Talk to me about Iron Sights and aging Eyes

[JohnH]

Let's start here, I'm 48, been a welder all my life, eye's been burned more times than I can count. About 12 years ago I was hit with the end of a starter rope in my right eye (don't you know that's my dominant and I'm right handed to boot) and there is loose stuff floatin' around in there that nothing can be done about.

Over the last 6 years or so, I've shot nothing but scoped rifles over rests with cast boolits, and am feeling the need to expand my horizons again. Have shot a friends Security Six some and am shootin' a semi auto 9mm carbine. The revolver has adjustable sights, the carbine a peep sight (such as it is, a small hole punched thru sheet steel).

Several years ago I bought a Mosin Nagant M44. I hadn't shot it much because I couldn't mount a scope on it readily (Not willing to spend as much as the rifle cost on a scope mount, forget that) I drug it out today, and carried it on my walk, sighting at various bushes, tree limb crotches, smallbirds and such, and found to my surprise that I can see better through the sights than I thought I would be able to under field conditions.

On the way back in, I grabbed a can of white spray paint from the shed, walked down to my back stop, sprayed my swinging steel pig (NRA Hunter Pistol Silhoutte) and low and behold, could see it quite well. My shooting lane is heavily shaded, and at 75 yards the rusted swinger is practically invisible against the backgound of brown soil. At that range I can barely make out a floresent yellow target spot 2" square with my naked eye.

Gonna make up some 7.62x54R blammo tonight and give it a try tomorrow, see what happens.

Been feeling of late kinda stuck in a bland routine with my shootzen. It's fun and relaxing, but not real challengingat this point, I think I need some variety. I've not shot any iron sights in these recent years, I was wanting a higher level of accuracy than I felt they could give, and I also thought my eyes were past their prime for good iron sight shooten, but the need for variety and challenge is creating it's own demand.

So how did/do you older fella's deal with eye's that don't work like they used to, what makes a good iron sight good, are peeps more versatile than they appear on the surface, is there any specific thing you did to improve your use of irons?

[mainiac]

Boy, dont this sound familiar!! I went from the most accurate guns man can make, to cast bullet handguns,and levers. Now im shooting muzzle loaders exclusively. I also am a welder/fitter, and thought my eyes was going bad. Only 39, but thought that i should start shooting open sights now, while i still could. I cant explain it, but i seem to see the sights alot better now than i did a few years ago? Always use to have a shade 10 in my hood, to see the puddle. Now i use a 12,because the 10 hurts my eyes once im home in the evening. Sounds crazy i know.... Anyway, I seem to have a heck of a time shooting the open sights,in this point of my life. Having more fun now than any time previous. Aint in competition anymore, so my shooting is more relaxing. Only one i need to beat is myself. My most accurate shooting guns have bead front sights, i have some guns with blade front sight, and i dont shoot these as well.

[chevyiron420]

JohnH our eye historys are about the same and i have some nice rifles with scopes, but never shoot them. i always take a old milsurp to the range and am stuck with iron sights. the important thing to me is to have fun. i cant shoot with others with better eyes, or better skills, but i have fun so i dont care. i found that i cant see a 8 1\2x11 piece of white paper with a 2 inch orange dot at 75 yards. i see a white fuzzy area down there and just use the force from there. i found its better if the light is a little overcast and diferent color targets help too. a few weeks ago my son and i went to the range. he was concerned about no hitting the paper with his new mauser, so he propped up a box with a orange dot on it. i shot a 1 1\4 group with my 8x57 m95m steyr at 75 or so yards. i was so happy i didnt think to realize that i could see it. now i want to know what color that box was, and its gone back to n.c. in the back of his truck.-phil:castmine:

[drinks]

The pinole attachments from Lyman and others help,I made one from a case, cut off the rim, soldered a piece of #12 copper wire on it and bent it so it would hang off my glasses frame and align with the view over the sights, just look through the flash hole.

[wills]

A discussion of peep sights:
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/images/No%202%20Tang%20Instructions.pdf

also

http://www.lymanproducts.com/images/DIOPTER%2003.jpg

also
http://www.meritcorporation.com/images/steve_with_oa.jpg
http://www.meritcorporation.com/

[Dale53]

I am age 72 and have serious vision problems. However, with a Red Dot sight I can shoot pistol about as well as I ever could.

I've gone through all of the stages except that I started out with poor vision (near sighted). After I reached bi-focal stage in my forties, I found, with pistol, that the Merit disc on my glasses (adjustable iris) worked extremely well for slow fire (in fact, the whole NRA Bullseye discipline). However, trying the same thing with open sights (OPEN sights, not peep sights) on rifles, it didn't work well. My fat little cheeks would push my glasses up when I "cheeked" the rifle moving the merit disc from the optimum position. You might experiment with a perforated piece of paper glued to various places on your glasses to see if that works for you.

Better is a Merit Iris (use the match type) replacing the regular disc in a peep sight. That will work for you for years. A good man with good peep sights (I'm thinking match grade, here) is very nearly as good as a telescope sight. When I shot smallbore competition, my iron sight scores (peeps) were very nearly as good as my scope scores (Master Class). The advantage of the Merit Disc is it is adjusted for the light available. this makes a BIG difference. You will find as you get older you lose contrast in the target. I got so I couldn't see steel silhouette targets good enough. However, with a scope, I am still competitive. This was maintained until I had cataract and retinal surgery on my right eye in May 2003.

