What Is Your Favorite Moose Milk?

[Hip's Ax]

Ballistol and water 50/50? Something else?

[waksupi]

1-10, water soluble oil, and water. Substitute windshield washer fluid for water in the winter.

[Hip's Ax]

Any particular water soluble oil?

[shooter575]

Hip,I assume you meen for cleaning bores?I have tried a bunch and they all work.Just some better or faster than others.
Hor water with a squirt of dish soap is good at home
Simple green + H20 I some times add a squirt or two of ballistal
My first homemade BP cleaner was Murphys oil soap,80% rubbing alcohol and Hydrogen peroxide. 1/3 of each.Cheep and works well as I seem to keep going back to it. I follow up the bore with sheath.

[The Double D]

Straight undiluted Prestone anti freeze.

[Nardoo]

Ax,

I use this for patch lube, swabbing between shots and cleaning the bore before I head home to do a proper job with boiling water:

13 parts distilled water. (ie. no chlorine)
2 parts water soluable cutting oil
1 part quality dish washing liquid
1/2 part of liquid disinfectant

You can work out what each ingredient does by its nature. A gallon of this costs very little and lasts a long time. It is also the most accurate lube for my .36 cal Seneca that i have tried.

Nardoo

[Hip's Ax]

Thanks for all the input folks. It is swabbing between shots that I am interested in. Are there some trade names for this water soluable cutting oil (besides Ballistol) so I know I'm buying the right thing? :-D

[Hip's Ax]

Straight undiluted Prestone anti freeze.

Wow! Hadn't heard of that one before! Interesting! :mrgreen:

[Hip's Ax]

Hip,I assume you meen for cleaning bores?I have tried a bunch and they all work.Just some better or faster than others.
Hor water with a squirt of dish soap is good at home
Simple green + H20 I some times add a squirt or two of ballistal
My first homemade BP cleaner was Murphys oil soap,80% rubbing alcohol and Hydrogen peroxide. 1/3 of each.Cheep and works well as I seem to keep going back to it. I follow up the bore with sheath.

I'll try this one for final cleaning at the end of the day! Thanks!

[felix]

Brand makes no difference. Most should work OK. Take a plastic coke bottle to the local machine shop and have them pump some concentrate out of their 55 gallon tank for you. Either cutting or cooling water mixable "oil" is what you want. All are something like a methyl-ethyl glycol mix, or some special polymer just as good for our "rag" purposes. Cutting liquids have a lower ph, and they should be preferred for BP use given a choice. ... felix

[No_1]

We use CimStar here at work. Here is the link:
http://www.cimcool.com/cgi-bin/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=M&Category_Code=CIMS



Thanks for all the input folks. It is swabbing between shots that I am interested in. Are there some trade names for this water soluable cutting oil (besides Ballistol) so I know I'm buying the right thing? :-D

[The Double D]

Wow! Hadn't heard of that one before! Interesting! :mrgreen:


I got it from Paul Mathew's book on black powder cartridges. I don't know if he has moved onto something else, but I haven't.

Use antifreeze for between shot wiping. Works good.

For cleaning I use antifreeze just like you would use Hoppes for smokeless powder cleaning.

I just run patches dampened in the anti freeze down the bore until they come out clean. Usually about one patch for each round fired, plus 4 or 5. Push the patch down the bore and let it drop out the other end.

Wipe the breech block and end of barrel or any where else powder residue might have got with an antifreeze wetted patch. Dry the bore and metal.

Now you ready for this. With a patch wetted in NAPA ATF-4 transmission fluid oil every thing up.

It has worked in the high dry prairie air of Montana, the muggy wet air of Virginia and the humid Indian Ocean air in kwaZulu-Natal.

[Hip's Ax]

We use CimStar here at work. Here is the link:
http://www.cimcool.com/cgi-bin/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=M&Category_Code=CIMS

Thanks! Thats what I was looking for, I was browsing the MSC online catalog but it seemed whenever I would encounter a cutting fluid available in less than a 5 gallon pail it was not soluable in water. :drinks:

[Hip's Ax]

I got it from Paul Mathew's book on black powder cartridges. I don't know if he has moved onto something else, but I haven't.

Use antifreeze for between shot wiping. Works good.

For cleaning I use antifreeze just like you would use Hoppes for smokeless powder cleaning.

I just run patches dampened in the anti freeze down the bore until they come out clean. Usually about one patch for each round fired, plus 4 or 5. Push the patch down the bore and let it drop out the other end.

Wipe the breech block and end of barrel or any where else powder residue might have got with an antifreeze wetted patch. Dry the bore and metal.

Now you ready for this. With a patch wetted in NAPA ATF-5 transmission fluid oil every thing up.

It has worked in the high dry prairie air of Montana, the muggy wet air of Virginia and the humid Indian Ocean air in kwaZulu-Natal.



