How do you get your BHN?

[SheepDogAlpha]

Hey all, I was just curious as to how some of you attain your BHN. I can run all the formulations and compile all the info I want about alloys, but without actually testing it, I can only suspect what my alloys are really at. Without spending the $50 on a Lee BHN testing system, I was wondering what other methods I could explore to give a decent idea as to what the hardness of my alloys are. Thank you in advance! -SDA

[dromia]

Before I got my Cabine Tree tester I never worried about BHN just relative hardness.

I had four levels of alloy that I would work with from "known" sources.

1 Pureish lead that came from piping, roof flashing and such like used for BP shooting with a smidgen of tin from solder. BHN in the region of 5-7.
2 Range scrap and wheel weights for most general shooting. BHN in the region 11-14
3 Linotype from printers and scrappies for further hardening of WW and range scrap if needed, alas only scrappies or new from foundry now. BHN 20-22
4 A bearing type metal that I used to get from the time when we had collieries that I used for high velocity rifle boolits, I have since found out that its success was due to its copper content although I had no idea of that at the time. BHN around 24.

I had no idea of these hardnesses at the time by testing but with those first three alloys, in my mind soft, medium and hard, I did the vast majority of my shooting in total ignorance of BHN. So relative hardness and how it performs with your application is all you need to know, also I think for most applications people use too hard and alloy.

[fredj338]

The only way to know is to test. some have used the graphite pnecil method, do a search, you can also compare w/ a known bullet hardness using various methods of comarisoon, but something that actually measure repeatedly is more precise. The question is, do you need the precision? Most handgun bullet needs just don't for general shooting IMO. If it's sot enough to dent, it's castable & shootable. For years & years & cast w/o a hardness tester. I like to know, but it's not that big a deal for most of my shooting needs.

[melter68]

I use lead flashing, lead pipe but stay away from wheel weights.

Do not have a hardness test kit all i do is scratch the surface of the boolit with a

screw driver(the same one), normaly use 1 % for hand gun boolits and up to 4 %

tin for high power rifle.

No problems so far

[Dan Cash]

I just order it in from Sportsman's Guide or Cheaper than Dirt. :)

[Wolfer]

Cast and shot for years without a tester. I only got one because I was curious. A buddy had one and I took some seasoned boolits and had him test them. Afterward I could take one of those and a like boolit of a different batch, put them nose to nose in a vise and tell which was harder.
Shooting them confirmed my thoughts that it really didn't matter that much.
If your boolit FITS you can shoot a pretty soft alloy. I shoot the same alloy in my rifles and pistols and I can scratch it with my fingernail.

[randyrat]

One other way to get in the ball park is by weight and it is not perfect, but will get you where you want to go.
Lets say I have a mold that with normal WWs cast an average boolit 250 grains consistently. Now you add a harder alloy it's gonna weigh less, lets say 240 grs. This method will works for the most part. There are variations such as Sn/Tin Vs Lino or Mono type.
I write down with each mold what they weigh with regular ol WWs, then I can compare when I harden and lighten them up with Lino or Sn. Remember your not always hardening when you add Sn but you will get lighter weights.

Keep track of your recipes for each boolit/load/mold and weigh for verification. I do this to save time. I have not played with my LEE tester in years.

[Tom Myers]

Hey all, I was just curious as to how some of you attain your BHN. I can run all the formulations and compile all the info I want about alloys, but without actually testing it, I can only suspect what my alloys are really at. Without spending the $50 on a Lee BHN testing system, I was wondering what other methods I could explore to give a decent idea as to what the hardness of my alloys are. Thank you in advance! -SDA

Way back when, before I had my Saeco Hardness Testing tool, this method worked well for me.

1. Pour an ingot of pure lead and an ingot of your sample alloy. The ingots need not be large ( I used to use bottle caps when they were still available)

2. Obtain a steel ball bearing with a diameter of around 3/8" to 1/2" in diameter. (size is not critical but larger impressions are easier to measure)

3. File one side of each ingot flat and smooth.

4. Sandwitch the ball bearing between the smooth surfaces of the two ingots and place the sandwitch in a vice.

5. Tighten the vice untill no more the 25% of the diameter of the ball is impressed into the pure lead sample.

6. Use calipers and a magnifier to carefully measure the diameter of each impression in the ingots.

7. Record the diameter of the pure lead impression and label it as " L ".

8. Record the diameter of the alloy sample and label it as " A ".

9. The formula for determining the Brinell Hardness " BH "of the alloy sample is;

BH = ( L / A ) x ( L / A ) x 5

Let's say that you have some alloy that is supposed to be Lyman # 2 but you are not sure.
Pour and prepare the ingots as described above then hunt around untill you find that old 1/2" ball bearing that you dropped in your "possible drawer" a few years ago.

