Some thoughts on the panic buying epidemic [Archive]

Jim

01-20-2013, 11:11 AM

Member "I'll Make Mine" started a thread in the Rimfire section (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?180099-What-sense-does-this-make)entitled "What sense does this make?" The conversation turned to the panic buying epidemic and I participated in the thread.

This got me to thinkin', but I took my medicine, so there's nothing to be afraid of. Just pokin' at myself with a bit of sarcasm.

I mentioned in that thread that I have participated in the panic buying. I didn't run out and buy an AR and 10,000 rounds of ammo, but I did buy a brick of 22LRs and a coupla pounds of powder that I really didn't need at the moment. I'm not trying to justify my purchase, only explain it. There's a difference.

Knowing full well what's going on in this country with people cleaning the shelves of gunshops and department stores of firearms and ammunition particularly, I wondered how long it would be before things settled down and return to the norm of supply. Thus, I put myself in one of three categories of panic buyers discussed in the thread referenced above.

So, should I be ashamed of myself for participating in this? Or was I justified in buying a brick of ammo and some powder that I didn't need simply because I had no idea how long it would be before more was available?

Gentlemen, I'm serious. What I speak of is bothering me a bit and I'd really like to know how y'all feel about this. If what I did is acceptable and understandable, no problem. If it's not, however, I need to hear that from my friends and peers.

oldred

01-20-2013, 11:50 AM

Plain and simple, you could have done the "right" thing but then you could very well have been left short of supplies later. This is exactly what happened to me the last time, I said to myself this will all blow over shortly and besides I don't want to be part of the problem but guess what? All my noble decision got me was a shortage of 22 RF ammo, a situation where I was forced to cut back due to not being able to get primers and MUCH higher prices when supplies finally did become available. Not this time! While I know it adds to the problem the fact is it's either "join'em or do without", we point fingers and stand back and accuse the hoarders of being the problem but the sad fact is that while we may be right they will have supplies and we might not. I don't know what the "right" answer might be but this time I have enough to weather the shortage, at least I hope so.

Idaho Mule

01-20-2013, 11:52 AM

Jim, all I can see you being guilty of is simply maintaining your stocks. The brick of 22's you know for certain you will use. The powder is one you will use, now you have it for when the present jug runs dry. I see no harm done. JW

waynem34

01-20-2013, 11:53 AM

Hey Jim I hope all is well.You did the right thing.You have to look out for #1.Just my $.02.Its a better to have it and not need it kinda thing in my book.I buy things all year that I dont really need at the moment.I may need it sooner or later and if not i'll trade for something i will use.I dont have the money to panic buy so I panic buy when everyone else is not in a panic.I think this makes me a hoarder.We can go out plinking,hunting,fishing or just about anything else we want and dont have to ride to the rice bowl this spring if things go on.Get while the gettins good.Have a great day.

76 WARLOCK

01-20-2013, 11:54 AM

One of these panic shortages will be permanate and they will stop all sales, we have to figure out which one.

Nocturnal Stumblebutt

01-20-2013, 11:57 AM

I did the same, I bought an extra 1000 LP primers, an extra 2000 SP primers, and 2 lbs of Bullseye, not much BUT I didn't need any of it, but it was what I needed to be able to reload until about May. I didn't buy it because I thought I'd never be able to get it again, I just bought it so I wouldn't be inconvenienced by the shortages. The way I see it, if you by to ride out the panic, it is difference than buying because you are part of the panic. It's just the way it is, things are already starting to stabilize in my area, the only thing you can't get is small pistol primers, but I have enough until May, by then this will all be an afterthought.

oldred

01-20-2013, 11:59 AM

After thinking about it maybe there is a better answer, buying what a person might reasonably use makes sense and should be considered ok but people buying up way more than they could use for many years is the real problem and I like to think I'm not guilty of that and obviously Jim isn't either. Nothing wrong with buying a couple of bricks of RF ammo if a person is going to use it but buying all that's on the shelf or way more than a person will use just because "It's going to get hard to get" is definitely the wrong thing to do. The guy who loads a few hundred rounds a year but buys 10,000 primers is the guy who is causing the problem not someone who just picks up a brick of 22s or an extra pound or two of powder.

Jim

01-20-2013, 12:00 PM

One of these panic shortages will be permanate and they will stop all sales, we have to figure out which one.

I have no way of determining that.

Nocturnal Stumblebutt

01-20-2013, 12:00 PM

One of these panic shortages will be permanate and they will stop all sales, we have to figure out which one.

I respectfully strongly disagree, maybe someday sales of a few things will stop, like NATO spec ammo, but the biggest thing for most of us now is primers, and I don't think reloading, as a hobby, will ever be targeted in any significant way. The powers that be would be insane to suggest that someone that takes the time to scrounge up lead, smelt the lead, cast the lead into ingots, cast the ingots into boolits, size and lube the boolits, work up half a dozen test loads, etc., is a "threat to society."

oldred

01-20-2013, 12:07 PM

The powers that be would be insane

I would suggest you think about that statement! When it comes to anything relating to firearms some of these people are ALREADY insane!

GRUMPA

01-20-2013, 12:07 PM

I must view things a bit differently than others, and I hope I make some sort of sense with the explanation. In our household money is always tight, more than most realize so our purchases need to be thought out with a lot of logic thrown in there. Well other than the occasional arguments, we get our point across to each other without to much in the way of crushed feelings.

Now for the man cave stuff (if you want to call it that) she leaves me to my own pretty much on that until a safe queen is mentioned, well I have no safe queens so guess who won the argument.

Supplies are another matter, I don't care what it is I have never seen ANYTHING go down in value.

Case in point: I bought a case of 158gr HP 38cal J-words for $120 some years back, now to replace it, it would cost me over $500 for the same thing. Do that with anything you have or bought, give it 6mo and do the math, I seriously doubt that you lost anything on whatever it was.

Just my .02

perotter

01-20-2013, 12:12 PM

Let's not forget the 1990's gun ban situation. Reloading was targeted then. They would ban reloading in a heart beat if they could. Remember, gun control is about control.

RayinNH

01-20-2013, 12:12 PM

I The powers that be would be insane to suggest that someone that takes the time to scrounge up lead, smelt the lead, cast the lead into ingots, cast the ingots into boolits, size and lube the boolits, work up half a dozen test loads, etc., is a "threat to society."

The powers that be are insane. No one on this board would spend us into oblivion like crooks in D.C.

The fact that you have the ability to produce loaded rounds make you a threat.

sparky45

01-20-2013, 12:14 PM

Well Jim, I think you did the right thing. I went to a gun show in Springfield Mo. yesterday. Jam packed to the ever uncomfortable "front to back" walking room and very little reloading supplies such as powder/primers ect. I purchased a pound of CFE for 223; and a 14 oz. bottle of Trailboss to keep in reserve and the price wasn't all that bad($24.95 for the CFE and $15.95 for the TB). Zero, bricks of .22 with the exception of one that I found that had a $55 price. I live about 180 miles due west of Springfield so on a cost basis these purchases didn't pencil out. However, it was more of a get together with my brother who lives about 150 miles north of Springfield. We both enjoyed the show and spent about 3 hours shooting the breeze before a nice lunch and going our separate ways. Cost effective, no; worth it, priceless.

Member "I'll Make Mine" started a thread in the Rimfire section (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?180099-What-sense-does-this-make)entitled "What sense does this make?" The conversation turned to the panic buying epidemic and I participated in the thread.

This got me to thinkin', but I took my medicine, so there's nothing to be afraid of. Just pokin' at myself with a bit of sarcasm.

I mentioned in that thread that I have participated in the panic buying. I didn't run out and buy an AR and 10,000 rounds of ammo, but I did buy a brick of 22LRs and a coupla pounds of powder that I really didn't need at the moment. I'm not trying to justify my purchase, only explain it. There's a difference.

Knowing full well what's going on in this country with people cleaning the shelves of gunshops and department stores of firearms and ammunition particularly, I wondered how long it would be before things settled down and return to the norm of supply. Thus, I put myself in one of three categories of panic buyers discussed in the thread referenced above.

So, should I be ashamed of myself for participating in this? Or was I justified in buying a brick of ammo and some powder that I didn't need simply because I had no idea how long it would be before more was available?

Gentlemen, I'm serious. What I speak of is bothering me a bit and I'd really like to know how y'all feel about this. If what I did is acceptable and understandable, no problem. If it's not, however, I need to hear that from my friends and peers.

mrb7

01-20-2013, 12:15 PM

I would suggest you think about that statement! When it comes to anything relating to firearms some of these people are ALREADY insane!

Insane isn't the right word. Insidious is the word you want.

They're not stupid, either. In fact, most of them are pretty smart. The stupid ones are the knuckle heads who believe the drivel.

rockrat

01-20-2013, 12:17 PM

I wouldn't feel bad about buying a little bit like you did. Now, if you had bought 100K rounds of 22 and 200lbs of powder, then that might be a little different.

blackthorn

01-20-2013, 12:19 PM

Oldred (post #7) is right on the money! There is a HUGE difference in making sure you have enough to keep you in supply and cleaning out the shelves just because you were first in line and had the money! If you see a problem on the horizon you are just being prudent if you take steps to prepare. Sort of like building an ark!

perotter

01-20-2013, 12:21 PM

IMO, as long as a person didn't pay a huge premium for what they have bought it isn't panic buying. Myself, I've backed off recently of what I'd normally buy to leave a little for others.

In fact, I've never sold any brass until now. I ran into a guy at the local shop who wanted to get back into reloading and casting. He hadn't been able to find and M1 carbine brass, so I sold him a little. Not much, but enough to get going.

Jim

01-20-2013, 12:25 PM

Thanks, fellas, I feel a bit better now. I always TRY to make the right decision, but like everybody, that ain't always the case. I knew full well when I posted my question, I was putting myself in a position for somebody to chide me with "Oh, way to go, Jim, you just contributed to the problem!" I'm sure glad to hear y'all don't think that.

hiram1

01-20-2013, 12:34 PM

Smart thing you did .i got some 22 lr shells and some primers just before it all went south I would of got more if i had known.

Charlie Two Tracks

01-20-2013, 12:39 PM

I did just the opposite. I have a fair amount of supplies built up over the years for my .357's but I forgot all about my .22's. I haven't shot them for a very long time and once this rush on ammo started, I went to look at my supply of .22 ammo. Dang, I have 1 box of 100 rds. of CCI and that is it. Once things get back to a relative normal, I will stock up some on them. I can't believe I forgot to keep a prudent reserve on hand. Of course, the shelves are bare around here.

cdet69

01-20-2013, 12:39 PM

Everwhere I go there are almost no reloading components left. The only thing I see are oddball size calibers.

429421Cowboy

01-20-2013, 12:43 PM

I would say you are just doing what you have to to get by. The guy that buys a pallet of ammo for .223, 7.62, 9mm and three other calibers he doesn't own just because he thinks he will be able to resell them for money is the guy that makes me mad! I know one that did just that before Obama was sworn in last time, and another doing it just now, along with AR and Glock mags to resell. I myself have seen this coming for a long time, so whenever i have extra money from odd sources like hauling scrap metal, i bought primers or powder. If I thought we had to last a lifetime, we probably could because plinking would be out of the question, but at our normal rate of shooting i could last about a year without restocking and be happy. About 4000 primers, few pounds of rifle powder and 8lbs of pistol powder. Was it hoarded because i thought we'd never be able to get more? No. Did i buy it because i knew panic buying would wipe out the shelves? Sadly, yes.
A trip to several stores yesterday was scarier than i had thought. One store had a 2lb a week limit on all powder, and they were still almost totally out, the only remaining primers of any sort were one brick of Fed SP mag, and one of Win LMP.
The next store we went to was totally out of any 9mm ammo, from bulk packs to premium SD ammo, and a friend who works in reloading told me they were totally out of any IMR powder and had 4lbs of an Alliant powder he couldn't remember. Only primers left on their shelves were two sleeves of CCI 209's, only remaining .22 shells were CCI longs.
I get the 9mm ammo, primers, powder and all that, buy why is everybody attacking .22 lr ammo?

rexherring

01-20-2013, 12:52 PM

Every payday I would try and buy something I use like 1 pound of powder or some primers or an occasional brick of .22's. That was before the panic buying started. I was just keeping up my stock of stuff I use. I have see some extreme buying here. One guy bought 9 rifles in one day, a $10,000 charge. Another bought almost 30,000 rounds of ammo. That's either panic buying or he has the money to invest because it won't come down in price.

