Reforming 444 cases for the 410

[jim4065]

I bought a Governor 2 weeks ago (don't know why) and I'm amazed at the price of 410 ammo. So naturally I bought a new MEC 600, Jr loader, hulls, Alliant 410 powder, shot, etc. (Ain't it great to save money?) Yesterday I bought a 410 pump - since I have all the other stuff on order. Don't shoot my Marlin 444 much anymore, so I'm thinking of fire forming the RP brass to fit the Governor - but I don't have a clue how much powder to use.
Can anyone suggest a safe load?

This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAnbDvLIAac seems a little extreme.

[jumbeaux]

A few years back the Backwoodsman Magazine had an excellant article on utilizing 444 brass in the 410....you may be able to find it online.....I also believe that back issues are available.....

rick

[LUTNIT]

I fireform 303 British to 410 using 5 grains of Unique, fill the case to 90% with cream of wheat, and top it off with hot glue. Usually I need to do this twice per case to get them well formed. Also since it's a bottleneck case I get about 1 in 4 that crack badly even with very heavy annealing (way more than you ever want to use normally; glowing red brass).

[rbuck351]

I just pick a load for the 410 and use it with 444 cases. They are very strong compared to plastic so I don't worry about pressure with any normal 410 load. Plastic 410 wads don't fit very tight in the 444 case and they take up quite a bit of room. I use a 44 gas check cup down over the powder then a thin cardboard wad, 3/4 oz shot and another over shot wad glued in on top. Been shooting them in a Savage 22/410 with good results. I don't remember for sure but I think I ran them through a 45acp sizer die first,

[jim4065]

I just pick a load for the 410 and use it with 444 cases. They are very strong compared to plastic so I don't worry about pressure with any normal 410 load. Plastic 410 wads don't fit very tight in the 444 case and they take up quite a bit of room. I use a 44 gas check cup down over the powder then a thin cardboard wad, 3/4 oz shot and another over shot wad glued in on top. Been shooting them in a Savage 22/410 with good results. I don't remember for sure but I think I ran them through a 45acp sizer die first,

What powder do you use with that? I bought some Alliant 410, and still have some WC820.

[gutpile]

Folks,
I am now have a new project.......303 or.....444 to 410 and 3 or 4 41 cal boolits and or slugs......elderly and.youth deer hunting!!!!! low recoil and I bet DEADLY out to 50 yards!!!! great guys So much for saving money LOL

[I'll Make Mine]

Three or four boolits, and you figure on low recoil? You shooting at 400 ft/s or something? Well, again, you might be, to get a safe load for that much weight in a .410...

[smoked turkey]

I am interested in reloading some 410 in 444 cases as this thread and some others have talked about. I tried a fired 444 case in my mossberg bolt action 410 as well as some already formed 30-40 Krag and 303 British in it as well. The case rim on all those cases is thicker than 410 cases. As such the bolt will not close on the brass cases. Is this a fluke with me or normal for some 410 actions?

[mnkyracer]

Turkey - I have an H&R .410 that I can use .303B and .444 brass in without issues. With 30-40, I need to work on the rim first (too wide).

[jim4065]

I am interested in reloading some 410 in 444 cases as this thread and some others have talked about. I tried a fired 444 case in my mossberg bolt action 410 as well as some already formed 30-40 Krag and 303 British in it as well. The case rim on all those cases is thicker than 410 cases. As such the bolt will not close on the brass cases. Is this a fluke with me or normal for some 410 actions?

