Hawken rifle firing problem

[AksDIY]

i picked up a hawken rifle in a trade the other day, my problem is; I load my powder wad & boolit, then my percussion cap. go to shoot but my cap pops but no boom. Its like my caps is not strong enough. I've cleaned & cleared all openings but same results. Do I need to use magnum caps?

[waksupi]

Are you using real black power? That is always the biggest help.
When you pour in the powder, bounce the rifle lightly on the ground a few times, or slap the breech, to settle the powder in the channel. Being a patent breech, they can be finicky.

[nhrifle]

I'm embaraassed to say but I havn't shot my Hawken in quite awhile. I use CCI caps on mine, pretty sure they are #11 magnum caps, but there are a few more things to check. Before you load, swab the barrel dry. With an empty barrel, snap a few caps to completely dry and clear all channels. Load normally, cap, and fire. That is the normal situation.

What are you using for powder? Some of the substitutes can be a bear to light, and without exception, real-deal black powder is absolutely the best propellant to use. Easiest to light, much more consistent, and cleanup is easy.

If your rifle is still loaded and you have a ball puller, pull the boolit and dump the powder. If not there are a couple things that can be done. If you have access to compressed air, remove the nipple and give a few sharp bursts of air down the nipple hole with the barrel pointing in a safe direction. Otherwise, get some 3F or 4F powder and trickle some into the nipple hole, cap and fire safely. One of these should get it unstuck.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Even with the 'subs it should go boom with std primers.if you blow through the barrel is air coming out easily from the nipple?

[nhrifle]

I had a couple of hang fires with Pyrodex, that's why I mentioned that.

[451 Pete]

As was mentioned above, sometimes a patent breech can be finicky. If you had cleaned and wiped the barrel before trying to load and shoot the rifle did you make sure that the passages were clear just before loading? Many times it takes just a small amount of solvent or oil from cleaning or storage to stop the spark from the cap getting to the powder charge. I always point the rifle at a blade of grass or a small leaf on the ground before loading the rifle for the first shot and snap a couple of caps to dry it out or to clear any oil that may have settled or migrated to the nipple and breech area from either cleaning or storage before loading.

just my thoughts .... Pete

[oldracer]

When snapping the caps, I always point the muzzle at the ground to see if the dirt/grass moves a little. If not then I clean things again. I also have my rods marked so I can tell if they are bottomed when cleaning. A year or so ago I had the tiny reflector fall off the end of my borescope and I never noticed it. The gun would not fire as the reflector was blocking the flash hole. I ended drilling and taping a cleaning hole 90 degrees to the nipple and now can pull the set screw plug and actually see the cleaning rod/patch at the bottom of the barrel. Many guns have this but the early T/C Hawkens did not it seems.

[AksDIY]

hey thanks for all the info, will be checking on all of these, as far as powder, the last load was triple 7 2f, have since recleaned, blew air thru the nipple and get air out of the barrel. it does seem that the nipple hole is extremely small, and have cleaned it. will be going back over everything again. thanks

[10 ga]

When not loaded remove nipple, then take a pipecleaner and push through the lead to the charge area, check for obstructions and rust/corrosion. Clean thoroughly then put nipple back on. When you load use some finer powder like FFF or even FFFF in small charge, after pouring in tilt gun so powder goes into lead and tap and shake, then put a firm wad over charge and "light the fire", pointing in a safe direction. Should go BOOM. When working on abused MLs I "rod out" the lead with copper wire to clean as best can and remove corrosion. Also, "Holy Black" is the best thing to use with the subs being only second best. Good luck, 10 ga


lead dust

[AksDIY]

went back and cleaned out the charge area, loaded 40gr 3f, + wad, did the tap & shake, used cci #10 percussion cap(all i have at moment), and BOOM! worked great. thanks for the info guys....now onto my kentucky rifle...

[docone31]

It should be #11 cap. That might be an issue there. I have also found cleanout screws can protrude into the chamber and block the flame.
Might just have the wrong nipple on it. Which "Hawken" is it? I say "Hawken" as they are mostly modern plains rifles. The lines of the Hawken is a little different.
Does it have the patent breech, or a drum?

[AksDIY]

not sure of what you mean, this is what i have, Sears and Roebuck model 292.51779. Hawken 50 caliber rifle. It has a Miroku barrel.

[carbine]

I changed my nipple to a musket nipple. Plenty of fire and no misfires.

[mooman76]

The nipple hole is suppose to be small. It helps to dry fire a few caps before loading your first shot. It helps dry up any oil/liquid residue. 777 may be a little harder to light but I haven't used it yet.

[GabbyM]

If you don't fire two caps through it after cleaning it won't go boom for you.

[Boerrancher]

If you don't fire two caps through it after cleaning it won't go boom for you.

I hear guys say this all the time, and I see guys at the range do this and there is still no boom. I don't know how many MLs I have broken down for folks on the range to get them to boom. I on the other hand with my 32 which is a percussion gun I never pop a cap or two on it before loading it. I take it out of the rack, dump powder down the bore, stomp a PRB down on it, and cap the nipple with what ever NO 11 cap I can find. I have never not had it go boom. If you clean and put your gun away properly it will be ready to load and shoot.

On to the OP's problem. Once the ball is out and every thing is clean, make sure you pull out the nipple, and any clean out screws. Use a long pipe cleaner to go through all of the openings and up into the patent breech. Pull it out and look at it. It should be clean, no black. Next if it is clean, smell it. If it smells like cleaning products, keep running pipe cleaners in to it until there is no longer a solvent smell to them. Once this is done put it all back together and load and shoot. If I put a ML is storage for a long time I swab inside and out with a light oil. Most of the time I put them away dry since I will be shooting it again in a day or two.

