New Reloader: Help with reduced recoil 12ga 00 and slug loads

[Geoffrey]

So you guys were right. After only a month of modifying shells I picked up a reloading press.

I picked up an MEC Sizemaster.

I am currently casting my own soft 1oz Lee slugs and will be casting my own buckshot from wheel weights.

I hope to have as few components on hand as possible, I have a few questions:

1) Is there a cup/wad that can be used for both Lee 1oz slugs and buckshot?

2) I have read about using slightly undersized OO buck in a standard cup, which Lee mold would that be?

3) I want to load reduced recoil loads for both slug and buck, where can I find data on reduced recoil loads?

Here is where things get a little trickier. I have a much more limited component source compared to the US.

I have on hand material for slugs/buck

Locally the only range pickup hull I can find worth reloading are Remington Gun Clubs.

Locally the powder carried is Alliant and locally primers are CCI 209 shotgun

Wads/Cups are pretty much just Winchester with a few Remington

I have searched online and in a few manuals but I can't find reduced recoil published data.

Can you guys help me find published data and let me know which Lee mold I need for Buckshot so it fits in a standard cup/wad that can also be used with Lee 1oz slugs

Thanks

Any you all were right... Was only time until I got a press. I think I held out a full month almost. ;)

[LUBEDUDE]

I don't load a ton of slugs and buckshot. Just about 75-100 of each a year. So I just use whatever wads I have on hand. I trim the petals for the slugs because I use a fold over crimp. And the Buckshot that I weigh out works just right for the wads on hand as well.

I cast my own slugs and buckshot too.

Maybe I'm lucky, I don't know. But the shells work great.

As far as finding reduced loads try the link below, they have researched shotshells to death, and have lots of data and manuals for sale.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

Good Luck

[Geoffrey]

I have read a lot of manuals, I have searched extensively, I cannot find published data for reduced recoil buckshot and slug loads.

I have Reloading for Shotgunners 5th edition for shotguns that has a little info and the buckshot book by BPI. Neither show anything for reduced recoil. I have several other books too with absolutely no buck/slug data.

I'm not building hunting ammo just training ammo.

Can anyone point me to a specific book/manual or provide solid data on reduced recoil loads?

I'm waiting on a recipe before I order my powder, primer, and wads. Pretty well stuck using CCI209M as that's what's locally available.

Any ideas?

[longbow]

If you want reduced recoil loads, a good place to start is by using standard shot loads of equal weight. If you replace shot with the Lee slug pressure will be lower with a slug due to less bore friction. These will be about 1200 FPS loads. With faster burning shotgun powders you should be able to drop the charge a little without fear of bloopers as well.

BPI may have bulletins with reduced recoil loads or "English" light loads too for 2 1/2" hulls just add some card wads to make up the space.

Also, here is some info on loads with a reduced recoil load for the SPW slugs:

http://slugsrus.com/store/product28.html

As long as a large volume straight walled hull is used and the payload is the same or less weight, with such a light load you will be fine. Just a thought.

matching components up can be a pain. I live in a reloading component dessert so have learned to make do.

Longbow

[Geoffrey]

Thanks longbow.

Yeah reloading components in Canada can be a pain eh!

I have an email into Alliant powders asking them for load data. I have scoured every book I can find for reduced recoil loads.

What I HOPE to be able to do is find load data that can use one powder, primer, and wad for both 00 buck and slugs. I think I will need to use some cards to raise the slug up so it will get a good crimp.

Theoretical load workup so far, with no data yet, Remington Gun Club hulls ( have lots ), CCI209M ( available locally ), WAA12F114 wad/cup, cast Lee 1oz slugs and cast wheel weight buckshot.

I hope to be able to use the same hulls, primer, and cup/wad for both buck and slug. I suspect I will need to raise the slugs up if I use the same wad.

Thoughts on this?

[bbs383ci]

X2 on longbow, find a load running about 1050 or less I've seen some for around 950 just use buckshot instead.

By using the same wad for both it would seem to me that you would have to use spacers under the slug to get the crimp right

[Geoffrey]

Hey longbow, just noticed where you live. I worked for Telus as a contractor out of Rossland BC. That entire part of BC is beautiful.

[longbow]

Yes it is!

I had to move up north after being laid off at Cominco in 1986 during some bad economic times. I spent about two years in Kemano just south of Kitimat then moved to Yellowknife, NWT for about two year then got an opportunity to come back to the Kootenays. I have been here ever since.

Well, back to shotshell recipes!

Yeah, I was trying to do the same thing and wound up buying a bunch of Fiocchi hulls for slugs and buckshot. I don't shoot much buckshot but do slugs... or was anyway. I have been having trouble fitting everything into the time I have and lately I have been working on cast boolit loads for .303 British. Just recently I did load up a variety of slugs and round balls for testing. As soon as it warms up a bit I will head to the range.