Now, with scopes and red dots I am nearly as good as before. However, my iron sight scores are not all that good.

Tomorrow, I go under the knife again for a lens replacement (cataract) and retinal surgery in the left eye. Wish me luck.

Dale53

[monadnock#5]

Our prayer's go out to you Dale.

http://www.bjonessights.com/index.html

I don't think that the stuff bjones sells will help for hunting applications, but he has extended my use of the M1A for a number of years with his products.

[trk]

Dale our prayers are with ya.

50 years ago you'd just have to had to live with it.

Keep us posted!

[piwo]

JohnH,
You casting for that M44? I have five different variant of Mosin Nagants (but not a complete M44, just barreled action) and different groove/land diameters in almost all of them.

At 49, I don't shoot iron sights too well, yet just like mainiac, I shoot muzzleloaders exclusively right now. What is the arsenal/year of your M44? Ruskie, Polskie, Romanian???

[klw]

I've been interested in guns and reloading equipment all my life but, oddly enough, never really interested in shooting. When I retired I promised myself that I'd finally get around to teaching myself to shoot. 128,000+ rounds later I'm getting there. Go five days a week about ten months out of the year with between six and ten guns a trip. Been doing this since 2000.

I use Dixie's blackpowder 100 yard targets. There are cheap and I need a lot of them. Each scoring ring is exactly one inch wide. Use these for everything. All the targets are scored and then computerized. So I can compare performance over very long periods of time, years literally. Or I can compare performance between days, months, guns, etc. Having very accurate records lets you see what is important and what isn't. There are some surprises in that.

I've been studying how practice improves marksmanship. But part of that is also how aging affects eyesight and hence marksmanship. I have very very tiny catracts but they are right dead center in both eyes. But it doesn't seem to matter. Sure the sights are getting slowly fuzzier but accuracy hasn't suffered, at least not yet.

Also I'm keeping track of what type of sights are on which gun to see if one type stands out above the rest. Not yet.

I asked the eye doctor if scopes would help. He said no. They just don't help people with catracts.

But so far though things look a bit fuzzier I can still line the fuzzy sights up as well as I ever could. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over time. But so far it just doesn't seem to matter

[carpetman]

JohnH---I have posted this several times but here goes again. If you need glasses to read,find some print you cant read without your glasses. Now make a small pin hole in a piece of paper or easier yet curl your index finger up where it makes a small hole place either the paper or your finger to your eye and look through it. You can probably now read that print. Thats how glasses work,they make your eye focus when it was unable to do it on it's own. Peep sights also do this. I have peep on an air rifle and until a couple years ago,the smallest aperture I could get worked great. Now I have had to go to a bigger aperture. I am right eyed and left eye dominant and have always shot right handed with right eye. If I had to switch,I'd have to give up shooting. I also shoot scoped guns and so far no problem with them.

[racepres]

Gotta go w/ carpetman! As I currently shoot the Model 1917 [peep] better than any open sights! I don't use my glasses w/ a scope. But for my Handgun work, I use good ole 1.25 readers from the drug store!!!! Which I wear abt 90% of the time anyway!! Only use my "scripts" when reading, or just too fatigued to See!! Good luck... gettin old sucks... but the alternative is worse!!!! MV

[carpetman]

Forgot to mention--I find progressive lenses to work much better than bifocals are reading glasses. If you started out with bifocals--it's about two weeks of driving you crazy to adjust to the progressives,but then all that goes away and most people like them. I'm told the adjustment is easy if you go from no glasses directly to progressive.

[Dale53]

Thanks for the "best wishes" folks (both public and private").

I'm going into this with a MOST positive attitude.

Dale53

[Drifter]

I've also had a problem with fuzzy sights while pistol shooting. I've got one pistol with a Red Dot on it but I prefer shooting iron sights. My eyes are almost 60 yrs. old and don't quite work the way they use to. The Merit Iris that Wills posted a picture of does work in clearing the sights up. I use one that's a little different but works the same way. Here's a picture of it and a link if anyone is interested:

http://www.championshooters.com/optical-iris.htm

[versifier]

John et al.,

I just sent GL Master an article I wrote entitled Peep Sights For Hunting Rifles for the GL Home page that he will likely post there. It explains in detail but in simple English how they work, why they work so well, and why you should consider using them on all of your non-scoped hunting rifles. If he chooses not to post it, PM me an email address and I will send it as a .doc attachment minus the photos.

BTW, there's a lot of other good stuff on the GL Home Page and it's so easy to overlook it in one's haste to log on here. Click on the Gunloads logo at the top of the page to check it out. Articles, printable targets, loading data, news, all kinds of good stuff. Check it out.

[buck1]

John, On pistols I have found that shorter bbls now shoot better than the longer ones. The shorter sight rad helps a lot.
PM sent.....Buck

[45nut]

Good point on the Gunloads site itself, CB is just one part of the Gunloads domain and should you have an article you are interested in posting that doesn't really tie in with the CB format it would help us all if you let Willy in to post it elsewhere.
We have over 3,400 members and I would bet a far larger number can contribute to the whole in information articles.
Gun reviews, misc. equipment, photography for our stuff, there are thousands of topics out there.