For one coming out of storage, I swab the barrel until there is no solvent smell on the patch and it comes out dry. On a cap lock I use the pipe cleaner trick and put it all back together. When I am done it is ready to shoot. To me firing off a couple caps before I load is a waste of valuable caps. Cleaning supplies are much less expensive than caps. And if you want to avoid all the nonsense all together, trade the cap lock for a flinter. They are so much easier to deal with.

Best wishes,

Joe

[OverMax]

When using triple777 in a traditional style of rife. Remember to reduce your charge by 15% when compared to loose Black Powder & Pyrodex loadings. My simple suggestion concerning ignition of loose triple 777 in a traditional rifle> Consider using a musket cap ignition on that Hawken of yours AksDIY.
.

[fouronesix]

AksDIY,

For a standard #11 nipple-- using a #11 cap will help with reliable cap ignition from the hammer strike. If no availability of the #11 caps (some suppliers are out!!) then just chuck the nipple in a drill and dress down the nipple with a file so a #10 cap fits snug but all the way down until it bottoms out. There is no reason a regular cap won't fire one of these. A musket cap may just mask other problems with its ability to blow through junk in the flash channel but sooner or later it won't. And right now musket caps are at least as scarce as some of the regular caps plus many of the musket caps currently sold and supplied are no more powerful than a regular #11 cap.

Chances are pretty good that first "no fire" was a result of junk (oil or solvent or residue fouling) in the flash channel. That's always a possibility after storage, after cleaning, after a lot of shooting or even after swabbing at the range. To help ensure first try fire- correct cleaning after a day's shooting is a must and that includes removing the nipple and cleaning out the flash channel into the bore. Before shooting for the day, there is always oil somewhere in the bore or there should be!! and one way to guarantee a clear flash channel after storage and oiling or swabbing is to pour a little denatured alcohol down the muzzle and let it drain out the nipple. Then run a tight patch up and down the bore a few times to help evap the alcohol and circulate air through the nipple. After a couple of minutes fire a cap with the muzzle near something on the ground to make sure the channel is clear. Load and fire.

If those steps are followed- there will be no more cap-only-pops on the first shot. If using one of the BP substitutes then no guarantees on anything.

[7of7]

What I do, is take my Saf-T Unloader, and give it a shot to blow anything out of the channel.. Run a patch down the bore, leaving it at the bottom, snap a cap, and then look at the patch.. if it is black,... good to go.. (I may stop doing that, as it wastes a cap..)
I have a bunch of caps.. some I got from my Dad, so they are pretty old.. I use them at the range, as some of them don't fire at all.. or they will fizzle..LOL

[waksupi]

What I do, is take my Saf-T Unloader, and give it a shot to blow anything out of the channel.. Run a patch down the bore, leaving it at the bottom, snap a cap, and then look at the patch.. if it is black,... good to go.. (I may stop doing that, as it wastes a cap..)
I have a bunch of caps.. some I got from my Dad, so they are pretty old.. I use them at the range, as some of them don't fire at all.. or they will fizzle..LOL

That isn't wasting a cap, that is how the rifle is supposed to be operated.

[7of7]

Thanks Waksupi

[nhrifle]

Something has been mentioned a couple times on this thread and I have never heard it before, hoping someone can explain it. What is a patent breech?

[Mooseman]

there are several styles of a patent breech... http://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/Item.aspx/666/1

I must add that if popping a few caps is gonna break you,you are in the wrong hobby.Firing a cap insures an open flash hole and any oil is cleared from the nipple before loading. I watch for the blast out the barrel before I ever load powder.

[mooman76]

The patent breech has a narrow channel in the breech. This makes it a little more difficult to clean because it is smaller than bore size and gunk can accumulate there causing misfire problems.

[Green Lizzard]

sometimes if the cap is too tight 1st hammer strike will only seat the cap next strike wii fire the gun

[7of7]

sometimes if the cap is too tight 1st hammer strike will only seat the cap next strike wii fire the gun
I put the cap on the nipple, let the hammer down on it, and then push on the hammer.. I very rarely will get a seating strike.

[waksupi]

I put the cap on the nipple, let the hammer down on it, and then push on the hammer.. I very rarely will get a seating strike.

If you have to do that, you need to fit the nipple. Take it out of the gun, chuck it up in a drill, and take some sand paper to it, until the cap is an easy snug fit.

[Geraldo]

If you don't fire two caps through it after cleaning it won't go boom for you.

Not necessarily true. I have always snapped caps, but recently I traded into a Lyman GPR. All I've been doing with it is dry patching the bore to get the oil out, then I use a .30 brush with a patch to dry out the patent breech. I then load the rifle and hunt and I've had no ignition problems with standard #11 CCI caps. I've even left it loaded (uncapped) overnight and had no problems. YMMV.

The original poster doesn't say whether he dry patched the barrel or popped caps. If he didn't I'd say that's the problem.

[AksDIY]

i dry patched the barrel. I just had to go back and remove the nipple and give the breech and nipple a thorough cleaning, nipple hole was clogged up a bit, but I used some wire from a torch tip cleaner to get the gunk out(so to speak) , everything works right as rain now.
have gone out and shot several times in the last few days, even with #10 caps it fires good, #11's work a bit better i think, but until i get some more caps( or find some way to make my own) i'm gonna use what i have..
But thanks to all of ya'll for the advice & help..