next I hope to share a magic load for the 22 cal bullets, got a lot of loads to test out as soon as the wind stops blowing.

BT

[sargenv]

I hear the "more accurate" with clean bullets argument.. the question I have is "how much more accurate?". I ask this for the simple reason for those of us who don't fire a rifle past 200 yards at targets that are generally 8-10" at that distance (steel flashers used for action competition)..

I agree that Brian's method makes very pretty bullets and I am not trying to be a jerk. I just want to know how much it matters on something that will not be used much past 200 yards and will likely be used as "blasting" ammo for targets under 200 yards and sometimes as little as 50 yards. For those occasions, it seems silly to spend X more amount of time making them pretty when they are plenty accurate to use for the short ranges that they will likely be used at..

There are arguments about boat tail bullets not being of any use for under 300 yards.. the reason I want/use boat tail bullets is ease of seating them in a progressive press.. Since I almost never fire my 223/5.56 past 200 yards, the boat tail is a moot point flight wise.

I figure that the reason for making them look nice is also a matter of pride.. and that's cool.. I will probably go ahead and follow Brian's advice when I can get another unit to use for this procedure.. If it weren't for Brian making the suggestion that he could modifiy the CH tool dies, I'd never have jumped in with both feet way back when he started offering his wares. Thanks to him, people at my gun club still think the idea of turning spent brass into jacketed bullets is the ultimate in "recycling".

[garandsrus]

There are arguments about boat tail bullets not being of any use for under 300 yards.. the reason I want/use boat tail bullets is ease of seating them in a progressive press.. Since I almost never fire my 223/5.56 past 200 yards, the boat tail is a moot point flight wise.



Sarge,

If you belle the .223 brass just a little using the Lee Universal Die or some other die of your choice, the flat base bullets seat just as easily as a boat tail. If you are using a progressive press, you should be able to add the expander die to one of the stations prior to seating. I run my brass through the press twice, once to size, trim and clean off case lube, and then once to load. I added the expanding die in another station during the sizing pass. It works great...

BT - I use a rotary tumbler with stainless steel pins, lemishine, and Dawn. I tumbled the brass prior to de-rimming and then once again after point forming (which is also after annealing). The bullets came out looking great.

[fredj338]

I hear the "more accurate" with clean bullets argument.. the question I have is "how much more accurate?". I ask this for the simple reason for those of us who don't fire a rifle past 200 yards at targets that are generally 8-10" at that distance (steel flashers used for action competition)..

If your accuracy requirements are minimal, then it probably won't matter. I am in the sim position of a max range of 300y, but still, it's easy enough to make them look right, if they shoot better, so be it. I would also think the cleaner the jacket the less wear on the di, but maybe Brian can confirm that. The same reason I don't put dirty brass thru my reloading dies.
I agree, a BT bullet would be nice for seating on a prgressive press, but I can live w/ a bit slower process & flat base bullets. I would imagine the BT would also be a separate step like polishing the jacketes.

[fishin_bum]

As I read through the posts I see questions about, how much it matters how clean the jackets are for plinkers! I have noticed a big differance in how clean my gun is after shooting. It has to be easier on the rifling to have smooth shinny bullets verses dull abrasive ones.

[atom73]

I have a theory for why clean brass make more accurate boolits. If scale is allowed to remain on the brass the contact with the forming die is impeded by the additional layer. This will cause an irregular forming of the boolit on a microscopic scale. As the boolit rotates in the air irregularities in brass translates into wobble which translates into inaccuracies. A clean brass going into a die is uniformly formed because of uniform contact with the die of 100% of the brass not 98% brass and 2% scale (which are different harnesses). This makes sense to me based on my knowledge of metals, oxides, and surfaces.

[BT Sniper]

I simply found the clean jacket to form up easier in the point form die with more uniform results, while the scaled jacket would not form up all the way or even worse, get stuck in the die. More uniform bullets has to equal more accurate bullets.

