OK!!! why can't I load these cases ( pulling hair out )

[gray wolf]

Men, my friend gave be a handful of bran new 44 Mag Winchester brass, about 20
and 20 Nosler 240 grain J-word HP. There is no doubt this is new brass.
I primed the cases, I sized the cases with my RCBS carbide die, and used the standard RCBS expander plug, It's about .427---The bullets are perfect .429 Also new.
It is impossible to seat a bullet, they go in about 1/32" and will not go any deeper.
I then worked up to a .429 expander plug and they still would not go into the cases,
it's like the cases were made of steel. I finally got three to seat but wow was it
difficult. I deemed them unsafe to shoot and used the hammer bullet puller to remove them, I banged that thing to the point it was scary and finally the lead core broke loose and shed itself from the Jacket, leaving the empty copper jacket stuck firmly in the case . What's going on ? I never had a bullet that I couldn't seat in a case.
I did the same thing with a few of my old cases using the rcbs .427 expander and everything was as it should be.

[MT Chambers]

Your seating die is not set up properly, and your crimp shoulder inside the die is preventing the case from going any further into the die, and will prolly shave lead and crush cases. Your seating stem must completely act on the bullet before the crimp feature acts on the case mouth. Is this making sense?

[gray wolf]

No it does not,
My dies have not been moved in my turret press. I can take one of my old cases, prime it, size it,
expand the mouth and seat a bullet with no problem. I seat and crimp with two different dies.
When I try one of these new cases it's impossible to seat a bullet.
I mean they are tight, even with a .4295 expander ball, the bullets are .429 you would think they would just slip in. I have loaded many lead bullets with this set up and I have NO problems.

[Blammer]

I would try backing your seating die out about 4 turns, then screwing down the seating plug and trying that.

[chevyiron420]

The only thing I can think of is the brass may be thicker than the others, causing the mouth to pinch down in your seater. This happened to me once with a lyman seater that was very tight.

[Bad Water Bill]

Quit pulling your hair out.

The boss says you have none to spare.:kidding:

[Edubya]

I have to ream the brass when it is brand new.

EW

[w30wcf]

I would try backing your seating die out about 4 turns, then screwing down the seating plug and trying that.

+1. Sounds like the neck diameter in your seating die is smaller than what the finished od is of the cartridges you are loading. Perhaps your new brass has a thicker wall....it won't take much.... even .001" can make a difference.

w30wcf

[largom]

I would try backing your seating die out about 4 turns, then screwing down the seating plug and trying that.


What Blammer said! Also check the length and thickness of the new brass.

Larry

[gray wolf]

The length is the same as my old fired brass, 1.280 the outside diameter is the same as the old brass after sizing, the wall thickness is about the same as my old Winchester brass, about .012
They just will not seat ! if they do ( with brute force )they cannot be pulled, they do not move .001 the lead core separates and comes right out of the jacket and falls into the bullet puller leaving the copper jacket stuck in the case, and I mean stuck.
Even when I use my biggest expander ball .4295 --You would think that would be overly big for a .429 bullet. When I try my old cases they load as they should. There is plenty of room in the seating die. Something is going on with this brass.

[Dave C.]

Brand new cases load much easier if you tumble them first.

Dave C.

[gray wolf]

I can try tumbling them,
what does that do to the brass ? I do notice a white film on the inside of the brass.

[engineer401]

Why did you size new brass? I never sized new brass as it has been the right size to begin with. There have been several brands of brass. They all worked fine.

When I started reloading I used a single-stage press. I never crimp and seat in the same stroke. I didn't have any issues with bullet seating using the old RCBS steel dies I started with. I later purchased carbide RCBS 357 dies and developed seating problems as you described on reloaded brass. I put them on the shelf and used the steel dies until I purchased a Dillon 550. Bullet seating became easier when I used the carbide RCBS die in a Dillon press with a Dillon expander. I also have a Lee sizer and a used CH sizer from eBay. Both dies leave the case larger in diameter than the ones sized with the RCBS die. The inside diameter of the RCBS die is 0.371", Lee is 0.372" and the Ch is 0.374". I called CH to inquire of purchasing a new carbide die with an inside diameter 0.374". They don't make them that way and was told the die must be from the 70s. They looked through a box of rejects and found one of the diameter I wanted and sold it to me. Now I have a set on a toolhead for both 38 Special and 357 Magnum. I use the Lee die for 380 acp. The RCBS dies are gone. The others may be correct and it is a seating setup. If that is not the case, I recommend you check the dimensions of the dies to insure they will suit your needs.

[geargnasher]

Your first mistake is trying to use J-words! :kidding:

That's pretty tough if you actually pull the core out if the bullets in the inertial puller trying to unseat the bullet. That tells me the whole problem is friction with something inside those new cases. You might try marking the inside of the new brass with pencil or maybe even putting a film of some sort of lube in there. Definitely sounds like something about the surface of the new brass is wanting to weld itself to the jackets.

Gear

[engineer401]

When I try my old cases they load as they should. There is plenty of room in the seating die. Something is going on with this brass.

It appears you have everything in hand if this is related to the brass only. Why not get rid of the 20 brass cases?

[gray wolf]

It appears you have everything in hand if this is related to the brass only. Why not get rid of the 20 brass cases?
Yes I could dump them, I was just so happy to have a few new cases,
I wonder if a little steel wool or a brass brush on the inside would help ?
Anyway thanks for the help.

[engineer401]

Yes I could dump them, I was just so happy to have a few new cases,
I wonder if a little steel wool or a brass brush on the inside would help ?
Anyway thanks for the help.

New and free. I get that. I really do. Dad taught me well. Please keep us posted on what you find. This may not be isolated.

