Sorting lead from indoor range rubber

[fishnhunt]

Has anyone had any experience sorting expended rounds from a shredded tire (rubber) backstop? Any advise would be appreciated!!

[220swiftfn]

Float it out...... (you might have to use salt, but the lead will NEVER float....)


Dan

[runfiverun]

15-20% salt.

[fishnhunt]

I thought that might work; some are concerned about what to do with the "contaminated" water - ?

[bslim]

This whole process is very involved but well worth it. I get a lot of lead from an indoor range that uses rubber blocks for a backstop. I pick it up in 5 gal. pails for transportation purposes. The large chunks of rubber are removed by hand. I use a Dillon media sperater to get the small/dirt particles out and hand sort the rest, removing the rubber from the bullets. I thought about floating out the rubber, but couldn't get my head around having water trapped in the lead and causing me some headaches when smelting. The copper jackets are worth up to $2/lb. This pays for my travel expenses, fuel for smelting and labor for sorting out the lead from the rubber.

[oneokie]

I thought that might work; some are concerned about what to do with the "contaminated" water - ?

If you are on a municipal sewage system, just flush it down the toilet.

[Jim]

The saturation point of salt in water at 72* F. is 35 G of salt to 100 ML of water. That solution equates to 46 (dry) ounces of salt to a gallon of water. The maximum density of water is achieved at 4* C or 39.2* F. If salt is dissolved at room temperature to maximum saturation and the solution is then chilled to 39* F., some of the salt will solidify. The remaining solution will yield the maximum buoyancy factor.

[2ridgebacks]

I really am hesitant to reply to this thread as my process has insured me of a good supply. However, it is CB, and here is my contribution. I've tried salt water (too slow, messy, and what to do with the water), scattering it out and blowing off the light stuff with a leaf blower (too much chance of contamination and you lose to many fine particles IMO), and a vacuum with a hepa filter. Hands down, the shop vac with the hepa filter is the way to go.
You need to think of an aquarium vacuum to understand this. Get a PVC adapter for the shop vac tube up to about 4 inches or 6 inches. Add the appropriate pipe about 30-36" long. Install the hepa filter in the vacuum and go to town. I got my best results when I dumped the "ore" into a very large Rubbermaid that goes under the bed to make it shallow. Dabbing at the ore the vac lifts the light particles and drops the heavy stuff. Even the very fine dust stays behind. My range wants the crumb rubber back as it is expensive to buy and this way it is uncontaminated and very clean. If the vac isn't picking up enough offal, then shorten the tube. If you are picking up lead, then lengthen the pipe. I've processed close to a ton this way and experimented with the other methods. This gives you the cleanest scrap to melt with the least smoke. You will lose a few jackets, but I'm a lead caster, not a copper scrapper.

[fishnhunt]

2 Ridge,
Thanks for the reply! This really intrigues me and may be the answer. Can you explain the vacuum system more completely? Where do you place the HEPA filter on the vacuum? Where do you find a filter? Will any shop vac work? I don't understand the sentence: "I got my best results when I dumped the "ore" into a very large Rubbermaid that goes under the bed to make it shallow." I am assuming that the lead and most jackets stay on the range back/floor and you scoop them with a shovel? Thanks for any help!!
Jim

[2ridgebacks]

