Navy Arms Brown Bess Musket on gun broker

[GARD72977]

I found this on gun broker. I have been on a muzzleloader kick and really looking at 75cal stuff. Have not read much about these. Just wondering about the quality. Im more nervous about buying a flintlock that is mass produced. I have plenty of ML to hunt with now. ( I would be tempted to work up a shot load and hunt squirrel). Any opinions about Navy arms or Brown Bess Muskets?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=326308706

[KCSO]

They actually are a pretty good gun. They are India model Brown Bess rather than the earlier model but only a true M/L fiend would nit pick them. I don't know what you intend to do with it but you should consider that they are heavy and take a lot of lead and powder. I had mine cut down and used it for a canoe gun for ducks and turkey along the river. It shot r/B OK but a 75 caliber ball and 90 grains of FFG was tring to shoot in the smooth bore matches so I went to a trade gun.

[GARD72977]

not sure why I want a .75 I just do? I have been thinking of a Northstar trade gun. Just ordered 36cal gun to be built and not really interested in another long term buy right now. I would like some instant gratification. I had rather have the trade gun so I guess that two guns so close in application does not make sense. I really would like to try to build a kit but I have so much going on I know I would not finish it. I have a few days until the auction ends. I have bought 3 muzzleloader in the last month and have not shot one yet! I sold a lot of stuff and just making a realignment on this hobby. If I leave the money in the bank the little woman will find away to get it in the the general fund and the money will be gone!

How is the lock on the Navy arms. Im new to flintlock and do not want to buy something thats known to be a problem.

[fouronesix]

GARD,
Here's a link to a thread on another forum from a few years ago that might give you an idea about the Brown Bess you are looking at on GB. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/224060

A Brown Bess is a handful! Not so much heavy but they are large. Recoil, with reasonable charges that you want to shoot anyway, is no issue either. However, they do consume and may require a "carbon credit" if shot much :)

Actually in many ways they are more fun than practical. They do offer a hands-on peek into the past. A 'few' were fired in the movie "The Patriot".

[GARD72977]

what is the value of a gun like this? Im still not sure that I want to buy one. Im really liking the idea of a smooth bore. I can see the look on my friends faces when I show up with this to squirrel hunt! Im talking myself into it

[fouronesix]

On value- got me? I do know the originals in decent shape bring a pretty high premium! Once in a while a semi-custom (built from kit parts and assembled by a reasonably good builder) Brown Bess shows up on Track of the Wolf for something around 850-1500. I see some Bess's of questionable quality from who knows what "factory" on the market right now for a lot less- something like 500. I wouldn't go anywhere near one of those! The Pedersoli would be a good way to go IMO. The gun on GB looks like an earlier Pedersoli that has seen some use. It kind of reminds me of one coming out of the re-enactor ranks. Many times those only show minor handling dings, have not fired many live rounds with a ball, have shot a bunch of BP blank rounds and have been refinished to dull down the factory finish. Really the only thing that could wear out on those would be the frizzen. But that would be a relatively easy fix. If the bore has been taken care of and has no pits, the $ seems about right.

[GARD72977]

The guy says the bore is good. I know this is a huge gun but can you hunt with it as a fowler?

[fouronesix]

Sure, it will work about like a cylinder bore 10 ga. So, as for any shotgun, working up non-toxic shot loads when required. Or using regular lead shot for non-restricted use or non-restricted areas. To say it will be a reliable 60 yard shotgun- NO. I've played with one a little and it will require some load work up and time at the range with some patterning paper. Based on my experience; as an example it might be ok for turkey at a max of 20-25 yards and probably about the same for most fowling. You can look up in the top of the ML section and go through the sticky on ML Shotgun loading for some tips.

[waksupi]

I had a 12 bore for my first fowler. That almost made me quit shooting them. The recoil can be rather impressive, especially with ball. I really prefer a 20 bore smoothie, and have killed turkeys and grouse out to 35 yards with them.

[Boerrancher]

A Bess is a hand full of gun that is for sure. I have fired them and in all honestly unless you load them way down they are not much fun. I like Ric prefer the 20 ga. My 20 ga will kill a deer grave yard dead inside of 80 yards, and with the right load of #5s I can dang near knock all the hair off of a squirrel at 30 steps. Killing a turkey with it is no trick at all, and even with a stiff load it is still a pleasure to shoot. In all honesty my 20 ga North West trade gun is my favorite gun I own. Not just MLs mind you but all my cartridge guns as well.