Now thats some good info! Thanks! :coffee:

[NickSS]

I use spit at the range for wiping the bore between relays (I always have it with me and as I have used spit on patches in muzzle loaders for 40 years I started usung it during matches when I forgot my more exotic cleaning materials. After the match at home I run one or two patches of balistol and water (1 to 10 mix) then a dry patch. I then run a patch with Kroil on it (this floats away any lead) and lastly I put a coat of sheath on the inside and outside of the barrel.

[13Echo]

Everybody has a recipie for cleaning. I've tried antifreeze and it works, or did, till my dog tried to eat a patch. No more antifreeze for me. I've used distilled water and it works just fine as does Ballistol and water. Now days I'm using Windex with vinegar (not the ammonia kind). I find it works very well. It neutralizes the mildly basic black powder fouling, it won't poison my dog, and it won't cause rust like hydrogen peroxide can. Just dampen a patch with the spray bottle and run it through from the breech. With a good bore two or three patches gets the fouling out. Follow with a couple of dry patches and then some Ed's Red or a good gun oil. If the bore is pitted it takes a few more wet patches and I'll follow the dry patches with a water displacing oil such as WD40 or Kroil and then oil the bore. Is it better than soluble oil or other Moose Milks? Probably not. But it works and it's a lot easier to find in the grocery than soluble oil.

Jerry Liles

[Harpman]

I ended up using water soluble oil from napa, dump the contents in a jug, then refill the container 6 times with water and mix, is excellent for between BPCR shots, damp patch, and for muzzle loaders, I soak denim patch in it, then let dry, and is awesome for that too, best groups I ever got was using this stuff, as a dry lube , after a million other concoctions I tried

[The Double D]

Now days I'm using Windex with vinegar (not the ammonia kind). I find it works very well. It neutralizes the mildly basic black powder fouling, it won't poison my dog, and it won't cause rust like hydrogen peroxide can.
Jerry Liles

Jerry,

You may be wrong there, it won't attract your dog like the sweet smelling anti freeze will, but it can still poison your dog, i'll bet.. Probably not enough bad stuff from either product in a used patch to kill a dog, but neither is good for them.

My dogs won't go near a dropped antifreeze patch...don't know why because they consider anything that hits the floor as a snack.

Just the same I try not to have them around when I am cleaning.

[13Echo]

Double D,

I'm not aware that black powder residue is particularly toxic and vinegar certainly isn't. As for antifreeze as bore cleaner, I used it and liked it. It cleaned the bore, and inhibited rust but it is toxic if ingested, it tastes sweet, and it looks like KoolAid. The dogs seem to like it and I have a 3 year old grandson. So I stopped using it. The vinegar Windex works well but not necessiarly better, but it does make me feel a lot more comfortable.

Jerry Liles

[Harpman]

I noticed my patch size makes all the difference also, a 2X2 patch opens groups to 4 inches at 100 yards, where as all else being the same a 1 1/2 inch square patch closes it to one hole...2X2 gets it too clean, the other leaves just a very thin coat of fouling.

[The Double D]

Double D,
but it does make me feel a lot more comfortable.

Jerry Liles

Jerry, this is the most important part of your post and should be everyones quideline!

[Hackleback]

I have heard about people using Windex w/ vinegar for some time. I have never seen it for sale, and I have looked for it. The entire line of Windex products was revamped about a year ago, some products were dropped and others reformulated. Here is the Vinegar product that is currently being produced. Is this what people are using??

http://www.windex.com/counter-cleaner/

[13Echo]

Just checked out the MSDS on the new "Windex With Vinegar" glass cleaner. It seems it doesn't contain any vinegar. I have a supply of the old stuff and it does have a vinegar smell so I'm assuming it does. The new version contains a very small amount of ethylene glycol n-hexyl ether a small amount of isopropyl alcohol and is mostly water (more than 90%). Furthermore it isn't even acidic like vinegar would be and is mildly basic, around pH 9.5. According to the MSDS its Health Hazard rating is very low at 0. It should be effective as a bore cleaner, at least as effective as water but otherwise, nothing special. When I run out of my current supply I'll probably just go back to distilled water and maybe add a bit of white vinegar. What galls me is the shamelessness of the SC Johnson company.

Jerry Liles

[highwallbo]

Napa Auto Parts sells 1qt. contaniers of water soluble oil for $6.00

[crossfireoops]

This was given to me by John Getz, him and his Dad won a bunch of Slug Gun shoots with it.

50 / 50 Murphie's Oil soap, and the strongest Isopropyl rubbing alky ( 90-95%) Wally world sells.

My small and big case capacity .45 cal cartridge rifles love the stuff.

Toxicty involves the "squirts" at worsts...dog, or man.....don't see how you could poison yourself, or pooch with......Ive've never had ANY problem, and some fresh water sees your hands shiny clean.

Slimy, slooshy, so have a rag handy wiping between shots, or you'll have a hard time hangin' onto your rig, pronto.

The soapy / waxy residue will bind up an action (I run Sharps) in cold weather, but is non corrosive, and in Summer Arizona heat, somewhat productive.....slicks things right up.

