Single Stage verses Turret Press Question?

[o6Patient]

I have always used a single stage press set up and have not in the past loaded enough
volume in my mind to justify the cost of a good progressive set up. (Yet)
I do every once in a while think I might be missing something not having a turret press.
I have in the past resisted and let the urge pass but recently it has come back again.

Is there any real advantage a turret press has over a single stage press other than die set
up time which isn't much for me because I've always created a "dummie " round set up for
each and every bullet combination I load for.? What if anything am I missing? (thanks)[smilie=f:

[13Echo]

If you are loading for pistol which requires multiple die changes a good turret will make a differenc. For rifle with only one or two dies, not so much.

If you want to try you might find the Lee four station turret suitable. It isn't very expensive, it is easy to store the dies in their own turret, already set up and ready to use as soon as you put it in the press and you can have a separate turret for each cartridge you reload. The auto advance is a time saver when loading a lot of rounds. The press is perfectly adequate for pistol and most rifle.

I still use an old three station Lee for most pistol but stick to the Redding T7 for black powder rifle and the Lee Classic or RCBS single stage for everyting else. I bought the Lee turret many years ago thinking I'd upgrade someday. So far the little press works so well I haven't felt the need.

Jerry Liles

[BruceB]

A 4-station turret works very well for rifle loads as well.

Station 1 - size/de-prime/re-prime

Station 2 - flare/expand case mouth and neck (for CAST bullets)

Station 3 - powder measure, mounted right in the turret

Station 4- seat bullet

When loading cast bullets for rifle cartridges, the operations are obviously very similar to loading cast bullets for handguns.

[jmort]

As mentioned, it is real nice to store your dies pre-set in turret. On the Lee Precision Classic Turret, you can swap-out calibers/turrets in 30 seconds. I use mine in single stage mode. I hand prime and use powder dippers. Very simple system.

[doulos]

The speed difference for a properly set up single stage and turret isnt that great. A single stage press with dies set up in Hornady Lock N Load die bushings is almost as fast as a turret. I have a RCBS Rockchucker set up that way and I can reload almost as fast as I could on my Lyman turret. To really increase speed I went to a Dillon 550B

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=doulos;2012250]The speed difference for a properly set up single stage and turret isnt that great."

It really depends on how one USES the turret.

For my routine on the All-American, the case is placed in the shellholder and IS NOT REMOVED until completely loaded. I turn the turret from station to station to accomplish this.

There is NO time lost to handling cases over and over again before they're finally loaded. Many people will process all the brass through one step, such as sizing, and only then turn the turret to begin mouth-flaring all the brass, and only then move the turret for powder charging (if they even do the charging in the press)) and so on. All this unnecessary case-handling eats up time and does nothing to improve the ammunition. Use the turret press AS A TURRET, not just a place to store dies.

This is MUCH faster than a single-stage press; I started on a single 47 years ago, and believe me, I know. I still use a single, and a turret, and a progressive...they all have their uses but for routine loading the turret really shines.

[march41]

Try a forster co-ax it is one of the fastest single stages out their,love mine for bpcr cals.

[LUBEDUDE]

[QUOTE=doulos;2012250]The speed difference for a properly set up single stage and turret isnt that great."

It really depends on how one USES the turret.

For my routine on the All-American, the case is placed in the shellholder and IS NOT REMOVED until completely loaded. I turn the turret from station to station to accomplish this.

There is NO time lost to handling cases over and over again before they're finally loaded. Many people will process all the brass through one step, such as sizing, and only then turn the turret to begin mouth-flaring all the brass, and only then move the turret for powder charging (if they even do the charging in the press)) and so on. All this unnecessary case-handling eats up time and does nothing to improve the ammunition. Use the turret press AS A TURRET, not just a place to store dies.

This is MUCH faster than a single-stage press; I started on a single 47 years ago, and believe me, I know. I still use a single, and a turret, and a progressive...they all have their uses but for routine loading the turret really shines.

