more dumb questions...

[exile]

Let me begin this thread by saying that I did not know where to put this, therefore maybe it is not an appropriate thread to be starting.

Although I have been reloading handgun cartridges for about six or seven years, I have never reloaded a rifle cartridge in my life. So, I have some questions. Some might say these questions are more appropriate for another forum, but I simply don't trust other forums. So...

My first question is, I have heard that when loading virgin rifle brass, that you should never load it higher the second time than you loaded it the first time. For example, if I load 32.6 grains of IMR 4064 in virgin brass the first time, does that mean I should not load 34.1 grains the second time? Maybe I heard this regarding loading light cast boolit loads in an unfired case the first time? I don't remember. I asked a friend who loads .243 and he said, "I don't know, I only reload factory brass." I understand that loads should be worked up in once-fired factory brass, but I'm just trying to get a handle on the basic principle here. My concern is that I will probably never load max loads, so does that mean I have to segregate my brass a lot?

My second question is, the Hornady manual states that when forming .243 brass from .308 brass, you should resize in a .7mm-08 resizing die the first time, or you will lose some brass. Anybody have an opinion on that? I ask because I will probably order a 7mm-08 resizing die if that is the case. A related question is, do you need to neck turn .308 brass after you resize it to .243? If so, what do tool do you use to accomplish this?

Finally, I recently ordered a Lee special order mold in .223 from Midsouth Shooters Supply. Does anyone know if they make a special order mold in .243? If they do I can't find one.

Anyway, most of these questions apply to loading j-words, and for that I apologize. But there you have it. Thanks.

exile

[Jim]

.....you should never load it higher the second time than you loaded it the first time....

I don't understand the thinking behind that and have never heard that. I hope some of the more knowledgeable handloaders here will chime in on this. I'd be interested to hear their comments.

My second question is, the Hornady manual states that when forming .243 brass from .308 brass, you should resize in a .7mm-08 resizing die the first time, or you will lose some brass. Anybody have an opinion on that?

I have necked .243 brass up to .308 in one step and necked .308 brass down to .243 in one step. I've never had a problem doing it. When you say 'loose brass', I assume you mean ruin a few cases. Yeah, I have ruined a few cases from time to time, but it was because of operator error.

Finally, I recently ordered a Lee special order mold in .223 from Midsouth Shooters Supply. Does anyone know if they make a special order mold in .243? If they do I can't find one.

I don't recall ever seeing one.

[Sweetpea]

exile, I have turned quite a few 7.62x51 into 243win, my process has been to first run them into a 308 neck sizer with the expander ball removed, and then run them into the 243 die and give it a double bump on the handle.

I then use the neck-turning tool on my trimpro to bring the brass down to specs.

[o6Patient]

.....you should never load it higher the second time than you loaded it the first time....

I don't understand the thinking behind that and have never heard that. I hope some of the more knowledgeable handloaders here will chime in on this. I'd be interested to hear their comments.

My second question is, the Hornady manual states that when forming .243 brass from .308 brass, you should resize in a .7mm-08 resizing die the first time, or you will lose some brass. Anybody have an opinion on that?

I have necked .243 brass up to .308 in one step and necked .308 brass down to .243 in one step. I've never had a problem doing it. When you say 'loose brass', I assume you mean ruin a few cases. Yeah, I have ruined a few cases from time to time, but it was because of operator error.

Finally, I recently ordered a Lee special order mold in .223 from Midsouth Shooters Supply. Does anyone know if they make a special order mold in .243? If they do I can't find one.

I don't recall ever seeing one.


I agree whole heartedly with the first two replies and can't speak to the third question at all.
I would think once your brass has been fire formed you can actually raise the load if anything.
Second question would be yes a transitional sizing die in between would certainly make for
a splendid job but also feel it's probably unnecessary. I've hear of people that go from 30-06
to 25-06 via a 270 but as many go directly from 30-06 to 25-06 without problem. (MHO

[Wayne Smith]

If you are necking 308 to 243 I assume you are resizing military brass. If that is the case, you will want the 7mm -08 die as the brass is heavier and thus the necks are thicker and you will loose fewer cases with the intermediate step. Even with civilian brass it is a good idea. I have and will be necking 30-40 brass to .25. The first batch I did I did not use my 7mm Mag die, I lost four of 50 pieces. Next time I get some 30-40 brass I'll get out my 7mm sizing die!