I was starting to feel like I farted in church or something. It went crickets in here...
We'll define ore as any material that contains bullet fragments be it crumb rubber, dirt, or other media. I have a 5hp shop vac that I use. I have used a 2.5 hp and it was fine. It just didn't hold as much media and you had to dump it far more often. I'd like to adapt the vac head to a garbage can or 55 gal drum really. The HEPA filters are available at Lowe's or Home Despot, or any other store that sells shop vac accessories. You remove the original filter and put in the HEPA. Simple. I also have a dedicated hose for this as well. When our indoor range was set up, a club member and engineer, and filter sales rep set us up with HEPA filters for the range filtration. If they use 'em I'm usin' 'em. The end of the hose is where the magic happens. Google an aquarium vacuum if you aren't familiar with the concept. This thing leaves behind even the smallest of shavings. Now to the process.
1. I dump a 5 gal bucket of ore into a large, under bed rubber made so that it is a relatively thin layer of material.
2. Turn on the vac and dab at the ore drawing the material into the chamber. It is a low grade vacuum relative to the suction in a normal size tube. The ore will tumble and fall and give up all of the lead (ymmv).
3. After you see a good layer of lead on top, stir the remaining material to bring the rubber to the top.
4. Repeat.
I process a few buckes before emptying the vac and the tub. At that point the tub should be almost entirely lead. You shouldn't see any trace of lead in the vacuum. If you do, especially fines, go to a larger head on the vacuum so that you aren't pulling the heavy stuff up into the tube. When you smelt, it will be much cleaner with considerably less smoke. I've tried other ways. This is quicker than water and cleaner than a leaf blower.
Your other question. Our back stop in slanted and all of the bullets are in a very small cavity about 12" square and about 18" deep. We are bullseye shooters you know.

[fishnhunt]

2Ridge,
thanks again - I think I can see it now. Looking forward to trying this out!
'Preciate it!
Jim

[runfiverun]

i see what's up here.
you could actually use this in/at the range itself to move the rubber away from the lead.
get the lead.
then sweep the rubber and such back in place.

[2ridgebacks]

You probably could, but regardless of the filter I have in my vac the club members are leery of using it in the backstop. If you did have some lead get through you would broadcast it all over the inside of the range. That wouldn't be good. With two people, this is a fairly efficient process and you can process a bunch quickly.

[DukeInFlorida]

I did a range once BY HAND.... Picking the lead out of the rubber, one bullet at a time. took four days, and only scratched the surface. Got all the pockets of bullets, but never got very deep into the pile.

My method was certainly NOT the right way to do it.

BTW, one of the downsides of these bullets (jacketed bullets, fired into shredded rubber) is that the jackets do NOT get cracked open during shooting/impact. To properly melt the lead out will require smacking the bullets with a hammer or other heavy tool to crack em. I have four remaining buckets of this stuff that is a royal pain to smelt for that reason. Wish there was a "shredder" for bullets.

[2ridgebacks]

We use a garden trowel to rake the material into 5 gallon buckets. We generate 13-15 buckets out of 10 lanes. That is where scattering the material in the tub comes in. Takes 2 guys less than 2 hours to clean and replace the backstop material.

[2ridgebacks]

I did a range once BY HAND.... Picking the lead out of the rubber, one bullet at a time. took four days, and only scratched the surface. Got all the pockets of bullets, but never got very deep into the pile.

My method was certainly NOT the right way to do it.

BTW, one of the downsides of these bullets (jacketed bullets, fired into shredded rubber) is that the jackets do NOT get cracked open during shooting/impact. To properly melt the lead out will require smacking the bullets with a hammer or other heavy tool to crack em. I have four remaining buckets of this stuff that is a royal pain to smelt for that reason. Wish there was a "shredder" for bullets.

You have certainly been at this much longer than I have. I don't question that jackets that aren't broken don't cause problems either. It has been my experience though that the jackets are cracked on impact with other bullets in the backstop or when more bullets are fired in on top of them. To qualify that, I'll say this; we shoot bullseye pistol almost exclusively and the bullets are contained in small pockets, the only jacketed comes from plinkers or the CCW match. I have yet to see a jacketed or plated bullet that made it through the melt intact. I did start using a lid, and I have had a few squirters. In over a ton for myself and at least a half ton with a friend, this has been my experience. In other words, don't fear the jackets.

[fishnhunt]

Ridge,
I'm interested in knowing if you use a mask when working an indoor range or does one need to invest in a 3M-style respirator??
Thanks!

[2ridgebacks]

The guys that are digging the berm wear at least a paper mask. Cartridge filters have been used on occasion. IMO, lead dust is heavy enough that you aren't likely to stir it into the air by digging it into a bucket. The masks are cheap insurance against an unseen enemy though.