Do I need a factory crimp die?

[poolecw]

I'm just starting out and am ordering the Lee Classic turret kit. I"m going to either order the 3 die set or 4 die set in .45acp. Do you recommend the 4 die set containing the factory crimp die?

[462]

No.

A properly applied taper crimp, done with a conventional taper crimp die, is all that is needed. Billions of .45 ACP rounds were loaded, chambered, and fired long before Mr. Lee came up with a new marketing idea.

[somedude101]

What is he price difference between the two? You may decide you want one in the future and can't find one. when it comes to things like this I say it is better to have and not want than to need and not have.

[o6Patient]

The principle of the factory crimp dies is very sound, and for the price, very good value.

[Jack Stanley]

Do you need it ... no , but might it be handy when you start fooling around with little things in your ammo production ... yes . I don't have one in a handgun caliber but I do have a couple in rifle calibers that get used ..... sometimes .

Jack

[gunoil]

what caliber are you using?

do you want a bullet feeder? That takes up one hole!
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/1CB8C2B9-2E41-49E4-A8BA-001F226175F5-740-0000024A6F342472.mp4

Buy the two riser's and swivel adapter on powder measure. Take a #2 pencil to every surface that comes in contact with powder,, every surface, metal or plastic. I load 9's and 380's on my lee CCTP, and 45's and 40's on my LLM.

Revolver shooters say they like FCD.

I have a FCD for 45acp, i can get by without it.

I use seat/crimp die because i use bullet feeders.

U BETTER BUY "4HOLE" CLASSIC CAST TURRET PRESS, THE NEW ONE.

If you want best service and price and mailing/shipping call dennis @ titanreloading.com .. His store is down the street from lee and he was a engineer at lee factory. Plus he always answers the phone and ?'s correctly for you.

Buy that lee metal base mount kit you see in photo. The ejector that kicks finished rnd in bucket is on youtube for 17$.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/82BBD44E-3184-4C13-8959-CDFD7BDD3A6E-239-000001FADC03EFB2.jpg

[gefiltephish]

Do a search here for FCD. This has been discussed endlessly. The rifle and pistol fcd's are two completely different animals (exception being the ranchdog collet types for pistol). The rifle fcd works great, while many of us feel the pistol fcd does more harm than good for cast bullets. For cast, I suggest as post #2 above, you get the 3 die set and the Lee (or other) taper crimp die. The Lee taper crimp die works well and is quite inexpensive (it's the fcd without the carbide ring). If you're just doing jacketed, the fcd seems to do no harm.

BTW, I really like my LCT and I'm not a Lee fan, I'm sure you'll be pleased with it.

[poolecw]

Thanks guys. I ordered both the classic turret kit, as well as the 3 die set. The FCD is xgeap if i find that i need it.

[MtGun44]

RUN away from the pistol type FCD. Use an ordinary taper crimp die to TC as
a separate operation.

Rifle type FCD is entirely different animal, a wonderful device. Pistol FCD is a
solution looking for a problem and often CAUSING problems.

Bill

[engineer401]

Pistol FCD is a
solution looking for a problem and often CAUSING problems.

Bill

That has been my experience. I use Dillon crimping dies almost exclusively. Some Lee products work for others. As suggested by others, a regular taper crimp die of most any brand will serve your purpose.

[A pause for the COZ]

I do not use any FCD for any cast bullet pistol loads. All the LEE pistol FCD's have a carbides post sizing ring. These will catch any cast bullets and resize them smaller. Defeats the purpose of having your cast loads one thousandths over groove diameter.
Ranch Dog sells a LEE FCD callet die for .357 that I do use though.

[mdi]

No.

A properly applied taper crimp, done with a conventional taper crimp die, is all that is needed. Billions of .45 ACP rounds were loaded, chambered, and fired long before Mr. Lee came up with a new marketing idea.

My feelings exactly! Learn to adjust your dies and reload properly and you'll never need a "post seating sizing die"...

[o6Patient]

No.

A properly applied taper crimp, done with a conventional taper crimp die, is all that is needed. Billions of .45 ACP rounds were loaded, chambered, and fired long before Mr. Lee came up with a new marketing idea.

