Anyone have a good 44 magnum rifle load using Unique Powder?

[daddyseal]

I have a friend with a cowboy lever RIFLE who is looking for good groups at 250 yards with his 240gr boolits using Unique.
(The only powder he has)
Does anybody here know one?

[HATCH]

according to Alliant the pistol load is 11 grains with a 250gr boolit.

[daddyseal]

Thanks
He's wanting one for his cowboy action rifle though...at farther distance (250 yards) than pistol shots.

[Shuz]

according to Alliant the pistol load is 11 grains with a 250gr boolit.

That load should be safe in a rifle also;provided the boolit is not oversized, or the bore too small.

[Doc65]

I think what he's getting at is CAN he push it harder in a rifle than in a pistol, that probably depends on WHICH rifle, though only a chrono & some careful workup of loads would really answer the question. For instance it's a different question depending on if he is looking at a 73' clone vs a 92' clone vs one of the limited runs of Browning or Winchester 92s or 94s.

Personally I think even factory full house 44 mags in a 73 would be questionable, but would do it all day long in my 92 clone(it really like some stiff loaded Lyman 429215s)

[daddyseal]

That load should be safe in a rifle also;provided the boolit is not oversized, or the bore too small.
Would that give him tight groups at 250 yards?

[daddyseal]

I think what he's getting at is CAN he push it harder in a rifle than in a pistol, that probably depends on WHICH rifle, though only a chrono & some careful workup of loads would really answer the question. For instance it's a different question depending on if he is looking at a 73' clone vs a 92' clone vs one of the limited runs of Browning or Winchester 92s or 94s.

Personally I think even factory full house 44 mags in a 73 would be questionable, but would do it all day long in my 92 clone(it really like some stiff loaded Lyman 429215s)

He says it's a Marlin 1894 rifle.

[HATCH]

your gonna make me look it up now....

According to my RCBS Cast Bullet manual #1 (circa 1986)
Rifle
200 gr fn
13.5 grs 1616fps
12.5 grs 1502 fps

there isn't a listing for the 225 swc,240swc,245swc or 250 swc for unique powder for rifle loads
What is funny is that there are pistol loads listed

225 gr 11.8 - 1299fps = 10.8 1179
240 gr 13.1 - 1454fps = 12.1 1361
245 gr 11.8 - 1330 = 10.8 1212


When i get home I can look at my 67 book and see whats the listing if you want.

[daddyseal]

your gonna make me look it up now....

According to my RCBS Cast Bullet manual #1 (circa 1986)
Rifle
200 gr fn
13.5 grs 1616fps
12.5 grs 1502 fps

there isn't a listing for the 225 swc,240swc,245swc or 250 swc for unique powder for rifle loads
What is funny is that there are pistol loads listed

225 gr 11.8 - 1299fps = 10.8 1179
240 gr 13.1 - 1454fps = 12.1 1361
245 gr 11.8 - 1330 = 10.8 1212


When i get home I can look at my 67 book and see whats the listing if you want.
If 240 gr. with 13.1 grs of Unique works well in a revolver, why would it not be good in a long gun?
He just emailed me that he's gone up to 11 grs, and experienced primer "push back".
But a friend with the same rifle, who got that same result went up to 12 grs and the primer issue stopped.
Does that sound right, HATCH?

[Blammer]

Would that give him tight groups at 250 yards?

lots of practice, 250 yds is a LONG way to sling a 44 cal bullet, your drop will probably be several feet

[HATCH]

that is MAX .
There are several factors you need to look at.
If the primer is physically "pushing back" ie the primer is depriming itself then I would lean towards a sloppy primer pocket.
Normally on higher pressure you will get a dimple with a ring formed around it (if that makes any sense?)

There are a lot more seasons fellows on here then me. The few times I have loaded 44 mag its been basically on the weak side for my dad. 8.5 grains of unique with a 220 grain boolit.

What I would do..... Load up three or four rounds ea.
Starting at 10.0 grains.... like 10.0, 10.5,11.00, 11.5, 12.00,12.5, 13.0
thats only 28 rounds..
If he has a 240 grain boolit the 13.0 would be the max I would use.
there are other factors you need to check besides powder charge. Overall loaded length is a HUGE factor. If he is seating the boolit too deep it will increase the pressure.

[The Kid]

When working up loads for my cousin's scoped H&R Handirifle in 44mag. I had zero luck getting any bullet to shoot well with Unique. I tried both cast and jacketed from 215 to 310 grains, groups at 100yds looked like buckshot patterns @ 8" for 5 shots. I was a little sad because I have several loads that shoot great with Unique from my revolvers. A switch to Accurate #9 made a world of difference, that and figuring out that the loads needed to be on the top end of the load chart before accuracy would appear. We ended up settling on a Lyman 429215 cast hard, lubed with RCBS green, check by Hornady, and enough AA9 to get 1875fps. Shoots lights out and should be mighty potent for deer and hogs.
On a side note, the cheapo Winchester white box 240jhp load shoots great out of this rifle. I didn't run them over a chronograph but they certainly crack and buck like they are really cooking.

[daddyseal]

lots of practice, 250 yds is a LONG way to sling a 44 cal bullet, your drop will probably be several feet
then how about 200 yrds?

[Blammer]

give it a go and let us know. With Unique I suspect you will run into pressure problems before you get a really good velocity.

I shot steel silly wet with my RSRH 44mag revolver 7.5" brl. My hold over with the 200 meter rams using 9-10gr of unique and a 240gr bullet was approximately 2 feet or more.

[runfiverun]

defining good groups from a lever rifle at 200 yds is measured in inches not moa's
if he's getting 6" groups with open sights he's good.
adding more powder won't help.
have him try someting with a 240gr boolit and about 9.5 grs of unique.
that will topple a ram at 200 meters.

