Best Factory .223 Bolt Gun?

[uscra112]

Watching the prices of Mini-14s skyrocketing due to the current crisis, and I'm seriously considering creaming off the profit on mine to invest in a bolt gun that will shoot .223/5.56 ammunition. Being an antique collector, (and an antique myself), I know nothing at all about modern rifles for this cartridge. So I'm looking for recommendations. Want something off the shelf that's light and handy enough to carry in the field, and fast twist so I can use the lot of 75 grain ammo I made up for the Mini. Ideas ?

[nhrifle]

Get a Savage and shoot happily for a long time!

[Artful]

Do you want removable magazine or blind magazine?

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/70937
Savage Axis Pkg retail $337.84
https://s3.amazonaws.com/savagefiles/firearms/models/full/R8pV51HYB_fBWU36vuJ.png

http://www.mossberg.com/rifle-calibers/556mmnato-223-rem
http://www.mossberg.com/assets/scripts/timthumb.php?w=625&zc=0&src=http://www.mossberg.com/sites/default/files/1329324380/%2327715_MVP_PREDATOR_18.png
http://www.mossberg.com/product/rifles-bolt-action-centerfire-mvp-centerfire-predator-combo/27715

[uscra112]

Hmmm. Removable magazine probably. Mossberg - hadn't even thought about them.

[GabbyM]

I like the idea of using the AR mags in the bolt gun. Since I’ve several 20 round mags. Just a simple way to carry spare ammo. But those rifles weigh in at a published 7 lbs. Not a big deal but personally I’d like a 223 close to 6lbs.

Also don’t know of any off the shelf bolt gun in 223 with the 1:8” minimum twist you’ll need to shoot those 75 grain bullets.

I like the looks of the Savage Model 11 Lightweight Hunter. Comes in at 5.5 lbs naked with a 20” barrel. Downside is the price tag. They have 1:9” twist barrels like the Mossberg.

[Jack Stanley]

My Stevens model two hundred became much more accurate after having the action steel bedded . I don't remember how jacketed bullets performed but the cast I use in it now worked up to my abilities at least .

As to the "best" I would guess maybe a mini Mauser action or an older Remington . Wanting to shoot the heavies though you'd definately want to check the twist .

Jack

[uscra112]

Speaking of Mini-Mausers, I was drooling over CZ's on the web last night. Mighty pretty, but the 12 twist puts me off. 'Course, I could should just pull all 300 of those 75 grainers and start over. The Mini has a 7 twist, and they shoot pretty well - for a Mini. . .

[TCLouis]

A coworker had several.

NOTHING beat his Savage and so he sold them all including a really nice Tikka

[uscra112]

Which model Savage?

[kbstenberg]

Uscra I had an Axis in 223. Accuracy was good. But it had a problem with cycling the cartridges into the chamber. Sometimes the bullet nose gets caught above the chamber. At other times the base of the case didn't come out of the magazine.
Funny you should mention CZ. I just bought a 527 American not 4 hrs ago. Used
Kevin

[MostlyOnThePaper]

Add another vote for the Savage. I would throw in the caveat that I wouldn't use surplus 5.56 as I think it is loaded 10-12,000 psi hotter than the 223. Surplus unlinked 7.62 ammo would cause a sticking bolt on my FP-110 before I knew better, 5.56 could well do
the same, YMMV.
Randy

[Dan Cash]

My CZ 527 produces the most incredible accuracy for an out of the box rifle I have ever seen. It will not stabilize 62 gr. and heavier bullets but does well with 55 gr. and under.
Very light weight, feeds flawlessly and does not object to mil surp ammo as long as the bullet weight is 55 gr. or under.

[square butte]

Is there a bolt gun that will handle 5.56 and .223?. I am aware of the issues involved in shooting 5.56 out of a .223 chambered gun. Would a bolt gun with a chamber modification such as a wilde chambering solve the problem? Can we assume that a similar fix is avialable/or not with a bolt gun that will safely function with 7.62?

