45 colt rifle loads

[bigted]

had to do it...brought home a rossi 45 colt with a 20 inch barrel... [bought the grandson a like model in 357 mag and found it so fun i had to have one for myself]... been playin with it but really wanted to shoot bp in the m-92 so last night i loaded 10 with 30 grains cartridge followed with a wax paper then a .250 greese cookie then my 250 grain flatnose boolit [greeser].

havnt shot these yet but am looking forward to doing so...the smokless rounds were a large hoot so i figure these bp rounds will be extra fun...just hoping that they will group well...then im gonna play with the thickness of cookie and maybe try no cookie at all...i want to be able to shoot for an extended length of time so really dont want to stop n swab the barrel.

i also built a bore snake kinda different then the ones in the store...i took a length of parachute cord and took a 410 shotgun cleaning jag...[slotted typ]...and built a do-hicky to atach it to the string so i can put the string thru the barrel from the breech and pull a wet swab thru to the muzzle so as to not drag bp crud into the action...this is till i try to dissasemble the 92 and find out how hard it is to field strip for cleaning.

looks like it will work so more later when i get bundled up to go out in the -30 degree weather and see how it all works together. what fun!!!8-)...:-D...:roll:

[bigted]

my my...what fun these r to shoot!!! shot the first 5 into a 1.5 inch group at around 35 yds...then took the rifle inside to pull the new built snake thru the bore to try it out...perfect...amazin...the snake removed the fouling and left the bore in perfect shape so i dryed the bore and went out and shot the remaining 5 and widened the group to a 2 x 2 1/4 inch group...BRRR cold. the sights are not conducive for me and accurate shooting so am impatient to get the tang mounted peep.

BUT...man what fun these are. these will give the 38-55 a run for its money funwise. im thinkin that even here in pre-historic Alaska that i may have found a new friend to go plinkin and table fair huntin with.

this little rossi is just the shis niss for a lite rifle and equally lite recoil shooter...AND economical as well...aint burnin 120 grains of my preciouse catch of cartridge powder and the 250 grain boolits will go twice as far poundwise as the 45-70 will.

all in all im very impressed with this little package and cant wait for the next outting with the blackpowder loads and this spiffy little rifle.

are there others that have played with the 45 colt n blackpowder in a small rifle?

[Nobade]

Yep, my wife's Marlin 1894CB shoots black regularly and very well. The NOE 240gr. blackpowder boolit works wonderfully, is very accurate and you can shoot all day without having to wipe. If you stop for a while it does help to blow down the muzzle some though, with the action open of course. Just don't let anybody see you doing that in public, they'll sometimes get excited.

30gr. CTG is a pretty light load - try 35gr. FFFg for more hit. Of course you'll now need to get yourself a proper sidearm chambered for the same round....

Oh, don't get the Big Lube PRS boolit. It ain't worth a hoot in rifles. Some of the Accurate offerings are very good though. Or the original Lyman #454191 (IIRC that's the number. regular 45 colt boolit.)

[John Boy]

Ted, congratulations with your Rossi M92. Now get to work slicking it up!:-D


Rossi 92: The COMPLETE - CORRECT Disassembly & Assembly Instructions! (http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=7504.0)

[Mike Brooks]

I don't care for Rossi's, but have shot a ton of BP through a taylor's '73 whilst cowboy shooting. I have found several things that work. Keep in mind I have a gun with a 30" barrel so lube is important. Big lubes work OK for CAS distances ( right in front of your face.....) I have used standard hard cast bullets with about 1/8" lube cookie....keeps the bore pretty sloppy, which is a good thing. With big lubes I ofetn use scholfield cases and no fiber wad..can't remember the powder charge but if was a pretty full case. A LC 45 case with a lube cookie held about the same powder charge. I unly used a wad between powder and cookie. 45LC really works well with smokless if you're just plinking around.