BT

[Lizard333]

I have a theory for why clean brass make more accurate boolits. If scale is allowed to remain on the brass the contact with the forming die is impeded by the additional layer. This will cause an irregular forming of the boolit on a microscopic scale. As the boolit rotates in the air irregularities in brass translates into wobble which translates into inaccuracies. A clean brass going into a die is uniformly formed because of uniform contact with the die of 100% of the brass not 98% brass and 2% scale (which are different harnesses). This makes sense to me based on my knowledge of metals, oxides, and surfaces.

I would believe this, but we are taking our home swaged bullets, at 224 diameter, and cramming them through a barrel that has an initial diameter of 218, with 3 thousandth of inch of rifling on each side. Then smash it through that barrel at 2800 fps. Add in the twist of the rifling and its a pretty violent reaction. Pretty much think microscopic variations go out the window.

BT hit it in the nose. Clean products go in my dies, they are going to last longer, and produce great bullets.

[Utah Shooter]

If scale is allowed to remain on the brass the contact with the forming die is impeded by the additional layer. This will cause an irregular forming of the boolit on a microscopic scale.

So what about the lube that is on the projectile during forming? I got to say I do not completely agree with that statement.

While I want my projectiles to be as clean as they can be I have to admit they do not look near as good as BT's in cleanliness. I however cannot complain one bit about how they are starting to shoot for me.

I personally thing the BIGGEST part of using 22lr brass for bullet making is the strike on the base of the projectile.

[atom73]

I think BT and I ar saying the same thing but from diffent angles. Bottom line, clean equals uniformity in forming which equals accuracy. I think it does matter going out the barrel, if things aren't uniform as the boolit goes into the grooves they won't be uniform as they leave them. It's only a theory but I bank on it.

[fredj338]

If it didn't matter, then commercail manuf wouldn't bother to clean their bullets & save money. Of course it matters for best accuracy.

[Del-Ray]

Is the citric acid still in powder form when you add it?

If so, is it the standard 4T to one gallon of water mix?

[BT Sniper]

Yes powder. Lemi-shine or powdered citric acid is what you want.

I don't see anywhere mention of a gallon of water. Maybe that is what people are using in a rotery tumbler? and maybe Duke mentions it in his video?

In my vibrating brass tumbler I barly use any water at all. Just enough to make it damp.

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

I place the brass in my rotary tumbler tube, and then pour the stainless steel media in. Then I pour in the citric acid crystals, and a teaspoon of dish detergent. Finally, I fill the rest of the tube with hot water. It's more than a gallon.

When I do the ceramic media, in the vibratory tumbler, I use the same "damp only" method you use, Brian. But I only use that for the finished bullets.


Yes powder. Lemi-shine or powdered citric acid is what you want.

I don't see anywhere mention of a gallon of water. Maybe that is what people are using in a rotery tumbler? and maybe Duke mentions it in his video?

In my vibrating brass tumbler I barly use any water at all. Just enough to make it damp.

BT

[Del-Ray]

Sorry, I use the 4T to one gallon of hot water to just clean brass prior to vibrating clean.

Is this also like any other media, that you can use it multiple times before adding more acid or soap?

And should you clean the BBs and ceramic in fresh water and dry if you intend long storage before re-use?

Thanks again. I'm making more 40-60 brass while I wait fer my dies.

[RP]

Well again reading post here get me to thinking and tinkering. So I picked up a treadmill this past weekend after some tinkering its now a brass cleaner. I use most of the treadmill just added some rubber to drive roller for grip. I did some searches and saw a water bottle being used for a drum. So I grabbed the one I had tossed in some brass water lemi-shine a chunk of copper. My media that I was testing is used primers yep that is right used primers. Ran it for thirty mins and could see some good results. I had to put it on hold for awhile so I let it sit. So I got to thinking maybe its the plating on the BBs and not just copper so the pennies I dumped out of the bottle went into the mix. Ran that for awhile now my jackets are getting a nice copper look to them. So all that being said not sure whats going on with the mix but I like the results. Thanks for sharing the trick with us BT.