[223tenx]

GUYS,
I'm 59 and just had cataract surgery on my right eye last Wednesday. My vision went from a fuzzy double image to 20/50 and the doc says it will get better. The surgery took 13--THIRTEEN-- MINUTES. Absolutely no pain. Just wore a patch for a day and have to use drops for about 3 weeks. Man, I wish I'd have known 6 months ago how easy the surgery was. It was actually not as bad as a colonoscopy (just a different end, of course). I've got the left eye scheduled for the 8th of Aug. The best thing is I can see the front sight post in focus w/o glasses. I was always extremely near sighted before. If anybody has a cataract I would highly reccomend (recommend) (sp?) they get it fixed.

[Frank46]

John, I shoot a lot of mil surps with iron sights. My lever actions have either current production lyman or williams receiver mounted sights. On my 94 win canadian cenntennial in 30-30 I put a lyman globe front sight. Since I have cataracts and occasional floaters I have found that the circle aperture on the globe front sight is best for me. I also enlarge the rear aperture as big as it will safely go without cutting into the threads where it screws into the receiver sight. It may look wierd to have a globe front sight on a win 94 but it works for me. I do sometimes have problems focusing on the blade front sight such as on the K-31 or yugo 48. The current lyman and williams receiver sights are made of an aluminum alloy so if you decide to get either, grease the elevation and windage stems with either shooter's choice hi-tech grease or moly grease. This will prevent premature wear. One look on ebay and you will see the old lyman steel receiver sights as well as the old redfield ones. If you get lucky and get one do the same grease job as it will make the operation of the sight much easier. Hope this helps. Frank

[targetshootr]

This subject has been on my mind too. When I took up shooting regularly at 45 (7 years ago) I already lost one eyeball due to disease which is not a shooting problem but the other eye is going downhill. I look over my glasses to get the front blade in focus which makes the target fuzzy. It doesn't stop me from enjoying going but it would be nice to shoot better before I have to give it up. Last week I noticed Bob Munden still shoots like there's no tomorrow so there's still hope I guess. He must be well into his 60s and he hit a balloon at 200 yards offhand with a snubbie 38.

[floodgate]

223tenx:

Congatulations! My wife and I - now into our mid-70's - had ours done eight or ten years ago. Ain't it nice to be able to go around without feeling someone has smeared mayonnaise on your glasses???

One other advantage is that you can specify the focal length for the new bionic lens implants, so - for all you shooters - discuss with your opthamologist / surgeon just how you use your eyes, and settle on the best lens. I had mine set for 30" - 36" best focus, and I can actually read comfortably at arm's length, and - by daylight at least - COULD drive safely if I should lose my distance glasses. (I don't, and I always carry a spare set - my last year's ones - but I COULD, in a pinch!).

Not everything about life in these times is a step down from the "old days"; and eye surgery is one of the best examples!

[End of rant!]

floodgate

[Dale53]

Well, I had the left eye sugery yesterday afternoon. It seemed to go well but not only included a lens replacement (cataract) but retinal "peeling" and laser treatment for a hole in my retina. It only took about 40 minutes including a storm induced power outtage while the surgeon had his big feet in the interior of my eyeball. The Surgeon was quite cool, however, neither did I fret. Just made things a tad more "interesting".

I agree fully with 223tenx that it is an easy piece of surgery. I had the right eye done in 2003 and this went even better. They put me under for the big shot in the eye and then I was awake for all the rest of the operation. The Cincinnati Eye Institute in the person of Dr. Petersen did the work and I can recommend both the physician and staff with out reservation. REALLY good people.

This morning when the patch came off, my eyeball was still locked in place from the anesthetic and I got a good approximation as to how it must feel when "cross eyed". My left eye didn't track. Really a weird feeling and somewhat disorienting. It was expected, however, and most of that cleared up later in the day. It'll be a few days before I know HOW successful the surgery was but things are improving almost by the hour. It looks good if things continue in a positive direction.

For what it's worth, I had not a single moment of pain. Piece of cake...

Dale53

[Nueces]

Good deal, Dale. Here's hoping the rest of your recovery goes as well.

Mark

[tomf52]

In this thread have been several suggestions, and good ones at that, for those diopter attachments for your glasses when shooting. I have found a very inexpensive alternative to the ones marketed for shooters. Pick up a pair of those plastic clip on sunglasses and spray paint the lens of your shooting eye with black paint. Then in the appropriate location drill a small hole, start with about 1/16" and work up until you find the right size. 1/8" seems to work beat for me. This arrangement is very convenient to use. Flip down to shoot, up to reload or do whatever. Unused side still acts as sunglass for the bright days. You can actually plot out the best location and size for the aperature you want to drill in the lens by using pieces of blac electrical tape on your everyday eyeglass lens first. Costs about $6.00 to make them.

[Dale53]

Nueces;
Thanks for the kind words.

Tomf52;
that suggestion sounds like a GREAT idea for the economically challenged (and who amongst us can say we have never been "in that place"?) You can even remove the off side dark lens if you need to, but I would probably welcome the "dampening" of the vision in the left eye (it is very important to shoot with both eyes open and a dark lens on the unused eye will allow you to do that but concentrate your vision in your aiming eye. I really like that concept.

