If You Were Starting Today w/ Nothing???

[ultramag]

I've been wrestling around with rather I want to get into casting or not. One of the first things I did was to hit some tire shops and rattle some friends cages and find out that free lead, or even scrap lead to buy, is going to be hard to come by in my parts. Most every source already has many more people after it already than they have scrap anymore. Not a big deal or deal breaker, seems availability in the $1.50-$2.00 /lb. range on the doorstep is still pretty easy.

I kind of put the notion to bed after not having much luck sourcing lead a couple months back and instead pursued commercial casters. It is amazing to me how many people are selling CB's. I've never even heard of most of these places, yet everytime I turn around I find a new one now. Anyway, I order some bullets commercially as well as from a couple hobbyist casters willing to sell a few. Long story short, all the home cast CB's out shoot the commercials. The commercial cast performance isn't bad necessarily, just bested quite handily by the home version. I think alloys, bullet types/shapes, and sizes are all playing a factor here of course but afterall that's part of what you'd be gaining casting your own so even if not apples/apples it's a fair comparison I think.

So, to bring this full circle, it seems like I should maybe look at casting for myself again. Dollar wise, it's not much of a gain for me. I've figured and figured and I think best case for .44 and .45 caliber slugs I might save .03 to .04 cents a bullet after I pay off my investment in my casting equipment and figure my time is worth nothing. I get that money isn't the only concern and it's not to me either, however it is part of the equation worth considering IMO. A better product is what has me looking at this again for the most part though. It does come down to money and time though somewhat as well. I love to tinker when I have time, but for some reason I'm not sure how much I'll enjoy bullet casting. Also, not sure how much of my time it will take and how much will be left for loading and range time.

I've looked at the Lyman Master Kit and am not really sure about some aspects of it. It seems I'm buying a lube-sizer and a good book and they are throwing in some other junk I'm gonna out grow quickly if I decide to keep casting. If it had a bottom pour pot I'd be much more interested in it. If I'm gonna ladle anyway I've got a hot plate and an old pot that won't cost much of anything other than buying a ladle. The other option I've considered is the much talked about Lee 20# bottom poor and tumble lubing for a while then just buying the Lyman book and then a ways down the road if I stick with it a lube-sizer. I'd be doing without a lube-sizer for a while I guess, but the second approach seems like I'd end up with better stuff for about the same if not a little less money in the end.

I'm intersted in what some of you veteran casters have to add to the thought process and how you would approach casting your own today knowing all you know. Save me some money and help me to avoid some mistakes. :coffeecom

[Catshooter]

Mmm. I guess that since I started casting in '71 or so I'd be considered a veteran. :)

I think in your shoes I'd gather up some new Lee equipment. Pot, moulds, what have you. Even if you never use them, they'd be there and you're not out much in the way of $.

To me, although the monetary outlay is important, the most important factor in casting is the independence of it all. For instance, I've had everything needed to cast/load for the 380 but never had. Some circumstances changed though and I deceided it was time to do so. This was in the very center of the Obummmer scare mind you.

Didn't matter to me though. I just went out to my shop and went to work. In a short while I had 350 rounds or so all ready to go.

Look at the poor people who live in New York state. In a years time all ammo purchases will require a background check. Think how handy that'll be for them. Their law was passed so fast that no one could have fought it.

So I would (and have) stock up so that I could cover anything much in the way of future needs without having to depend on outside sources. How would I feed if I needed primers now? Not too smart let me tell you.

Just my .02. Hope it helps. Welcome to the site by the way.


Cat

[45sixgun]

Sorry if this isn't helpful as I'm not a "veteran caster." I just got started less than a year ago on a super low budget. I heat my lead up in a cast iron pot I scrounged, on a propane burner I got cheap at Harbor Freight. I use a small kitchen ladle I got for a buck or two. I know ww's are hard to come by for most of us, but I was able to gather enough to get started. Now every time I'm out shooting I try to save my own bullets with some kind of backstop (not too successful at this) and I spend some time picking up bullets from others. I was practically given some molds. I use a cheap Lee (classic turret) press and hand lube. You probably have more money to spend, and this might not be helpful, but it works out great for me and I couldn't be having more fun casting, reloading, and shooting. Good luck, and hope you get set up soon! I agree that self cast are better than commercial.