[MGG]

I have also used spent primers as poor mans steel media. It worked well for me to bring some old range brass back from the dead. My only suggestion is to not use primers that will fit in the brass's primer pockets. I found that out the hard way and had to de prime most of the brass twice.

[R.Ph. 380]

I'm one who has invested and is barely weathering the wait to receive my swaging dies for .224 from Brian. As it gets closer, I find myself doing things to be ready for when they get here. So in light of this information here's how I spent the day and what I learned:

BUSTED:

Well, today was a day off work and I had big plans. Wife was gone to Fort Worth.(That's another whole day's story). So I have these approximately 3,000 22LR expended cases which are just crying out to be cleaned and gotten ready to turn into .224 bullets for my AR 15's.

OK, first thing was to get the Ultrasonic cleaner out from the cabinet and charge it with 1 tablespoonfull of Lemi-shine and ½ teaspoonful of Dawn in HOT water. Now it is especially important to not overload the cleaner, so you only clean about 1 cupfull each go-round. Then they have to be rinsed in HOT water in a collander in the sink and put out to dry. (guess what's a better way to dry damp 22lr brass that's handy in a kitchen?) Well, there I was, all alone in the house and not going to be interrupted for a while and I thought, "Why Not?" So, I fired up the ***oven*** to 450 and took a Pyrex baking dish out of the cabinet and put an even layer of brass all over the bottom of the glass.(Good thing Pyrex is tough in addition to being heat resistant.More on this later)

Meanwhile, the oven is still increasing in temperature and I'm cleaning more and more brass in the ultrasonic cleaner. Remember, this has a mixture of Lemi-shine, Dawn and water which has to be changed often due to the extremely dirty residue washed off the tarnished brass and the residue(remember this word) of the gunpowder from their firing. SO,,,, while I am rinsing and washing, rinsing and washing, the oven has reached it's programmed 450 degrees and the brass is basking in the drying atmosphere of the oven. Sort of like John's stories of the Desert he sends 22lr brass into out there in AZ. So as my dog "Bruce"(a black Lab I like to think of as "King of the Scots") and I enjoy a day to ourselves with not a care in the world,,(Now remember up in the previous paragraph when I cautioned you to remember?)

We were startled at a series of reports that sounded suspiciously like 22lr rounds going off in close proximity to the kitchen. Glancing around nervously I noticed a whisp of smoke curling up ftom the Pyrex(remember, well this is later)

I opened the oven door, (probably not the smartest move I could have made at this point) and glanced in just as another """dud""" 22lr """empty""" case let go and announced it's rebirth. Anyone who still believes that you can kill primers or rimfire rounds with water, lemi-shine and Dawn dishwashing soap can now disabuse themselves of that notion. I'm here to tell you that a "dud" round without the bullet in it that has ben soaked and ultrasoniked for an extended time, dried out in the mild warmth of a 450 degree oven will POPwith sufficient force to scatter multiple pieces of 22lr brass from the upper oven to the lower Broiler Oven with alacrity. It will also startle the normal homeowner into releasing the oven door he momentarily opened so that it pops closed to contain said errant brass.

So, judicious use of spatula and soup ladle enabled me to clean up the evidence of my culinary efforts and leave no evidence.............................So I thought. Guess who left the oven light on and who never cooks anything in the oven? Well, as I was returning from my afternoon Dr's appointment, my wife(remember the one who was away in Fort Worth?) Called and asked were you cooking something in the Kitchen today? The light was on in the oven as was the overhead light which we never use, but works well for seeing errant pieces of cleaned 22lr brass hiding around the floor and under the edge of the cabinets. Like I SAID,,,,BUSTED. So laughing I told her the whole episode and restored equilibrium to the day. Funny, I've been banished from the kitchen and the stove. What'sup with dat???????????????????

