K98 long throat

[frugal]

I've been working on a K98 project where I'm unable to set the bullet out far enough to engage the rifling. Im using 323471 and have to seat out so far that the end of the case is in the middle of the first band above the check. This make them fragile to handle. My O.A.L is 3.365! At this length, Im still about a 1/16 away from the rifling.

The question is this; was the K98 originally manufactured with a very long throat or is this a sign of serious wear?
The rifling appears to be very strong aside from some pitting.

I thought I remember reading somewhere that K98 barrels were designed with FMJs approaching 200 gr in mind

Thanks
Frugal

[uscra112]

Only know what I've read, going back to an article on throating by Ed Harris. Which is that the K98 had a very long, slow-tapered forcing cone for a throat, made necessary when they changed to the deeper rifling and the .323 spitzer bullet. That change increased the engraving force required, so they throated them that way to keep pressure down. Your boolit has long ogive, which isn't filling that throat. A boolit with a longer straight body and a shorter ogive would fit better.

Or you might size the 323471 as big as you can without cramping the neck in the chamber, seat 'em deeper, and let 'em jump.

[shredder]

If you can find one, the LEE 8mm Karabiner mould will get you a throat filling boolit. Mine drop at 237 grains, and I have no trouble getting engagement with teh rifling. The trouble in guns without a worn throat is seating the boolit without burying it inside the case. If you like, shoot me a PM and I will mail you off a couple of dozen to try.

[jonk]

First, long throats on 98s of all flavors are not uncommon; some were cut that way, some are just worn from hard use.

Second, there are some LONG and heavy 8mms that fill the throat- 8mm Karabiner, 8mm Maximum, and some others. While these do a good job filling the throat, I personally find that they are TOO heavy to reliably group well. Sometimes they do, don't get me wrong; I have over 20 8mm rifles and the heavy molds really shine in 3 or 4 of them. Otherwise, they just don't seem to get very good results (for me). I've found that the best compromise was to use a fat bullet (Lee's .329 for instance) if it chambers, and let the long 'forcing cone' throat squeeze it down. While not contacting the lands, this makes up for the jump in some other ways, i.e faster support as it it starts down the barrel, and is still light enough to give good stability and thus good accuracy.

[Larry Gibson]

I've found it generally takes the 323470 seated with the GC at the base of the neck for he front driving band to touch or come close to the leade in most milsurp M98s. Not wear but just made with long throats. The 323471 is lso an excellent bullet and if sized to the throat diameter and also seated so the GC is at the bottom of the neck is a very accurate bullet in the 8x57. Don't worry about setting the bullet out to the leade as with it being a milsurp with issue sights it won't know nor can it tell the difference. My very accurate M24/47 with a 6X scope doesn't know nor can it tell either. Just size to the throat diameter, seat

Larry Gibson

[Gunnut 45/454]

I bought a '38 vintage 237 Russian capture that was like that! Also found out the barrel was shot out, could never get better then 8" groups at 50 yards. So I found a gent that had a nice '42 BNZ barreled action. Problem solved!

[390ish]

My 24/47 really shoots the loverin type lyman 160 well with Winchester 748 powder.

[frugal]

I finally had a chance to see what this would do using 16/2400 and the 323471 about 1/16 away from engaging the rifling. At a hundred yards, its giving approx. 5 inches. Not sure thats good or bad, but probably typical of most milsurps. I forgot how horrible mauser sights are, especially on an overcast day with little light. I know these rifles are not know for extreme accuracy, but whats a realistic expectation? Thanks for all the great ideas and advice!

[shredder]

With those sights you are probably right. I have a lyman peep on mine and a front ramp with a gold bead. Now I can group 2" or less if I do my job right.

[jonk]

With standard military sights, and a really nice load, I can usually mange about 1.5" with a 98. That would be my realistic expectation if barrel is in good shape and bedding is decent. Now that said, while i have several 8mm cast loads that will manage 3", I've not found one yet that will match my best j-word loads.... the quest continues!

[gew98]

Frugal ; the typical german service rifle in 7,92 of any flavor typically was manufactured with 2 to 3 calibers length of throat. Hence the original S patronen being seated so very little in the case. Damaged/worn throats in german 7,92's generally make it a single shot "soft loader".

[UBER7MM]

Frugal,

If your shooting cast bullets, you may consider nose sizing the your lead. Here is a link on this page from a few months ago.

Nose Sizing a Boolit for Longer Cartridge OAL Question?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?158438-Nose-Sizing-a-Boolit-for-Longer-Cartridge-OAL-Question

I hope this helps,