[462]

If doing it all over, my Top Ten list would be:
1. Two Lee 20-pound, bottom pour furnaces, one for each alloy I use
2. RCBS Lub-A-Matic
3. Lyman sizing dies (standard sizes)
4. Buckshot's sizing dies (non-standard sizes)
5. Theperfessor's top punches
6. Lyman ingot mould
7. Both the 3rd and 4th editions of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook
8. The 45th edition (1970) of Lyman's Reloading Handbook
9. For traditional boolit designs, either older, used Ideal or Lyman four-cavity, or current Lee six-cavity moulds.
10. For non-traditional boolit designs, Accurate

[Cherokee]

I like to build things. I like to be self-sufficient as practical for me. I like to shoot & factory ammo is expensive. I started reloading in 1958. I also bought reloads from a LGS. Then came the Army. I bought cast bullets thru the mail from Green Bay Bullets at first but the 1968 law killed that. When I exited the Army, I tried some commercial cast and was not impressed. So, I bought a Lyman 358477 for my 38 & 357, an iron pot and a hot plate. Then an old used Lyman 45 sizer and some lube. My bullets looked better and shot just as good or better, and cost me a lot less. I was using cheap Linpotype and lead. I was busy with a family and long work hours but I enjoyed my time casting/reloading/shooting. Now retired, I get to spend as much time with the hobby as I want and continue to enjoy it, especially the shooting part, which is really the point of it all. You'll never know until you try it, so I say - go for it. You don't have to start big or "new", I didn't. Hope this rambling helps some.

[geargnasher]

I cast buckets of .38s for years with a bent spoon and a saucepan. It doesn't have to be expensive to work well. Consider how you'd like to do your lubing as well, that can be an investment of time and money that might "break the deal" so to speak.

I started casting because I was a broke high-school kid who loved to plink with centerfires. That continued for many years for the same reason, but also with quality and being able to make my individual guns happy by choosing the right design and sizing appropriately. Now, I can't imagine doing it any other way than casting my own. I have thousands invested in tools related to smelting, casting, sizing, and lubing now, so really I haven't saved much money, but I can roll my own any time, and last I looked bullets were getting pretty scarce on store shelves.

Gear

[wingnut49b]

I started casting a couple years ago, and really only work on it a couple months in the winter. I figure I'll never save any money, probably because I seem to buy nice equipment as fast as I can... It doesn't matter, I like it. You do to, or you wouldn't be here asking!

I started with a Lee bottom pour pot, and a Star sizer. No complaints from me on either one.

You can get lead on here for around a buck a pound shipped, or I have no trouble finding scrapyard lead for .50 -.75 a pound. For $2/lb you can get foundry lead.

Most of all, pick something and start assuming you can spare the time. Stockpile some lead for a couple hundred bucks, and you'll not have to worry about shortages like this one quite the same anymore.

[gunoil]

i work at ft bragg, and pick up spent lead out of berms and brass by bucket fulls. I fo scoot around town once in a while and ask truck tire stores how much they can spare. Never had problem. Sometimes i may call tjconevera.com in chi town and buy a box of total metal jacket copper plated bullets. Their cheap, not berry's. Powder's been easy to get, small pistol primers are not.

20lb lee pot, wish they made a 30lb. 45acp mold (90352) from lee, & 2 cav lee mold that make boolits that scale at 107gr, work good in 9mm and 380's. Dont have 40cal mold but dont shoot much 40s&w. Just 45/9.

I have lee classic turret (9&380)press. Its great. Also have lee loadmaster for 45's and 40s&w.

Like said above, get every angle you can get. Youtube helped me out too! About 2 years of loading.

[Bigslug]

Buy good molds with lots of cavities. This is where your quality control starts, and it pays to do it right. The products of Accurate and NOE I can vouch for personally, and Mountain, Mihec, and Ballisti-Cast get plenty of good press here, and none of them cost substantially more than the mass-market competition. The ability to drop LOTS of boolits, quickly, without having to beat on them, or deal with changing mold specs and spotty Q.C. is worth the investment.

[asp]

There are plenty of folks here that are new to the casting. I have been doing it about 6 months and knowing what I know now, I would still go through. I agree with what's been said- it's all about self sufficiency. I don't have to depend on anyone for my bullets and it saves a ton of $ to boot.

[**oneshot**]

The initial investment can be daunting, but it does pay off. I thought of it like the cheap weekend away camping. Yes it is a cheap vacation after you buy the tent, the stove, the sleeping bags, etc..... But the more you do it the faster it will pay for itself.

[dverna]

You will never regret buying quality.

The only reason to cast most pistol bullets (at least those used to punch paper or ring steel) is to save money. You can buy really good bullets from someone like Dardas. I bought bullets until I retired and had time to do it.

You will probably need to cast your own to get rifle bullets that meet your needs (accuracy/hardness/velocity)

For molds, nothing less than 4 cavities if you shoot a lot (IPSC, Bullseye, etc).