Bill

[DukeInFlorida]

hahaha... good story!

I had a similar experience with drying them in mesh basket over the gas grill outside on the back deck. I had brass projectiles bouncing off the aluminum lid of the grill left and right.

That was the moment I committed myself to making a ROTARY stainless steel pin media tumbler!


Your washing in lemishine and dawn only cleans some of the surfaces of the .22 brass. My SS pin system REMOVES every trace of the ignition chemical from the brass, and gets rid of nearly 100% of all residue inside and outside of the brass cases.

Now that I have perfectly clean brass, I also dry it in a shallow pan in the kitchen oven, and never fear any more explosions. And, since I live alone, no fear of anyone chastising me for leaving a light on.

My tumbler (in case you missed the previous post) :


http://youtu.be/5u4mSA6BbRc

[Del-Ray]

Seeing as my post got skipped and lost....

Is it better to rinse out all the soap and acid once you're done tumbling the cored jackets if you won't be using the material for a while?

I picked up a third tumbler just for this, and think leaving everything wet may cause the BBs to corrode. So is it better to clean and dry everything for storage after use?

[taminsong]

Nice story. Same thing also happens to me when I used those dud bullets. Remove the lead and dump the powder then put them in ultrasonic cleaner and dried them in the oven.

They didn't pop in the oven but when I derimmed it, I got a little scared when the priming mix pops up! I thought I busted my derimming die.

I can say that ultrasonic cannot really remove the priming mix inside the case especially if you put a lot of brass in the cleaner. Best solution is the SS pin like Duke in his video. Mine, I used an old washing machine motor connected to a salvaged gear box to run it.

[R.Ph. 380]

Yep, ordered the STM today, Noticed that Harbor freight has a rotating tumbler. May pick one up.

Bill

[DukeInFlorida]

YES!

When I wet tumble, even with the stainless steel pins (btw, the pins are 400 series stainless steel = martensitic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martensitic_stainless_steel and not 300 stainless steel = austenitic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austenitic_stainless_steel ) , you should rinse well, and dry before putting stuff away. Especially to remove the acid from the Lemishine or citric acid that you would use. The dishwashing detergent would hamper drying abilities by keeping the surface "wetted".

btw, 400 series SS is attracted to a magnet. So, the pins from STM are magnetic. I had one batch that rusted lightly, another reason to keep em dry. I keep a magnet handy when doing the pins, it aids me in picking up pins that jump out of the area I am working in. Five here, and ten there may not seem like many when you are working with thousands in the 5 pound bag.... But they all add up.

I use a Dillon media separator to separate the media from the brass (it was the only model with the slots thin enough to retain .22 LR brass inside the tumbler), and fill the catch basin with clear warm water. The water seems to help with the pin removal from the brass. When all pins have been removed, I dump the skuzzy water, and refill the basin with clean hot water, and run the brass through that for about ten minutes. The pins remain in the bottom of the basin through both rinse cycles, so they get washed well. The brass comes out bright and spotless, inside and out! No grit, no powder residue, all set for de-rimming.

Even the annealing after derimming benefits from the bright shiny cleaning that the ss pins and rotary tumbling provides. Nothing to get baked on (no soap, no powder residue, no nuthing...) during the 850 degree anneal.

So, by all means, YES! Clean everything well, and it will last longer, and also provide you with better swaged bullets.


Seeing as my post got skipped and lost....

Is it better to rinse out all the soap and acid once you're done tumbling the cored jackets if you won't be using the material for a while?

I picked up a third tumbler just for this, and think leaving everything wet may cause the BBs to corrode. So is it better to clean and dry everything for storage after use?

[featherhead]

QUESTION ??? For efficiency shake, and to avoid redundant steps, how about waiting to clean and polish AFTER the cores are seated?