Love Life

01-20-2013, 01:09 PM

Don't feel bad Jim. You were wise to buy what you did. I shoot a bunch. I need powder ad primers to shoot. So knowing that on election day I ordered a very large amount of primers and powder.

Was I hoarding? No. I will use the stuff throughout the year, and have enough to ride out this panic.
I have no sympathy for the people who loaded hand to foot, or just now decided it was time to get into reloading.

As said what you did was not wrong Jim. You are smart and bought what you needed. Do not beat yourself up over it.

gbrown

01-20-2013, 01:29 PM

I probably don't shoot as much as many here, do. However, over the years I have built up a supply of items as I could. Was I speculating, hoarding? No, ran across some stuff relatively cheap and had the coins in my pocket. Why not? I bought 500 .30 cal 180 grain pulled bullets j-word Sierra. 500 .30 cal 180 grain boolits no gc, reduced loads. A bunch of .355 j bullets and a bunch of .38, .45, and 9mm boolits. Plenty of other components. Brass I have been collecting for 40 years. Being prepared and having a good supply of stuff is not greed. Looking to make a profit or control a market is greed. Case in point--high cap mags. People went out and bought 20 of them at a time. Being prudent and wanting to be prepared is a good thing, Jim. Did you do wrong? Not in my opinion. I'm planning on buying some powder that I won't use a lot of, but I will have available if I choose to. No intent to resell and make a profit off of.

cbrick

01-20-2013, 01:48 PM

No rational person could consider 1 brick of 22's and a couple of pounds of powder as hoarding.

I have always bought 22's by the brick, primers by a minimum of 1,000 and powders that I use by the 8 pounder. Never did this to hoard, just hate to go into the loading room to find out I am to low on what's needed to load what I was gonna load that day. I just try to keep the things that I use on hand. Current panic buying or good times that's just how I've always bought. So does that make me a hoarder?

During the last primer crunch when primers did finally start to trickle in the store placed a 200 primer limit on all primer purchases. I did buy 200 of the primers that I use a few times even though I wasn't yet out of primers. 200 is all they would sell me and I am a part owner (small part) of the store. I bought nothing just so I would have something that I didn't really use, just bolstered what I had that I do use. Does that make me a hoarder? I don't think so.

So Jim, my answer to your question is if the 22's and the powders you bought are already things that you use there is absolutely nothing either wrong or hoarding about it. You have as much right to these things as the next guy.

Rick

WILCO

01-20-2013, 02:16 PM

The powers that be would be insane to suggest that someone that takes the time to scrounge up lead, smelt the lead, cast the lead into ingots, cast the ingots into boolits, size and lube the boolits, work up half a dozen test loads, etc., is a "threat to society."

This statement saddens me, as it ignores past and current history. The government has, at one time or another, threatened every component used in the making of ammunition. The government doesn't conduct it's affairs with common sense or rationale, it seeks only to control and destroy. Senator Chuck Shumer came after the gun powder industry before the dust from the Oklahoma City bombing blew away: http://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/03/us/terror-oklahoma-bomb-ideas-abound-but-blocking-oklahoma-type-bombs-seen-unlikely.html

We, as American Citiziens and gun owners, must accept the fact that nothing firearms related is safe from a tyrannical government. As for our good friend Jim and his concerns, there is no such thing as hoarding or panick buying in our capitalistic society. It's called supply and demand. Jim simply voted with his wallet. I've done it myself and will continue to do so as I see fit.

Love Life

01-20-2013, 02:30 PM

The ant and the grasshopper comes to mind when reading this thread.

mpmarty

01-20-2013, 02:56 PM

Before the coronation of the Kenyan I saw what was coming and spent over two thousand dollars with Grafs on primers (35,000 LP) and powder (H-335, Varget, BLC-2 and Red Dot). I'm still using that stuff and hope not to need any more until after 2016 when hopefully this insanity will come to an end.

Jailer

01-20-2013, 03:18 PM

I don't care what or how much it is, if you're buying stuff that you need and are going to use you're not hoarding you're stocking up. Nothing wrong with stocking up.

It's the panic buyers that went out and bought 50K of 22lr but have no intention of using it that erks me.

archmaker

01-20-2013, 04:04 PM

Let's think about this, . . . I have a problem if it is wasteful. IE that the item that you bought is going to be thrown away because it expires, or if it is consumable that you buy more than you will need in your lifetime (notice I said consumable - As a gun is not consumable and I still don't have enough of those to last me a lifetime :) ). People that buy a lifetime supply of something is not hoarding to me, because once the inventory returns, and they are not buying it, leaves more for others.

Hoarding to me is buying something you don't need or to much of something you won't use. I buy my primers 5k to 10k+ at a time, why . . . because I like to get the best deal I can and I have to pay for hazmat. Will I use them up, yeah eventually. Will it be before I die, probably (I only say that as going through my stock I found some - like 100 or less - that i paid $1 for.) I also don't buy in such qty to put a financial strain on my budget.

So if you bought what you could afford, and bought what you needed and knew you would use it, then it is not hoarding in my book.

Blammer

01-20-2013, 06:49 PM

Jim, if you'd have bought 2,000 rnds of 22lr and 10 containers of powder you didn't need yea then you'd have contributed. The piddley amount you bought. No way.

waynem34

01-20-2013, 07:14 PM

With the gracious peeple here and other communities.I doubt there would be short supply in time of need.So keep enough to stay sharp.Protect what is yours and survive. That is #1.

kweidner

01-20-2013, 07:38 PM

Really have put some thought to this. Yes well stocked to ride out the storm. As long as I plan to use it what does it matter? I only bought about 4000 primers when it hit the fan. I knew would be needing them and this is how I usually buy them anyway. I hate going to load something and be low or out. Still need some 4831 ssc for my long range stuff. When it becomes available I will buy another 8#.
I usually buy in at least 8# lots if it's something I shoot a bit. 1 for lot consistency (dont have to rework loads I found) and 2 so I don't have to drive 100 miles to the nearest store that stocks it or pay a hazmat. I would buy 200 pounds of assorted powders if I could afford it. Not for any other reason but so I would never have to buy again and depend on what may or may not be available when I get ready to shoot it.
This is why I recently started swaging too. I hate when I can't get a particular weight of pill I want to try. I love cast for my handguns and have had moderate success with some rifles too. Just seemed like a natural progression and I don't have to wait for it to become in stock. Find some spent rimfirebrass, dig some lead out of the berm.....Game on.

Jim Flinchbaugh

01-20-2013, 07:44 PM

I've bought a pound of 2400, a pound of H4895 and one brick of LR primers in the last month.
I don't consider myself nutty, you shouldn't either.
What the "panic" has done to me , is make me slow my consumption of these products
to weather the silly season
if the SHTF, how much can you carry with you anyway?

cbrick

01-20-2013, 07:52 PM

pill I want to try.

You try pills? :roll:

Rick

Idaho Mule

01-20-2013, 07:57 PM

Jim, this may be silly on my part but I do it anyway. I own (and love) a little Ruger 77-22Mag. This particular rifle likes to shoot the Winchester Super X load. Almost every time I walk into a store that sells ammo, I will buy a box (of 50) or two. I do not know if this makes me a "hoarder" or not. I look at it as just taking care of my needs and wants. I also buy 22 lr by the brick when I see a good price on the one's I like. Do I have enough?? don't know. I don't buy a whole shopping cart full at a time, just some. If it makes someone else mad I reckon they'll get over it in time or be mad a long time. Just my .02 worth I guess. JW

KYCaster

01-20-2013, 10:06 PM

So Jim, did you pay through the nose for that brick of 22's? Did Janet have to give up a trip to the beauty shop so you could pay for the pound of powder?

Naw, I didn't think so.

Like I usta tell my ex......"You have plenty of things to worry about without makin' up stuff."

Just chill out......yer thinkin' too much. :coffeecom

Jerry

John Allen

01-20-2013, 10:16 PM

Jim, I went out and got some extra 22's, powders and primers. I do not consider it a panic buy I was more worried that the supply will take a while to catch up and I did not want to get caught with nothing to play with. i really wished I would have bought more as it looks like it might be alot longer until the shelves are full again. I went to Dixons Muzzleloading the other day and figured after I was done there I would pop on over to Cabelas which is right up the road from Dixons. There was little powder, no primers and almost all the ammo was gone. It was packed and this was on a Thursday at 11 am.

gbrown

01-20-2013, 10:23 PM

What's funny to me (I guess in a perverted way) is the look on everyone's face as they confront empty shelves at Academy and Gander Mountain. Nothing there in the common calibers. Like, "Oh Sh#$". I got enough to last for a while. 5 years? Anyway, I have people wanting to buy what I got. Not happening. Ain't straying off on that path. Maybe this will cause a resurgence in reloading. I would love to see that happen. More people focused on this would be a resurgence of who we are.

Blacksmith

01-20-2013, 11:22 PM

I try to always have a supply on hand and typically try to buy in bulk when there are sales. If I had more money I would have a bigger supply. I need some sizes of brass, more lead, some additional powder and primers but I can wait until things settle down. I have bought nothing that's being discussed since the panic started and haven't been to a gun store. If I see something I want and the price is reasonable I will buy as much as I need, can afford or am allowed whichever comes first.

I am always looking for good prices and have added to my food supply, long way to go, and got a good deal on some things I don't need (outdoor related) but figure will make good trading stock. None of which I consider hoarding just trying to "Be Prepared".

Down South

01-20-2013, 11:48 PM

Jim, from your first post in this thread. I was out of LR primers because all of my big rifles take LR mag primers. I purchased a lever gun and needed plain LR primers. This was about the time all of this began. I ordered several K of LR primers and decided to purchase some powder to help out on Hazmat fees and shipping so I don't believe that I fit into the panic buying. I was disgusted that I had a problem finding what I needed at one online place but I did find what I needed at PV at the time. I doubt that could happen right now.
I haven't bought anything else other than a Ruger 10/22 Takedown that I had been wanting. I had a problem finding one of those at a non inflated price too. Now if I could just find some ammo for it.
I stopped at a local Bass Pro today to see if I could luck out on 22 rim fire ammo but no luck. Most of the ammo shelves were pretty much empty as were the pistol cases.
I've tried to keep my stock level up to the point that I just don't need anything and I've done a good job of it by building my stock up over a period of years.
The reason I am low on 22 ammo is I didn't have a decent 22 until all of this began.
I may have one of my gun shop owner buddies try to save me a brick or two of 22 ammo. One of them sent out a message on his storefront Facebook page that he had some in stock.

JIMinPHX

01-21-2013, 12:38 AM

I think that a brick of .22s & a few pounds of powder is a moderate purchase. I can't imagine that being called panic buying.

As for me, I haven't had the time to go shooting is quite a while. I don't think that I've fired more than 25 rounds in the last year. I didn't buy anything this time around because I didn't need anything. The last time around, I ran out of large pistol primers because that was what I had been shooting a lot of back then.

This time around, I was happy to see my fellow Americans stocking up & putting supplies away in case they are needed in the future. The best possible outcome of this lousy situation is for a good supply of guns & ammo to be spread around in the hands of as many law abiding American citizens as possible. I think you for being one of the many that stepped up to do his civic duty of being properly supplied for the future & I am glad that there are many more like you.

