My first post - My first casted bullets

[Black Wolf]

Hey everyone. First post here. Lurked a little to learn about casting. Just got done with these below. Couple questions though:
1. These (below) casted at .4525 (Lee Mould). I dropped them in water out of the mould to harden. I plan on lubing with Alox tonight. Should I be ok to reload them "as is" in my .45?
2. Can I use reloading data for 230 grain .45 ACP found in the manuals or do I need some "unique" reloading data specific for cast bullets? I currently shoot lead bullets from Valiant (230 grain .45 ACP) and was wondering if I should be using reloading data designed specifically for lead or cast bullets. Hate to have a big "Whoops!" on the range if you know what I mean.

Started with 80 pounds of WW (free from the tire shop). Cost zero.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i72/rterwilliger/Milsurps/Leadbucket.jpg

Casted 10lbs last night and got 342 bullets.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i72/rterwilliger/Milsurps/NewBullets001.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i72/rterwilliger/Milsurps/NewBullets002.jpg

[hunter64]

Welcome to the forum and the obsession we call casting.

1. Probably not, you might get lucky but you will have to see by making up a dummy load. Size a case as normal but don't put any powder or primer in it and seat a bullet as normal. Put it in your mag and try and load it in the pistol. If it feeds ok then you might be able to get away with it. I have 5 .45acp pistols and none of them will feed anything bigger than .451, you will just have to try and see for yourself. If it doesn't feed then you will have to buy a lee push thru die, they are cheap and work great with the alox stuff. As far as the lee liquid alox goes, where gloves that stuff is murder to try and get off your hands and it stinks like an outhouse.

2. A good book to buy is the Lyman Reloading book or really any reloading book for that matter will have both jacketed and cast reloading recipes for you. There are literally hundreds of sites on the web that have reloading tables and all of the manufacturers of powder also publish tables that are free on the web. Don't be surprised by all the different max. loadings with the exact same powder/bullet, one book will say 5.5 grns max and the next will say 6.0 grn. If I am approaching the max I look for pressure signs and take the published max on the powder manufactures web site as the latest correct amount. I have 7 reloading manuals and no two of them say the same thing.

[imashooter2]

Huh! I have 2 .45 autos and a .45 ACP revolver and all of them take Lee 452-228-1R as cast at .4525 without issue. So like hunter64 says, you'll have to load a dummy or 2 and see for yourself in your pistols.

You'll have a hard time blowing up a modern .45 ACP pistol with any load published by a manufacturer, be it listed for cast, jacketed, or no designation. But again, as hunter64 says, any good load book should list cast specific loads. They probably won't be for your exact bullet style, but you can use lead RN data for your weight (looks like 230?). Don't worry if they list 230 as the weight and your boolits actually weigh 228 or 232. Just start with minimum and work to max same as jacketed.

[SharpsShooter]

Welcome to the board! It appears you have made a fine start. As mentioned above the .4525 diameter will likely be ok, buy be sure they will function before you load many. It is a real pain to load several hundred only to discover that they won't reliably chamber or feed. I noticed in the pictures that you are tearing the base of the boolit when you cut the sprue. It probably won't make a bit of difference in accuracy at the typical distances most folks shoot their 45 ACP's, but when you start working on rifle or long range pistol, those bases need to be flat and smooth. Slow down a bit and allow the sprue to harden a bit longer, then swing the plate. Good start sir!


SS

[USARO4]

Nice start BlackWolf. With 45 ACP you may sometimes have a problem with cast boolits chambering in your pistol due to being slightly oversize as cast. If you have this problem the Lee Factory Crimp Die will solve it. By the way what did you do to your WW bucket? It looks like you slaughtered a hog in it, or is that red stuff some new and wonderful WW rendering compound?

[Black Wolf]

Thanks guys. OK, to answer everyone's post:

Hunter64: I'll make some dummy loads tonight and see how they feed. I have Lyman's Reloading book but left the dang thing at my sister's house in Michigan this last weekend, I'm in NC. She's sending it to me in the mail. I also did in fact purchase a Lee Resizing Die (.452 ACP) and Press so I'm good to go if need to resize. I was trying to avoid it since I've hardened the bullets (and which I believe is not really necessary for the .45 ACP since it's shooting less than 1600 fps or so).