[joec]

I shot black powder through mine in my cowboy action group. I load the same with the rifle as I do with the pistols. Fill the case with enough black powder so when the bullet is pressed in the powder compresses about 1/16" to 1/8". I use 250 gr lead cast bullets with SPG lube. Never had a problem with out to 50 yards. The Rossi will easily handle powers greater than a Ruger load and even handle a 290 to 300 gr bullets with no problem. Another fun powder to shoot in smokeless is Trailboss.

[bigted]

8-) yep i heard that with the revolver and blackpowder...my vaquerro does well with the 35 grain load... i have had a 45 in the stable since around 1972 or so...i want to try the cookie load tho and see if it will run a bit longer like that... i made some 1/8th cookies and loaded 35 grains in them...also i wanna load 40 grains without the cookie just fer grins. man i think that life just gets better n better huh...except for this cussed job that is going to eat up my next 4 days. ho hum guess it allows me the fun to persue this passion so ill hang in for a few more years.:roll:...:drinks:

[bigted]

got to shoot my most recent loads today...35 grains cartridge with a .190 inch cookie...also shot the 40 grain loads and my what fun they are...problem with the 40 grain loads is they dont do well at 35 yards [think a 3 inch group]...the 35 grain loads tho were a different storie! they printed 5 shots into a 1 5/8ths high by 5/8ths wide. i really liked the 40 grain recoil and smoke but cant buck about the 35 grain loads. guess ill have to bite the bullet and get a couple cans of 3f GOEX to try in these 45colt rounds.

cant wait for better rear sights tho and the action is slick-ing up very nice with just cycling it repeatedly with copious amounts of oil. i really like this rifle so far. such an economical and fun shooting rifle.

[Mike Brooks]

some of my most accurate BP loads were around 22gr. with a corn meal filler.

[Gray Fox]

If you want a little more umph with a 35 grain fffg load see if you can find some KIK powder. Seems to work better than Goex for me in my .45s. GF

[TXGunNut]

A 2.5CC Lee scoop dispenses approximately 36-37grs KIK FFFg quite nicely for my 45 Colt BP loads. It'l do until I make my own scoop from a split case and some wire.

[Mike Brooks]

A 2.5CC Lee scoop dispenses approximately 36-37grs KIK FFFg quite nicely for my 45 Colt BP loads. It'l do until I make my own scoop from a split case and some wire.
I usually make my scoops for a 45LC from a 357 Mag case. works good.

[John Boy]

guess ill have to bite the bullet and get a couple cans of 3f GOEX to try in these 45colt rounds.Ted, you'll be sorry. FFFg will foul up harder than a woodpecker's beak. Why? To begin with Goex powders have too much creosote in the final product and with the smaller grains the bore will get a good doss especially with 40grs - a brick powder column. And Goex doesn't like heavy compression. About 0.2" is the borderline. Plus crimp hard to reduce blowback

Though discontinued, with 32-35gr of Cartridge - respectable load. That's why I bought every can my supplier had in his magazine

[joec]

Oh and by the way I shot FFg in my 45-70, 45 colt and shot shells. Never had good luck with the FFFg stuff at all.

[bigted]

i have not had any 3f for years and my cartridge does real well for me so far. the 35 grain load with the 1/8th cookie does very well and im limited only by my eyes i think altho...my unique loads do seem to do better then the greesers n cartridge. i need more playin with the bp loads to tell what is possible and will have a ball experimenting with it. im gonna ring out the cartridge before i try any 3f...might get some more 2f tho as im pretty impressed with it a few years ago.

[John Boy]

...might get some more 2f tho as im pretty impressed with it a few years ago. Ted, you may be limited to Goex up in the North Land but you would be wise to order a couple of grades of KIK from Powder Inc.
Might want to read about my test results with KIK:
* http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/forum/index.php?topic=106.0
* http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/forum/index.php?topic=107.0
* http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/forum/index.php?topic=108.0

Further, I have shot in multiple calibers, CAS, BPCR for accuracy - many powders: DuPont-Diamondback-Meteor-Austin-Goex-Schuetzen-Skirmish-Swiss and KIK. KIK is now my go to powder and the price is right, Period