NZSarge

01-21-2013, 04:25 AM

Well, In NZ there are a few shortages of basic items but nothing like there YET.

But considering we are at the mercy of imports it must flow down hill.
Stuff is a lot dearer down under because of our low population and demand base.
Hence I bought 2 bricks ( 1000 rds) of .22, 1000SRP and 1000LRP and three pounds of powder, just in case.

We pay $NZ45 per 500 .22. primers about $NZ60-75 per 1000 primers and powder/LB between $NZ50-69.
They'll get used anyway.

Be safe folks... Sarge

shdwlkr

01-21-2013, 05:11 AM

merlin101

01-21-2013, 05:23 AM

shdwlkr

01-21-2013, 05:44 AM

Have you looked at NY latest gun ban law? They haven't gotten around to reloading ammo yet but they will!

As far as stocking up goes. Go for it before you need a back ground check for ammo like we do here in NY.

I can only hope a few states will not be so stupid and also that all you that have firearms and want to keep them pack up and leave NY. I did over 10 years ago best decision I made in a long time

rhadamanthos12

01-21-2013, 06:32 AM

I have always bought in bulk, I don't have a huge stash but i can enjoy my hobby for quite a while without having to go shopping. The only thing i bought recently was a 300BLK upper, and I paid the normal price because i decided to order it through the manufacturer (who knows how long the waiting list is). Just like most things that happen when I buy something this was unfortunate timing, made the plans to buy it in august when I received my tuition reimbursement from my work place this january. No way that I could have predicted this outcome.

41 mag fan

01-21-2013, 08:09 AM

gbrown

01-21-2013, 10:08 AM

Panic buyers are the ones who would on a normal basis only shoot a couple times a yr, and thump themselves on the chest and call themselves a gunowner/shooter. They're lucky if the put 50-100 rds down range a yr.
But when all the gun control started coming out, they all of a sudden became scared and started buying. Just like the gun shows now...people are coming out of the woodwork looking to buy something they in a normal time wouldn't give a thought to buying.
As long as this gov't mentions gun control, theres going to be widespread shortages, and what does trickle in will be bought up before it hits the shelfs, and this gov't is reaping the benfits of large revenues coming in that they'll blow instead of putting it to good use.

I'd have to agree with this, as last Friday I was in Academy, had some time to kill before picking up my wife, and overheard a gentleman talking to one of the fellows at the gun counter. He ask him when they might get more of a certain gun in. Clerk said he didn't know. The man said he was interested in that and an AR-15. He said he had never considered getting an AR 15 until it looked like they may ban them. What kind of logic is that?

richhodg66

01-21-2013, 10:58 AM

I haven't participated in hoarding, bu have been buying primers and powder and such when decent prices present themselves. Even if it blows over and supplies resume, I figure it's a hedge against inflation. I doubt I'll ever get out of handloading and the stuff lasts forever if stored decently, so if all ges well, I have stuff and won't have to pay higher prices for it later.

TJF1

01-21-2013, 11:38 AM

Jim i see nothing in buying the ammo or powder
i went to the gun show in okc sat to buy a can of blue dot
none in the building. Plenty of 22lr if you want to pay
65.00 a box 525 blazer. 30-30 were 45.00 a box.
People were going out the door with sacks full.
Terry

shdwlkr

01-21-2013, 01:12 PM

I have a question if all this buying at high prices suddenly falls through then what happens to all those panic buys? Will they just keep what they can not sell at the inflated prices? Did they really intend to buy it anyways?

Right now things are playing into the government plan of confiscation, think about it no firearms at least what many of us would buy if it were priced fairly, few primers, powder, brass, bullets how much better can it be if you are on a socialist progressive agenda to ban firearms then when their availability is at its lowest.

think about this also how come so many outlets are saying they have no idea when they will be able to restock? Did all the firearm companies suddenly get blind sided with sales, are they holding back to see what comes out of the beltway so they are not stuck with unsalable goods? How about the primer and powder and brass companies did they just suddenly slow down production or did they get blind sided also? Remember they are supplying ammo to our troops so there is primers, powder, and brass for some but not the civilian market.

If all the firearm and related companies did get blind sided what should their production be to restock the shelves in our local stores and what price is fair for all or will they just up the price and that is the new normal like last time? See I am old enough I can remember buying a 1000 primers for $5, a can of powder for $10 and brass $7 for a hundred of most anything you wanted. Just recently I looking for primers and one place had them for $7 a hundred limit of 3, powder was $25 average a pound, brass was like $30 average if they had any of these. Do you really think it costs this much to make all these components or are we being taken a little advantage off? I know things go up as the dollar goes down so that is some of it but is it the real reason?

Yes I was able to find what I needed at a price I could accept considering but still some of my brass needs are getting close to a buck for each piece of brass and just makes it expensive to enjoy. But when you look at the progressive agenda 21 movement that is all part of the plan to make it so expensive we can not enjoy our sport so why keep our firearms right?

I hope we are able to stomp down this new AWB that is going to be panic pushed at congress and not have to deal with it again for another 19-20 years and maybe never.

What all this really is an assault on our right to be free and to stand against foreign and domestic terror. They want us to be subjects and victims and defenseless so they can get rid of the 90% of us they see fit to do with no way for us to resist.
time for my milk and cookies

Gliden07

01-21-2013, 01:29 PM

I don't think you did anything wrong I bought a couple thousand primers large and small but that's all I have also bought another pound of 231. Really didn't need um but I have them now. And truthfully the prices on this stuff is up. When availability gets better I can't see the prices coming way down to "before" panic modes! The only real prices that are gonna come way back down are the people price gouging. And they'll do alright too if they bought what ever there gouging on right to start with.

David2011

01-21-2013, 02:18 PM

Hopefully the price cycle will complete more or less as it has in the past. I know we have not seen pre-2008 prices on primers but allowing for inflation they became reasonably priced again. Before Newtown most of the common brand name primers were in the $28-$31/K range again, down from the post-2008 election prices and supplies were dependable. Some of the panic buying just makes no sense. Buyers are swallowing up some things in quantities that make no sense. I know someone who has bought hundreds of high-cap magazines, at least 7 AR-15s and 15,000 rounds of .22LR ammunition. I can see the panic over AR-15s and other semi-auto rifles and magazines that don't pass the "blued steel and walnut stock" test for pretty. I can't understand that the shelves are empty of shotgun shells, rimfire ammunition, revolver ammunition and other items that don't seem to be under attack. Maybe the LGS owner is right- that Amiercans are arming for the worst case scenario.

David

Love Life

01-21-2013, 02:21 PM

If I saw a couple bricks of CCI quiet 22 I would grab a couple. I love that round.

koehn,jim

01-21-2013, 02:27 PM

I have no problem with what you did, you were buying for yourself, some vultures are buying to try and re-sell. I hope they get stuck just the way many did back in 09.

cbrick

01-21-2013, 02:48 PM

I can't understand that the shelves are empty of shotgun shells, rimfire ammunition, revolver ammunition and other items that don't seem to be under attack. Maybe the LGS owner is right- that Amiercans are arming for the worst case scenario. David

David, you keep telling yourself that, keep saying it over and over.

Don't seem to be under attack only because they are taking it one step at a time, taking right now as much as they think they can get right now. Once they have it your shotgun and revolver will be under the same attack as the black guns are right now.

Don't fall for the media hype that this has anything what-so-ever do with SandyHook, it doesn't. Sandy Hook is nothing more than their current excuse. IF they were trying to prevent another Sandy Hook they would be making proposals on how to stop another from happening, they aren't. They are going after ONLY the law abiding, the Consititution and the guns.

Rick

chrisw

01-21-2013, 03:38 PM

To buy only what you need to get you buy during a panic is smart. To buy more than what you need is paranoia. To buy with the intent of profiting off of others is unethical (and often illegal)

dakotashooter2

01-21-2013, 04:15 PM

I like to keep a couple years supply of reloading supplies so when a panic starts I may pick up a few odds and ends of things I may not be quite up to snuff with. When this happens though I can see why .22 takes the biggest hit. If shooters suspect supplies will get tight many revert to shooting the .22 which has probably sat in the safe unfired for 4-5 years. I think there is some advantage to having one of the odd calibers when panic buying starts. They are usually the last item on the shelf.

shdwlkr

01-21-2013, 06:07 PM

Well you can count me in on the panic buying if you want just laid away a case of cci 22 quiets in case your wondering that is 10 bricks of them before they disappear like so many of my other caliber ammo.
Not much good beyond 50 yards and they are quiet from a rifle and with ear protection good with a pistol, won't cycle in any semi auto but that is ok with me. Sometimes it is fun to have fun and not make a lot of noise doing it.

Love Life

01-21-2013, 06:20 PM

firefly1957

01-21-2013, 06:54 PM

Jim i did not read though all the posts because there are so many in a day but last summer i bought a couple thousand extra primers and two boxes (525 rounds)of federal 22 hp ammo. Other than that i have a pile of lead to cast and swage with but have collected it for years. No new guns but i have put a couple old guns back in use even if it is getting them ready to store ready to go.
How many times have we been though this stuff over the years i think it was the beginning of the assault gun talk in 1978 that got me to buy my Mini -14 we must have been though a dozen events since then i can not even remember them all!

shdwlkr

01-21-2013, 07:19 PM

Dang. Good buy shdwlkr!! I only lucked into a couple 50 rd boxes of 22 quiets before the panic hit. I really like those. Quiet like a 22 short, but can be used in 10/22 rifles by manually cycling the action

Thanks I didn't know how it would be accepted even here. I have been looking for them for over 8 months now and they just showed up in the last couple of weeks at my LGS.
Didn't know if I would like them or not so last week bought a brick and went out saturday at 14 degrees and let some fly and I was hooked. Would have gone in laid them away over the weekend but it took this long to thaw out. We have seen
a warm morning of -1 to -2 below the last few days and that is cold for Boise we usually have warmer winters but you know at least we have snow which is this year's water so there is some good coming out of it so far.

I can't believe how hard it is to find anything right now and my wallet can attest to that as it is much thinner than normal and showing no signs of getting better as the year goes on. I have a few things to get and then I will be set I hope for the rest of my life if need be.

If we can still have firearms and a place to shoot and no more **** to deal with I will be happy but one never knows what is coming out of the beltway idiot room anymore.

shooterg

01-21-2013, 07:48 PM

Only thing Jim did wrong was not buy more ! Anything you can afford to buy at a good to fair price and are gonna use for yourself or your family in any time frame isn't hoarding. The Scouts taught us to be prepared !

Love Life

01-21-2013, 07:59 PM

On a side note what is wrong with hoarding? If you have the coin to get what you want then why not get it? I have always looked at it as an investment. I buy product A for X amount because I know the price will go up. Not to resell, but to save money. I do the same with groceries. Like when peanut butter is on sale for 12 jars for $20.00. I buy it by the case because I eat a bunch of it and it is smarter than buying single jars for $3.50 a piece.

If you are there when it is available then why are your wrong for snatching it up? As a shooter I go through several thousand rounds a year using all primer sizes. Why am I or why are you wrong for laying into a stock?

I was taught that the early bird gets the worm and only a fool fails to prepare for the future.

I look at it like this. I can go through several thousand rounds of .308 at 46 gr of BLC-2 apiece throughout a year. What good is it for me to buy a pound of BLC-2? Do I feel bad for having over 32 lbs of BLC-2? No. As a matter of fact I plan to go to the range next weekend.

If I see a deal I will always jump on.

Hoarding is a term used by those who are less prepared.

@Shdwlkr- I like them quiet 22s. I have a decent stash of shorts, but will be on the prowl for those. No need for ear pro with those.