So, on the note of Fiocchi hulls, there actually aren't a lot of published slug and buckshot recipes for them! They are a straight walled large volume hull though so I cross reference and compare. I do have some Fiocchi specific recipes for slugs but I often base loads off similar hulls and use those components. In fact several published sources just say to use any straight walled hull.

What I did a few years ago is to order in a whole whack of various sizes and types of plastic wads, nitro card wads, hard card wads, fiber wads and the Fiocchi hulls all at once. I got everything from Bismuth Shot Reloading who is (was?) a BPI rep in Alberta around Edmonton I think. The fellow was very helpful and had everything I needed. Not sure if he is still in business or not. I am still using up some of the stuff I bought.

Hah! I figured I am sitting here at the computer so I would look and yes he is still in business:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/bpi/retailers/Canada/canada.htm

I want to get hold of a bunch of hulls so I will contact Will to see what he has.

As for powders, I tend to use a lot of Blue Dot for slug loads and have had very good results with it. I was told by a very experienced slug shooter that SR4756 is a better choice so a while ago I order two pounds to try. It is what is under my current slug loads yet to be shot.

Unique is a pretty good all round powder too though limited use for high velocity slug and buck loads. Or at least heavy payloads, it is not bad with 1 oz. slugs. It can be used for 1 oz to 1 1/8 oz slug loads at pretty zippy velocities and is useful for shot loads too and cast boolit shooting so very versatile.

Green Dot is another useful powder too. It is good for trap loads and I have several listings for slug loads. I don't think any for buckshot though again. an equivalent weight shot load recipe would do but the wad column would most likely have to be replaced and it wouldn't be a heavy buckshot load as green Dot is pretty fast powder. Good for moderate or reduced velocity loads though.

I am sure there are other good powders but these are what I can get fairly easily. Also, they are multi purpose which I like. If I had to choose just a couple of powders for most of what I shoot it would be Unique and Blue Dot.

Longbow

[Geoffrey]

Thanks longbow

I am doing more reading on Unique, Blue Dot, and Green Dot.

Would green dot work better in Gun Club with a shorter wad ( WAA12 ) and 8 pellet?

Trying to pick one powder to do both low recoil buck and slug.

SO much data to try and take in and understand.

Thanks for your help

[Geoffrey]

From reading Alliant powder data I really like the idea of Green Dot in Gun Club Hulls with WAA12, DRA12 or DR XL1 1/8 wads and CCI 209M primers.

All these parts are available locally.

I read that the WAA12 and Gun Club won't allow 9 OO to fit or 8 OO because it will only carry 3 layers so I cannot do a 4 layer of 2 OO.

[dverna]

If you fellows are looking for a straight wall hull the Federal line may be worth looking at. I have a few thousand Gold Medal (all plastic) hulls and also load the Top Gun (paper base wad). I only load thee Top Gun hull once as it has a steel head and paper base wad. They would be a less expensive option over buying new Fiocchi's. I you need any PM me.

[USSR]

...let me know which Lee mold I need for Buckshot so it fits in a standard cup/wad that can also be used with Lee 1oz slugs

I have the Lee .319" round ball mould, and 3 layers of 3 just barely fits in a WAA12 wad with the petals on. I load it with 28gr of Unique, and it is a very mild buckshot load.

Don

[Geoffrey]

Thanks all.

For powder I chose to go with Green Dot, I want low recoil and the powder bushings that came with my press line up with two different green dot loads so I can try two charges until I get more bushings.

I am getting ready to order Green Dot powder, CCI 209M primers, and true Win WAA12 wads.

I will also use a nitro card of some form.

Now to research how to make my own Nitro Cards.

Thanks again everyone.

[JIMinPHX]

My trials & tribulations with reduced recoil 12 ga slugs can be found here -
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?86712-moderate-load-data-for-Lee-slugs

I can't seem to find my post about reduced recoil buckshot. I think that I was loading 8 pieces of 00 buck in a shotcup over Green Dot, but I need to find my notes.

[JIMinPHX]

My reduced recoil buckshot recipe can be found in post #6 here - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?116669-Lee-buckshot-mold-Experiences-ect

The search function here on the board didn't find this thread, but an advanced Google search did.

[Geoffrey]

Thank you.

I picked up 3 pounds of Green Dot last night.

I'll get my CCI209M primers Monday. Then order my Win WAA12 wads.

My press came with 3 powder bushings. 17.7, 18.3, and 19.6.

All 3 fall in the Alliant data safe range and from what I've read here.

I think I'll try some of each and see what performs best out of my gun. It's a 14" barrel so I'm not sure which will be best.