Don

[fecmech]

I like a couple things about the casting hobby and I've been doing it since 1970. Number one is the independence and the other is cost. Bullets are the big cost with centerfire reloading and if you can get lead cheaply all the handgun calibers cost about the same to shoot as good .22 ammo. I enjoy casting. I've said this many times in the past that I feel like I'm getting away with something. I can take old dirty Wheel wts, lead scraps etc and turn them into top quality accurate bullets. That's a good feeling.
My advice would be if money is tight for you go with the Lee 20 lb. bottom pour and 6 cavs for handguns. I'd watch this board for as used lubrisizer, a Lyman or RCBS and used dies also. If you later decide to upgrade to a Star sizer you won't loose a nickle selling your old one here. Get your feet wet with a caliber you want to shoot a lot and get some experience with the hobby and then you will know better what you want and need. You will not save money! But you will shoot one hell of a lot more and enjoy it more also. Good luck, come on in,the water's fine.

[JIMinPHX]

I cast with a Master Caster set for a few years & was satisfied with it. I do prefer a bottom pour pot & I do think that 20# is a big improvement over 10. I was OK making about 200 boolits at a time with the dipper & the 10# pot (really 8# but they call it 10).

If I wanted to make a lot of boolits on a bit of a budget, I would get a Lee 20# bottom pour pot, Lee 6-cav mold & Lee size kit. With the ammo prices I saw at Gander Mountain the other day, that's about the same money that you would spend on 5 boxes of large caliber pistol ammo.

If my budget allowed, I would move up to a lubrasizer. If you are going to use hard lube, the sizer will need a heater, or else you will need to wave something like a torch over it once in a while.

[Inkman]

If I wanted to make a lot of boolits on a bit of a budget, I would get a Lee 20# bottom pour pot, Lee 6-cav mold & Lee size kit. With the ammo prices I saw at Gander Mountain the other day, that's about the same money that you would spend on 5 boxes of large caliber pistol ammo.


That is exactly what i did. It is cheap enough that if you get out, you're not out a ton of cash, yet you can cast, tumble lube and size a ton of boolits w/o too much effort. If you have the time and can find cheap lead or free lead, the savings are enormous.

Now......if somebody could just show me how to make smokeless powder and large/small primers, i would be truely free lol!!

Al

[Artful]

I guess if I have to think about it
- first I'd see what I had on hand I could re-task towards casting
- Coleman Stove - Propane turkey cooker - etc. What heat source do you have or can you find at a garage sale cheap.

I'd try to do it outside so as to not have to worry about ventilation. I'd get a sturdy pot (non Teflon) from the goodwill / 2nd hand - cast Iron is great stuff.
And buy a good ladle - you can use a spoon but a good ladle is miles above a spoon in my experience.
Saw Dust for flux
- I'd go 6 Cavity Lee mold for pistol bullets - used molds work well for cheap as well - If I wanted specific Rifle I'd pick up a good mold from Accurate, NOE or other vender here.

I'd tumble or pan lube if I couldn't afford a lube-sizer and try and find a used Lyman 450 or RCBS lubesizer - if I was wanting to do a lot of shooting I'd get a STAR if at all possible.
You can wrap waterpipe heating cord around a lube reservoir to heat with or even a heating pad if you need too for stiff lubes.

Would this be optimum setup - no, but it wouldn't break most budgets to start out with - I'd go with Lee's 20 lb pot if I had the money to spare
and I'd buy two if I could do it. But a lot of this depends upon what you want to cast - a ton of pistol pills - a few good rifle pills - it makes a difference.

Getting a lead source is important - You can buy boxes of lead from members here - local sources are better/cheaper lots of times.

Find someone who casts thru your local gun club or the forum here if at all possible.

[johnny-appleweed]

I have been reloading off and on for 30 years. I am now ready to start casting. I have a new 20# pot on the way(should be here 2/1). I would like to find a good 4 cav mold for 9mm/ 38sp 120gr and a lube sizer. these will be the ladt pieces I need to get sterted. WHO HAS A GOOD MOLD???... IS ALUM ANY GOOD??? I have 1500 38 wad cutters but I dont think they will chamber in my HI-POINT 9mm carbine.