Oh and if you are in the Gardnerville, NV area the LGS has several pounds of Bullseye.

uscra112

01-21-2013, 08:16 PM

I'm a hoarder of the worst kind until there's a shortage. Then I'm a guy with 20-20 foresight.

Down South

01-21-2013, 08:29 PM

NV area the LGS has several pounds of Bullseye. Please excuse my ignorance, after all, ignorance is simply a lack of knowledge but what is LGS? Is that an acronym for the name of a chain store or the name of the store? If so, I've never heard of them.

gbrown

01-21-2013, 08:33 PM

Don't mean to be the ole school teacher (which I am), but a lot of times we are talking semantics here. Hoarding or preparedness? Hoarding is like 2 life times of stuff. Preparedness is enough to last your lifetime. I shoot some 11 different calibers. How much stuff do I need? A lot. IMHO, Hoarding is getting stuff you are not going to use, you just get to make you feel secure. A lot of us saw hoarding with our parents who had been through the great Depression. They had the coins, the jingle, and they bought stuff they never used and had no intention of using. It was a result to the deprivation they felt from the Depression. I've been through 3 houses of deceased persons who lived through those times and saw the unopened bags from Walmart, Kmart, etc. where they just bought stuff. My father had a 10 X 30 foot garage full of stuff I had to get rid of. Wall to wall. You got to ask yourself--"Am I prepared, or hoarding"

oneokie

01-21-2013, 08:35 PM

Please excuse my ignorance, after all, ignorance is simply a lack of knowledge but what is LGS? Is that an acronym for the name of a chain store or the name of the store? If so, I've never heard of them.

LGS=Local Gun Store/Local Gun Shop

Down South

01-21-2013, 08:45 PM

LGS=Local Gun Store/Local Gun Shop
Figured it had to be something simple that I would stumble on. :killingpc

Wellllllllll, I called my LGS today and lucked out on a brick of 22 rim fire Remington "LR's". I paid him with a "CC" and called my other LGS and talked to my buddy who owns it. He has 22's Winchester's "LR's" coming in so I reserved a brick of those.

Now, I have some 22 ammo. :bigsmyl2:

Love Life

01-21-2013, 08:45 PM

bob208

01-21-2013, 09:21 PM

it is not hoarding it is being prepeared. i am still uding primers from the last primer scare. powder too. when i saw how much it has gone up in price. i started buying .22 now that i am retired i can shoot that. i don't know if i can afford to get back into high power.

Down South

01-21-2013, 09:29 PM

My powder and primers that I ordered about time all of this started came in today.

GOPHER SLAYER

01-21-2013, 09:49 PM

Might as well add my bit into the mix. I never panic buy anything but I don't blame those who do. Being part of the older group on this or any other site I can say I have seen it before. In the last few years I have bought the reloading equipment and supplies from families whose shooter has gone to the big range in the sky. Ivariably there were left over the results of panic buying. Would you beiieve one had 30000 rounds of 22 long rifle ammo. In that case it took me two trips in my car to bring all the ammo home. I feel that if you are on the sunny side of fifty and powder or primers were removed, say a year from now, you couldn't put away enough to last you the rest of your shooting life. Another way to look at the situation is this. I don't want to go shooting and be the only guy at the range. If I were the only guy able to put ammo together I would just stay home. If you don't agree with my view on the subject, that's ok but just ask yourself the next time you get the urge, am I really going to shoot fifty k worth of primers and powder in the forseeable future.?

JIMinPHX

01-21-2013, 10:30 PM

Jim
I am looking at buying 10 bricks of a new 22 lr round that cci brought out because who knows when they will be in stock again. Don't even know if they are going to be in stock when I go back to buy.
They are the new cci quiet rounds and they are fun to shoot and yes they are quiet out of a rifle and if you have ear protection they are quiet out of a long barreled pistol.

Are you talking about CCI CB rounds? If so, they have been out for quite some time. They just aren't very common. If you are talking about something from CCI other than their CB round, please let me know what this new round is. I'd like to know more about it.

On the subject of CB rounds in general, the ones from Remington are usually slightly hotter than the ones from CCI. The Agulia Super Colibri are quieter than the CCI & the plain Agulia Colibri (no Super) are the quietest. The colibri are a little dangerous though. They have such a low powder charge that they can get stuck in the barrel of some guns. I've crony'd them out of a pistol at around 380fps. Out of a rifle, they were slower. That's not a misprint. The longer barrel gave less velocity.

Jim

01-21-2013, 11:14 PM

Are you talking about CCI CB rounds? If so, they have been out for quite some time. They just aren't very common. If you are talking about something from CCI other than their CB round, please let me know what this new round is. I'd like to know more about it.

.

CCI 22-Quiets (http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?use=2&loadNo=0970)

Blacksmith

01-21-2013, 11:16 PM

Ammogarand has surplus .22 bricks for sale for $28.50 each of course these are the ones they bought from CMP at $125 per case of 10 bricks back in November. They also have .223/5.56 that looks like the same stuff CMP had about the same time but the CMP ammo every fifth round was a tracer.

http://www.ammogarand.com/22-lr-surplus-remington-40gr-standard-velocity-500r2240500.html

JIMinPHX

01-24-2013, 01:33 AM

CCI 22-Quiets (http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?use=2&loadNo=0970)

Thanks for the link. That's something new to me. The velocity is about the same as a CB, but the bullet weight is a full 40 grains, which is much more than the CB rounds usually have. That's interesting.

NZSarge

01-24-2013, 03:56 AM

Here we are in NZ forum talking about you guys talking about this..)

http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1358412707

Down South

01-24-2013, 08:45 AM

Here we are in NZ forum talking about you guys talking about this..)

http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1358412707
Interesting read. Looks like the effects over here have put a hurt on you guys. Good Luck.

Bonz

01-24-2013, 09:05 AM

Being nosey, I just had to ask... Customer Service at CCI emailed me the following response :

"We make and ship 2,000,000 + primer a day, there is just a great demand right now.

Make Every Shot Count!
Justin M.
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
CCI/Speer
(866) 286-7436 "

Every other person that I have talked to over the phone just says that everyone is hoarding all the components.

The really sad thing is that prices have already started going up. I was warned late December while I was placing an order that prices on Primers and Gun Powder was going up in January. 2 different companies told me that it will take them months to cover all of the backorders they currently have after they start receiving normal inbound shipments again. One company that I deal with face to face told me that their supplier is rationing out all components to all their customers trying to keep everyone in business. Once they run out of primers and gun powder, they call their supplier and another small shipment arrives in 2 - 3 weeks. Most resellers have turned off backorder capability on their websites. Unless the manufacturers of primers, gun powder and ammunition really crank up production, we probably won't get back to normal this year.

Jon

01-24-2013, 09:20 AM

Everything is pretty well cleaned out. I've had to start rationing my 22lr, since I can't resupply.

2HighSpeed

01-24-2013, 09:30 AM

My husband has been partaking in this "Panic Buying". It rather annoys me. But, In the long run I know he is just doing it so that he has the means to protect us if he needs to. He wants to add a AR-15 to our gun safe, I think if he does we will need to invest in a bigger safe cuz ours is already well stocked.

shdwlkr

01-24-2013, 10:32 AM

Thanks for the link. That's something new to me. The velocity is about the same as a CB, but the bullet weight is a full 40 grains, which is much more than the CB rounds usually have. That's interesting.

Jim they were a new round from cci last year at the shot show and just now showed up at my LGS and so I bought some to try and was hooked so I went back and got me a good supply of them as most places I looked have never had them for long.

Went out last saturday at 14 degrees mind you and shot some, I like them a lot, they are somewhat quieter in a pistol but in a rifle the longer the barrel the less you hear when you pull the trigger. My brother's wife has very sensitive hearing so she can not shoot normal firearms as even with ear protection it is painful for her ears so now we have something she can shoot.

Once you get to using them and yes that 40 grain bullet was the reason I was on the hunt for them for so long and I am well satisfied with them.

largom

01-24-2013, 10:35 AM

Guess you can call me a hoarder if you want to but I grew up very poor. I got one box of ammo per gun per year. Thats what got me started handloading as a kid. When I got married and started raising a family still did not have much extra money. I am now retired and still do not have much money but enough to be comfortable. I stocked up when Bill Clinton first got elected. I have never bought during a panic but as I visit gun shows, gun auctions, and estate auctions I buy anything that I can use if it is cheap. Since I got my son-in-law into hunting, shooting, and handloading I give any excess to him. We load and shoot most all rifle calibers so I don't pass up any good deals. Went to a gun auction new years day and bought a box lot containing 6 boxes Sierra 243 bullets, 1 box 22 bullets and 2 boxes 45 cal. gas checks plus a bunch of round balls. I paid $30.00 for the box. Did I need it? Hell no, but I added them to my hoard. Will give the J-bullets to son-in-law and add the gas checks to my meager supply of about 15,000 various cal.
Am I hoarding? You might say so but I have enough components to last many, many years. Since I only shoot cast boolits now, my son-in-law has enough J-bullets to last him. We also have enough powder and primers for many years and several bricks of 22 LR.

Happily stocked up.

Larry

Boz330

01-24-2013, 10:37 AM

Stopped in at KY Gun Company last night and they had shelves full of primers, CCI and WW. Pretty dear price wise though. CCI that I looked at was $34.95 a K. Last I got was $18 something and I have plenty. The only thing I need is BR2s and they didn't have any of those. I was surprised that they had any since their black rifle stock and Hi-cap pistols disappeared over night. I didn't see any powder on their shelves though. Might be some in the back but didn't ask.

Bob

Bonz

01-24-2013, 10:58 AM

Just checked their website and they have CCI 500 Small Pistol $136.99 per 5000 but its "out of stock"

Boz330

01-24-2013, 01:19 PM

Just checked their website and they have CCI 500 Small Pistol $136.99 per 5000 but its "out of stock"
Try calling them. I remember seeing some Lg Pistol and they had some WW primers which they don't list on the website. I didn't look for anything in particular just that they seemed to have lots of primers. When I tried pulling up Win. primers they didn't even have any listed.

Bob

MtGun44

01-25-2013, 12:08 AM

Hah! $34.95 is cheap these days!

Bill

williamwaco

01-25-2013, 12:20 AM

I have no way of determining that.

That is the answer to your question.

Yes, I did it too.

I think you did exactly the right thing.

We must all assume that this is the last time.

If it turns out that we were wrong, then we must assume the next one is the last time.

Saving "stuff" you don't need against future needs is the very core of the conservative belief system.

Almost everyone on this forum would agree that you need to take care of your own future needs because "they" are not going to do it for you.

Rick459

01-25-2013, 03:57 PM

this is different than the last time. if you can find any supplies and can afford the price...get them. the future will be less for more money or nothing at all. they are making their final push to take everything away from us. if you can't see that by now then you won't see it coming later. the American People have no one in Washington who will stand up for us. don't get caught with your pant's down around your ankles. i don't plan too. and Jim, don't feel bad.. i don't.. with my stock being low i ordered 20,000 primers soon to be delivered. wish i could find some small Mag. pistol primers.
Rick

Down South

01-25-2013, 04:20 PM

You need to store those primers in a cool dry place. I keep all of my primers in the house where the temp is controlled and the humidity is somewhat controlled.
I've heard that some store their gun powder in freezers.
I keep my primers stored upstairs and my powder downstairs. If my house ever catches on fire, run the other direction as fast as possible.

10 ga

01-25-2013, 05:37 PM

Member "I'll Make Mine" started [URL="http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?180099-What-sense-does-this-make"]

that I really didn't need at the moment....

was I justified in buying a brick of ammo and some powder that I didn't need

Only 2 kinds of ammo, enough and not enough.
If you think did not have enough for whatever reason, it's OK to buy more.
Obviously you thought you did not have enough.
Purchase justified.