Sandwitching the bearing between the ingots and squeezing them in your vice untill the impression in the pure lead ingot is just under 0.125" in diameter. (0.5" / 4) and then using a magnifier and calipers to measure the impressions, you find that the impression in the pure lead ingot is 0.121" ( L ) and the impression in the alloy ingot measures 0.070" ( A ).

Now you divide 0.121 by 0.070 with a result of 1.7286.

Next, multiplying 1.7286 x 1.7286, you obtain a value of 2.988.

Multiplying that product by 5, you obtain the estimated BHN. 2.988 x 5 = 14.94

You are still not sure that the alloy is Lyman #2 but you can be fairly certain that the Brinell Hardness number is quite close to #2 Alloy.

Hope this helps.

[40Super]

I made a tester similar to the Saeco one and cast up a pile of pure lead .45 boolits and another pile of pure Lino to get the high and low hardness. I also have some cast out of a verified Lyman #2 alloy , so I get an approximation and that good enough. To me the most important thing is to get a consistent BHN from boolit to boolit or ingot to ingot than knowing the exact hardness.

[leadman]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?180718-Am-Rifleman-Bullet-Hardness-Testing-Method-1959
I posted this for those that don't have a hardness tester.

[captaint]

I really use the Cabin Tree just to confirm that I have what I think I have. WW's oughta be around 10 or so, softer should be around 7 or 8. Not yet shooting rifle boolits, save for the 38-55, I haven't needed anything harder yet. I do have plenty of lino and mono, and when I need it, I'll mix some up and test that. I am in the habit of checking after I pour up a batch of boolits just to make sure. Most times, I don't get any surprises, but we never know till we check. Thats my take. Mike

[ukrifleman]

Hey all, I was just curious as to how some of you attain your BHN. I can run all the formulations and compile all the info I want about alloys, but without actually testing it, I can only suspect what my alloys are really at. Without spending the $50 on a Lee BHN testing system, I was wondering what other methods I could explore to give a decent idea as to what the hardness of my alloys are. Thank you in advance! -SDA

Call me old fashioned, but after 41 years of casting and loading I still rely on the `Thumbnail`test, never felt the need for anything else.
ukrifleman.

[MtGun44]

+1 on Dromia.

BHN is not a primary variable. For most people using wheel weight alloy
will work fine and wwt + 50% pure usually works but may need a touch
of tin to fill out the mold well. I am talking about pistol and light rifle
loads here - high intensity rifle loads beyond 2000 fps may well need
harder alloys, and can't speak to .454 Casull and the new gen of
really hot pistols from personal experience.

Agree that most shoot harder alloy than is necessary. In testing I have had
normal great results and zero leading with .357 and .44 mag with 8 BHN
range scrap.

Bill

[geargnasher]

Spend the money on the Lee tester. IMO the best, most repeatable, most accurate, least expensive, and easiest to use on the market. Don't ignore Leadman's link in post #10, either.

Too many people get hung up on the BHN game. You need to know in order to approximate alloys that worked well for you, and it helps when trying to identify and figure out what to do with scrap metal of unknown composition. Other than that, it won't matter much until you're nitpicking alloy for high-velocity rifle work, or needing to verify that the "purish" soft lead scrap you got for your muzzleloader is indeed soft enough. For really fine work with precision alloys, you're going to be using foundry metals or metal of known composition anyway, so all you really need a tester for is to determine heat-treating cure times and such.


Gear

[220swiftfn]

Spend the money on the Lee tester. IMO the best, most repeatable, most accurate, least expensive, and easiest to use on the market. Don't ignore Leadman's link in post #10, either.

Too many people get hung up on the BHN game. You need to know in order to approximate alloys that worked well for you, and it helps when trying to identify and figure out what to do with scrap metal of unknown composition. Other than that, it won't matter much until you're nitpicking alloy for high-velocity rifle work, or needing to verify that the "purish" soft lead scrap you got for your muzzleloader is indeed soft enough. For really fine work with precision alloys, you're going to be using foundry metals or metal of known composition anyway, so all you really need a tester for is to determine heat-treating cure times and such.


Gear



And then there's Jbunny's spring punch tester............


Dan

[captaint]

Update - Last nite, after reading this thread, I had to go test some Lee 358RF's I cast about 3 weeks back. I was surprised to find they were - air cooled - 14 on my Cabin Tree. A little harder than I expected. They were straight WW's. Guess I don't use straight WW's that often. They're actually harder than I need them. I be shooting them in 38 Spec mostly, with some going in to 357 brass for medium vel. Maybe I'll bump that 357 load a little just for fun.
Again, though, these numbers are very general in actual terms. They will give us an idea of where we are, though. Mike

[Casper29]

There is plenty of information on what the hardness of certain types of lead are, and you can even buy lead made to specs, but when I started to mix my ww with pure lead and 50 50 I bought a tester it just takes the guessing out of it.

[BAGTIC]

I use an LBT tester