[Three44s]

To me, the flag ship of the bolt guns is the Rem 700.

That said, I have a CZ 527 American that's the nicest walking gun you could ever imagine. The factory single set trigger is great also, not as good as a Canjar though. You correctly identify the one fly in the ointment ...... the standard twist won't work with your heavy for caliber bullets.

I have really immersed myself in Savages as I am closet tinkerer. And though I have not warmed up to the Axis model because I am not familar with what will interchange and what will not work in them ..... I have no fear when it comes to any straight up and down Savage or Stevens, we are talking models with "digits" for names.

With the Savage you could switch out the barrel to the twist you desire. You might have to find a custom barrel to get a twist tight enough for a "75" however. I think the tightest I have seen in factory barrel take offs for sale was a "9".

Feel free to PM me.

Best regards as always!

Three 44s

[Jim]

I'm waiting for a rifle I recently ordered. I'm lacking in the stature department, so I wanted a rifle that wouldn't be difficult for me to handle. After my research, I settled on the Savage Axis Youth model in left hand (I'm wrong handed!) .223 bolt. The rifle is 40" long, the barrel is 20" long with a 1:9 twist and the rifle weighs 6.2 pounds.

59165

I can work up subsonic loads with Bator boolits for small game and casual recreational shooting for Janet. I should be able to kill 'yotes with it at out to about 150, maybe even 200 yards. For my personal wants, I think this is going to be a really good rifle.

[Doc Highwall]

Jim, you may be wrong handed but you are in your RIGHT MIND!

Ask me how I know.

[uscra112]

Thanks for all the input. Still cogitating. I'm gonna give up on using the 75 grainers. A 9 twist will handle 60s, and that'll do. Love the feel of my 700 in .243, but they're spendy and a little heavy for a walking rifle, especially at my advanced age and state of decrepitude. Savage barrels always seem to get raves. I've got a 112 (.300 Win Mag.) - the design appeals to the manufacturing engineer in me, but the "real-Mauser" action of the CZ appeals to my antiquarian self. Love the real wood, too. But the 12 twist - I dunno. Laminated is an acceptable compromise, so now I'm kinda leaning Savage. Wish the panic hadn't emptied the stores so. I have to drive a full hour to get to the nearest large dealer to do a sight-and-touch, and in these times I'd expect to find empty racks.

Then of course there's the Savage 340 (.222) in the back of the safe - it'd be easy to rebarrel. SAAMI pressure is only 1500 psi higher . . . . . Got it out last night - it'd feed .223 just fine, if the magazine would accept more than one round. Did they ever make a 340 in .223? I've always thought it was just Hornet, .222 and .30-30.

Oh well, there's plenty of wood in the bin, fridge is well stocked, so I guess I'll just lay about and dither some more. There's a gun show in Cambridge first week of February . . . . . . .

[1Shirt]

Can't beat Savage for the dollar. Have an older M10, and a fairly new Axis in 223. Both shoot MOA out of the box, and will handle long boolits.
1Shirt!

[Larry Gibson]

Speaking of Mini-Mausers, I was drooling over CZ's on the web last night. Mighty pretty, but the 12 twist puts me off. 'Course, I could should just pull all 300 of those 75 grainers and start over. The Mini has a 7 twist, and they shoot pretty well - for a Mini. . .

If you plan on shooting cast bullets then the 12" twist would be better than a faster twist. Pulling 300 bullets isn't that much of a problem and it's a lot less frustrating compared to trying to get a fast 9" twist .223 to shoot cast well over 1700 - 1800 fps. I actually prefer a 14" twist on bolt guns in .223 as with a 24-26" barrel it will handily stabilize all j bullets up through 55 gr and will be the cat's meow with cast bullets up through 60 grs (RN 225462 Loverins).

