Tin Solder Question

[Namerifrats]

I bought a roll of Solder to add tin to my alloy in the casting pot. I'm using melted down wheel weights that I smelted into ingot this past weekend. Not sure of the hardness but thought I could do some test cast and if it appears I need more tin then I would add some and keep doing test cast until I get a good alloy worked up so I would know how much to add per pot full. The solder I bought is a LENOX 1/2 lb roll. It says it's Lead Free, and contains TIN, COPPER, and SELENIUM. Doesn't have any alloy percentages listed. I would guess it to be mostly Tin though because it's silver in color. Will the copper affect anything and whats Selenium? Where do you guys buy your Solder at?

[NVcurmudgeon]

I get my lead-free solder from Lowe's because they are the cheapest. I have been using 2% (140 gr. solder with each one lb. ingot of WW metal added.) Just thought of the fact that WW contains some tin, so I'll probably go to 105 gr. solder per lb. of WW in future batches. You can check out the percentages of all the ingredients of your solder at the maker's web site. Most lead free solders contain nearly all tin, with negligible amounts of copper, selenium, etc.

[Namerifrats]

Lowes is where I bought mine at. I haven't seen any of the 95/5 stuff you guys mentioned. All I've seen are the small rolls and they don't have any numbers on them.

[felix]

Copper and selenium go together. The purest forms of copper will have had the selenium taken out. 95/5 is not one of them. Don't even think about it. ... felix

[Hayfield]

Namerifrats. Were you aware of the fact that 'wheel weight' alloy gets harder with age. Not that it wieghs more or less but it doesn't seem to shoot the same for me at least. Straight ww/ 9.5 bhn, two weeks/ 11 to 12 and 30 days/ 13.5. After I read that here I tried it. No question about it. Just some information that might be useful when you 'test' your alloy. Seems to level off at that 30 day bhn. I beleive that it's the antimony and not the tin that is the factor.

[Namerifrats]

I've read that WW alloy does reach it's peak hardness in about 2-3 weeks. But I also read that the tin helps the alloy fill the mold better. That what I'm trying to accomplish. I haven't tried to cast my first bullets yet but plan to try it later this evening.

[44man]

I have tried it both ways and can't find a difference in mold fill out between straight WW's and that with some tin added. I cast a lot of pure lead balls and boolits without tin added and they come out perfect too. In most cases I see no need for tin unless antimony is also added.

[AZ-Stew]

Your solder is 4-5 percent copper and less than a half a percent or so selenium.

For more info on selenium, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenium

In large quantities, selenium is toxic, but it is also an essential nutrient, so we all need trace quantities of it, which we get in our normal diets.

I'd be careful to cast with plenty of ventilation when using this solder as a tin supplement. The solder is intended to be used at temperatures about 300 degrees lower than what you'll need to cast good bullets. I simply don't know what happens to the selenium when these alloys are heated to 700 - 800 degrees. With plenty of ventillation, there shouldn't be any problems. In addition, the usual safety precautions, such as thorough hand washing after casting and before handling food or smoking materials should be observed. In the future, you might want to look for lead-free solder that does not contain selenium. There are some that are tin/copper, tin/copper/silver and tin/copper/antimony. See:

http://www.taracorp.com/products_solders_leadfree.php

Also, see the Taramet Stirling listing in the panel on the left of that page.

As for the copper, these solders are typically less than 5 percent copper, more often near 4 percent. If you add 2 percent tin, via the solder you have, you'll need over 6 ounces of the solder in a 20 pound pot, with 19 pounds, 10 ounces of wheel weights. The copper will be 1/4 ounce of the total mix. I believe this small amount will hardly be noticable.

The selenium will be an even smaller portion of the total and may not be a safety concern, but follow standard safety precautions anyway. I remember being told in Navy electronics training many years ago that selenium diodes were possibly toxic and should be handled with care.

Regards,

Stew

[Whitespider]

The last solder I bought was at Menards, cheapest I could find. One pound roll of 95/5 (95% tin / 5% antimony) for $10.59. I alloyed 1 lb solder to 50 lbs WW, should give me a little bit more than 2% tin overall. Anyway, the boolits came out real good.