[Lizard333]

I tumble my brass before derimming to get the primer residue out to prevent damage to my dies. Then I anneal the brass. It goes into a bucket of water with citric acid. Then I seat my cores, point form, then I clean and polish in the SS media at the very end.

[featherhead]

I tumble my brass before derimming to get the primer residue out to prevent damage to my dies. Then I anneal the brass. It goes into a bucket of water with citric acid. Then I seat my cores, point form, then I clean and polish in the SS media at the very end.

I follow you on that. Clean the brass BEFORE derimming. I use an ultrasound. After derimming, lube needs to be removed with another washing. Then annealing. BUT after annealing, does it make any sense to wash and polish BEFORE seating the cores? Will the cores seat neatly in an annealed case? Is lube needed for the seating operation?

[Lizard333]

Cores have to be seated in an annealed case. Your going to be expanding the jacket and core to near final diameter in this step. You have to use lube during this step or the jacket will get stuck. A little lube goes a LONG way. The cores must be cleaned prior to seating in the jacket. I rinse my cores in acetone prior to seating them. Seat your cores, then point form. You will have plenty of lube still on your jacket to allow for easy removal from the point form die. No reason to clean between core seating and point forming.

[MIBULLETS]

I follow you on that. Clean the brass BEFORE derimming. I use an ultrasound. After derimming, lube needs to be removed with another washing. Then annealing. BUT after annealing, does it make any sense to wash and polish BEFORE seating the cores? Will the cores seat neatly in an annealed case? Is lube needed for the seating operation?

I ususally clean the jackets to remove the scale from annealling before core seating, some of the scale will come off in the die if you don't. If you core seat without lube you will wear your dies quicker and removing the seated core from the die will be more difficult.

[aaronraad]

Good pick-up BT Sniper! Accurate projectiles don't happen by accident and if they do, it's a very consistent repeatable accident. ;)

I haven't been at swaging very long compared to others but surface finish, lubrication and temperature play a signifcant role on producing the long range high BC variety projectile. The more you're aware of these elements and the more controls you put into place the tighter your projectile tolerances will be. Clean jackets are more consistent that scaled jackets. Once they are clean the effect of polishing seems to reduce the amount of swaging lubricant required. Polishing will problably assist those using mized batches of jacket material (i.e. mixed brands of cases) by making the surface finish more consistent across the batch. Given I'm using commercially available jackets already batched, I don't see the need to do any more than ensure they are clean inside and out. Shooters have reported muzzle velocity ES 1/3rd that of the equivalent popular US made long range target/hunting/tactical projectile; and a difference of only 0.009 seconds in TOF over 500m for a 10-shot string. I'm more than happy with that.

[Lizard333]

Dropping your freshly annealed cases into a bucket of water with citric acid will remove the scale. Those of you that try to tumble your jackets with only SS media will probably never do it again. The 45 minutes you take to remove your pins from being stuck in your jackets will pretty much cure that urge.

I think some are over thinking this product. Your using a 22LR piece of brass as a jacket. They are not, nor will not, be a match grade ammo. You want match grade ammo, buy commercial jackets. Look at the last postal match BT put on. I can shoot 1/4 inch groups with my bullets using commercial jackets or better. Not even close to that with 22LR brass.

[fredj338]

Dropping your freshly annealed cases into a bucket of water with citric acid will remove the scale. Those of you that try to tumble your jackets with only SS media will probably never do it again. The 45 minutes you take to remove your pins from being stuck in your jackets will pretty much cure that urge.

I think some are over thinking this product. Your using a 22LR piece of brass as a jacket. They are not, nor will not, be a match grade ammo. You want match grade ammo, buy commercial jackets. Look at the last postal match BT put on. I can shoot 1/4 inch groups with my bullets using commercial jackets or better. Not even close to that with 22LR brass.