[TXGunNut]

Welcome to the forum!
I got into casting just a little while back with a "go big or go home" mindset and it served me well. OTOH I learned that there was little need for a shop full of expensive equipment to produce quality boolits. Most of my casting is done with 6-cavity Lee moulds, the appropriate Lee sizer and LLA tumble lube. I have a Lyman sizer and moulds that I use on occasion and wouldn't try to get by without them.
You've already learned that the big commercial casters don't meet your needs but the small casters may help you learn which boolit suits your needs before you invest in a mould. Jerry's Carolina Bullets is a member here, haven't bought anything from him but seems like a good guy.
If you are a tinkerer and a reloader I think you'll enjoy casting. Since you're a reloader you should already know you won't save any money casting, at least for awhile, but you'l be casting better boolits than you can buy. Buy or borrow the Lyman book, read the stickies and other threads that interest you around here and gather up some alloy and maybe a good pot. Determine your goals and equipment needs, formulate a budget and decide if this is something you want to do. I'm thinking you'll be pouring lead in no time.

[jdgabbard]

My outlook on this is pretty simple. You're eventually going to want to cast faster. Do yourself a favor. Just go ahead and buy a 20lb pot from lee. Don't mess with the master caster kit unless you're doing it just for the Lube sizer (which is roughly priced about the same as that kit if I do remember, and I do suggest the lube sizer). Buy a six cavity lee mold for what you're wanting. And whether using a lube sizer or lee push through sizers, buy the appropriate size dies.

I spent so much money upgrading to this or that, and at the end of the day, could have saved a bunch of money. Just start out with what you know you're going to end up wanting to get.

[Suo Gan]

This is a fairly cheap hobby compared to Harly's, bass fishin, RVing and the like. A couple grand scattered over four or five years for tools that make you self sufficient, and can be passed down from father to son, or grandson is not that expensive. But it really depends on what kind of guy you are, you don't really need a dozen bullet styles for your 30-30 and complete automation if you don't shoot in huge volume. Buy quality equipment and don't get to crazy because the new will wear off, and money can get wasted on things that will never be used is my first advice. Just don't get too far ahead of yourself. Pace yourself and the hobby will reward you with actual dollars saved.

[MT Chambers]

1. RCBS melting pot (22 lbs)
2. Star sizer/luber w/airfeed and heated base
3. Bullet molds by Lyman, Rcbs, Saeco, Noe, LBT, Accurate, Mountain Molds, Hoch, etc.
Do it right the first time, cheap is as cheap does.

[Jack Stanley]

I started out buying cast pistol bullets from a commercial source back in the seventies . It was so much fun I bought what I needed to cast rifle bullets .

Today it would be much the same but with the experience I have I think I'd concentrate on making the rifles shoot well first . I'd buy the few pistol bullets I use untill I started shooting them up by the ammo can full .

Equipment would be the best I could afford , I've learned buy once cry once actually saves me money .

Jack

[JIMinPHX]

I would like to find a good 4 cav mold for 9mm/ 38sp 120gr and a lube sizer. these will be the ladt pieces I need to get sterted. WHO HAS A GOOD MOLD???... IS ALUM ANY GOOD??? I have 1500 38 wad cutters but I dont think they will chamber in my HI-POINT 9mm carbine.

I'm a pretty big fan of the 125 gr RNFP from Lee. It comes in either a 2-cav or 6 cav mold. With the 6-cav, you need to buy handles separately. The 2-cav comes with handles. I use that same boolit in both .38 spl & 9mm. It feeds in most, but not all 9-irons.

[ultramag]

Thanks for the input so far. I guess I'm in....picked up a Lee Pro 4-20 at the LGS this afternoon. Now onto a mold or two if I can find something in-stock that won't take two months to ship and some lead. I guess those two items and a few incidentals should get me started.

[Indio]

If starting from scratch...

Lee 20lb bottom pour
4 cavity (or more) mold
Lee/buckshot push thru sizing die
Tumble or pan lube

Any spare $ would go towards a second lee 20lb pot so I can switch pots as one empties keeping the mold up at temp and the empty pot can be refilled and brought up to casting temp... It's all about keeping the flow going IMO

[johnny-appleweed]

hay JIMinPHX What were the no. on that 6 cav LEE 135gr mold. Would they chamber in my 9mm Hi-Point carbine. I would like to buy a 6 cav mold that will work in the 9 carbine and my 357, I want to get the right one the first time.
I would also like to find someone local to sell me a second hand lube and sizer and about an hour of training.
I am all ready to start a jurney, I have all the lead I could ever use (900 pounds of ww in 2.5 lb muffins) I have 1000 9mm/ 1200 38 brass along with a few thousand primers.
By the time I am done with that I want to work on ALL my rifles

[Artful]

Johnny-appleweed - if you notice JiminPhx said 125 grain - most seem to like this one
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9337&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1251127477

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/916523/lee-6-cavity-bullet-mold-358-125-rf-38-special-357-magnum-38-colt-new-police-38-s-and-w-358-diameter-125-grain-flat-nose