Dale53

[twotoescharlie]

I posted on the clip on, flip up sunglasses about 2 years ago, seems like most wanted to go to the expensive route.

TTC

[Dale53]

twotoescharlie;
Most of us opt for the commercial items if we can afford it (proven to work and requires no effort on our part except buying it/them).

Years ago I was shooting "Traditional" black powder cartridge handguns and needed some help in the vision area. It would have been severely frowned upon if I had tried to use the Merit eye piece. However, no one would have thought much about it if I had used your method (I, of course, would not have advertised that I had a hole in my dark glasses). That would have solved the problem for me. I won my share but I would have done better with a good sight picture[smilie=1:.

Some of the "traditional" rules for muzzle loaders just about guarantee that someone in his fifties doesn't have a chance (open sights only). However, in one of my books there is a picture of an original flintlock riflewith peep sights. In fact, there are original crossbows that date back to the sixteen hundreds that had peep sights on them. Yet, they are not allowed on "Traditional" muzzle loaders. In fact, at the NMLRA Nationals, for years they fought against allowing boots in the "Primitive" matches (Primitive meaning traditional) and some actually argued that boots were not invented before that period. Wonder where they think the term "Wellington" boots came from (Wellington fought at the battle of Waterloo, defeating Napoleon well before the "Traditional" time period). Of course, George Washington's boots are at Mt. Vernon (I have been there and seen them). Ignorance knows no bounds...

I'm beyond using aperture glasses to help my vision when pistol shooting (Red Dots are doing fine, now) but if I weren't, I would go out today and buy a pair of clip ons and make me a set. That's how nice an idea I think yours is. I have both a Merit eyepiece (suction cup on glasses) and a German adjustable iris that clips onto eyeglasses similar to flip up sunglasses. Of course, I also have several merit irises in peep sights. They work extremely well where they are legal.

Dale53

[versifier]

Willy has now posted my Peep Sights article on the GL Home Page. Here is a link: http://gunloads.com/modules.php?name=Targets&pa=showpage&pid=40

[lead_her_fly]

I shoot handguns almost exclusively. What I have done is gotten "mepro lite" type sights for them. They gather light and that really helps.
My optomatrist is a shooter and he makes shooting glasses for some of us. He takes what would be a trifocal, arms length focus, and makes a single vision lense out of it for your dominant eye. Works well for some.

[JohnH]

I enjoyed that article a lot, trying to figure out where to put a peep on my Mosin Nagant

[smokemjoe]

I have something like what Champion Shooters have that I just found this week in a box,I used them Monday with irons and I put 10 shots in a 1.5 at 100 yds, It:drinks: puts a new look on shooting, Now what do you use for the wind. Smokemjoe

[georgeld]

Being 63 now and always worn pop bottle bottoms for glasses since the 3rd grade.
Been wearing contacts since about 78. One of the best things I've ever discovered.

Went to scopes when I was still a teen, even on my .22. About 10 yrs ago, got my first m/l and couldn't see the front site. Fought it til someone told me to paint the front site white. We had about 10-14 shooters in the b/p matches and I was in the lower 3/4 most of the time. With that white spot I went to being quite competitive. It's the simple things that make the most difference it seems.

So far Iv'e not had cataracts, nor those iris helpers. I have worn bifocals about 12 yrs or so. But, mostly store bought +2 readers over the contacts for reading and much of the time online too. I get along well enough considering. Seems most of my problems is ortho related. Knees and back surgeries.

Worked as a weldor about 15 yrs too. I've found wearing those readers while welding makes a lot of difference in the results since I can see what's happening with the puddle and joint a lot better.

You guys with the eye surgeries, I wish you all the best results.

[charger 1]

Talked to the optometrist on this cause I was loosing my ability to focus irons, ecspecially on snow. He was telling me that the blast of air they hit your eye with in an exam is to check the fluid behind the eye, its ability to flex. Supposedly as we get older we can expect irons to get harder to shoot, not so much at arms length and 6" apart like a handgun, but on things like say my high wall with lyman peep up close and blade way out. According to him when you were young your eye wasnt focused on both at once ,but rather going back and forth between them and target so fast you werent even aware of it. As that fluid dries out you loose that ability. His answer was never stare at a single distance for extended periods, get good sleep(haha) Oh ya, and live with it

[piwo]

Boy, doesn't this all sound familiar.... Yep, aging eye's are the devil. LIke mainiac, I too shot and spent money on creating as accurate a rifle was possible (on my budget), and was blessed to get a nice rifle put together by a legend of benchrest. I too now shoot exclusively muzzle loading smoke poles..:)

Well, I may break my 30-06 out this fall and start some load workups. Until then, just my flinters, and hence the developement of my not so world famous "piwo peep" sight. It has helped my aging eye's greatly, and I really think it's improved my shooting. Not necessarily for pinpoint accuracy, but quick and sure target aquisition with old eye's, it's been a big help.