Sharpshooter: Thanks for the tip. I'll remember to go a bit slower on the casting to make sure it's smooth on the bottom. Wasn't quite sure if I was going too fast or slow. First 50 or so turned out, well, mushy looking...but I think that once the mould got hot enough it started working like a champ.

USAR04: Well, I cut my finger and had a bit of a bleeding problem when I picked up the 80 lb bucket, blood squirted everywhere. LOL - just kidding of course. What the red stuff is, I used the bucket a day or so prior to picking up the WW for mixing some red stain for my deck. I was in such a rush to snag the WW's from the shop before they changed their mind that I didn't really care what I threw them in.

Anyone: As you can see (I hope) that these bullets are Lee's TL452-230-2R. I hope, based upon my newbie mind, that these are designed to be Tumble Lubed (hence the TL at the beginning of TL-452-230-2R? Am I right? Also, what does the 2R mean?

Moving on to my next step in the process, sizing the bullet (if needed), I need to know:
1. Process is: Lube bullet with Lee Liquid Alox per directions.
2. Resize in Lee's Sizing Kit using my .452 sizing die
3. Relube them after sizing the same way as step 1

Do I lose the hardness of quenching when I resize? Is my steps noted above correct?

Thanks for helping the newbie. Thanks for the compliments too. It's encouraging.

[ANeat]

Your .4525 bullets should shoot fine. I actually size my 45 acp bullets thru a .453 sizer that runs a touch small and they come out .4525. They are very accurate and I get zero leading.
And dont worry about hardness, At 45acp velocities even a pure lead bullet is fine if it fits the bore.

Yes the TL is for tumble lube, the 2R is refering to the nose of the bullet/radius (2*radius)

[Blammer]

Glad you found the place!

Sharpshooter, there is ONLY 1 or 2 that show the but of the bullet! You got sharp eyes!

[hunter64]

I re-read my post and I meant to say .452 and not .451, you can chalk that one up to early in the morning and late for work. Black Wolf you will learn more on this forum in one week of reading than reading reloading books for 5 years. I still am amazed at the wealth of knowledge that some of these people posses. The neat thing is we have people on here from all sorts of disciplines as far as work goes, chemists, geologists, people who work in foundry's , machinists, gunsmith's etc. and are more than willing to share some of there thoughts for the common good of everyone else. I don't think there is a day that goes by that when I get home from work I log onto the site and see what is new, if i go on vacation for a week, when I get home I have to go back and read everything that i have missed. Learning is a life long adventure.

[alamogunr]

I re-read my post and I meant to say .452 and not .451, you can chalk that one up to early in the morning and late for work. Black Wolf you will learn more on this forum in one week of reading than reading reloading books for 5 years. I still am amazed at the wealth of knowledge that some of these people posses. The neat thing is we have people on here from all sorts of disciplines as far as work goes, chemists, geologists, people who work in foundry's , machinists, gunsmith's etc. and are more than willing to share some of there thoughts for the common good of everyone else. I don't think there is a day that goes by that when I get home from work I log onto the site and see what is new, if i go on vacation for a week, when I get home I have to go back and read everything that i have missed. Learning is a life long adventure.

AMEN! When I am away for more than a day or so, I actually feel withdrawal symptoms. Go back and read the older threads. I've read some 2 or 3 times. Always something I missed the first time.

[Black Wolf]

Glad you found the place!

Sharpshooter, there is ONLY 1 or 2 that show the but of the bullet! You got sharp eyes!

Yup. Thanks for the direction to the site.

Job: Safety & Security Manager for a large transportation firm. Lot's of Wheel Weights at trucking companies.

I resized my boolits tonight to .452 after measuring them again they were from .452 to 4535 - figure I got the sizer might as well use it. Remind me not to use so much Alox Lube - Geezuz that stuff is sticky.

[Ricochet]

Anyone: As you can see (I hope) that these bullets are Lee's TL452-230-2R. I hope, based upon my newbie mind, that these are designed to be Tumble Lubed (hence the TL at the beginning of TL-452-230-2R? Am I right? Also, what does the 2R mean?
Yes, they're made to be tumble lubed, and the Lee Liquid Alox is what they're intended to be lubed with. There are other lubes that can be used.