[gray wolf]

Like I said the inside of the cases have whitish look, like a film of sorts. I wonder if this brass saw some kind of acid bath for cleaning and the inside got etched, that would create a very hard to see
Rough surface. I probly explained that wrong.

[ironhead7544]

You could try annealing the cases.

[deltaenterprizes]

Clean the inside of the necks with a 44 cal bore brush in a drill to remove the whitish residue then anneal, should solve your problem.
The white stuff could be grit from some type of polish , some graphite applied to the inside of the case neck by rubbing a pencil inside the neck after leaning will help also.
Graphite is left behind after firing because powder granules are coated with it to make the powder flow better.

[lead4me]

Hey Sam, I sent you a PM...25 New Star-line's & Hornady 185 XTP's on the way in morning, I messed up and had the wife place an order for me awhile back for the brass and she bought me 1000?? Plus I got a 1000 bullets with my LNL AP when I bought it..so I'm swimming in 44mag stuff. I also included some real boolits to load, some 310gr WFN & some 240gr Keith's. Put a stout load of H-110 behind the 310's and it will drop any critter walking. Also crack's your fingers good if shooting em in a SBH! Have fun!!

[rockrat]

You say they measure .429" by your mic or calipers? Cases properly belled and everything? Only other thing I can think of has been said, anneal them.

[jdgabbard]

Clean the inside of the necks with a 44 cal bore brush in a drill to remove the whitish residue then anneal, should solve your problem.
The white stuff could be grit from some type of polish , some graphite applied to the inside of the case neck by rubbing a pencil inside the neck after leaning will help also.
Graphite is left behind after firing because powder granules are coated with it to make the powder flow better.

Or locktite! lol

[joesig]

This sounds crazy to have to perform on new brass but can you anneal a few cases and see if that helps? The numbers you've posted don't indicate any problem. Is it correct that the outside diameter a the shank of the projectile is about .453? (+/- .002ish) .429 +.012 +.012

[Mk42gunner]

I'd try cleaning the inside of the cases with a brush. Years ago I had some new .45 Long Colts that were tough to get the expander plug into until I lubed the cases. Dry brass on dry steel galling was what I thought; a bit of spray lube and things started working like they should.

Robert

[220swiftfn]

I was going to suggest tumbling or motor mica. I also think it's a problem with the virgin brass galling (this sometimes happens with stainless media too....)




Dan

[lavenatti]

Have you tried running an empty case through your seating die and measuring it afterwards?

[gray wolf]

What a job for a few cases, but hey we all have to learn something Eh.
I took all the measurements, and they all fall into the proper speck, they are the same as any other round. I put the remaining cases in the tumbler with New -finish car polish and I think this is going to work. I pulled five out after an hour and was able to load them. I will leave the other ten or so in the tumbler for a while longer and give them a go. I have never seen this before, Clyde said he new nothing about the brass cept it was left over from his dads stuff.
I sold a bunch of his stuff about a year ago for him when his dad could not reload anymore cause of safety reasons.
If I don't get back to this thread it's because the tumbler cleaning worked.
Every time I have a question it's like I have a whole Army of men to help with answers,
That's fantastic, knowledge in numbers. I would never have thought putting the brass in the tumbler would make a difference.
You guys are great and thanks for being there.>>>>>>>>>>>>AGAIN

[dragonrider]

You could try annealing the cases.

+1. Anneal them

[mdi]

I would try backing your seating die out about 4 turns, then screwing down the seating plug and trying that.
It's possible you are trying to "seat against the crimp". Bullets may start, but crimping is taking place as the bullets is being seated. Try Blammer's advice...

Try the easiest remedy first!

[leadhead]

You sure there not .41 mag cases?

[Lance Boyle]

yep, I'd have wiped a touch of lube on the inside necks for galling. Or shoot them with some cast and try them again. Hell Pb used to lube the inside of running engines.

[Cadillo]

It's possible you are trying to "seat against the crimp". Bullets may start, but crimping is taking place as the bullets is being seated. Try Blammer's advice...

Try the easiest remedy first!

My best guess is that you have nailed the most likely cause. Anyone who seats and crimps in the same step is begging for trouble. I know that many folks do it sucessfully, but everything must occur just right or trouble will abound. For every handgun caliber I load, I have both a seater and crimp die that I use in sequence.

I also buy my bread loaves presliced.

[gray wolf]

PLEASE, for everyone in the back row that didn't read what i said
I do not seat and crimp in one step
I tumbled the last few cases and used a Q-tip with some lanolin on the inside of the case neck
Along with an oversized expander ball and it fixed the problem.

[44MAG#1]

Spray the inside of the cases lighty with Hornady spray case lube. Lay them down and roll them as you spray so there won't be a dump of spray in the cases. Let dry and try that. It has worked for me and is quick. I have sprayed some on a paper towel and used that to apply the same lube into the cases. Will not harm powder or primers.
I have sprayed cast bullets that were hard to size if I wanted to size them without lubing for future use. Let it dry for a couple minutes first though.

[Cadillo]

PLEASE, for everyone in the back row that didn't read what i said
I do not seat and crimp in one step
I tumbled the last few cases and used a Q-tip with some lanolin on the inside of the case neck
Along with an oversized expander ball and it fixed the problem.

Actually you didn't say that in your first post, but rather only after someone else suggested an issue with your seating die. Hmmm!

I have five preses for centerfire cartridges, and any of them will easily crush a .44 mag case with little effort, but you can't get a .429 bullet to seat more than a few 1000ths with yours even though your seater is meeting no resistance from a crimp?

Back Row?

Oh the humanity!

[nvbirdman]

If these cases have less volume and you are using a heavy powder charge you could have a compressed load that won't compress anymore.