I'll keep ya posted.

Is 17.7 too low for a slug?

[JIMinPHX]

14" barrel on a shotgun??? I hope that either that is a typo or else you have the proper class III documentation on that weapon. Normally a shotgun barrel should be over 18".

[Geoffrey]

That is one of the odd benefits of living in Canada. With manual action firearms you can go as short as 26" overall... Same with rimfire.

My shotgun is non restricted here and is a wild little shotgun. :)

[JIMinPHX]

Sorry for being nervous nelly.

[gotin]

win209, 16-17 grains of 700x and pink (1 oz) Claybuster wads pushes 1 oz Lee slug at around 1100 ft/s , very mild recoil.
win209, 16-17 grains of 700x and the 1 1/8 Claybuster wad with cut petals pushes 9 OO Lee pellets to the same speed, and again very mild recoil.

[ToysRUs]

I just documented my low recoil stuff in this thread today.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?180653-Lee-1oz-Slug-Mold-from-wheel-weights

[Geoffrey]

Thanks for the help so far all.

Much appreciated.

[DODGEM250]

So you guys were right. After only a month of modifying shells I picked up a reloading press.
( That was inevitable )


I hope to have as few components on hand as possible <------- That was hilarious



You'll never have as little as possible...

[longbow]

Hah! I started out with the same goal of minimizing what I needed but now I have shelves of powder and boxes of various wads, hulls, tools, moulds... all sorts of stuff and I am still attempting to "...have as few components on hand as possible" that is hilarious! I don't think it works that way.

[ToysRUs]

Hah! I started out with the same goal of minimizing what I needed but now I have shelves of powder and boxes of various wads, hulls, tools, moulds... all sorts of stuff and I am still attempting to "...have as few components on hand as possible" that is hilarious! I don't think it works that way.

Sure LB,
Mention all the shotgun stuff.
Guess what happens when you load rifle and pistol also!!!!!
Multiply by a factor of 5!

[longbow]

Don't have the handguns but do load for rifles as well. I know just what you mean!

I have 5 round ball moulds for 12 ga. and 4 or 5 slug moulds as well, a buckshot mould... and I am thinking about a shotmaker!

Then for the rifles I decided to limit calibers so now I am loading for only .308, .44 mag and .303 British. In my attempt to minimize stuff I now have 4 Lee Enfields and have multiple moulds in each caliber with the most in .303.

As for shotguns, I currently have 6. I don't know what's wrong with me!

The stuff just seems to multiply on its own! I don't even remember buying most of it.

I would go with a larger factor than 5!

Longbow

[JIMinPHX]

I actually have been streamlining & minimizing lately. I have a rule, where if a gun doesn't get shot for 3 years, then it gets sold unless I have a specific reason to keep it. When all the guns in a particular caliber are gone, then the loading equipment in that caliber goes too. I'm down to less than half of what I used to have. Now that prices have gone crazy with all the gun ban fear, it's a great time to be selling rather than buying.

[castrookie]

hi longbow i see you said to use shot of the same weight for slugs my question is i am looking to load buck and ball can i use the shot data to load something like this what i found is this but the data is for shot what you think and is it ok

Remington hull sts
win 209
bluedot 31.5 grains this is reduced 10% from 35.0 grains
and wad is rem sp12 will be replacing wad with a tps wad from ballistic products
the weight is 1 3/8 ounce

thanks hope you can help me have a nice day.

[longbow]

I have not loaded for STS hulls and not sure of construction offhand but if the data you list is for buckshot in STS hull then subbing equal weight of buck and ball should be fine.

If for birdshot, I'd be cross referencing with buckshot loads to be sure. I think buckshot loads develop more bore friction than birdshot loads due to jamming of the balls.

I'd feel safe basing buck and ball loads off buckshot load data but not so much for birdshot data without doing some cross referencing of data for birdshot, slugs, buckshot.

I have not loaded buckshot nor buck and ball so no personal experience there and no "pet loads".

The equal weight sub rule is for slugs to replace birdshot based on the fact that slugs have less bore friction than birdshot so are safe to substitute for birdshot. I am not sure that holds true for buckshot.

Also, both buckshot and Tri-Ball loads recommend hard shot/balls to avoid distortion and jamming across the bore so keep that in mind. I think soft lead would be a bad thing.

There are some threads here on buck and ball if you haven't seen them. It would be a good thing to take a look as someone may have listed some load data or determined how to develop load data from existing loads.

Sorry, not a lot of help.

Longbow

[castrookie]

Thanks for the help it's a start to the right direction

[MT Chambers]

For GUNCLUBS you can use STS data, plenty of 1 oz. trap load data at 980 fps using TGT 12 wad and could use for 1oz. slug.