mod. mauser J.P. Saur & son

[Andrew Mason]

not sure where to post this, but i think the people in here will be able to help most.

well, i bought a rifle a few months ago,
it is a prewar mauser,
1/2 octagon 1/2 round barrel.
has set triggers,
a slim, english style stock.
i believe it is a 8mmx57 i do not know if it is a .323 or .318 bore.
the barrel is pretty worn, the rifling is there, but it dose not look all that great,

i know pictures are worth a thousand words, so i will try to post some.


anyone know about these j.p. sauer mausers?
thank you

[nekshot]

Sounds like a sweet gun to me. I have one original 98 with a octagon tight bore and it shoots hornady 32 cal lever bullets with perfection. If the bore is bad no problem, send it to Jes for a rebore to 35 whelen! What a gun that would be!

[Andrew Mason]

yes, it is a sweet little gun, fairly light weight, comes right in at just over 7lbs.

i have thought about a .35 whelen, i am also considering a 9.3×64mm Brenneke and a .350 remington magnum.

[Andrew Mason]

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj143/ANDY_MASON/jpsauermauser3_zps7a49e23c.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj143/ANDY_MASON/jpsauermauser2_zps236f0d35.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj143/ANDY_MASON/jpsauermauser4_zps2fcb02aa.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj143/ANDY_MASON/jpsauermauser_zps8821484b.jpg

[gnoahhh]

Pretty little rifle. The receiver sight on it alone is worth the price of admission. The rotted recoil pad not so much, but that's fixable.

I don't know about you, but the thought of a .35 caliber Romper-Stomper in a light rifle like that curls my toes! Have you tested it to see how well it shoots? It may well be sufficiently accurate for chasing white tails the way it is. I've messed with some pretty groady 8mm bores that shot nicely. In the event that a .35 caliber will win out, how about the 9x57, bored/chambered for using .358 bullets? It would feed through the magazine without any alterations too.

[nekshot]

Wow, not to hyjack this thread but this gun is almost identical to mine, except the reciever on mine is stippled on top. The barrels look identical. J Landuaer Munchen is stamped on my barrel.

[pietro]

The chambering designation should be stamped into the barrel somewhere, perhaps in the area hidden by the stock - either "7.92" or "8x57".

IIRC, if the designation includes a "J", then the bore's the early .318"; if it includes an "S", then it has a later .323" bore.



.

[Andrew Mason]

The chambering designation should be stamped into the barrel somewhere, perhaps in the area hidden by the stock - either "7.92" or "8x57".

IIRC, if the designation includes a "J", then the bore's the early .318"; if it includes an "S", then it has a later .323" bore.



.


thank you!!

i will remove the barrel and check, i am praying that it is the .323 bore.

and to those who asked,
no, i have not yet shot this rifle, as i did not know the proper bore diameter.

[Andrew Mason]

ok, here is a picture of the underside of the barrel, right up against the reciever ring.

i have no clue what these markings are

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj143/ANDY_MASON/spsauermauser5_zps683bf15c.jpg


one think that i have learned about this rifle,
i believe that it was, at one time, a military service rife.
it was then later on converted into the sporter that it is now.
i say this because i find two different serial numbers all over
this gun.

the nice thing is, that between the two seperate numbers, they are all matching.

[nekshot]

try pound a oiled lead anything into the end of barrel that will at least give you the bore.

[Andrew Mason]

try pound a oiled lead anything into the end of barrel that will at least give you the bore.

thats my plan,
i am just going to have to slug it.

[wch]

Regardless of the caliber, that rifle's a classic.

[Andrew Mason]

Regardless of the caliber, that rifle's a classic.

thank you,
despite its rough shape, i think it is the prize of my collection

[knifemaker]

J.P. Saur is a well known and highly respected firearms maker in Germany. On the level that Winchester was here prior to 1964. I would not be surprised if that rifle was not liberated by a G.I. during WW11 and bought home here.
When Roy Weatherby first designed his Mark V rifles, he went to J.P. Saur to make the first Mark V rifles until he was able to produce them here in the states. Those J.P.Saur made Mark V's are considered by many Weatherby collectors as the best Mark V's made.

