A thought about gun shows

[Ed Barrett]

I had idea that I thought might work, what do you fellows think? How about doing a background check on anyone going into a gun show? Anyone who got in could buy whatever firearms they want with no additional checks. It would keep the people that were not eligible out. Anyone could sell private party to private party at the show.

[fryboy]

"Anyone could sell private party to private party at the show."

the idea behind all this is registration of each and every gun leading up to eventual confiscation , the powers that are attempting this would never like your idea nor pass it
you also have to remember that they are making new laws every week adding to the list of ummm prohibited people ( do you recall the fiasco when they did the domestic violence no gun laws ? roughly 1/3 of the then current LEO's were actually now in violation by owning a gun , laws are easy to make , accusations are easy to make ( look at the no fly list for but one example )
i believe that the part in the second amendment "shall not be infringed" reads at face value , yes even those with bad intent should be able to get a gun , yet what the anti's fail to see is that while that person may then use said weapon assuredly some one else with a gun will put the [bleep] out of our misery , something else the left doesnt like as it doesnt put them in prison and grow the police/control state altho it would cut down on bad people doing bad things ...

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Here is one of the many things governed by the FOID card system in Illinois. Just one of a whole bunch. If you don't have a FOID card, you cannot buy ammo or guns in Illinois not matter what.


What is the definition of a firearm according to the FOID Act?

"Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding however:
any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or B-B gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;
any device used exclusively for signalling or safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;
any device used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and
an antique firearm (other than a machine-gun) which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.

700 fps. That ain't very much at all. Once they get a law on the books they can add all sorts of stuff as time goes by.

[koehn,jim]

Who is going to pay for it, and how long do you think it would make the process of gaining admission.

[cbrick]

Back ground checks have nothing to do with preventing crime, gun control laws have nothing to do with preventing crime. For the true meaning of gun control laws simply drop the word "gun" and the intent becomes crystal clear . . . Control laws.

Nope, I don't believe that running checks before, during or after the show will do anything except tighten the governments "control".

Trust NO government that doesn't trust it's citizens being armed. Just what is it that they have in mind for us that they feel they cannot do with an armed populace?

Rick

[perotter]

At gun shows here there are few private sales. So there is no need for everyone coming in to get a background check.

Also, read the Heller decision. The government can only regulate commercial sales. Private transactions can't be regulated.

[375RUGER]

You really think that background checks prevent crime?

[rockrat]

And what if the Gov of your state decided that he wanted background checks taking 7 days, so the background check people sent operators home so as to delay the checks. If you think it can't happen, think again. Checks are taking 7-9 days here, backlog of 10K plus checks. Now, if you have a background law check that has a provision in it that a check has to be completed within 10 min of the dealer entering the data or it is an automatic approval (not 10 min of beginning the check because they will then delay getting to the check, they're tricky there) it would cause problems, but what if someone want to go to the show, but doesn't plan on buying a gun, just get supplies/ammo?

[blackthorn]

In an ideal world, we would get rid of any and all "controls" and hold the individual (with NO exclusions) responsible and accountable for his/her actions!

[cbrick]

In an ideal world, we would get rid of any and all "controls" and hold the individual (with NO exclusions) responsible and accountable for his/her actions!

Silly Canadian. You can't do that, holding anyone accountable for their own actions would violate their rights. Political correctness dictates that it simply has to be someone else's fault. Now do you see the error of your thinking? :mrgreen:

Rick

[ElDorado]

Background checks for private party sales are already the law here in California. At the gun shows I’ve attended, they have a table with a FFL dealer who will handle private sales, or you can use any FFL dealer. I guess it’s just the honor system as to whether the selling and buying parties choose to participate. It is, after all, just a gun registration scheme.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Just because, I went to the Bass Pro site and tried to buy a pellet gun. I copied the warning I got because of my address.
Notice-- Airguns
The sale of all air guns is restricted in Delaware, Illinois (Chicago only), Michigan (Detroit only), New Jersey, New York (New York City only).You must be 18 or older to purchase. Please check your local laws and restrictions before purchasing an Air Gun/ Air Soft Guns. Air guns firing over 700 feet per second are restricted from sale to Illinois. For US sale only.
This is what we are living under right now. You have a FOID card and you can get this pellet gun. If you don't, you won't.

[mpmarty]

Oregon has a mandatory background check at gun shows to include "private" sales or transfers. Most folks just walk out to the parking lot and do their business.

[Jeffrey]

In Louisiana minor's driver's licenses are in "letter" (verticle) format. Adult's driver's licenses are in "portrait" format (horizontal). Why not have a different background to the picture, ID, some kind of easily noticed feature that identifies a felon. LEOs in New Orleans will clip the corners off a driver's license or put the staple through the eyes on a license picture to indicate to the next LEO that this guy gave them trouble. Why not something official on EVERYBODY'S ID to show "felon"?

[wv109323]

I thought about one back ground check with a permit issued to you. With the permit you could buy and sell as you wanted. Interstate intrastate or mail order. No restriction on guns , magazines or rifles. The government already knows more about you than you know about you.
I know it could be abused but there would have to be limitations on the time they could approve you.

[cbrick]

CA did something similiar, they passed a law that you had to pay the state a fee and take a test to buy a handgun & they issued you a card. This card is good for the rest of your life. By the time I left CA I was on my 3rd good for life such card. Each card was good for life OR until they changed their mind. Again.

Rick

[ElDorado]

CA did something similiar, they passed a law that you had to pay the state a fee and take a test to buy a handgun & they issued you a card. This card is good for the rest of your life. By the time I left CA I was on my 3rd good for life such card. Each card was good for life OR until they changed their mind. Again.