+1 I'm with Bruce

i didn't play with Blocks much as kid and sure don't now.

[doulos]

You could be right Bruce. Been a long time since i used it. I'll have to reset up my turret and try again. I hated priming on it. I never got a good feel for it. So I went to sizing and depriming and removing the case and hand priming. I ended up using my single stage more until I got a progressive. I actually have better feel for priming with my Dillion. I actually used my turret more for loading BPCR than anything. And I would remove the case anyway to pour powder from a drop tube.
I'll have to revisit it but i still dont think I'll be that much faster.
The All American you mention is that a old Lyman?

[LUBEDUDE]

Lyman All American

[MT Chambers]

Try a forster co-ax it is one of the fastest single stages out their,love mine for bpcr cals.
The Co-ax is the fastest for die changes and no turrets to buy, preset dies just slip in, no fuss, no shellholders to change, and the most precision of all.

[drklynoon]

I use my Turret as a two stage press. By that I mean to say I handle each piece of brass three times. First I size deprime and case expand. Then I remove the case. I do this for every piece. Then I use a hand prime for all pieces. Then I dump powder from my press and seat a boolit then the case is put in a casegaurd. This method does not eliminate as much of the brass handling as the previous poster but is none the less become my method due to not liking the Lyman prime system on my press. This method is much faster than running a single stage but it does all come down to your individual taste.

[dragon813gt]

The speed difference for a properly set up single stage and turret isnt that great. A single stage press with dies set up in Hornady Lock N Load die bushings is almost as fast as a turret. I have a RCBS Rockchucker set up that way and I can reload almost as fast as I could on my Lyman turret. To really increase speed I went to a Dillon 550B

You are mentioning a non auto indexing turret in your comparison. There is definitely a speed increase when using the Lee Turrets. It's the only press I use anymore. But my volume requirements aren't as high as others.

[dragonrider]

In turrets vs single stage, the turret is faster. Like Bruce I have a Lyman AA and of the several turrets I have had in the past the AA is by far the best. It is the one I turn to most often.

[walltube]

o6Patient,
As stated, Forster's Co-Ax is fastest of all of single stage presses given its quick-die-change feature. And of course, IMHO, the most accurate. This machine is my go-to for neck-size only, mil-surp bolt rifle (Enfields mostly), ammo production. Priming is a separate operation. Powder is dispensed with a PACT dispensor; not as quick as a mechanical measure, but less troublesome with stick propellents. I am in no hurry here.

The Lyman T-MagII, when employed as BruceB says, will by far complete more rounds per stroke than the Co-Ax. After all, that is the intended design concept of a turret press: quantity! A marvelous thing when first introduced. This press makes rounds for my straight wall revolver stuff and Rem 700 rifles.

A bit off topic, but perhaps relevant here:
the Hornady Pro7 on my bench is a different specie that rolls out .9mm Para and 45ACP in much greater numbers than the Lyman T-Mag II. Auto loading pistols are a hungry lot..;-)

There Ya go, o6Patient.
Regards,
Wt.

[zuke]

My next press will be a LEE Classic Turret

[Bonz]

Currently own a Lyman T-Mag II turret press. I just load pistol ammo but I really thought the turret press would be all I need. Obviously a huge improvement over the single stage press where you have to load in stages because of die changes. Still takes me about an hour to load a box of ammo from start to finish.

I now have a Hornady LNL progressive on backorder and will be using my turret press for case prep and swaging only.

But you never know, may not be the press, maybe I just shoot too much...

[doulos]

Currently own a Lyman T-Mag II turret press. I just load pistol ammo but I really thought the turret press would be all I need. Obviously a huge improvement over the single stage press where you have to load in stages because of die changes. Still takes me about an hour to load a box of ammo from start to finish.

I now have a Hornady LNL progressive on backorder and will be using my turret press for case prep and swaging only.

But you never know, may not be the press, maybe I just shoot too much...

Boy those Hornady progressives are hard to find and have been for a while. I think you'll like loading on a progressive for your pistol rounds. I love using my Dillon 550B. Watch how much more you shoot when you can crank out the ammo quickly.