Larry Gibson

[john hayslip]

I just got the Mossberg varmiter and have just begun to play with it but it uses the AR-15 mags. The Varmiter has a benchrest style stock that the fellow I bought it from didn't like - he had just bought the predator version with a conventional stock and shorter barrel. If I remember correctly it has an 8 inch twist and I know it is chambered for 5.56. Note- Patrick Sweeney did a recent article comparing the 223 an 5.56 for accuracy and for all practical purposed purposes found no difference. I have both a Savage (22-250) and two Mossbergs (243 and 5.56) and slightly prefer the Mossberg trigger - though there's not much difference.

[Artful]

Then of course there's the Savage 340 (.222) in the back of the safe - it'd be easy to rebarrel. SAAMI pressure is only 1500 psi higher . . . . . Got it out last night - it'd feed .223 just fine, if the magazine would accept more than one round. Did they ever make a 340 in .223? I've always thought it was just Hornet, .222 and .30-30.

These Savage 340, 340A and Stevens 325 models were made in 30-30 Winchester, 22 Hornet, 222 Remington, 223 Remington and 225 Winchester.

[MostlyOnThePaper]

Actually, if you don't mind the 12 twist barrel and want a Remington the model 7 predator looks interesting, ad copy says 6.5 lbs. Price is a little steeper. I went there looking to see if they had a 223 version of the Mauser copy they had been making. I think I read or heard somewhere that the lock time is a little faster on the 7 than the 700. Just a thought.

Randy

[felix]

Randy, that is possibly true, but, you know what? Shooting a flinter will teach you all about lock time and patience for shooting any kind of gun, no matter what! ... felix

[MostlyOnThePaper]

Randy, that is possibly true, but, you know what? Shooting a flinter will teach you all about lock time and patience for shooting any kind of gun, no matter what! ... felix

You are definitely right about that Felix, lol. I've played that game a little bit, a lot more percussion than flint tho. Them old guys that go head to head with the percussion shooters are hard core :)

[Jailer]

The Savage Axis is a decent and accurate gun for the money. The one downfall is the recoil lug design. The recoil lug is molded into the stock and rides in a groove on the receiver. It works ok but you're limited to the factory stock. I've also found with my Axis 300 blk that it is very sensitive to where you rest it on a shooting bag. It likes to be rested way up towards the magazine under the chamber. Any farther forward and accuracy suffers quite a bit.

I'd look to the Stevens 200 in 223 if you want an accurate cheap gun.

[pietro]

I'm seriously considering creaming off the profit on mine to invest in a bolt gun that will shoot .223/5.56 ammunition. So I'm looking for recommendations.
Want something off the shelf that's light and handy enough to carry in the field, and fast twist so I can use the lot of 75 grain ammo I made up for the Mini. Ideas ?




The handiest I've found is the Savage Model 25 Classic Sporter

http://www.chuckhawks.com/savage_25_classic.jpg

Cal .223, detachable magazine, adjustable Accu-Trugger, 22" 1:9 twist bbl, 7lbs

.

[Griz44mag]

I picked up a Mossberg with the AR mag feed a few weeks ago. I got the 18.5" with the sporter style stock.
It's light enough to make a decent backpacker, shots very tight groups, and is a lot of fun.
I posted my experience with this gun here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?175200-Bolt-Rifle-That-Uses-AR-Mags

[JIMinPHX]

Is there a bolt gun that will handle 5.56 and .223?. I am aware of the issues involved in shooting 5.56 out of a .223 chambered gun. Would a bolt gun with a chamber modification such as a wilde chambering solve the problem? Can we assume that a similar fix is avialable/or not with a bolt gun that will safely function with 7.62?

I keep reading about the .223/5.56 debates, but I haven't seen anything yet to convince me that 5.56 ammo causes any real problems. I see some reliable sources talking about the two different cartridges & other reliable sources saying that they are the same. There is a lot of conflicting info out there on this subject.

I spent years shooting an older H&R that was built before they started putting the little note in the box that warns you not to shoot 5.56 ammo in it. I used M193 & the green tip stuff for years with no issues other than under-stabilization of the projectile due to the slow 1:12 twist of the barrel.