Secondly, that idea of not loading heavier is hogwash. We all do it when we load a ladder. I have no idea where it came from and I have never heard it until now. I have been reading about shooting and reloading and have been reloading since age 16, I am now 59. I would think I would have heard it by now if it was true!

Third, be aware, if you are sizing military brass, that it's extra thickness means a smaller internal size. This means high pressure with the same powder charges that you find in the manuals. Start with the lower charges and, if you don't have one, buy a chronograph. That is the most available way to find out what you are actually accomplishing. There is a direct very high positive correlation between pressure and velocity. You could almost say it's causal.

[exile]

Thanks for the kind responses guys, I'm sure the reference I heard was to loading light cast boolit loads in an unfired case and then loading a full power load in it thereafter. Still don't know if that is a problem, but you all have set my mind at ease. I think I am going to buy a 7mm-08 resizing die just in case it is a problem with military brass sometime down the road. Anyway, thanks again, I can always depend on this place to give me the truth.

exile

[r1kk1]

Lee used to make moulds from .22 caliber and up. It was production line. Over the last two or three decades they dropped the smaller calibers > 7 mm. There are companies who manufacturer moulds for most calibers. Accurate, Mountain, RCBS, Lyman, NEI, etc.

I have cases set aside for cast bullet use. They have a small nick I filed in the rim. I do the same for black powder loads if I load that for whatever caliber. I have read the same thing over the years of don't load full powder jacketed loads on cases used for reduced cast bullet loads.

Maybe someone can chime in and able to explain if this is an old wives tale or urban legend or an actual fact. I don't know.

Take care,

r1kk1

[Ben]

Lee used to make moulds from .22 caliber and up. It was production line. Over the last two or three decades they dropped the smaller calibers > 7 mm. There are companies who manufacturer moulds for most calibers. Accurate, Mountain, RCBS, Lyman, NEI, etc.

I have cases set aside for cast bullet use. They have a small nick I filed in the rim. I do the same for black powder loads if I load that for whatever caliber. I have read the same thing over the years of don't load full powder jacketed loads on cases used for reduced cast bullet loads.

Maybe someone can chime in and able to explain if this is an old wives tale or urban legend or an actual fact. I don't know.

Take care,

r1kk1

Could you show us a photo of a production line Lee, .22 cal. mold.

I'm unaware that Lee every made production line molds in .22 cal. ? ? ?

[Jim]

[QUOTE=r1kk1]"Lee used to make moulds from .22 caliber and up. It was production line. Over the last two or three decades they dropped the smaller calibers > 7 mm....."

Either they manufactured and dropped the caliber prior to the mid 80s or I've been asleep at the switch all that time. I started casting about that time and have no memory at all of Lee producing a .22 caliber mold as part of their line.

[r1kk1]

I do not have older catalogs any more. I have no idea why they dropped the smaller > 7 mm other than sales. It may have been sales that killed it off. They also quit the Lee target loader. Maybe some has an older midway catalog or lee from the 80s.

Take care

r1kk1

[flounderman]

unless you have a supply of 308 brass, why bother buying 308 to make 243. Buy some fired 243 brass and be done with it. You can buy 243 brass for 20 to 30 dollars a hundred. Once you have fireformed the brass to your chamber, back the full length die off to where it sizes about 3/4 of the neck and as long as the cases will easily enter your chamber, don't size any more than this. seat a bullet to where the rifleing engraves it and then adjust the seating stem to where the bullet just don't touch the rifeling. If the case neck will hold a bullet after fireing, you need to either ream, or turn the necks or sometime trim the case length.

[Wayne Smith]

The only case I can think of where that statement is valid is when one drills out the flash hole to use gallery loads without primer set back. If the flash hole is drilled out to a larger diameter these cases should be reserved for that use only.

[r1kk1]

I sent an email when they stopped making moulds < 7mm. I got my response:


It has been approximately 25-30 years now since they were made on a production basis. We make a custom 22 bator, 7mm and 6.5 Swede mold for Midsouth, that they have available for a fair price. These custom runs are only available through midsouth shooting supply.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/department.asp?dept=RELOADING&dept2=LEAD%20BULLET%20CASTING&dept3=SPECIAL%20ORDER%20MOULDS

Thanks,

Andy

Lee Precision, Inc.
4275 Highway U
Hartford, WI 53027
phone: 262-673-3075


He didn't answer my question why they stopped making them. I knew I seen production stuff decades ago.

Take care

r1kk1