If you use a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die on the loaded rounds, you probably don't need to size the bullets. Any cases that happen to be swollen a bit over the acceptable overall cartridge dimensions by an oversized bullet to the point that chambering may be affected will be sized down sufficiently by the die so this should be no problem. (That is also sizing down the oversized bullet inside the case.) This die also taper crimps the case mouth to aid in bullet retention and keep the case mouth from hanging up in the chamber where you flared it to seat the bullets.

The "2R" means that the ogive follows a curve whose radius is twice that of the bullet body. If it strictly followed that, it would come to a point, but on this design the nose is rounded off at the tip. A "1R" ogive is hemispherical.

[454PB]

All good information. All I have to add is that sizing will resoften the quenched boolits if it is not done within a few hours of quenching. It doesn't matter in your case, since WW alloy is plenty hard for .45 ACP loads. Another point, it's a lot less messy and conserves your LLA to use something else as a lube for sizing the boolits. I simply use a smear of boot waterproofing as a sizing lube every fourth or fifth boolit.

As to loading data for cast, any jacketed data for an equal weight boolit is interchangeable, cast boolits create less friction and lower pressure. However, seating depth must be appropriate. Seating bullets (or boolits) too deeply and thus reducing case capacity can get you into pressure problems real quick.

[44man]

I make my boolits hard and water drop for convenience. I might not size any for a few months. Mine are for high velocity in my hunting revolvers and long range shooting. It doesn't matter when I size them or if the surface softens a little, they all shoot exactly the same with no leading problems. I think the worry about a boolit softening is way overblown, don't worry about it at all.
One thing I do sometimes is if a mold drops a boolit a little small and I want it bigger, I size real soon after casting and let them grow some in diameter. If I need bigger yet, I don't size at all. If you need a smaller boolit, let them sit a week before sizing and they won't grow anymore.
Any alloy with antimony and tin will increase a little in diameter when left alone for a while.
You can regulate diameter not only by not sizing but by when you size.

[Ricochet]

If you do plan to heat treat any bullets after sizing, as I often do with gas checked rifle bullets, it works well to lube them for sizing with soapy water, or just a liquid soap like Murphy's Oil Soap. Rinses off easily after sizing and won't smoke up the kitchen when they're oven heated afterward.

[SharpsShooter]

SharpsShooter, there is ONLY 1 or 2 that show the but of the bullet! You got sharp eyes!

It is the eye of experience. I did the exact same thing when I first got into this stuff until I forced myself to slow down. I generally do a mental count of at least 15 after the pour to be sure I get a smooth base. Sometimes it takes a bit more if the alloy is really hot. Timing for the cut of the sprue cut is one of thoise things that depend on a lot of variables like mould material and temperature, and of course alloy temp.


SS

[Black Wolf]

Here's another newbie dorky question. When you tumble lube bullets and take the bullet out of the dish (or whatever your choice of container is), do you sit the bullets on end or do you just lay them there on their sides? Thought I might be able to save time and not stand them up - but if needed, I'll do it.

Resized my bullets last night to .452 - now time for a second lubing of LLA.

[imashooter2]

When I use LLA, I swirl them in an old Cool Whip container to apply and then turn them out onto wax paper. However they fall from the bowl is how they dry.

[Black Wolf]

10-4. Thanks. Saves me some time.

[45nut]

Well, a bit late in the welcome to :cbpour: but it appears everything is coming together for you. How ya like the forums?

[hunter64]

Black Wolf: Watch when you start to reload and you notice that after about 30 rounds the bullets for some reason are going deeper into the case then when you first started loading. What is happening is the Liquid alox on the nose of the bullet is starting to deposit in your seating die. Pull the die out and turn it over and look into it with a strong light and you will see a bunch of crap on the seating part at the bottom of the die (top if you are holding it upright the way you use it). Get some mineral spirits and use a q-tip to clean the crap out of there. I let my bullets dry on wax paper sitting upright and when I am ready to load I have a small dish of mineral spirits on the bench beside the bullets and when I am ready to load one, i simply dip the end of the bullet in the MS and wipe it on a rag first then seat it. I have also just done this before hand, doesn't take long and will save you having to pull the die out of the press every 20-30 or so to clean the gunk out. On my progressive press it drove me nuts and that is what I have come up with. On my rifle bullets I just use an old film canister and mix Mineral Spirits and alox about 60/40 or so and dip them in one at a time and let them dry on wax paper.