[223tenx]

I took the grandson, he's 11, to the range on Tuesday and shot my Mossberg 22 trainer. This is the first time I've shot it since cataract surgery on my right eye. I shot a 3/4 " group at 50 yds and giggled. GS told me not to gloat. I explained that I wasn't, just really tickled that I could use the peep. Now I have to wait a week to see, literally, how the left one came out. He shot a 2" group. I can't get him to concentrate on breath control.

[Just Duke]

Well I just picked a fine time in my life to switch from tactical mid and long range weapons back to Lever Actions. I still have all the tactical weapons, well, most, but I took a long hard look at my inordinate supply of jacket 308 bullets and ask myself if this will last me the rest of my life or if something bad happened and couldn't get anymore bullets at least I could cast them. Hence the aqusition of the new rifles.
So it went from. I couldn't see the front sights on an AR-15 to, I couldn't see the front sights on my M-14. Most days off a bench, ragged hole groups at 100 yard. Not now. I can barely see the trigger.
I do have two Marlin 45-70 that I put Aim Point scopes on and that works real well.
The scarey thing is I am contemplating fabricating a dovetail picatinny bracket to mount the new Aimpoint Micro Dot scopes on my Winchester 1886 rifles.
GACK!!! Yes please no tar and feathering today. Just playing with the idea.

The operation to get my eyes fixed looks nasty and I would want to be put to sleep.......
My distant vision is very good though.



.

[Dale53]

I have moderate to severe vision problems. I have switched to Red Dot scopes for my handguns and am completely "back in the game". Hopefully, something similar will work for you. The important thing is to not lose faith and to keep trying.

Dale53

[JohnH]

Dale 53,

My eyes are doing ok, have taken up a return to shootzen handguns this year, a Taurus Gaucho in 357 and a Taurus Tracker in 45 ACP. A friend traded an NEF single shootzen rifle in 44 Mag for a big batch of cast boolits. I still have trouble with changing light conditions, but am enjoying irons as often as I can, but figure the time is coming that optics will be required on all I shoot. A small price to pay for getting to enjoy getting older.

[tomf52]

Have gone to Marble's Folding Tang sights on my 1894 Marlin leverguns and i am very happy with the clarity that the diopter effect of the peep offers. Another very inexpensive aid for eyeglass wearers is to cut squares of black electrical tape and punch the center of them with a cleanly ground pin punch on a block of hardwood. Cuts a nice clean round hole for the diopter effect. Trial and error will tell you exactly what size you need your hole to be. Pin punches, nails,welding rod pieces can all be "sharpened" to create exactly what you need. I make up a bunch and store them on a piece of plastic such as an old credit card in my shooting bag.

When I posted this morning I did not realize it was an old thread I had already put my two cents into. Sorry. One additional comment - At fifty yards with my 1894C Marlin in .357 I shot a five shot group that was a clorleaf with the Marble's peep. Haven't even shot this well with glass! Some luck in there I guess.

[Bass Ackward]

I find a lot of what people believe are opens or eye issues is really light .... and the lack of use. Fear that comes from having used glass. At least it was for me. So I just painted the pig too.

Vision problems are truely vision problems, but our fore fathers used opens all their lives as it was all they had. There is a psychological crutch that comes from any type of glass that makes you believe that you just HAVE TO have glass. Much as the fear of falling eventually grips older people into using walkers long before it's time. Exercise.

The answer for most of us is light and .... frequency of use. I like opens with more light around the back sight. Larger peeps, wider rear notches. Not as precision on a target, but it works to paint the pig for longer in the day. And surprisingly, I still shoot them fairly well when I try. Just takes a larger, brighter target today than it used to.

[JRR]

I have excellent long distance vision and horrendous close up vision. My reading glasses are 2.75 correction but my distance is 20/20. My optometrist gave me a prescription for shooting. The polycarbonate lenses have no correction on the left side and a 1.5 correction on the right with the focal point being approx. 36" instead of the normal 18-24 in. for reading. There is enough correction to clean up the front sight but not enough to blur the target too much.

I have peep sights on all my rifles which go from a 28" barreled 22 to 16" levers and 23" military bolt actions. I can usually out shoot most of my buddies and their scopes in 3 position matches at the 50 or 100 distance (low blood pressure and shallow breathing), as long as I keep the diabetes in check.
Jeff

[Just Duke]

I have excellent long distance vision and horrendous close up vision. My reading glasses are 2.75 correction but my distance is 20/20. My optometrist gave me a prescription for shooting. The polycarbonate lenses have no correction on the left side and a 1.5 correction on the right with the focal point being approx. 36" instead of the normal 18-24 in. for reading. There is enough correction to clean up the front sight but not enough to blur the target too much.

Jeff

This is what Bill Bagwell told me to do. He says it works for him.
On my Sharps aquisition I am playing with the idea of contacting BJ Jones and having him make me up a lense for rear peap with the proper focal length.

[Just Duke]

This should be a sticky if I could see it. :(

[Nueces]

Jeff, my eyes are similar to yours. While trying to figure out an eyeglass lens that worked with rifle sights, I tried a simple drugstore pair of 1.00 glasses and found that a Merit adjustable rear aperture and a sharp front post let me get under an MOA. I had thought I was done when my near vision started to go.