Son of a gun! I have the same problem with my WesternField pump (but not, of course, with the S&W Governor). As a test, I just tried some new, unloaded MagTech brass cases in the pump, and they worked OK (but tight). Since, in the interest of saving money, I bought a new MEC 600 Mark 5, I guess I'll load the plastic cases on it for use in either gun, and save the brass 444's for loading with the Lane's Tool for the Governor only. Thinning 250 of the inside lip of the 444 cases seems like a miserable job. I bought a 000 Lee mold just so I can work up a load like the Federal 410 Handgun load (with 4 000 buckshot). Now this is starting to get a little complicated. Just solved it!
I took an R-P 444 empty (and deprimed) case and inserted it into the Lane's Reloading 410 sizer die, so only the rim stuck out. Put the die in the padded jaws of the vise and filed off the "R-P 444 Marlin" stamped in characters, then tapped the case out with the Lane's cross piece. (See "lanesreloading.com"). I tested the case in both the guns - works A-OK. Next I primed with a CCI Large Rifle (300) primer using a Lee "squeeze priming" tool with the #11 shellholder. The primer easily seated 1 or 2 thousandths below the filed off rim. Anybody see a problem with this? I should still have a case many times stronger than the plastic 410 cases, right?

[smoked turkey]

jim4065, very interesting. I am curious what comments you get on this. I have fired the 303Brit, 30-40 Krag and ofcourse the 444 in my Marlin 444 as shot loads with so-so results. I haven't tried them yet in my 45/410 Contender. I think using the 444 brass would be a neat thing in the 410, but apparently it only works in a few shotguns without reducing the rim thickness. Still a dedicated box of 25 would last a very long time.

[M Hicks]

Jim,

I have had a Governor for a little while now. I briefly went through the "why did I get this thing" mind set also. After messing with it for a bit I have become impressed with it. Some argue that you can load numerous shot shell cartridges with the plastic cups into the 357, 44 and other calibers. I can't recall who makes them but they are blue and have a little clear cap.

I use 444 brass for my Governor. I use a 45 colt sizing die and just hit the last inch or so of the brass when resizing. I still need to work on some buckshot loads but I did find a good load using #8 shot. 13.5 grains of 2400 under an STS wad with shot to the top of the wad. I use duco cement to seal an overshot card in place. It is set off by a WLP primer. It patterns very well at 7 yards given the short barrel of the Governor.

[jim4065]

My Governor is having a problem firing CCI Large Rifle primers. The FTF cases show a Very light primer indentation. Either the mainspring is weak or the firing pins are too short (either one means a trip to S&W) or the primers are too strong. No problem firing Federal 000 buckshot loads. Anyone else with this problem?

Also, I'm using Waterglass for sealing the overshot cards. Bought it on ebay at $25 for a gallon, including frt. I use a plastic squeeze bottle to fill the space above the OS card. The only "storage" problem is that the tube gets full of hard waterglass if it sits overnight, but a needle cleans it out easy.

[Tackleberry41]

I have been making 410 shells from 303 recently. I have a lathe so getting the rims right isn't a problem, take off enough so the rim stamps disappear. A pistol primer will work solving the light primer strike issue.

After a decent annealing have yet for one to split fire forming. They look a bit funny as the bottom part never really expands so a bit of a reverse bottle neck shell. But they do work, no idea on longevity.

[smoked turkey]

I see that this old thread has been resurrected. It is still good reading. I wanted to comment on my "waterglass" experience. As many already know, this was the product used way back when brass shotshells were first loaded. I recently started loading 2.5" brass shotshells for my old 16 ga double barrel. I wanted to do it the old way and spent a lot of time looking locally for the product. Most places that used to carry it no longer do so. In fact most folks just stare at you when you ask if they have waterglass. It is one of those products that seemingly has run it course. My persistence paid off at the auto parts supplier. I am sure there are other uses for it now, but what I found is a product used for sealing engine blocks, radiators, heads, heater cores, and freeze plugs. It is also known as liquid glass. The main ingredient is sodium silicate (liquid glass). I purchased a 22.8 oz. bottle of the product "seal-up". The cost was a bit over $7 and easily contains a lifetime supply. I believe the shelf life on the product is limited. However I think it will last a few years before it hardens up as long as the container is kept tightly closed. The product I found had very small copper granules that settles out of the water glass and I just filtered it through a paint strainer to remove almost all of the copper. I have used it very successfully to seal the over shot cards in my 16 ga brass shotshells and like it. I apply it with a small plastic squeeze bottle that dispenses one drop at a time. If someone has wanted "waterglass" this will do the job at a small cost and is probably available locally.