[Ricochet]

Yep. I burst a case in my .45 by shooting loads that the lube buildup in the seating die had pushed the bullets too deeply into. Didn't harm me or my Colt, but it popped the magazine out the bottom, sprayed my face with powder particles (how I still don't understand) and generally scared the fire out of me. If any get pushed in too deeply, be sure to use an inertia bullet puller to bring them back out to normal length before firing.

[Black Wolf]

Well, the title says it all. I'd probably be lost in the dark without them. I found out tonight that after weighing the supposedly 230 grain bullet, they actually weigh 220 (+/- 1 grain). I suspect that loading them to the specs of 225 grain bullet will still be ok. I'm gonna load them with Hodgdon Titegroup, O.A.L. of 1.250, 4.6 grains powder, according to Lyman's loading specs for cast bullet #452374.

Anyone see any problems with loading to those specs?

[45nut]

looks like you put in the homework. what is the range of TG..start-max?
I am partial to the middlin' loads myself, shying away from max loads in the 45acp.

It sure is interesting to watch the evolution from newbie to casting journeyman to veteran.....

[dromia]

Hi Black Wolf,

Welcome to these froums and the wonderful world of Cast Boolits.

Nice looking Boolits mate and as always good advice, let us know how they shoot.

[38-55]

Black Wolf,
Can't go wrong with using the lyman data for the 452374... I've shot tens of thousands of that boolit over 5.5 grains or so of unique... Good luck and enjoy the hobby !
Calvin

[Black Wolf]

looks like you put in the homework. what is the range of TG..start-max?
I am partial to the middlin' loads myself, shying away from max loads in the 45acp.

It sure is interesting to watch the evolution from newbie to casting journeyman to veteran.....

Lyman shows start at 4.5 grains and max 5.1 grains (min-max). Figure a good start load would be 4.6, Hornady shows 4.2 to 5.3 (min - max), Sierra shows 4.5 to 5.2 (bought a few books already), and still waiting on my sister to send me my other casting book.

Same here on mid power loads - especially for range purposes. Not too light, not too hot, just a like a good cup of coffee. :coffee:

Watch the evolution of a newbie to veteran - well, I'll be the first to admit that I have little knowledge on all this compared to ya'll. I most definitely, more than anything, want to do it right and safe. I don't want to damage any of my precious firearms nor myself. I don't have a lot of buddies who reload so my main source of know-how comes from the books and you guys, which are invaluable. Once I heard about casting, I thought, man - that's for me - an el-cheapo type-guy that likes to shoot for as little $ as possible; while at the same time honoring and learning an almost forgotten tradition of casting - and show my kids someday how to do it. I like the idea of "fending" for myself too - right-wing minded thinking I guess.

Seems like a great bunch of guys here.

[HORNET]

Black Wolf,
You're quite right about being able to save lots of money by casting. At least that's the theory :roll: . In practice, it's usually more likely that you won't save a cent but WILL shoot one heck of a lot more :???: . Of course, you could start cruising the group buys and living on Ramen Noodles like half of the members of this board[smilie=1: [smilie=w:
Welcome to the fun.

[Black Wolf]

Well, casted another 261 bullets tonight. Finally working the bugs out of my melting pot.

Group buys - I've seen that mentioned a bit here. Tell me about "group buys" and the benefits of it. Is it that you get a discount somewhere when you buy in bulk?

[Ricochet]

No. These are groups going in together to buy six-hole Lee moulds made for a custom bullet design, or one not normally available in a six-holer. They cost about $60, and Lee now says the estimated waiting time is 6 months. I'm waiting on three of these now; they go back to January.

If you want cheap standard moulds, look around at the online shooting supply dealers and compare prices with shipping.

[Bob Jones]

I shoot the same bullet, I found that about 1 out of 20 caused the gun to jam due to being a little oversize. Now I just run them all through the sizer.

[Black Wolf]

I've now casted over 1,100 bullets (just this week). Resized them all to .452 diam. I stopped by the local gun shop and picked up some one-time shot .45 brass, 100 casings, for $5.99 - that seems very reasonable to me so I bought 3 bags (or 300 casings). I'm anxious to see how they shoot and find a good load for them.