You can learn a lot by fooling around with these cheap glasses ($10 - $15 a pair). I've made custom glasses by buying matched frames in different diopters and swapping lenses (the frames have to secure the lenses with screws, of course). Simply removing the left lens from the 1.00 pair works great for me on the bench. I do have to put on my reading glasses for anything up close. And then there's the pair for handguns. But I can still shoot.

Mark


I have excellent long distance vision and horrendous close up vision. My reading glasses are 2.75 correction but my distance is 20/20. My optometrist gave me a prescription for shooting. The polycarbonate lenses have no correction on the left side and a 1.5 correction on the right with the focal point being approx. 36" instead of the normal 18-24 in. for reading. There is enough correction to clean up the front sight but not enough to blur the target too much.

I have peep sights on all my rifles which go from a 28" barreled 22 to 16" levers and 23" military bolt actions. I can usually out shoot most of my buddies and their scopes in 3 position matches at the 50 or 100 distance (low blood pressure and shallow breathing), as long as I keep the diabetes in check.
Jeff

[Vintage BPCS]

Aging Eyes:
I to have vision difficulties with seeing the iron sights at age 60ish. Unfortunately I am near sighted and need specs to see beyond my nose, but things get better with age. Don't need specs to read close anymore. I have investigated the topic for the past year and found some very good articles in BPC News and Single Shot Exch. You hinted at the type of rifle you shoot. If that or any rifle can be adapted to the receiver peep sight and globe type front sight your ability to focal will greatly improve. I have found that peeps that attach directly to the specs lens are cumbersome and unsuitable for hunting or woods work. The receiver sight seems to be faster on point and for me more accurate, allowing for a full field of vision. The receiver sight allows for aperture changes which correct for light conditions to bring the sight picture into focal. Hadely and Merit adjustable apertures allow for instant changes. I have been training myself to shoot with both eyes open while sighting thru my dominate eye, and this has improved my ability to see targets at most distances. Lastly, consider having a special pair of glasses made to your prescription but with no bifocal etc. and have the Optometrist move the center of focal (for the sighting eye) over toward the edge of the lens (nose side), this I have been told moves the line sight closer to the shooting position with the way one holds the rifle.

[Bret4207]

This should be a sticky if I could see it. :(

Your wish is my command Dukey Baby!:-D Whenever I see your handle I think of the Duke character in Doonsbury!

[Alvin in AZ]

This is what I fiNgured out on my own...
YMMV :)

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/peepL.jpg

The screw-in peep is just for the picture, that ain't the one i really use. :)

That one is drilled out with a nice new 3/32" drill bit clamped into some
Vise-Grips while the peep is chucked into the drill and spun. Blued using Brownell's OxPho-Blue.

That's the same hole size as the one i use except for the large diameter
"hood" is still on the one shown. That peep is about .375" (3/8") in diameter
and the one i actually use is closer to .300" after I removed the "hood".

Doesn't sound important but in the actual use of the things in "any" light
conditions with "camouflaged" animals the target and sights are easier
to see than with either the full sized peep insert and/or without any peep
insert.

That 30-30 is used almost excusively for jack rabbit shooting and it has
"splattered;)" well over a 1000 of them.

I'm figuring this isn't the end of experimentation but at least starting
down the right road? :)

Alvin in AZ
ps- that used to be a Lyman 66a ;)

[badgeredd]

I modified an extra peep to fit my SKS and left the original iron on the front. Glory be, I can see!!!!! I have added a bright yellow ring on the inside of the peep on my 1895 Marlin which helped in lowered light. Now I am thinking that I will either get a tang sight for my Glenfield 30 or make a peep that fits into the original dove tail slot for the rear sight. I do know that a peep type sight wirks well for me. at least for hunting and casual target shooting. At 60 the ole eyes aren't as good but the focussing effect of a peeper works for me.

[Alvin in AZ]

...thinking that I will either get a tang sight for my Glenfield 30 or make a peep
that fits into the original dove tail slot for the rear sight.

"WGRS" Williams guide receiver sight fits the little scope grooves.
It's about as low as they can make them but a lot of the time the front sight needs to be raised. :/

On my old German pellet gun I bought the tallest front sight Brownell's sold and started there since the comb on the stock is so stinkin high. The pellet gun was actually made for scope use. Bought it in '68 while i was earing 50c an hour. :)
Then went with the WGRS and has worked out great. :)

Anyway it's cool you'd consider making a peep sight! :)

I made one for a Mauser '88 one time (the action was made in 1889).
(8x57 16+1/4 inch '98 barrel screwed into the action, pistol grip, no buttstock)
A friend at work made it from "spare parts" and gave it to me. :)

I experimented with the height and then drilled a large diameter hole to match
the bolt's upper radius then a small diameter hole next to it the distance I had
figured out it needed.

(then removed everything that didn't look like a peep sight ;)

Lucked out! it worked out great! :)
One flathead screw and some blackened Acra-Glas did the job holding it in place.

No pictures, it got stolen. :/

It was more-fun-to-shoot than a guy would think I'd be. :)
Cases poured full of IMR 7828 powder made some think they were shooting a cannon. ;)
...and it wasn't as strong as a 454 Casull LOL :)


Alvin in AZ

[Brownie]

I do exactly the same thing as tomf52 except I cut the unused side off.