[Nrut]

The Tikka T3 lite has a 1:8 twist and will easily spin your 75 gr bullets "if" the loaded round fit's the magazine..
Their detachable mag and bolt stop can be altered to accommodate the longer OAL of the 75gr. Hornady A-Max which is my favorite long range bullet in the .22 cal. (high B.C. and fairly cheap for a 75 grainer)
The A-MAX loaded round comes out between 2.4" to 2.45"
Presently I am shooting that bullet out of my Kimber Montana with it's 1:9 twist..
Not all 1:9 twist will handle the A-Max however..

If you plan on shooting cast for the most part then I would look for a used Rem. 700 in .222 or Sako both with 1:14 twist..
From what I have been "reading on this site" the .222 in 1:14 twist will spin up to a 60gr cast bullet as they are shorter for weight than jacketed bullets and it is the length of the bullet not the weight that counts..

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have a 1 in 8" Tikka T3, loves heavy bullets, but I don't know how it would go with cast boolits. Probably badly. I have an old 788 in 222Rem for that!

[uscra112]

Man, those Tikka's are spendy, compared to the Savages.

This won't be shooting cast. I haven't the skills or the patience to cast high grade .22 boolits. Better at .30's, much better at .35s. Besides, boolits ricochet, and I do have neighbours within half a mile. Light constructed j-warts don't, (mostly). I'm sufficiently dedicated to j-warts for this rifle that I'm already embarked on making dies to swage them from .22 rimfire brass, in case this drought goes on for more than a year or so.

@ pietro : Is that Model 25 an upgraded 340? Looks similar in the photos. Single lug, split bridge? Or is it a whole different action?

The Axis has been voted off the island - synthetic stock that can't be replaced with wood. And I just know that whatever I get I'll be itching for a nice piece of wood on it within a year. I might be able to live with laminate, but plastic just leaves me cold, no matter how well it works.

Why I have never wanted, and never will own, a Black Rifle.

Mossberg: I'm seeing a number of complaints on the Web about feeding because of the magazine fit. Not that that can't be dealt with.

CZ and Savage still in it. But which Savage? Wish I could count on finding anything but empty racks at the nearest Woodbury or Cabelas, so I could see 'em close up. Long drive to either one. Gun show nearby the weekend after next. Maybe something will snag me there. I'll certainly be well edumacated by that time.

Phil

[Four Fingers of Death]

If you are going to swage your own bullets from 22cases, you might be better off with a 222. The rimfire jacketed bullets are fine, but don't like a lot of velocity as they are pretty light. I have never swaged myself, but a friend used to sell these and I tried a lot of them. They worked a treat at moderate velocities and hit hard as they were so soft. I tried some flat out in the 223 and 220Swift, just to see, a lot of them didn't make the target, blowing up somewhere downrange from the muzzle. I checked the bore each shot and good job that I did, one came apart in the bore of the 220. HaHa! Well, I had my little experiment, very smart, took a longggggggggggggggg time to get the barrel cleared of the brass and lead deposits. I pulled the rest in the Kinetic hammer.

At moderate velocities, they are great and I'd still be buying them if my mate hadn't got too old and moved to a warmer climate. The town he is in is popular with retired and elderly folk. He calls it God's waiting room.

I don't think they would be too keen on a fast twist either.

You are sort of at two ends of the spectrum here. Lightweight rimfire jacketed bullets and heavy milsurp ammo, heck,you need two rifles! Or Maybe a Savage (with a wooden stock) and a spare slow/fast twist barrel, a spanner and a set of headspace guages or a spare barrel nut and weld the suckers on.

I just thought, the Howas and the Weatherby Vanguards are real cheap, good rifles and Boyd's make excellent stocks for them for not a lot of money. We have a gunshop in one of our southern states that is selling the new Weatherbys with a boyd's laminated stock and a trigger job and they are out the door for about 2/3 the price of a Tikka or a CZ. They are a fine rifle. My son shot an incredibly small group once on my mate's HBar Howa with ammo loaded on Aussie milsurp brass. They are like bums here in Australia, everyone has one and I have never heard a bad word spoken about them.