According to my wife I'm never justified in purchasing any firearms related material! She just dosent understand what not enough means. I have been in situations, not life or death, where there was not enough ammo and it aint good!

10 ga

pipehand

01-25-2013, 08:52 PM

To put things into perspective, there were +/-4Million M-1 Garands made during the Second World War(about four years). Americans bought 2.7 Million firearms in December of 2012(one month!). Those firearms require ammunition.

I'm sure everyone here remembers the ammo/primer shortage of 2008. The munitions manufacturers did not add more machinery, or much in the way of more personnel, because they knew that the run was temporary. They paid a bit of overtime, but did not put themselves on the hook for laying off unneeded labor after the boom, nor did they have to pay the cost of unneeded machinery after the boom. They'll make a bit of hay while the sun shines, but this too shall pass.

Unfortunately, while the price will come down, it will never come down to what it used to be. Just like the last time.

pipehand

01-25-2013, 09:09 PM

10 Gauge- there is also no such a thing as Too Much Ammo. Unless you are carrying it and you are trying to swim or are on fire. As far as spousal approval concerning gun related stuff goes- mine is happy that we're pretty well set due to long term stored components and loaded rounds. She'll ask "Where's the ammo for my...?" but the question "Do we have ammo for my...?" would probably not even enter her mind at this point.

Del-Ray

01-25-2013, 09:18 PM

Wow. I had a giant post all typed out, left to let the dog outside.

Came back and the baby had.... Removed it....

45 minutes worth of whinning.

Apparently she doesn't like my hoarding of components over the last decade.

Down South

01-25-2013, 10:20 PM

My wife encourages me to buy more even if I think there is only a remote chance we may need it. She sure is sweet. Anyway, I'd probably be labeled as a hoarder if it was known what all that I have. My stash has been building for a number of years. I picked up some of my stash at good deals, other stuff I bought because I figured that I needed it or would need it. Do I have enough to last if it all shut down now? If it were just the wife and I, yes. But I figure that I'd have to help support family and friends. I'm already doing that now. I gave 9mm brass to two people. I promised to load some of the brass for one family who are trying to find J-Words to load. I'll have to spot them primers and powder. I've got several more requests for help but I haven't committed. I will make one guy a couple hundred 5.56 and another a couple hundred 40 S&W. I'm teaching one guy to reload now. The list goes on and gets longer as time goes by.
The folks I'm loading for will be paying me but all I will ask is what I have tied up in the components that I use.

I really don't think this situation will get better soon. I do not think that we have seen the worst of it yet. I really think it will continue to get worse for a while. I believe the panic will get worse thus worse panic buying.
As long as they are talking gun control in DC people will continue to panic. As these people discover the non availability of guns, ammo and reloading stuff, they will panic worse.

On another note; the wife and I will be heading to the range tomorrow to do some target shooting. She wants to try out my little 642 J-Frame. She doesn't care much for my XD-9. I want to play with my little P238 some and shoot a couple long guns. I'll scrounge what brass I can pick up but I look for the number of shooters to start decreasing due to ammo shortages so, less brass to find. More people have started saving brass now too instead of leaving it lying.
I’d think in the next few weeks the range shooters will begin to thin out more. There will be guys there like me who are reloaders and have a stash built up. But the Zombie shooters and Rambo’s will start thinning out.
A lot of law enforcement guys practice at my range and that brass was always easy pickings. They never pick up their brass but I’ve been reading that even the LE’s are having to cut back because even they can’t get ammo.

Who knows? Maybe I’m completely wrong. I sure would be glad if that were so…..

geargnasher

01-26-2013, 02:26 AM

I'm a hoarder of the worst kind until there's a shortage. Then I'm a guy with 20-20 foresight.

An apt description of myself as well.

Gear

geargnasher

01-26-2013, 02:35 AM

According to my wife I'm never justified in purchasing any firearms related material! She just dosent understand what not enough means. I have been in situations, not life or death, where there was not enough ammo and it aint good!

10 ga

I can't imagine, being fortunate enough not to know, what it's like to be IN a life or death situation without enough ammunition. I CAN imagine that those who have been have a totally different sense of what "enough" is.

Gear

Gun-adian

01-26-2013, 01:35 PM

I can honestly say that I don't shoot as much as most of the people here do, or as much as I'd like to. Blame marriage and kids ;)

However, over the years I have built up a fairly decent amount of supplies. I bought, not to stockpile, but because it was reasonably priced at the time and available. Aquiring loading gear where I live is expensive and spotty in availability. So whenever I made the infrequent and somewhat inconvenient trip to my favorite retailer, I grabbed what I needed and what I might need in the near future. I did this for a number of years and stuff just kind of......piled up. I guess my buying practices let me ride out these panics as far back as Clinton.

Boyscout

01-26-2013, 05:33 PM

mrb7

01-26-2013, 06:47 PM

.... they are making their final push to take everything away from us. if you can't see that by now then you won't see it coming later. the American People have no one in Washington who will stand up for us.

No, this is not the final push. By the time this calms down we will still not be totally disarmed. So this will not be the last time.

You think England is disarmed? There's a move there now to halt the sale of kitchen knives that aren't round ended. Can you imagine trying to bone a chicken with a round blade?

It's already illegal there to own a pocket knife with a locking blade. So every electricians knife in the US would be illegal in England. And the blades must be something really stupid short, like 3.5 in.

No, this isn't their final push. Even if DiFi's bill passed in whole and Barack signs it.

geargnasher

01-26-2013, 09:31 PM

TXGunNut

01-26-2013, 10:41 PM

This past year I bought an unusual amount of primers, powder and brass. Prices seemed good, I was down to about a year's supply of some things so I bought what I could afford. Feeling pretty good about that today. I'd feel better if I had another 1000 LR primers but I'll get by. It didn't even occur to me to participate in the current panic-buying, but I would have bought what I thought I needed if I could have found it. Long ago I ensured that I'd never have to buy ammo on the way to the range. I shoot well under a thousand rounds a year these days but it might get a little lonely out there on the firing line.

dakotashooter2

01-26-2013, 11:01 PM

I did pick up 500 rnds of .22 at the hardware store only to find I had about 1500 rnds I had forgotten about stashed away in a closet.

TXGunNut

01-26-2013, 11:43 PM

I did pick up 500 rnds of .22 at the hardware store only to find I had about 1500 rnds I had forgotten about stashed away in a closet.

I've been known to do that, I hope to live long enough to shoot up all I have. I'll go out and shoot 50 rounds, have a great time, and buy a brick next time I'm in the store. Back of the pile somewhere is some filthy Russian steel case stuff that I keep around to remind me of another ammo shortage. Actually shot pretty well, IIRC.

rfp357

01-27-2013, 02:01 AM

I respectfully strongly disagree, maybe someday sales of a few things will stop, like NATO spec ammo, but the biggest thing for most of us now is primers, and I don't think reloading, as a hobby, will ever be targeted in any significant way. The powers that be would be insane to suggest that someone that takes the time to scrounge up lead, smelt the lead, cast the lead into ingots, cast the ingots into boolits, size and lube the boolits, work up half a dozen test loads, etc., is a "threat to society."

I am not picking on you Stumblebutt however, the problem is simply that the powers that be ARE insane. Does anything they do make sense? They want to restrict the amount of boolits a mag will hold. OK so carry more mags. Then they will restrict ammo sales. So we will reload more. Then they will restrict reloading components in retaliation to that. The gun rules and regs will become so stringent, bordering on confiscation, that people will start making their own firearms using 80% finished lowers. There aren't many restrictions, if any, on these or making firearms for yourself. Then TPTB will restrict the lowers and make it illegal to manufacture firearms for yourself unless you get an FFL and jump thru a bunch of hoops. We are the threat to society. We law abiding citizens of the United States who happen to enjoy the shooting sports are, in the eyes of TPTB, the threat. Again, this is not a personal attack on you. I just think it might be wise to explore all avenues when it comes to our beloved elected public servants.

Anyways... Jim don't beat yourself up. I just bought a bunch of primers but I will use them so I don't feel that I've participated in the "panic" buying. Don't sweat it. Buy what you need and what you will use.

shooter2

01-27-2013, 05:32 PM

So you bought a brick. So what? If we all bought a brick it would not dent the capacity of the manufacture of .22 LR ammo very much. I am not big on conspiracy theories, but the ammo shortage and the primer shortage stinks and, in my humble opinion, there are other factors at play here. Are the manufacturers and dealers and middle men gouging us because of our supposed panic? That's a rhetorical question as I sure as hell do not know the facts, but I do have an opinion. Does anyone really know how many bricks of .22 ammo all the manufactures can make in a day? There are about 25,000 members here and if we all bought one brick I doubt that it would take more than an hour to build that many. That is a wild assed guess on my part.

Ask yourself, is our king and his court part of the problem? We went through this when billary was in office and I recall trying to buy a brick of ammo and found it difficult to say the least. I called Cabella's and, yes they had some, but only with a $10 premium per brick. Say what? I told the gal where she could put that brick.

A friend once told me that if I wanted to be good at Bullseye I should shoot one full round, 270 shots, every day. Well, I guess I did not want to be that good, but I shot 100 rounds of .22 five days a week. A brick a week is not really a big deal when you put in in perspective. In fact, every shooter should be able to do that without having a national shortage.

Yeah, I think there are other things going on. JMHO,

Wis. Tom

01-27-2013, 06:32 PM

CCI says, in a letter from them, that they make 2 million primers a day, but at one point, in all this, they sold one years worth of primers, in two hours, to their distributors. Now, just put yourself in their shoes, for a minute. You have a regime of a govt., that is trying their very hardest, to shut places like this, down, as in gone. You have Obamacare steaming full speed ahead, with new and improved taxes, and fees, for every employee you have. You
have the EPA, going over and above the law, to make everything we use, including lead, regulated to the max, which means more costs to them, and the people that buy it. Would you, in their shoes, go out on a limb, and hire and train more people, to put out more product, with the chance of being regulated to death, or worse as in closed, or would you just put out the most product your current people, can handle, and try to weather this storm? Tough choices.

geargnasher

01-27-2013, 07:43 PM

Things were pretty much back in stock by mid 2010 last time, so that certainly supported everyone's thoughts last time on the practicality of component manufacturers attempting to expand production to meet demand. We know for a fact that many places put on one or two extra shifts for a while, but when backorders were caught up in two-three years at the most it made no fiscal sense to expand beyond what demand would be when the panic was past.

If you didn't see it coming this time, or couldn't spare the cash in the past couple of years to stock up on components, ammo, guns, gun parts, and reloading tools, then you're just going to have to tough it out. I actually got caught short this time too, even though I stocked up a couple of times here in the last year to make double-sure I had enough components to burn for the next few years without restocking, I didn't buy a set of .223 dies. I can borrow a set from my FIL if I have to, but that's one thing I simply forgot about. I couldn't afford as much .22 as I wanted to stock up on when it was available fairly cheaply at Wally World in 2012, but I bought as much as I could while still being responsible to our household budget. Realistically, I have plenty, I just can't shoot .22s as freely as I'd like until this settles down.

Gear

Down South

01-27-2013, 07:53 PM

Gear, PM me. I have a couple sets of spare .223 RCBS dies.

Recluse

01-27-2013, 07:54 PM

I tend to bristle a bit when someone calls me a "hoarder" and remind them about Aesop's fable of "The Ant & the Grasshopper." (http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/AntGra.shtml)

When some friends and acquaintances were buying guns, I warned them to make sure and stock up on ammunition and peripherals because with this bunch of unabashed communists in charge of our government, back-door gun control will be in wiping out ammo supplies.

Everyone laughed and told me how wrong I was. A few family members chimed in on my behalf and reminded these folks, via battlefield experience, that a firearm without ammunition doesn't even make for a good club. Again, more laughter.