[bobthenailer]

I have a Posness Warren P200 turret press, with a semi auto primer feed, Dillon auto powder measure , TC dies i am able to load between 200 to 250 pistol rounds per hour. I now use it for less loaded cartages that it would be too expensive to set up the Dillon for. such as 32 acp, 30 carbine and recently 45 LC

With a single stage press with TC dies i was able to load 100 pistol rounds per hour, max.

I also have a Dillon 550 , with it i usually load between 400 to 450 pistol rounds per hour . Im not trying to beat any records when loading , as i really enjoy it, Im just trying to make good Quality ammo at a pace thats comfortable to me .

IT really depends on how many rounds you shoot verses amount of free time avalible to load ammo , Or if you just got to have it ! I have had single stage press for 50+ years, the P&W for possibley 35 years and i bought my first Dillon when the 450 came out and have upgraded to a 550B when they came out.

[r1kk1]

Hey that p200 is my 375 converted to metallic use. 10 stations on that bad boy. Could you do the 445 supermag on it?

Take care

r1kk1

[Swede44mag]

Try a forster co-ax it is one of the fastest single stages out their,love mine for bpcr cals.

2nd on the forster co-ax I use it for all of my rifle cartridges.
Being able to snap dies in and out makes it faster than my RCBS Rockchucker.

I also have 2 Dillion 550B presses one for large primers another for small primers.

[Bonz]

I clean primer pockets and prime cases by hand. I also weigh every charge on a RCBS 1010. Have to be careful, wife shoots my reloads, lol

Hope to average about 200 rounds per hour with the Hornady progressive without changing case prep or charging. Also hoping that the progressive press will be more consistent. The OAL goes up and down on the turret press. I recently noticed that my .40 turret head appears to be a little warped. Possibly from the added stress of de-glocking the .40 cases.

[bobthenailer]

Hey that p200 is my 375 converted to metallic use. 10 stations on that bad boy. Could you do the 445 supermag on it?

Take care

r1kk1

Im not sure but i loaded 44 mag on it for years! i belive that the working area would be ok ?
In the past i have loaded 223 and 308 with the P&W but the brass was first sized with my single stage press ! so i really only seated the primer, dropped the powder charge and seated & taper crimped the bullet with it.

[sundog]

For handgun cartridges I size/deprime on a single stage, inspect, clean primer pocket as necessary, and store for future use or if loading right away put them in a tub. Then, when ready to load, I hand prime. Loading is done on a 3-hole Lee turret; powder charge/bell with a powder thru die, seat boolit, crimp. This process works very well for me for amount of ammo I use.

[1616s16]

I have a lee 4 holer works just like the old 2 holer that was out back

bl

[o6Patient]

For handgun cartridges I size/deprime on a single stage, inspect, clean primer pocket as necessary, and store for future use or if loading right away put them in a tub. Then, when ready to load, I hand prime. Loading is done on a 3-hole Lee turret; powder charge/bell with a powder thru die, seat boolit, crimp. This process works very well for me for amount of ammo I use.

If I had a turret press this approach would be the one that I would probably employ, and as BruceB
has indicated the time saving would be in not handling the brass quite so many times. It's also been
stated that you would produce more ammo per stroke in another post.. ?I don't see that a turret would
create more ammo per handle stroke? A progressive definitely yes. (that isn't the question)Die
changes are not an issue with me whether using the co-ax or any other single stage for that
matter, I have dummie rounds for everything I load so you' re talking the time it takes to screw the
die. A turret obviously would make this a bit more convenient for sure if the dies were
already in a turret head. Good conversation. Maybe I need to take a look at a progressive.[smilie=1:

[BruceB]

By way of comparing production rates with others on this this thread:

Using the All-American and LOADING EACH CASE TO COMPLETION before taking it out of the press, I usually load around 200 handgun rounds per hour.... without a lot of rushing or scurrying around.