That's what I would say although, while I like the factory crimp die - you certainly don't need it.

[Dave C.]

no!
no!
No!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I was using a LEE factory crimp die on 45acp, because it had helped - ???? - in loading some .40 S&W, but after using the one on the .45, I had to go back and cut the lead away from the case mouth with almost every one of some hundreds of loaded cases.

I suspect that I didn't have the standard .40S&W dies properly adjusted to begin with.

I 100% agree with the "NO" above, and solidly stand with the statement that in almost all cases, a properly adjust set of dies will do everything needed to load quality handgun and YES!!!!!!! rifle ammo. Forget the Lee FCD if at all possible.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[kweidner]

No. I use rcbs with their taper. Works fine. Barely run a crimp unless magnums.

[FLHTC]

I do use the factory crime die in a few caliber and why i like them so much is because my case lengths can vary a few thousands and i still get a consistent crimp. The straight walled cases that don't get a roll crimp will not benefit from the FCD but many others do in my opinion.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Interesting.

However, I crimp little to nothing in rifle cartridges, my 45/70 with cast boolits being the one exception.

Since the 60s when I started reloading, I have never seen a need for crimping anything other then my handgun ammo.

Of course, I do not hand load for a lever action or other tube mag type weapon.

With my 45/70, there is no need for a crimp, it being a RUGER #1 and single shot, other then it seems to shoot better with a bit of a crimp.

For most rifles, there is little or nothing to be gained with crimping unless possibly your neck expander button is over size which would cause poor neck fit to the bullets.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[wantoutofca]

As stated above don't use the pistol style on cast boolits as they will resize the boolit itself. I have a rifle style 44mag die and like it very much, plus I don't have to readjust my seating die for crimping.

[Bonz]

I currently own a Lyman T-Mag II turret press and use Lee 4-die sets for pistol reloading. I'm a firm believer in the the "Factory Crimp" die and use it for every round I load... I also use the Redding Carbide resizing die on .40 S&W to "de-glock" the cases. Love Glock and hate to say de-glock when there are certainly other handguns out there that do not fully support the .40 S&W case and allow them to "belly" when fired.

I average about 50 completed rounds per hour, which includes everything from start to finish. I even clean the primer pockets and re-prime by hand.

I just upgraded to wet tumble case cleaning instead of dry vibratory case cleaning. This gives better results and even cleans inside the primer pockets. I started with a 15 pound wet tumbler and shipped it back because it was definately not "heavy duty" and could only clean about 200 .40 S&W per load which runs for 3 - 4 hours. I am currently waiting for the 40 pound wet tumbler that I just purchased and awaiting Fedex delivery. The 40 pound wet tumbler should clean about 2000 .40 S&W per load.

I also just ordered the Hornady Lock-N-Load AP progressive press which should give me the ability to complete about 200 rounds per hour.

When my wife and I go to the shooting range, we burn through from 350 to 500 rounds of ammo. That takes me anywhere from 7 to 10 hours to reload everything we fired for that one trip.

I think I will always need 2 presses. Just can't see swaging bullets or processing cases on the progressive press. Also just purchased the EGW undersizing dies to clean up the stretched cases for my 9mm and 45acp and really can't see using those on the progressive press but I will certainly try. Brass is getting more expensive all the time and I'm doing everything I can to use every piece of brass I get my hands on.

Hopefully Poolecw, this info will help you out on some future decision making. All though, I'm sure that a lot of people will disagree with what I just posted...

[jmort]

Some semi-autos will benefit from the FCD and will function better with its proper use. It makes sense on serious revolver loads. If used right, it is worthwhile. Just don't use it to mask a problem that could have been avoided in the first place.

[W.R.Buchanan]

You will find out eventually that some manufacters tools work good for some things and not as good for others. And then other brands will fill the voids.

I have several different crimping dies for .44's and .45's and .40's, all have thier uses. No one manufacturer has everything you might need, and none of them have 100% good products.

Randy

[o6Patient]

A cartridge like the 45 acp that if I'm not mistaken, head spaces off the case mouth would be
the worst application for the factory crimp die. A modest tapered crimp would be far better IMHO.