[Blammer]

I am looking forward to hearing his results. I have a 44mag rifle but have not stretched it that far yet. :)

[Jarel]

I have a 629 and a Henry big boy. The 629 does fine with Unique powder but my big boy does not. I am shooting my cast bullet with a GC. With almost every shot I have a very hard time extracting the brass. So I tried a much slower powder H110 and the problem went away. I changed nothing else.

[Larry Gibson]

Bear with us here....the problem with your question is we have absolutely no idea what the quality of the bullets your friend is using are (not even the alloy, lube, etc.), the quality of his loading ability and, particularly, his shooting ability. We can assume the Marlin is in good condition but does the barrel have MicroGroove or Ballard rifling? Thus to give you a load that would give "good groups" at 250 yards is difficult. We don't even know what the parameters of "good groups" means to your friend. See the problems

I suggest your friend understand there is no internet shortcut to accuracy. Lets assume he is a competent reloader and knows how to cast bullets (or is he using commercial cast?) and can shoot. I suggest, since there is no internet short cut, that he "work up" an accurate load the old fashioned way. First, 250 yards is a fair shot for most so lets understand that a cast SWC with a short nose and a bevel base (most likely if commercial cast) is a poor choice for best accuracy for shooting that far. I suggest a Keith type bullet such as the Lyman 429421 or the RCBS 44-250-K for best results as both are excellent long range performers. Your friend should start with 8 gr Unique and work up in ½ gr increments to 13 gr (Lyman’s max for the 429421). Accuracy testing should be from a solid bench rest with 7-10 shot test groups shot at 100 yards. When the best group is found it should be confirmed with 2 or 3 additional 10 shot groups. If accurate then test at 250 yards to see if it still gives an acceptable group to what your friends standards are. Best to also use a chronograph because you’ll want to keep the extreme spread down to 50 75 fps for any load.

My experience and advise comes from shooting to 600 yards with 44 magnum handguns and rifles with all the bullets mentioned since ‘68. Be glad to help with additional questions just be a little more specific, ok?

Larry Gibson

[daddyseal]

Bear with us here....the problem with your question is we have absolutely no idea what the quality of the bullets your friend is using are (not even the alloy, lube, etc.), the quality of his loading ability and, particularly, his shooting ability. We can assume the Marlin is in good condition but does the barrel have MicroGroove or Ballard rifling? Thus to give you a load that would give "good groups" at 250 yards is difficult. We don't even know what the parameters of "good groups" means to your friend. See the problems

I suggest your friend understand there is no internet shortcut to accuracy. Lets assume he is a competent reloader and knows how to cast bullets (or is he using commercial cast?) and can shoot. I suggest, since there is no internet short cut, that he "work up" an accurate load the old fashioned way. First, 250 yards is a fair shot for most so lets understand that a cast SWC with a short nose and a bevel base (most likely if commercial cast) is a poor choice for best accuracy for shooting that far. I suggest a Keith type bullet such as the Lyman 429421 or the RCBS 44-250-K for best results as both are excellent long range performers. Your friend should start with 8 gr Unique and work up in ½ gr increments to 13 gr (Lyman’s max for the 429421). Accuracy testing should be from a solid bench rest with 7-10 shot test groups shot at 100 yards. When the best group is found it should be confirmed with 2 or 3 additional 10 shot groups. If accurate then test at 250 yards to see if it still gives an acceptable group to what your friends standards are. Best to also use a chronograph because you’ll want to keep the extreme spread down to 50 75 fps for any load.

My experience and advise comes from shooting to 600 yards with 44 magnum handguns and rifles with all the bullets mentioned since ‘68. Be glad to help with additional questions just be a little more specific, ok?

Larry Gibson
Thank you, friend....I will pass that on to him. Right now his is off "trying" to find some Accurate #9 powder to buy.
(he wants to try that on his .44 reloads)

When he say all the great replies here, he said, OMG, 150 yrds is all I'm trying for. (my mistake for saying 250!)
I know that he uses commercially casted boolits...240 gr. and heavier.
I'll call him when he gets back about there shapes.

Since I'll be trying to reload cast rifle ammo soon (.243 and 7.65x53 Mauser, will they need gas checks?

[Larry Gibson]

Your .243 and 7.65 Mauser cast bullets don't "need" GCs if you keep the velocity low.....however if you want normal velocity (1700 - 2000 fps) with cast bullets and any semblance of accuracy from them you will use GCs.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

have him alse remember that if he shoots 5 boolits touching in a perfect X pattern at 100 yds that is still a 2" group.
it would be under 1/2" with a 223.
see how things are relative....

[daddyseal]

Your .243 and 7.65 Mauser cast bullets don't "need" GCs if you keep the velocity low.....however if you want normal velocity (1700 - 2000 fps) with cast bullets and any semblance of accuracy from them you will use GCs.

Larry Gibson
Thank you, I'll get some gas checks, friend Larry~
Who sells them at the most reasonable prices?

[Rangerat]

I think it is interesting that soneone wants loads to help him shoot a 44mag accurately at 250 yds. I don't make the rules but it has been my experience that it is nearly impossible to predict what loads will be accurate in a given gun for a given person even if you have the exact same make and model. If you have the same make and model with a very close serial number it might be worth a guess, but if they have lived in different places with different owners for many years I wouldn't bet on it. There's no substitute for hard work. And what is accurate? To me, a 6" group at 250 yds with a lever gun would be a small miracle although my 336 in 30-30 will get under 2" at 100 yds. Work up loads in increments while trying to keep components and technique consistent, and shoot a lot.

[Rangerat]

Sorry, just saw the correction to 150 yds. , but all the rest of the above still applies, and don't be surprised if the most accurate load is far from the most powerful.