H414 loads for 30-30?

[lylejb]

Ok, I know H414 is slower than optimum for 30-30, but has anyone tried it?

I see, in several manuals, 30-30 loads with IMR4350, which is even slower than h414, so it should be possible.

I've read (on this forum) that h414 is the same powder as Win 760.

Hodgdon's data center shows 1 and only 1 load for win 760 in 30-30, thats 33.6 gr with a sierra 170gr for 1975 fps.

The main reason for this question is that I have a couple cans on hand, and would like to be able to use them in the 30-30 as well as the -06.

Interested in any 150 to 170gr J or cast loads

Has anyone tried this?

[felix]

No problem. ... felix

[madsenshooter]

The slower powder should keep pressures down to cast boolit safe levels. Might get a bit more boom out the end of a typical 30/30 length barrel than you would with some faster burning powders. I'd expect your velocity with a cast bullet to be higher than Hodgdon's figure, and pressure a bit lower. One thing that I think helps with 760 or H414 is to use a magnum primer. In the .308 and 30-06 in M1A and M1 I had unburned powder falling back into the chamber upon extraction unless I lit things off with a magnum primer.

[lotech]

According to some old notes (more than twenty years ago), I tried 33 grains H414 and the Lee FN .30-30 bullet (about 170 grains). Recorded muzzle velocity was 1,675. The Lee handbook shows a max. charge of 36 grs. H414 for a MV of 2080 with that bullet. That may be a safe load, but I used to use H414 regularly (though not for the .30-30) and the lot-to-lot consistency varied a good bit more than other powders. May be more consistent today.

I used H414 in the .30-40 Krag and .30-06 with cast bullets; also a few years back.

[fryboy]

never tried it with boolits but with the heavier j-words it works ok not so much with the lighter ones , it does tend to have a narrow window at the upper end where it seems to do it's best , the first lee book listed with 170's all the way down to 100 grain j-words but not with boolits ( when they actually state lead that is ) reloader 15 actually beats it for velocity ( by roughly 75 fps ) with the 170 they state 35.4 min to 37 max @2259 fps and @37400CUP with a minimum o.a.l. of 2.480

[pressonregardless]

In the cast bullet section of the 2nd edition of Lee's reloading book, I seem to recall a list 30-30 loads using H414. I don't have mine close by, maybe someone that does will chime in.

[GabbyM]

Only have data and tried WW760 with 197.5 grain boolits. RCBS 30-180-FN cast from 2;6 alloy. WW 760 charge 36.0gr, REM 9 ½ primer, 2066 fps, @ 36,200 psi.

36 grains is pretty much a case full IIRC. Substituting lighter than 200 grain bullets over the same powder charge should lower pressure. Velocity will probably be about the same.

[ktw]

John Kort (aka w30wcf here and other places) did some work with H414 and heavy bullets in the 30-30.
One of his posts on that is here: http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6203&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

I have been using 34-35 gr H414 under the RCBS 30-180-FN in several 30-30 guns.

-ktw

[fryboy]

In the cast bullet section of the 2nd edition of Lee's reloading book, I seem to recall a list 30-30 loads using H414. I don't have mine close by, maybe someone that does will chime in.

indeed there is h414 in that section but i didnt quote it because by my way of thinking 414 tends to work best at the upper spectrum of load data and it's also right around the powder burning speed that funky things can happen , added to by the fact that unlike several other choices it can be a bit temp sensitive , your mileage may vary ....

[mainiac]

case full of h-414 is the most accurate load in my ol marlin,,with the noe 165 boolit.cant remember exactly what i load,but speed is right around 2000 f.p.s. highly recommended powder!!

[geargnasher]

Rather than a magnum primer, a tiny booster charge of a faster powder enhanced consistency for me. The stuff is still temp-sensitive, though, same as 748, H335, and BLC 2.

Gear

[lylejb]

Thanks all, I knew someone must have done this before.

I expected a magnum primer, being a slow ball powder.

The Lee 170 and a few donated lyman 311041's are the heaviest i have on hand

Think I'll start at about 32gr, a mag primer, and see how that goes.

[madsenshooter]

I was playing with my father's 30/30 Handi Rifle once using H414 and some old ICL Sabre Tip 180gr spitzer bullets. They were the first bullets I'm aware of with the plastic tip. It was a very accurate load!

[runfiverun]

i have used the h-414 in the 30-30 a bit and have used it in other cartridges as well.
it really does it's best work when you have a case full and compress it slightly.
and even better when pushing a heavy bullet/boolit.

it also needs good neck tension to make everything work properly.
if you get the pressure up initially and keep it there it will drop off quickly and burn cleanly.
if you don't you will see erratics things happen that appear to be temperature related [when they are pressure related] it's not caused by temperature but by missing one of the key ingredients above.
414 is on the too slow,just fast enough end of the spectrum for the 30-30.
keep the boolits on the 170 up end and compress the powder slightly and it will do fine.
same as a case full of 4831 it has to be full and lightly crunched to work.

both powders are super easy on the boolit but you have to work in their zone.

[Bill*B]

I know it's an old thread, but just to add to the database:

Winchester Trapper .30-30 with 16.5" barrel

Mountain Molds 182 grain cast GC, seated 0.505" deep (to base of neck), BHN about 16
Federal brass - CCI #34 primer
H 414 34 grains (fills the available powder space and just enters the case neck, a very lightly compressed load)
velocity at 8 feet: 1813 fps
Left some unburned powder grains in bore, but cleaned up easily
impact at 100 yards to point of aim with the carbine sights set one notch down from maximum elevation
Accuracy as good as I am: about 3" groups at 50 yards, with the factory open sights.

[GabbyM]

See the Hodgdon data list 760 in the 30-30. No start load. fill it up and go. Pressure under a 170 grain J bullet is only 30,000 CUP. 1975 fps. Am sure if you backed it down you'd have a mess. I've taken to lighting WW760 in a 243 with Remington magnum primers. Remington's are a mild magnum. Also had some good luck with CCI-200. Which is on the hot side of standard primers. I'd not use a magnum in the little 30-30 case. CCI-200 or Rem LR should light off slow ball powder fine. Federal primers are mild and work great with medium burn rate stick powders.

Those CCI #34's are a magnum power primer. Should get 760 burning good. But I'd be wary of just any lever gun having enough hammer fall power to set them off. Since the mill spec primers are hard cup. My 30-30 would as it dents them deep. You can buy new springs too.

[Bill*B]

Yes, I would agree - no reduced loads with this powder! Here's what I found :

32 grains R-P brass 1699 fps
33.3 grains R-P brass 1719
34.0 grains Fed brass 1813 fps

Look at that 100+ fps jump, with only a 0.7 grain increase in powder, but a change in brass, at the case volume limit. The burn seems to be taking off as the powder is lightly compressed.

[jaysouth]

In Hodgon powder manual number 25, there are H-414 loads for 125, 150 and 170 jacketed bullets.