I am just getting into this swaging game, having fun so far. I am using 22 media to polish annealed jackets, works fine, any pins left pretty much fall out when the cases are dry & you just shake them around a bit in box. It does leave the jackets nicely finished for final forming. So what is the best way to remove the lube after final point forming? Is a bath in acetone or such enough?

[Reload3006]

a lot of people ultrasonic clean them again. I wash them in MEK if you use MEK make sure to use barrier gloves and the proper PPE. But MEK will get all the oils off the brass and it make for a very good bullet. I do the same even with commercial jackets.

[BLASTER62]

You are getting to be a real TECH it's starting to scare me:coffeecom Doug

[scarry scarney]

Ok, bringing up an old post. After using the ceramic media to clean the finished bullets, how do you clean the media, or is my media too dry?

[BT Sniper]

The entire solution of media and bullets should be damp to wet when used in a vibrating tumbler. If it splashes out of your tumbler with the lid off it is to wet. Remove some water till it doesn't splash.

Once done I simple pore contents of tumbler in a bucket and rinse in water till clean. Then separate and let everything dry.

Rinse out the tumbler too.

BT

[scarry scarney]

BT

Thanks for the details.

SCarney

[MOcaster]

I just want to bump this to the top so it is easier to find the next time I need it. It works great.

[DukeInFlorida]

I don't use standing water in the tumbler when I do this. I add some detergent, and a few splashes of water until all the media is wet, but just barely. I don;t want water leaking down onto the motor of my Dillon tumbler, destroying the motor, and putting it out of warranty.

When I am done with a batch, I use a colander with small holes and merely rinse the media under tap water. It comes pretty clean.

[xman777]

Maybe I missed it, but how are we separating the 22 jackets from the SS media? I cant find a separator that doesn't let the 22's go out with the ss media!

[BLASTER62]

I use a salad spin dryer for mine, old one wife's not using.

[ronaldod]

I use a salad spin dryer for mine, old one wife's not using.
Same here i got a cheap salad spinner from ikea just for $3. The best time saver for the buck.

[MUSTANG]

xman777:

For years I used vibratory tumblers (After 20 + years I wore out a Large and Medium Dillon Tumblers; then went to the cheap ones and have gone through three in three years). I repeatedly tried the Stainless Steel Pins (Got mine from Brownells) and because of the difficulty in removing them from the mix (Even using the Dillon Rotary media separator) I would go back to vibratory tumblers and walnut media. Over the last few months I have returned to the Stainless Steel Pin media. Here are my support Tools for my process:


88491

Dual Drum Rotary Rock Tumbler

http://www.harborfreight.com/dual-drum-rotary-rock-tumbler-67632.html


Gold Mining Pan

http://www.opticsplanet.com/garrett-15-gold-pan-1650400.html?gclid=CMu58JPX_boCFVFgMgod5yoAsg&ef_id=OPTOUT:20131124145607:s


Workforce Telescopic Magnetic Pick-Up Tool

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Workforce-Telescopic-Magnetic-Pick-Up-Tool-95212/202103569#.UpIHUScliwk


After rotary tumbling for 1 to 1.5 hours I dump the 22LR Cases/Jackets and Stainless Steel Media into the Gold Mining Pan. I take the handle off of the magnet from home depot and use the Magnet head as a handle, running the other end of the magnet through the mixed Stainless Steel Media and 22LR Brass/Jackets until the head is full of pins. I hold the magnet with media over the rubber Harbor Freight rotary tumbling bowl I dumped the brass from, and scrape the pins off the magnet head back into the bowl with my finger. As I do this, it will pick up some brass that has one or more pins in it. The magnet will pull these out if you hold the brass with the mouth down on the magnet. I move the brass around in the bottom of the Gold Pan, pushing the magnet in and out of the brass until no pins are visible. Keep doing this until there are no visible pins left in the brass, and no brass attaches to the magnet head.