Also, in them 45 Colts, you are wasting your time using wads or grease cookies. If I can shoot 200 rounds in a 2 day CAS match with no bore cleaning without wads or cookies and just one squirt of Eezox on the cylinders, there is support of neither of this in your reloads

[bigted]

john...am i to understand that you shoot 200 rounds thru your revolver without cleaning? and is your 1 squirt of eezox pointed at the cylinder face? and if so on the eezox...how many times do you do the 1 squirt ... per 200 rounds? also what is the load to enable a 200 round string without cleaning?

i guess im curious as to the accuracy of a rifle load shot thusly as well...my experience is that if no cookie used...the fouling is accuracy prohibitive. can this KIK 2FF really be that much superiour? would be nice to experience a bp that will enable this much shooting in a accurate fasion without the need to clean.

edit...GO 49ERS

[joec]

john...am i to understand that you shoot 200 rounds thru your revolver without cleaning? and is your 1 squirt of eezox pointed at the cylinder face? and if so on the eezox...how many times do you do the 1 squirt ... per 200 rounds? also what is the load to enable a 200 round string without cleaning?

i guess im curious as to the accuracy of a rifle load shot thusly as well...my experience is that if no cookie used...the fouling is accuracy prohibitive. can this KIK 2FF really be that much superiour? would be nice to experience a bp that will enable this much shooting in a accurate fasion without the need to clean.

edit...GO 49ERS

At the moment I have a couple pounds of Goex, Schuetzen, Swiss and KIK. I also like the KiK too. Now Goex has announced they are bringing out a new black powder that is supposed to be about the same as Swiss for a lower price. I plan on getting some as soon as it becomes available.

I squirt a solution of Balistol and water on my pistol and rifle between sets in cowboy action shooting. I follow this with a dry patch and a wipe down. Never had a problem with even my Rossi 92 rifle shooting black powder.

[John Boy]

Ted, clarification - 200 rounds. Two day match - 10 scenarios: 100 revolver rounds and 100 rifle rounds. Night of day 1, I just squirt the cylinder bolt and ratchets and hand with Eezox ONCE. Nothing done usually with the 'M92 Rossi.
As for KIK fouling control - if my tests don't support long shot strings, the statement would be just Internet words.
* Pictures of 1 wet cotton ball and 3 dry ones after a 50 shot string with 40 rounds from 500m back to 200m - no loss of accuracy
* Pictures of foul dried - weighed and Cx to original foul ... They don't lie. Do they?
And how did you like the KIK tight sieve ratios for Fg - 1.5Fg and FFg?

[bigted]

John...i do like the numbers and dont doubt your findings...i just have never had the accuracy stay more then 3 shots with my bp loads without a cookie to keep the fouling under control. to get kik here will cost me more for the shipping then the powder and i would have to buy a pallet which is around $250.00 + or - for just the shipping and that is for 1 one pound can or 50 1 pound cans...so the shipping is going to eat my shorts without ever having a chance to try it before expending some 3 to 5 hundred dollars...therefore the questions and wanting the re-asurance as to accuracy results to be obtained for the dollars spent. my accuracy has been 5 rounds in around 1 & 1/2 to 3 inch at 35 yards for the rifle without the cookies. my smokless accuracy is 5 rounds into 1/2 x 3/4 inch every time at the same 35 yard distance.

my cartridge loads with the cookies are promising but such a pain to load compared to the smokless and non-cookie loads. so if there is a chance i could shoot 50 or more rounds into the same group as the smokless or cookie loads with this KIK then i would and will be more responsive to making such an order.

so rather then doubt... i have curiousity about this powder and the benefits of such...thus the questions and desire to hear about your accuracy sucess in detail as well as your load column and grains and compression for these loads.