At present, I get at least one e-mail or phone request per week asking if they can buy some ammunition or if I can reload for them.

The answer is always, "Sorry. I prepared for myself and my family, told you to do the same, so you're going to have to ride it out." This surprises them because I've always been the guy who willingly gave the shirt off my back many times over. But I tell them that this bunch of wackos in the government are serious about doing us in. They're finally catching on, but too little too late.

The Ant & The Grasshopper. It's a good lesson for a LOT of our walks in this lifetime.

Another excellent observation I read here is that over 2.7 million new guns have been sold in the past sixty days and guess what? People need ammo for them.

Supply will catch up with future demand, but no way can it catch up with present demand.

:coffee:

Down South

01-27-2013, 07:58 PM

Hey Reculse, I was worried about you for a while. I hadn't seen you around.

Recluse

01-27-2013, 08:06 PM

Hey Reculse, I was worried about you for a while. I hadn't seen you around.

Been in semi-hibernation working on the second book. How's Houston treating you?

:coffee:

Down South

01-27-2013, 08:08 PM

About the same. I'm in Lafayette La right now waiting for an open table so I can eat dinner.

Down South

01-27-2013, 11:41 PM

I tend to bristle a bit when someone calls me a "hoarder" and remind them about Aesop's fable of "The Ant & the Grasshopper." (http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/AntGra.shtml)

At present, I get at least one e-mail or phone request per week asking if they can buy some ammunition or if I can reload for them.

The Ant & The Grasshopper. It's a good lesson for a LOT of our walks in this lifetime.

:coffee:
Yes, that is a good story, sad but true.
I'm up to several requests a week now. A couple I will help, the others knew better or just wouldn't listen.
A group of young people were at the range beside me last week shooting up one of those plastic ammo cans full of 9mm reloads that they purchased from a well known store in the Houston area. I questioned them about the purchase and commented on them being lucky to even find the 9mm ammo.
In return they started to question me. I was shooting cast 380's, 45's and 38 wad cutters. They asked me where I got them? I told them that I cast them and made my own reloads. I had three offers to purchase ammo from me. No thanks, I don't sell ammo.
The bad part is that I figure it will get much worse.

I was in two different Academy's today mostly just killing time but hoping to luck up on some 22 rim fire. No luck, but I saw a couple of new to discover there is no ammo folks galking at the empty shelves. They just kept saying, where is all the ammo and guns over and over. The guy said to his wife, we have a 380 and a 9mm but there is no ammo. I didn't say anything, I just walked away.

Blanket

01-28-2013, 12:11 AM

We have another ammo and component shortage? Dang I need to go to town more often. In all serious though I have been in this game since the early 1970's and have always bought what I could afford when I seen a good deal on it or whenever I went somewhere like a sporting goods store or gunshow I always bought something, powder, primers, bullets, brass, 22's so on. I have slowed down shooting in the past few years but still shoot on an average of about 50 rounds a day. Proper planning and smart buying always goes a long way. What do you think all the people buying this stuff at the inflated prices are going to do when they get their credit card bills or their wives get tired of moving it around. But on the other hand we need to nominate Obama as gun and ammo salesman of the year

Down South

01-28-2013, 12:49 PM

We have another ammo and component shortage? Dang I need to go to town more often.
I think the worst one yet.

mrb7

01-29-2013, 12:05 AM

I'm surprised England didn't outlaw bedside table lamps after George Harrison's wife beat and subdued the burglar with one after he nearly killed her husband with a 6" knife. I thought 6" knives were illegal in England, how ever did the perp get one? How pathetic is it when a couple sleeping peacefully in their beds are reduced by law to defending their lives with household appliances?

Gear

Does anyone remember where the picture was posted of the flatware set - fork, butter knife, spoon - in England with a sign stating you had to be over 18 to purchase?

I was going ro save the picture but forgot where it was posted.

1fast8

01-29-2013, 01:27 AM

well since i am new here dont want to stir up too much trouble but as i was reading posts in this thread i noticed at the top of the page cheaper than dirt. i assume this is the same ctd that was trying to sell (in their own description mags have scrathes on the) scratched up cheap gi mags for 99.95

1fast8

01-29-2013, 01:28 AM

by the way to the original post the only thing you did wrong is not buy more if you needed it

cajun shooter

01-29-2013, 11:37 AM

It just simply amazes me that we have people on this forum who feel that by posting" I'm not a hoarder or the person who helped make this shortage" are indeed part of the problem.
You are thinking about only the purchase you made, not the combined purchases of the millons of reloaders and shooters.
If every member of this forum went to Midway in one day and made what seems like normal buying, they would be out of stock on most supplies.
You then have persons such as myself who because of illness and other problems because of the ecomny since 2007 have lost all disposable income.
We had one member even brag about his buying and how much he is able to have. I'm sorrry dear sir but that is greed. When you only look out for yourself and say you don't care that others have nothing and are not able to buy it, then you are in a world of your own.
I went to my local gun store and they had one brick of 1000 small rifle magnum CCI primers left, I was next in line and advised the young lady that I would take them please. I heard the guy behind me let out a groan. He said, man I needed those to load some 223. I advised him that is why I was buying them also. I then told him that I would be more than happy to give him 500 of them to buy.
He grabbed my hand and thank me for what seemed like minutes but was only a few seconds. He said he had never had no one do that before. I advised him that if all of us would share then we would have no shortage.
Yes, if you live long enough and that all depends on the grace of God then you will or can use 100,000 primers of any size. You will also be able to use that 40 or more pounds of powder. You will have a great time because most ranges will be empty.
I normally shoot three SASS matches a month when my health allows. Each match requires that you shoot 50 rifle, 50 revolver and 25 shotgun rounds for a local match. Just those matches will have me shooting 300 cartridges a month and 75 shotgun rounds. That is 3,600 rifle and revolver rounds a year not including shotgun. Now this does not include any State or Regional matches as I'm only making a point. Look at how long 100,000 primers will last.
Why not allow those persons who are not as well off as you have some fun also. It all just reeks of Greed!!
At the not so long ago 1st Obama induced primer shortage, our SASS club was thinking about cutting down on our matches as we already had members with out ammo. I suggested that we each try to help those members with ammo or supplies. We did and it worked so that no member sat home.
I think that these types of man made happenings should remind everyone of the reason we are who we are and show that commarade is more than a huge stock of supplies.
This also applies to those that I have seen selling $15 magazines for unreal profit. Your day will come. Later my Friends, I'm stepping down from the podium.

Jim

01-29-2013, 12:02 PM

shdwlkr

01-29-2013, 12:47 PM

cajun shooter
So those of us who saw this mess coming and have spent the last two years buying when there was no shortage because of our buying are part of the problem? Please explain
Yes I did layaway some ammo but you know it will take me a year to pay for it and most of it is nor has been in any great supply in my area so when it was I put it away so I would have it. Sorry if that upsets you but I wonder if you could have purchased enough ahead of time if you would have or would you have spent the money on something else.

Yes there are hoarders more like speculators hoping beyond hope that prices only go one way and that is up. We saw this in 2000, we have seen it with every major storm to roll across this great land. So should we all buy just what we need for a day, a week, or a month and hope there will be some on the shelves when we go back? Personally I hope everyone of those speculators get stuck with everything they have purchased at inflated prices. I saw one guy last fall with a shopping cart full of those cans of 5.56 ammo it cost him a few thousand to pay for it and he just laughed when the clerk asked him how long that would last and he said it depended on two things if his kids found it and how much the price went up. Maybe he was only buying for his needs but way over 100 cans of 5.56 is a lot of need. IF he was one of this state's ranchers then I doubt he bought to much as many of them come to town like once every couple of years or so, they do with what they have and don't complain. I talked to one rancher here and he was buying firearms rifles, pistols, shotguns for his family as they had had a fire and lost everything so he was replacing what was lost. Yes he bought ammo in a huge quantity but more than likely he will not be back for a very long time. Yes it was done last year before any of this panic buying hit the streets. I wonder if he even knows that this is going on as when the snow starts many those ranchers wait for spring to get out again. Hoarding is a very dangerous word to use as yes that rancher was hoarding by your standards but do you want to live the way he does? How would you deal with being cutoff from all the modern convinces like stores, malls, restaurants, etc. for months because of snow and cold, then when it does warm up there is a lot of field work to do and must be done.
Heck I saw one of those rancher wives loading the truck with bags of floor and other food stuff, according to you we should put her in jail as she was most definitely a hoarder, funny thing is I have seen no shortage of flour, other food stuffs yet.

Following your logic lets ban all purchases for anything that we can not consume in two days. That is food, clothes, transportation, housing, etc as if we don't we are hoarding these items so others can't have a chance at them. Ever been really cold because there was no heat I have and it sucks, ever been really hungry because there was no food or money to buy some I have again it sucks, ever have to walk because there was no fuel for your vehicle I have again it sucks, many of us remember the past and bad times and we try and look ahead so we are not so badly harmed by them when they again visit us.

As to health issues I have been dealing with them for decades and still manage to have what I need, notice I said need not want. I will share my store bought stuff with those I trust and others can take a flying leap to where ever it is that they go. I have no intention of being taken advantage of by anyone, but yes it still happens because I am just too kind heart'd sometimes.

Heck the ex's new man is looking for a firearm and I am helping find one for him and his needs, why because it is just the right thing to do and no I will not lend him any of stuff as he has my kids and doesn't treat them the best but still I prefer he has the best he can afford when it comes to firearms, ammo, etc.

Echo

01-29-2013, 12:55 PM

Insane isn't the right word. Insidious is the word you want.

They're not stupid, either. In fact, most of them are pretty smart. The stupid ones are the knuckle heads who believe the drivel.

And the knuckle heads that vote for the radical Dems.

Recluse

01-29-2013, 01:18 PM

I guess then, CajunShooter, that we need to simply become a minimalist society. Purchase and own ONLY what we absolutely NEED so that EVERYONE can "have a little fun."

Gee, I bought the last baseball "pitch-back" net for our adopted grandson. Guess I shoulda left it so that someone else could come along and "have a little fun" with it. After all, Dylan doesn't need it--he has me, his mom and his dad to go out and play catch with.

Nope, no sense in being an ant rather than a grasshopper in PLANNING AHEAD, and not just by a few months or even a few years. Nope, that makes those of us who do "hoarders" and bad people who keep others from "having a little fun."

Never mind that some of us reload and teach others to shoot and in a time when there is no ammo to be found because a majority in this country think like you and voted for an imbecile who also thinks like you ("when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everyone") has once again become the gun & ammo salesman of the millenium.

So now being able to afford more than I need at this very SECOND makes me and others like me greedy? Don't think so, pal. I think it makes us A) hard working, B) a smart planner, C) prepared, and D) an American--because as of yet, we don't have laws limiting how many primers or powder or components we can buy.

We've had FOUR YEARS to plan accordingly. FOUR YEARS. You say nothing about having cut back on your shooting and instead state you shoot three competition style matches a month. I used to shoot a lot of competition and I know, without a doubt, how much ammo they can chew up.

Guess what? Four years ago, I began seriously scaling back my shooting because the writing was on the wall--as well as all over the internet--about component shortages and rising prices. You know as you were here, same as the rest of us.

So the fact that I have cut back, significantly, on my shooting while also having planned accordingly and stocked up on primers and powder while CONTINUING to buy powder and primers as I find them to replace what I'm shooting is a problem?

Sorry but I'm not out there scrambling and in a panic to find components. I remember back in the Clinton days when this happened and vowed to never let it happen again. Along the way it meant sacrificing in some other areas--including scaling back on some shooting.

As far as the one member who you say has been bragging about how much he is able to buy? Who is it? I haven't seen much bragging in that regard, and even if it's true, so what? Are you saying that we should all be equal in terms of income and outcome???