[uscra112]

Yeah, I knew that. Been reading up on the tricks on the swaging forum. Downloaded a chunk of Richard Corbin's book and have it in the "reading room". Rimfire jackets OK under 3000 fps in 14 twist, after that you get vapor trails. Which tends to push me back toward a 12 twist and as I've already said, forget the 75 grainers. Sell 'em off to a black rifle shooter. A 12 twist should be OK to 60 grains. (I just unearthed some 60 grain Bergers I didn't know I had. Had 'em so long that the price stickers say $17.49)

Never even thought of Weatherby. I think of them as the ultra-magnum cannon people. Looked up Vanguards. 8 pounds. Lighter would be better.

[JIMinPHX]

A 12 twist should be OK to 60 grains.

50 grain & under treat me better in a 1:12 .223. The 55s are marginally stabilized in that barrel & 65 grain does not do well at all in it. I haven't tried 60-grain.

My accuracy difference between 50 & 55 grain in that barrel is significant. 40grain shoots as well as the 50s. The slightly shorter 55 grain soft points shoot a little better than 55-gr FMJ. The Greenhill formula seems to be at work here.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have had some success with the 63 Gn Sierras in a 1 in 12" twist, but they are a pretty stubby old fashioned bullet. They shot like a house on fire in my 1 in 14 1/2" twist 220Swift, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

My recently departed 1 in 12" SAKO swallowed a lot of 55Gn bulk buy Speer soft points in it's time. Never shot much paper with it, but boy, it sure dropped a lot of furry and feathered things (crows). Always meant to try the 52 and 50Gns bullets (which technically should work a whole heap better), but had thousands of 55Gn, so 55Gn it was.

[uscra112]

I'm going by what's on the Shilen web site. Not a lot of experience with H.V. 22s. Most of that from playing with my Lovells. One of them shoots 50 grains from a converted rimfire barrel (16 twist? ) just fine. Although I usually use 45 grain softpoints in it, and keep it to about 2800 fps. Only other .22 CF I do anything with is a Hornet. The .223 is a "big cartridge" to me. . . [smilie=1:

Whuddayall think of this thing? Seller says it's based in a Model 12 action, 9 twist in the barrel. Synthetic stock, and tang safety, neither of which I like, but at that price . . . . . .

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=327023752


Brain fade update - it's on a Steven 200 action - not all that different but it doesn't have the Accutrigger.....

[Fernando]

There ya go - and you can change your own barrels with out many special tools.
you can even change bolt heads and have a real switch system.
I run .223 .22BR 7-08 and 22-243 all on the same action.
You do have to remove the scope to change bbls though but it only takes about 30 min.
New bbls run in the 250-300 range.
It really is a neat system.

[Four Fingers of Death]

That's a whole lot of gun for not a lot of money.

$299 for the rifle, $250-$300 for spare barrels, I don't think I'd bother with that although it would be neat.

[uscra112]

That's a whole lot of gun for not a lot of money.

It is too cheap, isn't it? I'm almost afraid of it 'cause there might be something wrong with it that he's not telling.

Phil

[Four Fingers of Death]

They weren't much more than that new I think. They generally received good reports.

[uscra112]

They weren't much more than that new I think. They generally received good reports.

Gee, what time of night is it down there?

Anyway, I dunnit. Like you say, if I don't like it I can always change it. That barrel may be a bit short, but benchrest guys use short ones now, for the stiffness, (or so I read). Anyway it's pretty much what I need , something light and handy and accurate for around the farm here, and it shoots a common cartridge. The Lovells are fun, but they're all long and heavy, and you have to make the cases from brass that's hard to get. I tried a Contender (K-Hornet) but it didn't pan out like I thought it would - it cannot be shot offhand, so snap shots are out of the question. If this thing works out I may even sell that barrel. (I won't give up the Contender just yet - with the .357 Max barrel it is just right for deer here in Ohio.) And of course the Mini won't hit a barn from the inside on the first shot.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I think it was about 0130hrs when we spoke last time, haha! I need a tune up bad, I get on the computer and all concept of time goes out the window,hopeless!