[Nobade]

Ted, what boolit are you using? I shoot the NOE "biglube" style one in my wife's Marlin and it will easily go 50 rounds here in the desert Southwest without fouling out. If I stop shooting I blow down the muzzle before proceeding but otherwise don't have to wipe during an entire silhouette match. That is shooting either KIK or homemade. Maybe you need a boolit that carries more lube? Or alternately a little smokeless kicker under the black? (I know you are familiar with how to do that!) I actually haven't tried duplexing 45 Colt ammo but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

[bigted]

boolit is the lyman 454190 250 grain flatpoint...[kinda on the flatpoint]...this boolit has 2 greese grooves the way i load them and taper crimp on the first band. i use my own lube consisting of 1/3rd bee wax...1/3rd crisco...1/3rd peanut oil. this has worked fairly well for me but maybe i need to use another lube . maybe i should try some SPG or get some NASA lube from bullshop.

i also think my lube is maybe a bit of the problem so guess i need to look at both powder and lube changes for a difference in outcomes.

concerning that boolit...do any others use it in a lever where the small flatpoint is but-to-nut so to speak with the primer of the shell ahead? i hesitate to load em in the tube as they apear to be small enough in the small flatpoint area to maybe ignite the shell in front thus making a very bad condition. maybe i do need to get another accurate mould on the way.

[w30wcf]

Ted,
I have used the vintage 454190 in my levergun with no issues. The flat point is just about the size of the primer so I don't think it is an issue (hasn't been to date) since the side wall of the primer provides plenty of support. I have found that Swiss will run for many shots with the 2 lube grooved bullet but I haven't had the same result with Goex, Schuetzen nor KIK, although KIK did the best of the 3.

"Maybe i do need to get another accurate mould on the way." That was my thought a year or 2 ago. I wanted a bullet that would run for many shots with the less expensive powders (Goex, etc.) and provide decent accuracy at extended ranges. I worked with Tom @ Accurate on a mold design for the 45 Colt that followed the profile of the 43-215C (44-40) which has proven to be an excellent down range performer with Goex.

Here is the bullet.:-D
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-260F-D.png

Have fun!
w30wcf

[bigted]

w30wcf...does this accurate boolit withstand the slam of bp without crushing that huge lube groove? i guess it must as you just said so...thanks...i must admit i looked at that very boolit and now that i have confirmation i may just have to order another brass mould from Tom in this configuration. thankyou for your post. does this boolit do well in a revolver as well?

[w30wcf]

Ted,
I have not shot them in a revolver yet but I suspect that they would work just fine. I have never recovered any bullets to see if there is a partial shortening of the lube groove. I would suspect in the standard 11-12 bhn alloy that I use most that if there is it sure hasn't affected the accuracy. :-D

If you want a dozen or so to try before buying a mold, send me a pm with your address.

w30wcf

[bigted]

thankyou...ordered the mould lastnite and am very anxious to recieve it. i also loaded some 250's with a duplex of 4 grains IMR 4227 hugging the primer with 36 grains cartridge to top it off. wish the snow would stop for me to give em a go.

[Mike Brooks]

I'm a KIK convert. Great stuff. I ordered 10 lbs a couple months ago and will be getting another 10lbs soon. 2ff by the way.

[cajun shooter]

Ted, I shot the 45Colt in SASS for about 2 years before changing to the 44WCF.
I used NASA lube in my 454190's and never had a single problem with my revolvers or my 92 with 20 in bbl. I used nothing but 35-37 grain loads as this also seals better than the lighter loads.
One other thing about BP and SASS matches shooting several rounds at one time.
I always used Mobil 1 grease on my cylinder center pin and bushing. I shoot USFA revolvers and they are designed with the removeable bushing as the early Colts had. At the end of every match my revolvers are spinning just as free as they did at Stage 1.
I've switched many a shooter over to it in the past 6 years.
I don't clean my guns until Tuesday or Wednesday and they are just like new. I use KIK in my revolvers and Diamondback in my shotgun shells.
After cleaning with Moosemilk I use Eezox on both the inside and outside of the revolver. If you have never used this product then go to the sticky section and look up the test that John Boy did several years back. It's the best thing since ice cream. Later David Dan and Tina are again selling NASA lube. The best I have ever used.