[Andrew Mason]

i am starting to develop a theory of stamping of "172/28" on the bottom of the barrel.
my theory is that it was made on the 172nd day of 1928.
anyone think that my theory might be off?

[KCSO]

Arms of the World 1911 has the rifle and the original description in it if I remember right. The mauser sporters were popular arcoss most of the world but were castigated here by gun writers who complained about the stocking and excessive felt recoil. Whelen especially was down on the German stocking. The other reason not a lot of them made it here was the high tax on import which IIRR was about the cost of the gun in 1920. I had a full stock very similar to that in 7.63x62 and I also found that with full loads it was a kicker but it was a joy to carry in the field, the first MOUNTAIN RIFLE.

[nekshot]

Andrew, I would have no problem with your theory on that date.

[Andrew Mason]

all right, well.

i slugged the bore.

.318'' diameter.
so, if i am going to reload for this thing (wich i think will become my only source of ammo) i will have to find the less common .318 diameter.
im thinking it is a very high chance that i will get this barrel bored out

[220swiftfn]

all right, well.

i slugged the bore.

.318'' diameter.
so, if i am going to reload for this thing (wich i think will become my only source of ammo) i will have to find the less common .318 diameter.
im thinking it is a very high chance that i will get this barrel bored out

NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Say it aint so...... I'd at least TRY to see how it shoots first (and I have a set of 8mm dies that I'd be willing to loan, all you'd need to do is get the right expander) OR, get a set of collet dies for it.......


Dan

[nekshot]

Andrew, here is what I do with mine. My chamber is a perfect 8x57s so here is what I do. For cast I take a rcbs32-170 and place it over 40 gr of aa4350 and shoots fine. For jacket I use hornady 32 flex tip 165 gr bullet paper patched to hold in case neck till seated or it falls into case. I can reform 30-06 brass and they are thicker and the hornady bullet fits perfect. Again I use the 40 gr 4350 load. This is a mild load. I have a thread here recently on 8mm bullet falls into cartridge. Good info there from better men than me. Hope this gives you some direction. Or bite the bullet(pun intended) and buy those bullets from australia, big dollars for them.

[nekshot]

one more thought Andrew, I take a empty cartridge deprimed and grind a drywall screw to fit into the neck but not drop below the neck into the case. Then I make a slug of lead (pound muzzle loader boolit) into a long boolit looking slug about one and a half to two inches long and place in cartridge, oil it and chamber it Then I take a old stainless steel cleaning rod, you can use any type of hard rod, cover it in electic tape and tap away with a hammer(tap not slam!) When the pure lead is expanded the hammer gets a differant pounce to it. You might have to tap on the rod as you lift the bolt handle to extract, but you will have a perfect chamber cast if all goes correct. Oh boy is this gonna explode the keyboards now! It works for me and I have done this on dozens of guns.

[junkbug]

The throat size, not the bore or groove diameter, dictate the size bullet you can use. You could hone the throat out a little, and leave the bore/groove alone, and shoot most jacketed .323 bullets out of it.

Since it is a custom load project anyway, you can also just inside neck ream your 8X57 brass until commercial .321" bullets made for the .32 Winchester chamber smoothly, with no tightness or hang-ups.

I use this principal to load .303 jacketed bullets into 30-30 brass for use in a very worn 1899 Savage 30-30. Luckily it is the only gun I have in this cartridge.

[Andrew Mason]

Andrew, here is what I do with mine. My chamber is a perfect 8x57s so here is what I do. For cast I take a rcbs32-170 and place it over 40 gr of aa4350 and shoots fine. For jacket I use hornady 32 flex tip 165 gr bullet paper patched to hold in case neck till seated or it falls into case. I can reform 30-06 brass and they are thicker and the hornady bullet fits perfect. Again I use the 40 gr 4350 load. This is a mild load. I have a thread here recently on 8mm bullet falls into cartridge. Good info there from better men than me. Hope this gives you some direction. Or bite the bullet(pun intended) and buy those bullets from australia, big dollars for them.

any chance you can pass on some of these bullets for me to test out to see if thing is a shooter?

[nekshot]

Yes send me a pm and bear with me for I am almost computer illiterate but I will deliver.