[13Echo]

I use the Lee FCD for my 45 ACP. It applies a taper crimp, not a roll crimp, it can be adusted to apply just the amount of crimp needed, and it makes certain no case is too large in diameter to chamber. I think it helps produce more reliable ammuntiion for the autopistol. I do not use a FCD for most revolver loads that use cast bullets as the FCD will often resize the case and reduce the bullet diameter. This is particularly noticable in 45 Colt where my revolvers like a somewhat fat bullet.

Like any tool it has its uses and it isn't a universal solution.

Jerry Liles

[r1kk1]

I don't use any pistol FCDs. I guess these came out in the 80s or 90s. I've use taper, roll or none depending on application.

I can comment on Redding profile crimp dies as these work really well. I will try one in the truly big bore revolver like the Redhawk in 480. I will comment later when I do. They work great in 44 mag.

Take care

r1kk1

[MtGun44]

FCD does NOTHING that a properly made set of reloading dies, properly used will not already do.
This is marketing hype. Taper crimp with a taper crimp die, which avoids doing damage to your
ammo and only HELPS, not hurts.

It WILL size down oversized boolits in the case and can cause serious problems. I have never seen a
cartridge loaded with anything like a normal boolit that needed any "post sizing" to chamber. I seriously
doubt that this need actually exists, unless there is a seriously out of tolerance (too tight) chamber and
a seriously out of tolerance resizer die (too large) - both are very rare problems.

I have asked repeatedly for someone to explain what real problem a pistol FCD has corrected for them
that they could not get with regular dies. So far no answers. The GUESS above is purely speculative,
I would guess it may have happened at some time, but I have never seen it myself in many years with
many pistols in many calibers and many many rounds loaded.

Those that use the pistol FCD, please tell me of an actual problem that it has solved. We know
of many problems that it has caused, reported here fairly often.

Bill

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Bill, That should about wrap it up, but clearly not so.

Guess we can look at it this way, Lee does employ some workers - that's good - and I sure don't and mostly don't, need to buy many of their products That is also good, as in very good.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot.

[DeanWinchester]

I use one on all my cast 9mm loads. I only use FC brass for my cast loads. Reason being, if I put an unsized bullet in an FC case and run it through my FCD, then pull that bullet it measures .356. Perfect for my Lone Wolf barrel.

Also, many once fired cases are fired from loose chambers and the base will swell a bit. NOT the dreaded bulge mind you though. The FCD will iron that out.

If you have the sense and foresight to test loaded rounds, looking for any sizing down of the bullet, the FCD is a great tool. If you just blindly shove a cast load through one, you deserve the results you get.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Bill: what an FCD with the sizing ring is good for is finding cases that make it thru the process but have not been sized at all.

As I'm sure you know, it is possible to miss sizing a case(especially if they are done on a single stage press) and it is also possible for that case to get charged and a bullet seated and crimped.

It is mostly and "idiot proofing" mechinism.

With the crimper removed they also work well for debulging .40S&W cases which I do on a regular basis, and they are alot cheaper than the Redding die made for this. IE: $10 vs $65.

Are these things one could live without,,, Sure. But you can make better ammo with the appropriate usage of more tools.

Randy

[jmort]

This on-going argument ignores that fact that many, many FCD users are getting absolute reliability with their semi-auto handguns, and without the FCD, not so much. I pulled a single example, for the .45 ACP FCD off Midway USA, and the FCD got 44 5/5 stars owner reviews, 1 4/5 stars and 1 3/5 stars. As close to perfect as a product gets. I'm not going to spend more time linking the 9mm FCD or the .40 FCD etc., but they are great as well. FCD will not replace good practices, but will ensure proper function and reliability if used properly. Reading the reviews tells prospective users that the FCD is a very good thing, especially if you want optimum reliability in a semi-auto hangun. The whining about the FCD comes from a lack of understanding that uniformity is a good thing, and the FCD moves us in the right direction, again, if used properly.
It is a myth that only the rifle collet FCD are worthwhile.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/716704/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-45-acp-45-auto-rim

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

However, that does not bring a solution to the problems I listed on a earlier post, that took weeks to iron out. FCD problem!!!!!!

Tread lightly with them and only buy them if you have a proven problem that can not be corrected with proper adjustment of your three die set.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot