Range report II on Lyman Great Plains rifle

[Maven]

I had a chance to retest the Ly. Gr. Plns. today with Ly. RB's (.488"), T/C RB's (.491") and a 5 Lee .495" (~.496") RB's with T/C patches (I need to measure their thickness.) and 70 gr. Pyro. RS. The smaller balls were a pleasure to start and seat, but accuracy was less than impressive. I wish I had brought more of the Lee .495's because the potential for accuracy was certainly there, but they required a plastic hammer to start. In spite of the so-so accuracy @ 50 yds., I learned that this rifle fouls quickly, i.e., after 5-6 shots and I need a larger, more contrasty target...at least some of the time. After those results, I was a bit discouraged, but figured I'd repeat the original test: Ly. & T/C RB's + .018" patching cut at the muzzle, but with a larger target. I only fired 3 of the Lyman's, but managed to put 2 almost in the same hole. The T/C's were even better: 5 touching. I have a picture of it, but will resize it and try to post it in a few minutes.

[Buckshot]

..............Sounds like that Lyman is trying to be pleasant :-). A "Willing Rifle"? Have you chronographed any yet?

...............Buckshot

[Maven]

Yeah, it's pleasant enough,* but somewhat fussy about ball size & patch thickness. I'm going to try a .495" RB with T/C pre-cut & .018" patches cut at the muzzle (as per .44man's suggestion) next. Not to change the subject, but I was casting with my new 30-150 TL-PB yesterday and decided to to cast 10 CB's from each cavity, mike them and weigh them (too much time on my hands?). What I discovered was not exactly earth-shaking, but cavs. 1 & 2 cast identically @ 140.1gr. while cavs. 3 - 6 were a bit heavier, but virtually the same at 140.7gr. I guess I'll be casting & separating by cavity from now on.

*My T/C Hawken was pleasant enough too, but wasn't designed to be fired off-hand: Ill-balanced and not enough drop in the stock. I sold it on E-Bay the other day.

[RugerFan]

Maven,
As long as you're willing to forsake the holy black, you might want to try 777. I got noticeably better accuracy with my .50 cal GPR after switching from Pyrodex.

[Blammer]

you plan on trying any Maxi balls?

[ktw]

...I wish I had brought more of the Lee .495's because the potential for accuracy was certainly there, but they required a plastic hammer to start.

Use thinner patches. If nothing else, scrounge around the house for something very tightly woven and all cotton. Something in the .010-.012 range. One of the wife's near new pillow cases for example. ;-)

-ktw

[mooman76]

If you can find an old cotton dress shirt, they are usually pretty thin.

[Maven]

All, Thanks for the advice, which I truly appreciate!

Ruger Fan: I haven't forsaken BP, it's just hard to come by. In fact, all types of gunpowder are hard to find in my neck of the woods now that the last gunshop has closed.

Blammer, No plans to use Maxi-Balls for 2 reasons: (1) The twist is 1:66, which is too slow to stabilize them. (2) I don't have a .50cal. MB mold and wasn't planning on purchasing one. Indeed, my two .45cal. MB and one .45cal. REAL are on E-Bay right now.

ktw & mooman, I have a bit of thin patching material, but I'll look around in my rag bag first and a fabric store second if the thinner patches work well with the .495" RB.

Paul

[Dale53]

I don't use "used rag patches" in my muzzle loaders. If they have any age on them they seem to lack strength.

My preference for patching is "Pocket Drill" from the fabic store. Take a pair of mic's with you the be sure what you are getting. Then size the ball to the patch size. I use pure lead balls that I cast or use Hornady's swaged balls of appropriate size. For matches I use a ball starter (commercial hex aluminum one) and load tight. For hunting, I use a slightly looser combination for easier field loading from the bag.

I buy a yard of patching and use my wife's rotary cutter (she is a quilter) and cut the patching in strips. I then use Wonder Lube patching lube (or similar), spread it on with a spatula, roll the strips into rolls, place them in a zip lock bag (leave the bag open lying on it's side to let out steam) and just run for a few seconds. Just enough heat to melt the lube into the patch material. It will be perfectly uniform with NO grease standing proud of the material if the correct amount is applied. I cut the patches when loading whether at a match or hunting. Keep them in the plastic bag, sealed, in between uses and they won't dry out.

You can try the same method with Moose Milk (10/1 water and NAPA Water Soluble Oil) but you don't use the micro wave with Moose Milk. Just soak the patches (short strips) in the solution and then press them between boards in a vice until all excess Moose Milk is squeezed from the patches. Keep in a zip lock bag to keep from drying out.

You can always use commercial prepared patches but I have always been kind of a DIY kind of a guy. After all, that's what muzzle loading is pretty much about.

Works for me!
Dale53

[RBak]

Maven, I have been following your thread on the GPR with interest and, to me at least, it seems you have just not hit on the "right combination" for that rifle....yet.