My $.02

GTC

[Bad Flynch]

Well, BP fouling has been analyzed and the residue is very much alkaline (basic). It seemed to me that it should be acid, with the possibilities of the combustion leaving behind the anhydrides of Sulfurous and Sulfuric acids, but the overwheliming part of the residue that affects pH is made up of Potash and Lye from the Saltpetre.

When the pH is high, as is the case, then adding a mild acid like vinegar would seem to be logical and, indeed, Windex with Vinegar or some other concoction with vinegar added would seem to be a good idea. However, they work no better than water.

pH, as the chemists out there will recognize, is a concentration dependent phenomenon. All one really needs to do is to dilute the alkali sufficiently and the problem will go away, i.e., wash the problem off the gun, even with plain water. Soap added will help remove the other fouling material.

Adding a soluble oil to the water is a remarkably sensible idea. I have been using Ballistol, about 1 to 2 parts in 10 parts of water for some time now. All I do is clean my gun with this mix, wipe it down thoroughly, and then spray it again and let it "dry." This removes the fouling and leaves behind an oily film of Ballistol all over the gun. No problems, no rust.

I have even been so daring as to fire my guns and simply spray them down. Then I wait for the rust. To date, I have had no problems up to 3 days with only a spray-down of Ballistol Milk. I can, apparently, come back at will to finish the cleaning.

[The Double D]

Double D,

I'm not aware that black powder residue is particularly toxic and vinegar certainly isn't. As for antifreeze as bore cleaner, I used it and liked it. It cleaned the bore, and inhibited rust but it is toxic if ingested, it tastes sweet, and it looks like KoolAid. The dogs seem to like it and I have a 3 year old grandson. So I stopped using it. The vinegar Windex works well but not necessiarly better, but it does make me feel a lot more comfortable.

Jerry Liles

Just an up date to ease your comfort level, Anti freeze is now made to have a bitter taste to animals and kids.

[bigted]

very cool post all,,,from a newer entrant to this i get the feeling that simple is usually best. i especially got a kick outta the size of the patches bringing accuracy to bear. i hadnt thought about this and it makes sense that too clean for an accuracy aspect is not a good thing while in the midle of a shoot. thanks for that tip.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I use 2, damp 2.5 inch patches and 1, 3 inch dry patch while shooting Creedmoor this if for paper patch Bullets both are round patches. I use 2 damp 1.75 patches when shooting Silhouette and do not wipe out all the fouling, square patches. With Grease Groove bullets and your getting leading your wiping too much out of the barrel in my experience

A 45 cal brush is used with the Patches in Creedmoor shooting no brush with the Silhouette load (38-50).

Mix was 1 part oil to 3 parts water for the past couple years, am thinking of going to 1 part oil and 5 parts water as Jimbo and others are having real good luck with that, Napa Cutting oil is what we use.

KW
The Lunger

[Gellot Wilde]

Cutting oil & water mostly.

[Hip's Ax]

Wow, can't believe this resurfaced. Been shooting MR and LR with my CPA's, one 45-70 and one 45-90 for a couple of seasons now. My shooting buddy and I have been useing Tru-Sol water soluable machinists oil 10:1 with great success.

[Seth Hawkins]

Water.

Plain & simple.

There is nothing better.

[ironhead7544]

1 oz of cutting water cutting oil from NAPA. 1 oz hydrogen peroxide from the drugstore. 1 oz dish washing soap. Add 1 quart of water. This was designed by a chemical engineer for black powder. Works as a patch lube on the range. I heard from a BP gunsmith that most of the people at Friendship are using this formula. The water and soap clean away the dirt. The peroxide penetrates the metal and takes some oil with it.

[Beekeeper]

A patch question from a newbe if I may.

I have a couple of 71/84 Mausers I want to shoot with black powder.
As you know they are bolt action and the bolt requires a lot of work and tools to remove.

When swabbing the bore is it acceptable to pull a patch from chamber to muzzle?

Double D would the prestone work on something like I described or would soluble oil/water be better, or maybe windex?


Jim

[ironhead7544]

A patch question from a newbe if I may.

I have a couple of 71/84 Mausers I want to shoot with black powder.
As you know they are bolt action and the bolt requires a lot of work and tools to remove.

When swabbing the bore is it acceptable to pull a patch from chamber to muzzle?

Double D would the prestone work on something like I described or would soluble oil/water be better, or maybe windex?


Jim

Some firearms must be cleaned from the muzzle. Just use a bore guide for the rod so it doesnt touch the crown.

[The Double D]

The Prestone will work for any blackpowder rifle.

I shoot Martini and clean from the muzzle. As Iron head says do something to protect the rifling at the crown. In my case I use a coated rod...now that ought to stir up the pot!

[Lead pot]

I use 50/50 RV antifreeze. It wont evaporate in a hot barrel it says consistent and is non toxic.
I find cutting oil has a tendency to get sticky as it evaporates.