Best wishes,

Joe

[DIRT Farmer]

I shot a Pedersoli Bess for years on the Quail walk and skeet range at Friendship, did OK on 10 yd trap (for me) have taken ducks, geese, quail, rabbits deer and around 20 turkeys. With proper load devolopement 35 yards is no real problem with 1 1/8 of shot. Round ball and a stiff powder charge will leave a mark on you. Mine uses 11 ga wads. The gun was designed origonaly for 50,000 cycles according to British ordance documents. A modern built from a quality maker should last as long as you need it.
As some have noted as I aged, I went toa 20 ga, then a 28. Other than not being legal per DNR rules, for turkey, my 28 will and has done every thing I need for hunting and breaks clays very well as some here know.

[Sergeant Earthworm]

I have a Pedersoli Brown Bess and it is a blast whether shooting a patched RB or shot. I use a .735 RB in my BB, check the manual to see what is recommended for the Navy Arms gun. Track of the Wolf sells inexpensive .761 over powder wads and shot cards, together with 90 grains ffg and 90 grains #6 shot (by volume not weight and you have a very serious 11 gauge fowling gun. No guarantees that will work with the one you are looking at, but adjust the charge and amount of shot if the pattern isn't what you are looking for. Track also sells good quality English flints, a must IMHO.

[fouronesix]

GARD,
Lots of anecdotes about the effective range of one of these on game but do yourself and the game a favor and shoot at large sheets of paper when working on loads. Also, just for a comparison and to keep things in perspective-- if you have a regular hi power shotgun with a modified or full choke, shoot it at the patterning paper with the same size shot while working on the ML loads.

[GARD72977]

I have the guns for economy. I want something over the top. Im a pretty big guy. I think Im going to get a Bren Bess, It may or not be this one. Also looking at the sharps paper cartridge.

[GARD72977]

I found a website that sell new Brown Bess guns. The price is much cheaper. Makes me nervous about buying on on a auction.
http://flintlockrepair.com/flintlockmuskets1.html

[waksupi]

Lots of luck buying a gun made in India. Don't shoot it near anyone, so no innocent people get hurt.

You get what you pay for. You know a Navy Arms won't blow up.

[GARD72977]

Lots of luck buying a gun made in India. Don't shoot it near anyone, so no innocent people get hurt.

You get what you pay for. You know a Navy Arms won't blow up.



I think you jumped the gun! No pun intended. I want to stay away from the cheap guns Im just not sure that I know enough about them to judge what Im looking at. I see that Cabelas has the navy arms on sell for 999.00 that may be my best bet. I will atleast know what Im getting.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Have a Navy Arms Brown Bess that was made before 1980 as the re-enactor was already using it then. I shoot it whenever up here. The main spring is getting just a little slow. Put a shoe on the frizzen this September so it is probably good for another 35 years.
They will take down crows with #6 or (my favorite) an equal mix of #4 and #6 out to 30 yards.
With RB I would not hessitate to pop a corn cruncher out to 50 yards but standing still.
For shot I use a level 85 grain scoop for 2F, a thick cork wad, same scoop full of shoot but heaped, then half a cork wad that was soaked in crisco over the top. Use 3F to prime. My lock likes about1/3 pan for 100% reliability. I must always wipe my flint and frizzen face after shots. With my barrel dropping to 85 grains improves the pattern dramaticly and a crow at 30 yards will fall just as well.
Mike in ILL

[gnoahhh]

I carried a Pedersoli Bess for many years as a re-ennactor. As far as I'm concerned the Pedersoli's are the best of the lot. These are indeed 2nd Model Short Land Pattern guns, 'India' Pattern guns have a different stock shape, and subtle differences in the lock. The Long Land Patterns are more accurate time-wise for F&I period.

I only ever fired paper cartridge blanks (thousands), and paper cartridge ball ammo. .715 diameter balls worked best in mine, as like I said I was loading with cartridges and the foolscap paper I used took up the windage in the bore nicely. (The ancients called the slop between ball diameter and bore diameter 'windage'.) 80gr. Goex FFFg gave me my best accuracy. Recoil certainly isn't an issue with that heavy gun. For blanks we rolled our cartridges with 100 grains FFFg- gotta make a nice bang, you know! I could count on regularly hitting a gallon milk jug at 50 yds., and often enough at 100 yards to impress people.

I never fired shot out of it, so I can't address that issue. I always had dedicated ML shotguns to fill that need. I did whack a doe at about 30 yards with a round ball once. Lordy, what a wound it made.

Sadly I no longer own it. I sold it a few years ago and used the money to buy a round trip Lufthansa ticket to Germany.

[jimb16]

I've got an old Dixie Arms Bess that I've been shooting for over 30 years. I'm a reenactor too. This old Bess has taken ducks, sqirrels, rabbits and deer. The guys laughed at me on the skeet range til I pulverized a few clays. Problem was, I couldn't see the hits! Most of those locks are so strong that I think they would spark with a chunk of ice in place of the flint! Very reliable ignition. I also use a Charleville from Navy arms. I've been shooting that for 28 years. Also very reliable and much easier to disassemble for cleaning. Being .69 cal. you can use 16 ga. wads.