That little rifle should go well. Once you get it sorted you can maybe concentrate on getting the Mini 14 shooting.

My mate picked up one of those Savage Stevens in 308 as a knockabout truck / hunting rifle while he was waiting for a plastic stock for his custom Mauser rifle (he didn't want to take the hand chisselled Circassian Walnut stock that started out as a $500 stock blank (Lord knows what it cost him in the end, with all of the fancy chequering, all done by a top line custom stockmaker) into the bush and crawl through the blackberries). He initially intended to take it on a hunt in Victoria where he hunts along the river flats which are generally a complete tangle of blackberries (you guys call them briars I think). It actually shoots every bit as well or better than his 30/06 custom with all the bells and whistles.

He is fascinated with it, most of his rifles are worth $5000 at least and he said this rifle really punches above it's weight. He chucked the package deal scope and mounts and fitted a low powered Leupold and lower mounts, bedded the rifle (he reckons it didn't need it, but he couldn't resist seeing how good he could get it to shoot) and played with the trigger. It is now his wet weather/rough country / farm truck rifle.

I'm trying to get him to try casting, he is pretty interested as he also shoots a lot of old English doubles and was very impressed when I pointed out that the barrels would last a lot longer if he practiced and hunted non dangerous game with lead.

[Jailer]

You'll love that gun. If I had it to do over again that's what I would have started with for my 300 blk build.

There are lots of tweaks out there for the trigger but if you can't get it where you want timney makes a nice adjustable one for it. I've got one in mine and it breaks like glass. It's so nice I need to add a little weight to it as it's a bit light for my liking right now.

[krag35]

In 1988 or so I bought a Remington 700 BDL in 223. Its a 24" medium weight sporter. I think it is a 1/14" twist, don't know, never measured it. It came with a wood stock, and later I replaced it with a factory synthetic that I glassed.
25 Years later, it has had tens of thousands of rounds through it. Everything from 40 GR "hornet" bullets to the Speer 70 gr semi spitzer, all shot very well. I have used AAC2015, AAC2520, BLC-2, 3031, 4895 (both) 4198 (both) H-335. All had their "sweet" spot and shot very well.
It's current diet is R-P case, CCI 400 primer, 24.0 gr of AAC2015, and a Speer 60gr HP. Six 10 shot groups average .826", about twice the size of what it shot, back when, or maybe it's me.
I can't begin to count the Coyotes, Deer, Antelope, Rock Chucks, Ground Squirrels,Feral Cats and Dogs I have killed with this rifle (maybe some Critters a little bigger too).
If I were in The market today for a Bolt action 223, knowing what I do, I would not hesitate to buy another just like it.

[jonk]

I have a savage 12 BVSS that with careful bullet selection, good reloading practice, and a solid bench rest will shoot sub 1" groups at 300 yards. Out of the box. Not sure many others can claim that for anywhere near the price.

[390ish]

The best I own is a CZ 527 bought right when they were first available. Likes 50 grain SXSP Hornadys and Benchmark. Only real factory rifle that was not a sniper type that I have seen display that sort of accuracy. Best I have shot was an older Sako. Held a ton of ammo for a bolt gun and simply superb.

[uscra112]

Time to wake this thread up again. At Post #41 I admitted that I'd succumbed to an impulse and committed to buy this little thing: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=327023752

After some backing and filling I finally took possession of it at my FFL today, and of course rushed right home and took it apart.

BIG plus is how easy it was to ease the (non Accu) trigger down to a nice crisp 2 lbs. After the years I've spent struggling with making the old single shots (and Krags') triggers work right, this thing is a breeze!

The magazine is worthless. Some re-engineering needed there. So far it's a single shot.