Lot of folks here, myself included, who busted their *** to get to where we are today. Lot of veterans here who took advantage of the GI Bill to either get an education or learn a marketable skill so that we could make a better way for our families and live our parent's dreams which was to do better than they had done before us.

I'll be damned if I apologize for any of that.

Your accusations of greed piss me off. You have no idea what the membership here--or the members you question without naming them--do outside of this forum and where or how their generosity is manifested.

:coffee:

williamwaco

01-29-2013, 01:35 PM

You have identified what you believe to be a problem. Do you have a suggestion for a solution?

Solution:

I simply cannot understand the guilt complex. Nobody on this forum "caused" this shortage.

Obama and Diane "caused" this shortage - helped along by the the shooting. BUT - make no mistake. Obama and Diane would have caused this shortage even if there had not been a shooting or shootings.

Did we "contribute" to the shortage, sure. Along with around 100 million others. BUT - IF EVERY member of this forum had refrained from buying anything, the shelves at Walmart and Academy would still be empty and 9mm ammo would still be $50.00 per box at the gun shows. The entire membership of this forum had no measurable effect on this shortage. If you all refrained from buying, you would all have less but there would not be a bit more for me.

I went to a small (450 tables ) gun show this weekend. Normally I have to wait in a line of around a dozen people to get in. Saturday, the line was four abreast and it took 260 steps to walk to the end of it. It continued to grow longer as I was waiting. The people were amazed, like kids waiting to get into their first movie. At least 80% of them had never been to a gun show in their life and were very excited about it. ( I know, I listened to the conversations and ask many of them. ). I asked them why they were there, they said to a person "I am trying to buy some ammo, (22s, 9mms, 45s etc) and can't get them at the store. I am hoping to find some here."

My solution to the guilt complex:

Get over it. You didn't cause it, you didn't even make it worse, and you can't fix it. All you can do is wait it out.

My solution to the shortage:

These people are in business to make money. They will produce as much as they possibly can as fast as they possibly can but they will NOT increase plant and equipment and personnel to respond to a temporary stimulus.

Last time this happened, primers went from $5.00 per hundred with a limit of 200, to $20.00 a thousand in less than a year. I sincerely believe this will repeat.

Next time stuff gets reasonable, store up a two year supply while it is plentiful and you will not need to contribute even a small amount to the next shortage. ( And there WILL be another one. ) ( And, you will save a boatload of money. )

All you can do is wait.

oldred

01-29-2013, 01:51 PM

I went to a small (450 tables ) gun show this weekend. Normally I have to wait in a line of around a dozen people to get in. Saturday, the line was four abreast and it took 260 steps to walk to the end of it. It continued to grow longer as I was waiting. The people were amazed, like kids waiting to get into their first movie. At least 80% of them had never been to a gun show in their life and were very excited about it.

Maybe there is a silver lining to all this since it appears that a lot more people are learning about guns in the right way, not the nonsense from the biased media! It might be that all the anti-gun publicity just might backfire on the antis' and we end up with more people owning guns and supporting gun rights instead of supporting the idiotic ideas of a bunch "knee jerk" liberals.

shooter2

01-29-2013, 02:13 PM

The department of Homeland Security has ordered 1.4 billion rounds of ammunition. If they are gearing up for a war, who would be their enemy?

cbrick

01-29-2013, 02:19 PM

So Recluse, uh, hhmmm . . . ah, just how do you feel? :mrgreen: I agree, most all of that post made no sense to me either. No shortage of folks that bought into the touchy feel good, warm fuzzy feeling of the progressives. Most of them also believe in the economy is a zero sum game too. If you earn a dollar that's a dollar that someone else can never have because you have it. Absolute nonesense of course but it's taken the progressives a long way.

supporting the idiotic ideas of a bunch "knee jerk" liberals.

Don't buy into the scam that the progressives want to try and prevent another Sandy Hook, they know as well or better than any of us that it couldn't possibly work. It is a power grab. Period! They are dancing in the blood of those children for the express purpose of furthering their political agenda. They are more disgusting and vile than the moron that did the shooting.

Rick

chrisw

01-29-2013, 04:34 PM

heck, I just want to call out these idiots buying a 10 buck mag yesterday and trading/selling them for $30 today in our own forum.

say what you will but this is just wrong in my eyes.

heck, in my understanding of the rules I can't even post a link showing the buyers where they can buy it for $10, and that makes me feel bad, because I can't even stand up to these
"bullies".

alamogunr

01-29-2013, 05:24 PM

Having just discovered this thread and reading every post, it occurred to me that I read essentially the same things 4 years ago. The talk of hoarding reminded me of something my parents told me when I was very small.

Hoarding was illegal during WWII. Many food items were rationed. Apparently many food items were very scarce(sugar). According to the story there was a grocer in our small town(this was before large chain groceries) that, unbeknownst to the public was hoarding many of the scarcer items. He was storing them on the second floor of his small grocery. One night the weight became too much and the floor gave way and the whole 2nd floor dropped to the 1st floor. To say his hoarding was discovered is an understatement. According to the story his hoarding almost ruined his business.

I think I would treat today's hoarders the same way and wait for things to ease up before I would buy from an obvious profiteer.

Having said that, I would not classify any of the posters in this thread as hoarders.

white eagle

01-29-2013, 05:41 PM

Being prepared is not foolish or anything to be ashamed of
its a shame that p[people act this way but it is apparently a way of life now
I bought things I didn't need as well but now I have them and others are scrambling for them
I enjoy shooting so I will be prepared the last round of this learnt me so to speak

Down South

01-29-2013, 06:25 PM

Well, my second story hasn't collapsed to my first floor but my lead is in my shop.

1bluehorse

01-29-2013, 06:51 PM

I figure it's none of my business (or anyone else's for that matter) what or how much of anything someone buys. If it's for sale and they have the money then it's their right to purchase it...if they buy an item and then try to price "gouge" when that item becomes scarce, then it's up to you whether or not you're willing to agree to that price...if not, then you don't purchase it.. It's not like vendors do that..of course not, the price of all the AR's just mysteriously doubled in price overnight because the cost of plastic went up..if I had the disposable income I'd be sitting on a lot of lead, primers and powders..and figure it's none of your business if I did or didn't, BUT, whatever I bought would be for my use and not for resale, I do think that resale biz is a bit sleazy..

gbrown

01-29-2013, 08:01 PM

williamwaco

01-29-2013, 08:16 PM

Well, my second story hasn't collapsed to my first floor but my lead is in my shop.

On the floor, I hope?

WILCO

01-30-2013, 06:25 AM

I'm sorry for your circumstances. We are told we will have 3 score and 10, but nothing is said about how good or bad it will be. I may have a little more than the next, but there's lots of things I cannot afford. Oh, well. I have never coveted others things. Someone may have a Lexus or a 4X4 truck that I cannot afford. Oh, well. I'll be satisfied with what I can have and spend when I can and stock up. My "shooting" money comes from things I sell that I find and sell. I go look and snoop, make friends, do favors, and get good stuff in return. I'm not bragging, by any means. If you want something, be creative and find a way to get it.

Yep. Well said.

429421Cowboy

01-30-2013, 11:29 AM

It is sad we are to the point where we are, but i knew at some point we would not be able to get things for awhile for whatever reason, so whenever i sold enough scrap, i bought a brick of primers or a few sleeves. That sum total leaves me with 3000 LP primers and 700 LR primers, hardly a hoard, but if we had to, we could comfortbly last a few years on that. Sure, practice would be limited but i would still be able to hunt and use my guns how i wanted. I didn't buy a pallet of .22 ammo, even though i know i would go through it eventually. I bought what i needed to last awhile. Yeah, it sucks, but i realisticly knew that if i didn't have a few on hand, it wouldn't make a difference to anybody that i didn't buy them when they were still on the shelves. I feel no guilt in that, and i have no intentions of profit of that. 6 lbs of Unique, 4 lbs of rifle powder and less than 4000 primers, the total of our supplies collected over my reloading carrier, doesn't make me a hoarder and would not last the blink of an eye on the shelf. Yet that will enable me to carry on until things hit the shelf again. The real guilty ones are the profitiers that are hawking $100 mags and $1000 cases of .22 ammo, not those of us who just want to be able to hunt and enjoy our sport.

Wis. Tom

01-30-2013, 01:31 PM

We, for now, can still make alittle money, on what we scrounge up enough money, to buy or sell. If you don't like what is left of our free enterprise system, I am sure there are very cheap tickets, to say Greece, where buying and selling, on an individual basis, is illegal. You buy a product to use, or sell, and make enough to survive, while working to get that money, or you get money or product, from the govt. When that balance tilts to 51% govt., which I think it has, we are toast. The people that don't store up, and have, in time of need, want from those, that have stored for just a day. They call it unfair and ask why others have what I don't have. Read your history books, we aren't the first in line, for the fall that is happening. The govt. has spent alot of time and other peoples' money, to get us to this point.

cajun shooter

01-30-2013, 09:02 PM

Well I can see that my posting made some miss my point completely. I was not speaking about any one who purchased primers or powder or ammo in normal amounts.
The attitude that I have it and you don't does not upset me either. My family was and is very poor and for the most part they all work from check to check. It seems that some people feel that I was just jealous of those who have more. That is so far from who I am that it is laughable.
My wife and I had a drafting business and I helped her after leaving the Sheriff's Office because of some serious health problems. We lost the business that she had for over 25 years when the second depression hit in 2007. We had weeks that we could not buy food. I was then and always will be a very happy person and enjoy what I have. If I have not a nickel, I have this life that the good Lord gave me and the best wife a man could wish for. I'm a very rich man in those things that matter.
My Grandmother who was born in France and came here as a 14 year old girl knew about living with what you have. I was upset one day because all the kids at school when I was in the 7th grade laughed at me because of my shoes. My grandmother would buy them 3 sizes too large and stuff newspaper in them so that they would last at least three years. I had to take them off as soon as I came home.
She then told me a saying that has directed the way I have lived my entire life. "She said there was a man who cried because he had no shoes, then he saw the man with no feet" She explained that no matter how bad you think you have it, there is always some one some where that is much worse off.
So my fellow members my posting had nothing to do with me worrying about what you have, heck buy 1 million primers it will not affect my life one bit.
I was trying to instill a sense of working with others in time of need but it appears it fell on deaf ears.
I have spent my entire life in the service of others. I joined the Army in 1965 when it was not the thing to do. I came home and after some soul searching attended LSU's Law Enforcement Program and became a Cop for almost 16 years before my health caused me problems.
I still believe they have good people who will reach down and help a fallen person up and that was the point I was trying to convey. Take Care David AKA Cajun Shooter AKA Fairshake

Friends call me Pac

01-31-2013, 12:02 AM

Jim I wouldn't worry about it. I don't think buying powder, primers or whatnot is any different than putting canned goods away for a later day. We all had at least 3 years to purchase whatever was needed to keep shooting. How can you or I be blamed for thinking ahead? I also keep my checking account on the positive side. Guess that makes me a cash horder too Like I said I don't worry about it.

RNyogi

02-04-2013, 05:35 PM

I wouldn't bet on it.

I respectfully strongly disagree, maybe someday sales of a few things will stop, like NATO spec ammo, but the biggest thing for most of us now is primers, and I don't think reloading, as a hobby, will ever be targeted in any significant way. The powers that be would be insane to suggest that someone that takes the time to scrounge up lead, smelt the lead, cast the lead into ingots, cast the ingots into boolits, size and lube the boolits, work up half a dozen test loads, etc., is a "threat to society."

shdwlkr

02-04-2013, 05:39 PM

Better read my post in our town about the good senator and her AWB bill before you put your self in trouble.
They want us to be subjects and be able to say who lives and who doesn't plain and simple Agenda 21 mental out look

dakotashooter2

02-04-2013, 06:51 PM

I think most of us in rural areas think of it more in the terms of stockpiling than hoarding. It's just something rural people do my nearest powder source is nearly 50 miles away. I might make a trip their every 1 1/2 months or less if fuel cost is up. So when I go I tend to pick up an "extra" here and there whether it is ammo, reloading supplies or food......... I was just there this weekend and picked up 2 lbs of powder that I don't need at the moment but the store had ample stock, I wasn't denying any to anyone and I could not be sure it would have been in stock on my next trip.