Brownie

[TAWILDCATT]

has any one tried CLAROXON.it is advertised as eye enhancer for shooters.me I had both eyes operated for cataracts.what a diferrence.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[Doc1]

I'm 51 and my near vision started going south at 42. No horrible vision problems (yet) just the normal age-related stuff. I need reading glasses to decipher newsprint.

Some things that work for me? Scopes - obviously - but I'm really an iron sights man and have tried to accommodate my poorer vision within the iron world.

Peep sights are great, but they need to be mounted towards the rear of the receiver. The replacement peeps designed to replace the barrel-mounted v-notch sights on .mil rifles have been disappointing. I mounted one of the MOJO rear peeps on one of my K98s and was extremely unhappy with it. Then I added MOJO's front ghost ring sight and things improved considerably! The MOJO's quality was fine, but again we are confronted with too much eye relief (distance) between the shooter's eye and the peep sight. This does not maximize the aperture effect of a peep sight. Next I mounted a Lyman peep on another K98's receiver and kept the stock front sight. That combo works great, but of course I had to drill and tap the receiver to mount it. You might not want to do that on a collectible!

The other option which I've tried with some success is simply to open up the v-notch on open sights or re-contour it into a "U" with jewelers files. A fatter front post helps a lot, too.

As another poster noted, I can still shoot my M-44s fairly with their stock sights. They have a large notch on the rear sight and a fat front post. Basically, I only see shadows and blobs, but I can align those shadows and blobs and achieve reasonable accuracy. You have to be able to see it to use it and at least the big notches and front sights allow that much!

Best regards
Doc

[Three44s]

Well Doc ... it sounds like you have run the gammot .......

The best way to use a peep sight is to maximize sighting radius and that involves drilling tapping milsurps that are not already endowed with them.

So here is another entirely different tact ........

A "non-invasive" scout mount ..... weaver rail and then mount a Bushy or EOTech holosight on it!

I have two Bushies and swear by them ...... no magnification and thus no eye relief issues ... HUGE field of view ....

I run the dot brightness down to just what I can see and it "shrinks" the dot for more precision.

Three 44s

[JSnover]

I have two Bushies and swear by them ...... no magnification and thus no eye relief issues ... HUGE field of view ....

I run the dot brightness down to just what I can see and it "shrinks" the dot for more precision.

Three 44s

I'll second that! I don't care much for gadgets but after I tried the Bushnell holosight I bought one and mounted it on my FAL. Love it!
A few years ago I bought a sporterized Enfield in 45-70 with a williams aperture mounted just ahead of the chamber. That little tiny hole was too far away for me to use it. So I removed the insert. Works like a ghost ring now. It's easy to 'find the hole' and as accurate as I'll ever need it to be.

[Doc1]

In my previous post I mentioned some of the mods I'd done on K98s to accommodate peep sights. I just reread that post and realized I'd neglected to mention just about my favorite rifle! The slightly weird Spanish FR-8 carbine!

Any of you guys with fading close up vision who like Mausers should consider this little rifle. I love 98s and like the 7.92x57...but I also like .308. My happiest combination is a 98 in 7.62 NATO and those are relatively scarce. The FR-8 has been the best .mil conversion I've found so far. The FR-8 is an official Spanish arsenal 7.62 conversion and not a bubba job. They used their M43 8mm Mausers as the basis and as the M43 is a standard pattern K98, parts commonality is a piece of cake.

Most .mil Mausers have terrible sights for anyone with poor closeup vision. To me, the single best thing about the FR-8 is its sighting system. It's just about the only .mil Mauser I'm aware of that has a stock, rear mounted peep sight! And yes, it's weird. The receiver holds a little housing with a perforated wheel. These perforations are your apertures for different distances! Turn the wheel to your desired setting and it's solidly held in place by a ball type detent. The sight picture is puuuurfect for me and my 51YO eyes! The front sight is a CETME type eccentric post which is screwed up or down (need the sight tool) for elevation and to make modest windage adjustments. I've never ordered the tool, as mine was dead on.

The sights alone were enough to sell me on the rifle, but there's lots of other features to recommend it. As previously noted, it's built on a standard M98 action and is strong! Unlike the similar FR-7 which was built on an M93 action, I have no hesitation about running full house loads through my FR-8. The carbine length was achieve in part by using CETME barrels in the conversion, but unlike regular CETME barrels, these were manufactured with UNfluted chambers and are easy on brass. I don't know if it's typical of the breed, but my FR-8 has a very tight chamber and this helps extend the life of my brass, as well. Though this is a very individual thing, despite its weird looks, the FR-8 balances and fits me well, comes to the shoulder quickly and naturally and the sight picture immediately fills the eye.

If any of you older - or vision-impaired - guys like Mausers, next time you're at a show, try to find an FR-8. You just might fall in love

Best regards
Doc

[Three44s]

You've just described my favorite iron rear sight![smilie=w:



That's the rear sight similar to the G3's and Cetme assault rifles ....... and the last time I picked up a Shotgun news ..... they were available.

I've got two complete units for future projects and one on a HK 91 ......

....... yes, a grand rear appeture sight!!!

Grand indeed!

The same system was also used on the MP5 ...... however ...... they used a drum with larger peep holes because it's more of a pistol.