[Namerifrats]

I'll probably hit a couple plumbing supply stores around here in a day or two and see what they have as far as Solder. I might even see about som radiator shops around. This body solder I've read about, is it sold in Automotive Parts stores? Is it any cheaper or better that the plumbers solder?

[hunter64]

Go to a radiator repair shop and ask if they have some used solder. They usually keep it in a 5 gallon pail, it is getting harder to find because most of the new radiators are plastic and can't be soldered up to fix them. Hit a rad shop near an industrial end of town and usually you can get at least an ice cream pail full and usually for free. The stuff they use is 60/40 lead/tin and you will have a great cheap supply of tin on hand to mix with. The last shop I went to about a year ago gave me 3 5-gallon buckets full of it, I melted it down into 1 pound ingots and I use 1 lb. to 18 lbs of WW and it seems to work good for me.

[felix]

60/40 is tin/lead..... not lead/tin.... felix

[mto7464]

The radiator shop here also used the 40/60 tin to lead, whcih I got a bucket full for cheap. Been meaning to stop by and get more.

[Namerifrats]

So the scrap is just peices of solder? Just wanting to make sure of what to go in and ask for.

[randyrat]

Scrap yes. It's pieces that are not long enough to solder with and scrap they cleaned out of their cooling tank. Don't worry if it's 60/40 or 40/60 it still will add a little tin to your mix. Chances are you won't need a lot of it if your using WWs. I have a bunch of it from a radiator shop....MMMM mmmmmmm is it 40% tin or 60% tin i don't know?. I throw in a 1 lb ingot of it to about 10 lbs of WWs and it works great. I could be wasting/ using too much of it... Felix says; 60% tin then i may go to a 1/2 lb ingot to 9-10 lbs WWs.

[black44hawk]

I am always shopping around for deals on solder for my WW alloy. I bought some lead free stuff which I expected to be 95/5 Pb An. But upon closer inspection found out that there is an acid core. BEWARE OF THIS SOLDER, for when you melt it down VERY NOXIOUS FUMES RESULT. I bought this stuff at WalMart but I bet it is everywhere. If you have to use it you might want to do it outside with a strong fan blowing away from your face.

[hunter64]

Felix is correct it is tin/lead, me and my dyslexia. Yes it is just a bunch of odd bits and pieces and a 5 gallon pail will do you for a long time. According to the Lyman #2 formula on http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm you add 1 LB. of 50/50 Solder to 9 LBS of WW which is supposed to give you 5% Tin. Lots of people on the board have stated that 2% is about all you need for good bullet fill out and water quench/heat treat to get a nice hard cast bullet. So I use the 60/40 at about 1 to 18 lbs of WW which is still about 2.5% tin or there abouts and it works just fine for me.

[AZ-Stew]

black44hawk raises another good point.

There are flux core solders and solid core solders. The solid ones are all solder, with no other materials. The flux core solders are typically designed for one of two jobs: electronics or plumbing. Used to be that the solders designed for electronics used a rosin flux, essentially pine tree sap. It smelled wonderful and was relatively harmless. There have been a number of new fluxes developed for electronics solders in the last few years. I suspect these to be relatively harmless as well, due to the conditions under which they're used. Seldom does anyone working on electronics don a respirator while soldering. A properly adjusted professional (temperature controlled) electronics soldering iron will not heat the solder to anywhere near the vaporization point.

Flux cores for plumbing solders are a bit different. They're typically quite corrosive, which is why they aren't used for electronics, and are usually called "acid core" fluxes. They work well for joining copper pipes which are usually not as clean as electronic equipment. For those who don't know, the fluxes used in soldering are there to remove the layer of oxide that is always present on the surfaces of the items that will be joined by the soldering process so that the solder can form a metalic bond to the pipes or electronic components. Acid fluxes are more agressive in this regard, but have to be thoroughly removed after soldering to prevent corrosion. For obvious reasons, vapors from acid fluxes should not be inhaled.

For our purposes, if solder is to be used to add tin to our bullet alloys, a solid core solder should be used. We actually get a little more tin for our $$, and since the flux core doesn't do anything for us in alloy preparation, we simply don't need it. In addition, I'd rather not put acid flux in my casting pot. No good can come from it.

Regards,

Stew