Phoenix

02-04-2013, 10:33 PM

To buy with the intent of profiting off of others is unethical (and often illegal)
I have issue with this statement on many levels.

You just described every individual on the planet who makes a living from selling a product. It doesn’t matter if you are a wholesaler, retailer, or individual this description says you buying a product with the intent to make a profit is unethical. This behavior is most definitely not illegal. The illegality you are most likely referring to is gouging. You are not gouging if you are selling a product for what the market deems its value is. Gouging is when you buy a truckload of water and charge $10 per bottle for it after a hurricane. The market does not say it is worth that, you are taking advantage of the situation to make much higher than normal profits. People listed magazines on gunbroker after this and people paid $75 for them at auction. That does not make the seller unethical. the people that later put the same magazines up as a buy now for the same price were charging what others had set the market at. If people buy gold because they think the markets will crash, gold prices go up. When your broker sells it to you at the current market price he is not doing anything illegal or unethical. Now someone selling the same product for twice the market value that is another story. Gouging really only applies to necessities. You don’t see people getting charged with gouging for selling a gold ring at too high a price.

This is where this post deviates from the quoted statement.

Are people panicking? yes most definitely. And unlike previous occasions this one is somewhat founded. Anyone in NY that bought an AR just before the new laws were passed gets to own one. Everyone else is SOL. Does that make the person who bought one a bad person? No it makes them smarter or better funded or both than the ones who didn't and now regret it. The entire concept of labeling people "hoarders" goes against everything this country is built on. Having what you need because you had foresight when others didn’t is not a bad thing. This is a Pandora’s box situation. If you label the prepared as bad you open the door to confiscation. In the Ant vs Grasshopper story. Under that logic they would have taken the Ants stores to feed all the grasshoppers that didn’t prepare and in the end everyone probably would have starved.

We are left with a serious ethical dilemma. Who gets to decide how much is too much. If I am rich and have a warehouse full of supplies at what point is it ok for you to take it and distribute it? Maybe my plans are to create a community from the survivors of a SHTF scenario and feed them all until things get up and running. But now that society has raided my stores and now there is nothing left to do as such. My point is not to push my ideals but to stimulate thought. If you think it is wrong because you cant buy something that you always have been able to buy because a bunch of people are panicking, to me that isn’t a good reason for such thinking. We are talking about shooting supplies here not food. Regardless the average American keeps less than one weeks worth of food in the house. Just because I have a years worth am I bad? I live in the middle of nowhere, I could get snowed in for weeks. An earthquake could close the pass that I use to get out and I could be trapped for months. So at what point does my preparedness become paranoia and who gets to decide where that threshold lies?

TXGunNut

02-05-2013, 12:28 AM

Well said, Phoenix. Profit is not a bad thing. Rumor has it capitalism is built on that concept. Being prepared is a a proven concept as well. My pantry will support me for weeks but being out of running water or electricity for a few days now and then will teach you how to do that. I don't have or need a huge cache of ammo but I'll never need to buy ammo to do what needs doing.
Am I a hoarder? Nope, just a 53 year old Boy Scout.

Stephen Cohen

02-05-2013, 01:50 AM

Not to insult anyone here but I am getting tired of hearing evil called insane. A truly insane person does evil things because he can't control himself; they need to be contained and given phychiatric help. Evil people choose to do wrong for power and they need to be shut down, hopefully at the ballot box. Once Obama flips the court, you will see pure evil unleashed on this country like you can not believe. I predict that the left will push for legalization of intergenerational relationships (pedophilia) and parents caught teaching their children traditional Judo-Christian morals will have their children removed and sent to more progressive, loving gay couples for proper instruction and upbringing. I would also predict that schools will start to tag kids they believe should be gay and start coaxing them in that direction. Didn't California just make it illegal to counsel those who sought help for their un-natural desires? We have a popular (among the left) Democrat here (Orentlicher D-IN) who has suggested that gay couples get first shot at adoptions because they can't make little ones. That is evil not insane!

I urge you all to consider the above, Some years ago our Prime minister Bob Hawk (well known for being a drunk) signed a paper on the united nations rights of the child, which stated we don't own our children the state does, children of 7yrs have sexual freedom and god help a parent that prevents this, parents were not allowed to force children to go to church, and much more. we even have children being taught in schools that homosexual life style is normal. fortunately our laws over ride this legislation, except for the homosexual rubbish. But it shows what socialism is all about.

Blacksmith

02-05-2013, 06:24 PM

A guy I know has been bugging me for Large Rifle Primers for weeks. I was in the gun store today and among other things they had three boxes of Winchester LRP the shelf tag said $37.50 so I bought a box and it rang up as $35.50. I emailed the guy who I'll see tonight and told him if he wanted them to bring money if he doesn't buy them I'll keep them myself.

Had to wait in line to give them my money the place was jammed like I have never seen it.

They had some primers but mostly odd stuff i.e. Large Rifle Magnum's etc., Powder was in pretty good supply, had dies but pricey, shelves and wall displays about 1/2 empty, a fair amount of ammo but two box limit, gun racks very thin and pistol cases decimated with no black rifles to be seen. The only price I looked at was an M1 Garand with Springfield Armory Receiver a CMP Special with tags on it they were asking $1,495.00 the CMP sells them for $995.00 plus $24.95 shipping.

The people shopping were not your usual crowd and the clerks looked frazzled.

Edubya

02-06-2013, 09:49 AM

If one company is putting out 4 million .22 rimfire per day, how can there be a shortage? These two videos show how they do it. Very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pvK9QlQtrKI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EdNkfTS0lOQ

EW

starmac

02-06-2013, 02:21 PM

There is no ammo shortage, just an abundance of panicked buyers. lol

Jim

02-07-2013, 09:13 AM

There is no ammo shortage, just an abundance of panicked buyers. lol

Bullseye! Give the man a cigar.

Down South

02-07-2013, 10:11 AM

Hey starmac, has it gotten crazy up there yet? Or is everything still pretty much available?

WILCO

02-07-2013, 10:12 AM

There is no ammo shortage, just an abundance of panicked buyers. lol

I would disagree on them being "Panicked". I would say it's more like the "Silent Majority" being woken up.

dakotashooter2

02-07-2013, 10:52 AM

What I learned after the last couple shortages was adapt and modify. Case in point, I don't have any handgun loads that require magnum primers but I have developed a couple loads that will allow me to use them if that is all that is available. They may not be the best loads but they keep me shooting.

PatMarlin

02-07-2013, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by chrisw
"To buy with the intent of profiting off of others is unethical (and often illegal)"

Isn't this the economic Obama doctrine in a nutshell?

runfiverun

02-07-2013, 01:04 PM

took me a second there pat.
but his doesn't work like that.
you are allowed to buy and sell at a profit. [mostly because you didn't create that opportunity]
however that profit is then taken away [minus your percentage allotment] and redistributed to those that need it [because of your greed and the governments need]
it's all for the good of the downtrodden, and stuff..

dakotashooter2

02-07-2013, 01:34 PM

It's like you're in Obamas head.............................................. .

cbrick

02-07-2013, 01:34 PM

it's all for the good of the downtrodden, and stuff..

And within the next four years the downtrodden will be America. Coast to coast.

Rick

Catshooter

02-07-2013, 11:00 PM

It's like you're in Obamas head.............................................. .

A closer aproximation to hell I can't envision.

Cat

Blacksmith

02-08-2013, 01:24 AM

The panic buying has hit the CMP with some ammo sold out, others have ordering limits imposed, and for certain rifles the taking of new orders has been suspended until they catch up on the backlog.

CMP
Sales Announcement 4 Feb, 2013 - ammunition
AGUILA .22LR AMMUNITION. The CMP is sold out of caliber .22 rimfire ammunition. The manufacturer, Aguila, has advised that the earliest we can expect resupply is late April, 2013, at slightly higher pricing. We are still accepting orders and will fill those orders as soon as we have received new inventory. At the rate that orders are being received for this backordered ammunition, the entire resupply quantity may be sold before it is even received. Anyone interested in receiving this .22 ammo should place their order now and get on the list.

LAKE CITY CARBINE AMMO. The caliber .30 Lake City Carbine ammo that we offered for sale beginning 2 Jan, 2013 will be sold out by 8 Feb, 2013. We still have over 1,000 orders for this ammo that have not yet shipped, but will be filled over the next few weeks. Aguila .30 carbine ammo (CMP item 438A) is still available for purchase.
UPDATE "Carbine ammo sold out" CMP Chief Operating Officer 02-07-2013

PURCHASE LIMIT ON HXP .30-06 ammunition. As a result of the purchasing frenzy of the HXP .30-06 ammunition, effective immediately CMP is imposing a 10 can per year per customer limit for CMP item number 4C3006X000-200 and 4C3006X000-200P (200 loose rounds in .30 cal can). The several thousand orders already received either through estore, mail, phone, fax, etc. will be honored. We regret having to ration this ammunition, but are doing so to ensure that future new rifle purchasers over the next 1-2 years have access to some of this ammunition.

Rifles
SA SG sold out today 02-05-2013 (One of the types of rifles they sell.)
"We have so many orders that it will take us months to fill. Rather than keep receiving orders and have to tell folks that their waiting time is a year, we just stopped accepting orders till we catch up." CMP Chief Operating Officer

mpmarty

02-08-2013, 01:46 AM

chrisw

02-08-2013, 03:04 AM

ok, I guess my ethics are different than most of ya'll.

sorry but when I see a guy buy a mag Tuesday for $9 and then sell it Tuesday night for 45, I was taught that's not Christian, its why its often referred to by the derogatory term "jewing" someone.

If your Christian I suggest you read your Bible or talk to your Preacher. If your not, then, like I said earlier, we have different ethics.

edit- I'm not talking about hoarding, heck, like I've said before, most of what some of you are calling hoarding isn't, its just saving for the future!

Down South

02-08-2013, 11:56 AM

OK I'm one of those horrible hoarders. Before Obama got elected I suspected what was coming and spent several thousand dollars (dollars that I earned and paid taxes on) I bought many jugs of Varget, RedDot, BLC-2 and other powders as well as all the primers Grafs would sell me. I'll never have to buy primers or powder again. I've got about three tons of coww ingots so I don't sweat zink or steel wheel weights. To those of you who didn't see this coming, shame on you. For those of you who saw it coming and didn't do anything to protect yourselves, you deserve exactly what you've got. If more Americans were aware of what's happening to us we would be better off.

I don't consider that hoarding but rather being prepared or just making sure you have plenty to enjoy your hobby.
I'm in about the same boat at you are with stock. I bought lots of components and tools through the years as I could afford them before panic buying ever started.
I have just over three tons of alloy too but that was collected over the years. I bought primers and powder at good deals in bulk orderes to offset Hazmat and shipping charges. There is no way that I could go to any LGS and purchase components cheaper than what I have invested in what I have.
I've collected brass for every caliber that I shoot then even some for calibers that I may purchase in the future.
I'm setting on what some would consider a gold mine in just 5.56/223 brass. I purchased MFRB after MFRB for pennies on the dollar compared to what it's selling for now.
No, that's not hoarding, supplies were plentiful and we took advantage of that. No one suffered because supplies were plentiful. People were just selling and buying as normal.

I purchased most of the stuff I have because its my hobby. I did have thoughts that if something like this did happen that I would be set up and not have to worry. But that was just a justification for my own mind even though I could not see anything of this magnitude on the horizon.