Three 44s

[jsizemore]

I talked to a fella that sold iron sights for handguns years ago when my vision started causing me problems when I was approaching 50. I knew he was past 60 and would have some sage advice. He told me to go to the discount store, take your pick, and go to the cheap reading glasses and find the pair that will let you see your thumbnail clearly when you have your arm extended in front of you. Now buy additional glasses that are 1 to 2 powers stronger and milder than the one that let you see your thumbnail clearly. I found that 1.75 worked for me. So I bought glasses 1.25,1.5, 1.75,2.0, and 2.25. I use Ready Readers from Family Dollar, $1/pair. Attach your Merit to your glasses and find the pair and Merit addjustment that allows you to see the sights and a CONSISTENT target. Clear sights are the most important. He told me the target was a blob but he held on the same place on the blob. The fella that told me about this set a record at the Cholla Challenge with an iron sight XP using this method when he was well past 60. Depending on how bright the sunlight is determines which glasses you need to wear. Might help for you. Sure helped me shoot irons longer. If you need a new challenge, try smallbore rifle silhouette. That uses a lead boolit.

[Base534]

I know this an old thread but i have the same problems at age 50, front sight isnt sharp for me anymore. What i found instead of using the store bought readers or those irritating bifocals is a whole lense magnifier. They are safety glasses and you can get them in a selection of powers. I ordered mine in +1.50 and they are great.
Heres a link if anyone is interested :
http://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/category/Magnifying-Safety-Glasses.html

[hiram]

Base---

Will these glasses magnify at a farther distance than reading glasses?

I found what looks like the same magnifiers for less $ and a greater choice of mag power at http://www.oxarc.com/desc.ydev?prod_id=17413

[3006guns]

Regarding peep sights on a k98......I can't remember who made it, but I have a sight that uses the ejector box screw as a mount with a bridge over the receiver. You just remove the screw and mount the sight with the longer one...easily reversed. Works slick and I wish someone would make them again!

[Dale53]

I have pretty much changed over to Red Dot sights for my handguns. I have to shoot with my OFF eye (right handed shooting, left eye to look at the sights).

A few months ago I got a couple of new iron sight handguns that I wish to use "as is" a Ruger 50th Anniversary Flattop.44 magnum and a Ruger Flattop .44 Lipsey Special. I bought a pair of clear clip on's (work just like flip up sun glasses but are a clear magnification lens). The power recommended to me is 1.5 power which is what I have. It was suggested that 1.5 power be used for two handed use (the gun is closer to the eye). It works near perfect for me. The front sight is sharp and the target is somewhat blurred. You need to focus on the front sight, NOT the target for best results even if you have perfect vision. A very slight misalignment of the front sight and you shoot a miss. I small misalignment of the target and you shoot a nine, as an example.

Base534 gave a link for inexpensive clip ons that will pretty much solve you problem (if you insist on iron sights[smilie=1:). I have shot some pretty decent targets while using these:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/img063.jpg

Standing at 25 yards with the .44 Lipsey Special.
It is NOT as easy to do as using a Red Dot but it sure beats MISSING.

What is nice is that I clip them onto my regular glasses, shoot, then flip them up so see "normally".

I have had cataract operations in both eyes. My left eye is pretty dern good but suffers from lack of near vision.

FWIW
Dale53

[Base534]

Well its tough for me to say what they will do for anyone else, but my big problem is up close, not far away. They work good for me is all i can really say, sorry i cant be more helpful.
The glasses in your link do look the same though and are cheaper. I may pick up a few pairs as i use them while reloading also.

[Beekeeper]

Dale,
Do you have any problems with sunshine giving you headaches?
I have had both eyes done (cataract removal) and find that I am much more light sensitive than I was before.
It seems that every time I go outside without sunglasses I get a massive headache, other than that my vision is near perfert 20/30 and my reading glassed are almost clear glass.

[MT Gianni]

http://www.hlberg.dk/eurosimulator/shooting_usa.html
Interesting link to improve iron sight picture.

[Dale53]

Beekeeper;
I do believe that my eyes are more light sensitive. I wear my prescription sunglasses when driving (almost religiously) but I use the clear glass ones without problems when shooting (we have a covered firing point which helps somewhat). My vision is definitely better (not a ton better, but better) when I use the clear lenses (a small iris opening sharpens the vision, just like a camera).

Headaches are mostly a "thing of the past" since I retired...

Dale53

[Wayne S]

A challange, ?? my picture shows my shooting stance useing 10" contenders in 22 LR and 22 Hornet used in IHMSA small bore and field pistol comp. tarhets are at 25,50,75 and 100 yards The rear sight is a Williams base with a Merit Adj. appature.

[stephen perry]

I have a Winchester 69 Match 22 Rifle. It has factory installed Lyman 57EW peep sights. I have the tin with all the choices of front sight inserts. I chose the front post that matches what is similar to all my other front metal sights.

My first micrometer sights. Makes shooting easier for me having to only place the front sight on the target would be good for not so good eyes.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR :brokenima

[loumg]

I have used this sight on my M38, M44 without the bayonet.
http://www.mojosights.com/mosin_nagant.html

I shot Mil Surps with original open sights and find the "ghost ring" sights to be the easiest on my eyes. 20-40 far vision but cant see the front sight near vision