I have owned several GPR over the years, and every one was a tack driver, if I did my part.
Some right out of the box, others took a bit of tinkering with powder charge, lube and patch thickness.
Having read many of your posts over the years, I feel quite sure there is no magic bits of information I can offer that you haven't already thought of.

Still yet, I will throw this out.........My best shooting experience, with every GPR I have ever owned, was when I was using real Black Powder and LeHigh lube......go figure!

Having said that, I must say that I know how hard it is for many people to get the real stuff, and how they have to settle with, and make do with what they can get. My heart goes out to these guys because I have been in that very same place, several times.
I also know all the stories about how much cleaner the other powders are, along with less fouling and more shots between wipings, etc, etc. And, all these stories have merit. At least IMHO.
But, for reasons that I am not quite astute enough to figure out, most GPR's will certainly shoot much better with real black.
I can't say that same thing for my T/C's, CVA, or any of the other muzzleloaders I own, as they all seem to shoot about the same no matter what I use in them. That is, nothing seems to stand out, if you know what I mean.
I guess I own about a dozen or so muzzleloaders and they are all fairly "powder friendly" with about everything I've tried....all of 'em except that dang blasted GPR.

So, my advise, if such can be said, is to hang in there until you can get some real black to try, it just may save you a lot of dead-end experimenting in the long run.

Respectfully, Russ...

[Maven]

Dale53, Thanks for the tips! Btw, the thin patching I've used came from a fabric store and looks like (is?) thin pillow ticking (has the same printed pattern). My patching material generally comes from a fabric store. You'd be surprised at the looks I get when I come in with a micrometer, but store personnel are most helpful when I tell them why I use it. I'll look for pocket drill next: Does it come in different thicknesses? Once I get the right patch & ball combination, I'll do as you suggest with the lube.

RussB, Pyro. works well enough, but in spite of Hodgdon's hype, it DOES foul bores. I have some GOII FFFg on hand and will revert to it once I deplete my ever-diminshing supply Pyro. Right now my only source of BP* is a competitive shooter who's a member of our gun club.


*I live in a condo. whose rules prohibit storing ANY flammable substance (gasoline, paint thinner, turpentine, gunpowders, etc. ) indoors. I generally ignore this, but I really don't want a case of BP around when 6 lbs. would suffice.

[Maven]

Target (I hope) from July 17

[Dale53]

Maven;
One thing that I neglected to mention about patching. Material from a fabric store sometimes says "100% cotton" (which is absolutely necessary unless you are using linen" when it is NOT 100% cotton. The field test is to take a little strip (ask the clerk to cut it off for you) OUTSIDE and light it with a match. If there is any synthetic content it will melt and you will know right away. Cotton just burns. This is a positive test, easy done and insures that you are getting what you are paying for. Melted synthetic material inside a muzzle loader barrel is not something you will appreciate.

The target looks like you are on the way. Now you just have to refine...:mrgreen:

Dale53

[piwo]

.....
Blammer, No plans to use Maxi-Balls for 2 reasons: (1) The twist is 1:66, which is too slow to stabilize them.....
Paul

I've been experimenting with TC Maxi's with my .54 flinter since January. I shot yesterday for 5.5 hours at my range. At 50 yards, I had numerous targets where I'd have 3 shots with two touching and one just off the other two, and the other two shots opening the group up 2, sometimes 3 inches.

At 100yards, the best group was about 4.5 inches. Not stellar, but then again, minute of deer anyway. I'm not shooting competitions, I'm shooting for hunting. And at 100yds, not one of my shots fired would have missed, and none would have been anything less then lethal. My barrel is 1-66 as well, but I've continued to experiment. I'm shooting projectiles significantly heavier then round ball, and with more momentum. I like that. Not that round ball haven't killed ever single deer I ever hit with them, but hey, it's all about contemplating the "if''s".

I've decided not to dismiss anything out of hand without experimenting. The Minnie’s I've cast have been a dismal disaster, and these were designed for barrels of this twist. I've tried them paper patched and naked, with Crisco/beeswax lube. I've tried them with charges ranging from 50grains fffg to 90 fffg. NONE shoots anything better then @ 5 inches at 50 yards. At 50 yards yesterday, paper patched and lubed, the 4 shots at 50 yards were about 7 inch group!

Just my experiences.............

[Maven]

Dale, I've learned to avoid fabrics made with synthetics when it comes to guns and casting. Before I began using welders' gloves, I wore worn-out winter gloves to protect my hands. I.e., until I accidentally poured some hot alloy on them and they melted, leaving me to contend with 2 burns. I deep-sixed those gloves immediately and made my way to the local welder's supply dealer to purchase gauntlet-type leather gloves. Although I haven't had the distinct pleasure of fouling a bore with synthetic residue, I 'll do as you say and make doubly sure my patching material is 100% cotton. Thanks for the tip!