This process is not as fast at removing pins as I would like, but it works far better for me than tumbling in the Dillon Media Separator drum. I now rarely encounter pins in the brass, a major problem I was countering before going to this process. I have thought about buying a large & strong Rare Earth magnet, but have resisted as they may be difficult to unload the pins from. This also cleans fewer brass cases at one time, compared to the medium or large Dillon tumblers, but they do clean much faster with the Harbor Freight rotary tumbler compared to a vibratory tumbler.

Mustang

[303british.com]

If you want to separate SS pins from the brass after cleaning, here's a method I've been using for years. It's a pasta pot. After you finish cleaning, dump the contents of your tumbler into the pasta pot. Start running tap water over the brass until it covers everything by a few inches and swirl the contents around with your hand for a few minutes. The pins will go through the holes into the solid pot underneath the strainer. I do this two times and the pins are all out of the brass.

Remove the strainer pot and set to the side. The solid part will be full of pins and water. Carefully drain the water off and dump the pins back into the tumbler. The pins will be clean and ready for the next batch.

There are lots of these pots around. Go for a cheapie, available at camping stores/Wally World for around $10. Here's the one I use. Note that the strainer is shorter than the main pot and sits above the bottom when placed inside.

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/S_Redgwell/Bullet%20Making/pastapot1_zps76c67309.jpg

Here's the strainer part. The pins go through but not the brass.

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/S_Redgwell/Bullet%20Making/pastapot2_zps034da258.jpg

[DukeInFlorida]

The Dillon small media separator has slots small enough to keep the .22 LR brass in, while allowing the SS or ceramic media to fall through. I fill the pan that comes with the media separator with clean warm water, which seems to facilitate the separation process.

http://www.doublealpha.biz/images/large-media-separator.jpg

[303british.com]

I was going to order one some time back, but they wanted $60 plus shipping. The pot you see above was $9. Using either method, you have to stir the cases. With the Dillon, you turn the handle in a circle for a couple of minutes. With the pot, I put my hand in the basket and turn it in a circle for a couple of minutes. The pot also doubles as a boiler to clean my brass. :)

[xman777]

I ended up buying the Dillon and it works famously. Thanks for the pointer.
X

[chaoticmachinery]

Thanks for posting this Brian.

I took some 22LRs that were "planted" in the ground for who knows how long. The brass was pretty much black. I put the brass, 2 tablespoons of Citric Acid, and Dawn into bucket with a gallon of water. Then for the hell of it I threw in some copper piper pieces I had left over from a plumbing job. I left the brass in for a little over an hour. When I pulled the brass some the dark pieces were coated in copper. I imagine when I get a chance to put them in a SS tumbler, they will clean up even more. I can post before and after pics if anyone is interested.

CM

[plus1hdcp]

Pictures are always welcomed

[chaoticmachinery]

Pictures are always welcomed

No problem. I don't have pictures of the brass before hand. However, I found some shells that looked just like the shells before I put them into the bath. Here's a pic of them side by side. All I did was put the shells into the bath and swirled the water around every twenty minutes. My main goal was to clean some of the dirt off before putting them into the tumbler and see if I could brighten up the brass.
106823

Yesterday when I pulled them out they had a nice copper tone to them. Not pinkish. I can say the copper pipe pieces came out nice and bright.

I figure they will clean up more once I tumble them with the SS pins. I'll probably put some Citric acid and the copper pipes pieces into the tumbler with the brass.

CM

[Prospector Howard]

The thought of using old cases like that for jackets makes me cringe. You may want to rethink that whole idea for a number of reasons. I don't think I could ever get that desperate for jackets.

[plus1hdcp]

The thought of using old cases like that for jackets makes me cringe. You may want to rethink that whole idea for a number of reasons. I don't think I could ever get that desperate for jackets.

I agree with Howard on this. I remember a batch of 22lr which I must have use too much citric acid and they turned a pinkish color. I scrapped them all even though they were most likely OK.