But my question for the assembled multitude of Savage experten is this: Did Savage freebore their chambers? When I make up dummy cartridges to establish the "just off the lands" seating, I find that this thing would have a full .170" of bullet jump when shooting normally loaded military (SS109) ammunition. Waaayyy longer than the Mini-14 (which I have not sold yet). This rifle had its' barrel shortened by a "world class gunsmith", and I'm wondering if he didn't "world class" the throat, too.

Got a scope mounted, and if the weather-guessers are anywhere near the truth, it may be warm enough for a short range session tomorrow. (Using ammo made up for the Mini.)

[kavemankel]

really liking the looks and reviews on the Mossberg varmiter or predator version. Did not know they were doing such rifles.
Been looking at the M10 with the heavy barrel with thread protector. @ 20 inches it seems to be the best of many worlds and I am not going to be shooting it over 500 with a .223.
Any one else have info on the Mossbergs

[uscra112]

Referring back to Post #47. Got the magazine working properly by shimming it forward as far as it will go in the well, and shimming the rear end up by about .040". So far just using business card shims. It still doesn't like feeding anything over 2.260 OAL length, though. So I'm just going to have to pretend that it's a free-bored Weatherby and let the bullet jump that .170+" to the lands, or single load.

[Screwbolts]

It is a possibility that it was chambered with a 5.56 reamer, or re throughted.

Here is a link to the difference in 223 and 5.56 chambers, this will help you and possibly other understand the differences.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55149

I very much like the 5.56 chamber over the 223. I also have a .224 Manson throating reamer that I have adjusted 223 and 22 K Hornet chambers to except the cast boolitz I prefer to shoot.

And some specs from different reamers of the threads possible chambers:

http://www.ar15barrels.com/data/223-556.pdf

[smkummer]

I have a Colt/Sako 461 rifle made in the sixties chambered in .223. Sweet little action built around a .222.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have a Colt/Sako 461 rifle made in the sixties chambered in .223. Sweet little action built around a .222.

They are a sweet rifle. I had one, 1985 built Hunter, which had a lightweight barrel and slimmer stock. It originally came in 222. My mate who bought it new had worn two barrels out and had re-chambered his last barrel in 223. It was toast by the time I bought it so I re-barrelled it, again in 223 and wore that one out. When I went to get a new barrel the gunsmith tried to sell me a No3 profile barrel, which I declined as it was too heavy as I wanted it as a light walkabout rifle. I told him exactly what I wanted, an identical profile to the original so that the wonderful balance of the rifle was not lost. I told him I was prepared to wait for it. I got a call a fortnight later saying both rifles were ready (I also gave him a 308 BRNO rifle which had a stuffed barrel). The SAKO had the No3 barrel fitted and the stock was hogged out (neatly) to take it and the wood barely came up the sides of the barrel! The BRNO was the same, wayyyy too heavy barrel fitted and another forend ruined by having a too heavy barrel fitted.

He was a good friend, but had obviously forgot everything i had said.He was going on about how well they balanced, etc. He is a shotgunner first and foremost and does excellent work, but I suppose doesn't really understand rifles. I was so stunned, I just took the rifles and headed out of his shop. I dropped the 308 off at the gunshop to sell on the way home, it was useless as far as I was concerned. The SAKO went from being my go to rifle to a safe queen, it sat in the back of the safe for three or four years. I ended up using it as a spotlighting rifle, but had lost all interest in it and sold it when a friend who is a SAKO lover wanted it for a truck rifle.

I though that I would have that rifle with my my whole life. It balanced so well and carried like a slightly larger 22! I miss that little rifle, for many years all I had in centrefire rifles was that 223 and a 3006 Interarms Mauser. I did 95% of my hunting with it.

[kweidner]

Check out the swaging section. A bunch of us are pushing rf jackets well into 3600 fps territory with no issues. My gun is a CZ550 varmint. 22-250

[Four Fingers of Death]

Check out the swaging section. A bunch of us are pushing rf jackets well into 3600 fps territory with no issues. My gun is a CZ550 varmint. 22-250


Will do, that's amazing.