Rick

Are you talking about the Handgun Safety Certificate in California? That’s just to show that you passed the written safety test. You used to be able to show your DD214, hunting license, or LEO credentials in lieu of taking the test, but then the state wouldn’t be able to collect the $25 test-taking tax, I mean “fee”, so they made the test mandatory. The Certificate is only good for five years. Essentially, we have to pay $5 per year to the state for the “privilege” of buying a handgun. It must be a privilege, because you wouldn’t be able to tax the exercising of a right, right?

And then you have to pay another $25 when you actually buy a gun.

[mongoosesnipe]

in Michigan having a cpl negates the need for a back ground cheek as you get a thorough cheek when it is given to you and if you do anything wrong the take it away so if you have it your free to buy guns with out the call in process you just have to fill out your forms and your on your way

[Sergeant Earthworm]

I had idea that I thought might work, what do you fellows think? How about doing a background check on anyone going into a gun show? Anyone who got in could buy whatever firearms they want with no additional checks. It would keep the people that were not eligible out. Anyone could sell private party to private party at the show.

Media and government have so distorted the issues involved in violent crime that it is almost impossible to have a meaningful discussion on the subject, partly because there is so much emotion involved and partly because our culture doesn't have a shared vocabulary any more.

There are pretty much two basic problems we are dealing with: Drug related crimes and mainstreaming of people with diagnosed mental illnesses. The oft-repeated statistics of violent crime among the 15-24 year old demographic ("children" according to Bill Clinton and others) is almost entirely gang related and mostly due to turf battles among rival gangs of drug dealers. Trying to convince a banger who can make hundreds or thousands of dollars in a single drug transaction that it is better to work at Burger King is a waste of time. Stopping gang related violence requires intensive effort by the entire community to reach gang members and bring them to the point of seeing the immorality of their behavior. Granted, as said so eloquently in Cool Hand Luke, "Some men you just can't reach."

With regard to the mass murders such as in an Aurora, CO movie theater and at Sandy Hook elementary school, the perpetrators were people with behavioral disorders that had been identified by family members, mental health professionals, and even law enforcement well before the crimes. Rather than deal with the identified problems, those who were aware of a person who was/is potentially a ticking time bomb merely ignored the problem or passed it off to someone else.

More background checks is not the solution. But the progressives in government, the media, the ACLU, and others will not tolerate doing what is necessary to prevent horrific crimes like what happened at Sandy Hook. Why? Because when there is anarchy and violence they gain power, which is why you hear them blaming guns, gun owners, and gun manufacturers but rarely if ever the criminals.

My solution is to do away with laws preventing the law abiding from carrying concealed. Violent predators most often prey on "soft" targets, that is, people who are unlikely to fight or shoot back. If there is a reasonable possibility of potential victims defending themselves by return fire, many perpetrators will avoid the confrontation. In my experience, most perpetrators are cowards and bullies who will back down if confronted with the possibility of reciprocal use of force.

[troyboy]

You can't stop crazy. He murdered his mom and stole her guns. Those guns were purchased with a check and locked in a safe. What would more laws do to prevent this? laws are only relevant to law abiding.

[blackthorn]

Rick--- All things are possible IF enough people will participate, not just at the polls, but as card carrying members of "A" political party!! That is largely how both your country and mine fell into the mess we are in.

[cbrick]

Rick--- All things are possible IF enough people will participate, not just at the polls, but as card carrying members of "A" political party!! That is largely how both your country and mine fell into the mess we are in.

Don't go and take it personal. I was merely pointing out the obvious obsurdity by being obsurd. Of course you were correct.

Rick

[shooter93]

Here in Pa, we use a pics check not th national check, all laws are in effect for gun shows. As mentioned that in no way affects face to face sales in the parking lot. Background checks etc were not mentioned in the 2nd amendment not because the were ignorant or naive but rather because they KNEW the futility of such things.

[HodakaGA]

Why not require a background check to enter a gunshow?

What part of "shall not be infringed" does a background check fall under. I don't believe our founders included that.

I don't want crazy people to own guns either but if you give them an inch the camel will be in your tent eating your pizza. [smilie=1:

In Georgia a CCL holder doesn't need a check run. Why doesn't my 03 (C&R) FFL do the same? Or my mortgage broker registeration? Heck I've had 4 federal background checks run on me in the past 3 years for that stuff and been fingerprinted twice in the same period.

I'm tired of little by little giving up my rights.

[David2011]

Texas also waives the instant check if you have a concealed carry permit. YOu still have to fill out the 4473 but that stays with the FFL dealer until he closes up shop. Makes sense to me. If you are convicted of a felony they will confiscate your CHL card so it's a reasonable convenience for those who have gone to the trouble to get the CHL.

David

[a.squibload]

Remember when it was "Instant Background Check"?
No recording of data was allowed.
Then it was "well we NEED to enter the data in our system for at least 3 days",
and no prosecution of the managers of the system for breaking that law.
Every little bit you give in they will take 2 or 3 bits more...

[Thin Man]

TN issues a carry (concealment not mandated) permit to those who qualify. Very few people carry openly. However, that permit does not allow the holder to make any firearm purchase without submitting to the in-state run background check. TN collects $10 per check, and some (a very few) dealers charge their customers a bit more for the check. TN state personnel claim this mandated check is necessary to stop a transfer in case the buyer has become ineligible to receive the firearm between the time their permit was issued and the date of the check. Truth known, the revenues generated by the background checks are a HUGE element of the state's annual revenues, and are growing rapidly at this time. So much for good (claimed) intentions...

Thin Man

[bob208]

two things have been pointed out. i think they are the main things to look at. one if you are going to break one law what will another one or two matter. also it is just about the money. how to get it out of your pocket and into theirs.