[Von Dingo]

If, after cleaning the bore it looks good, no telling how much copper is in there, you could always resize cast, or swage .323 slugs for the .318 bore. FWIW, the rifle looks like a classic pre WW II Germanic sporting rifle, a little TLC and it is great. It was definatly a rebuild on a military action, note the thumb cutout on the left wall of the reciever, in front of the rear bridge. Commercial actions had a solid left sidewall.

[Andrew Mason]

Not that I have any desire to sell this rifle,
What you you all consider the approximate value of this old beauty?

[x101airborne]

Not that I have any desire to sell this rifle,
What you you all consider the approximate value of this old beauty?

Absolutely everything in my pockets!
A smarta** phone, a canoe trapper, some lint.... LOL
Seriously, I would go up to about 800.00 to put that in my collection. Just my amatuer assessment.

[Andrew Mason]

well, as far as buying the .321 diameter bullets, for the cost of buying them, can spend a few extra dollars and get the .318 diameter bullets, and not to mention the .318 bullets weigh more,
wich unless i am trying for a really high velocity, i prefer a heavy bullet.

[nekshot]

Andrew, with those heavy bullets and the reputation of the maker, and that gun loaded to its potential you will be ready for big bears! Keep us posted those bullets have interested me also.

[Andrew Mason]

Andrew, with those heavy bullets and the reputation of the maker, and that gun loaded to its potential you will be ready for big bears! Keep us posted those bullets have interested me also.

thank you so much for those.
i am going to have a friend of mine turn down the sizing die from a .323 to a .318 on his lathe.
once i get that done, i will be going all out on getting some 8mm loaded up and get this old beauty shooting
i hope to use it for bear hunting this year.
ill let the girl friend use the .35 remington.

[Safeshot]

You stated that the "bore" is .318" diameter. What is the groove diameter? Jacketed bullets are usually "groove diameter". Cast bullets usually give best results at "groove diameter" +.001" or sometimes +.002". If the "bore diameter" is really .318", the groove diameter may be .323".
Suggest (as was suggested before) that you see how well or bad it groups (with the proper size jacketed bullet) before you decide to "rebore" it. Clean the bore "really clean" before shooting it. Many older rifles have layers of fouling and carbon in the bore. Some older rifles have bores that LOOK terrible, however still shoot quite well. Even if the bore is rough, "fire lapping" may help it enough to group well. Good luck.

[Andrew Mason]

You stated that the "bore" is .318" diameter. What is the groove diameter? Jacketed bullets are usually "groove diameter". Cast bullets usually give best results at "groove diameter" +.001" or sometimes +.002". If the "bore diameter" is really .318", the groove diameter may be .323".
Suggest (as was suggested before) that you see how well or bad it groups (with the proper size jacketed bullet) before you decide to "rebore" it. Clean the bore "really clean" before shooting it. Many older rifles have layers of fouling and carbon in the bore. Some older rifles have bores that LOOK terrible, however still shoot quite well. Even if the bore is rough, "fire lapping" may help it enough to group well. Good luck.

i am sorry for not being more specific.
the groove diameter is .318, i do not recall what the bore diameter was now.

i will definatly be giving this barrel a good, hard cleaning to try to get some
crud out of the bores.

[nekshot]

Andrew, your barrel is identical to mine as much as I can see in your picture. I would put your gun and mine in the same time period and who knows maybe the same barrel manufacturer. If yours shoots as mine does you will have a grin on your face for a long time, and I have no doubt it will! Kinda amazing there is another thread in gunsmithing"double triggers" that looks like it also is from this era of hunting guns.

[Andrew Mason]

what did you use as your bore cleaner to remove the century build up of crud?

[nekshot]

I used Montana X-tream then I would clean thougherly and use Sweets 7.62 solvent. Back and forth for almost a day until the patches came out clean. Sure was worth the effort.
nekshot

[Combat Diver]

Andrew,

Congrats on a very fine rifle. I used to have a similiar style German Mauser. It had a 1/2 round, 1/2 octagon Krupp Essen Stahl bbl, double set triggers, Claw scope mounts on reciever bridge, express sights and a folding tang sight. Seems some GI brought it back after WWII and had it rechambered from 7.92x57 to 8mm/06. Enjoy the rich histroy of the rifle and building cartridges for it.


CD