I've never bothered timing runs on the Dillon 550, but it's a lot higher-production than the turret.

[walltube]

Your most recent post tells me you have not, perhaps, had much experience with a turret press?

BruceB says it all with "the case is not removed" and "each case to completion".

The turret is a different philosophy. On occasion, I can, and do fill the MTM blocks with completed rounds ALMOST as quickly as the Pro7 when left alone, undisturbed, and without distraction. It is all about 'getting your rythym on'. This requires a self imposed dicipline and (for me) great attention to detail. Concentration. A calming mind and brain therapy. Takes one's thoughts away, even if temporarily so, all the stinkery in D.C. At 74 years I am in no particular hurry anyway. ;-)

Enjoy your time at whatever press you may choose. There are many in this Golden Era of at home reloading.

Be of good cheer, thanks for listening...
Wt.

[WyrTwister]

I have always used a single stage press set up and have not in the past loaded enough
volume in my mind to justify the cost of a good progressive set up. (Yet)
I do every once in a while think I might be missing something not having a turret press.
I have in the past resisted and let the urge pass but recently it has come back again.

Is there any real advantage a turret press has over a single stage press other than die set
up time which isn't much for me because I've always created a "dummie " round set up for
each and every bullet combination I load for.? What if anything am I missing? (thanks)[smilie=f:


First , I recommend the Lee cast iron turret press , hands down .

I loaded on a single stage Lee Challenger press for years . I loaded in batches & used a hand primer tool .

So , I know both methods .

With the Lee cast iron turret press , as you said , you set up your dies in a turret . Once set , if you do not change anything ( like the bullet ) , Next tome , you just plunk the turret into the press and you are ready to go . ( I do move the disk powder measure from turret to turret . )

The on press priming , if you buy the safety prime system , is very good . It works on the down travel of the ram , after the case has been sized .

Each pull of the handle auto-indexes the turret to the next die . With the powder die and disk powder measure , powder dispensing becomes automatic .

The real savings is you handle the case only twice . Once to put the case into the shell holder and once to remove the loaded round of ammo . You do have to pick up a bullet and put it into the mouth of the case . But you have to do that on a single stage press , too .

One round of loaded ammo , every 4 cycles of the handle .

I use carbide sizing dies on hand gun brass and do not lube the brass . So I do not have to wipe the lube off the loaded ammo .

Bottle neck rifle brass has to be pre-processed , as on a single stage press & lube wiped off .

God bless
Wyr

[1bluehorse]

The fellas that actually answered your question pretty well covered it...Like most here I have and use both. If a person is setup and experienced in batch loading, they could probably come close in production..let's say a turret will do 150 an hr. and batch loading 100...I'm sure those are variable numbers depending on who's loading...but they pretty much will mimic my numbers...the biggest advantage to me for the turret press is ease of use and plain old convenience..I still do 100% of my bottleneck rifle rounds on a SS..

[NMLRA Guy]

When I was active in Black Powder Cartridge Rifle shooting, I loaded lots of ammo in .40-63 and .40-65 calibers. Also, some in .45-70. You HAVE to clean the cases BEFORE you store them for loading. Decapping is necessary before cleaning. If you do that in a single stage with a sizing die, there is usually enought residual lube on the cases to not need to lube them. BUt you DO need to clean the die when done. Cleaning cases involves water to dissolve/remove the fouling or the case will be ruined in short order if the humidity is anything like it is here in the Ohio Valley. The cases must be thoroughly dried for obvious reasons. Those who like to "feel" the primer seating operation can do so off line in a hand press as I did. You then can insert the clean/primed case in a four-station press and have room to crimp separately if needed. If I'd had the Lee four-station modification back then, I'd have used it to prime on the press, as I like that priming system. I have not yet set up my Dillon 550.

[gunoil]

Like night and day!

lee classic cast turret press vid beliw:
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/4272A627-B8FC-4CFF-B356-C568E245DD30-8635-0000094ADB456B95.mp4

[LUBEDUDE]

There seems to be some classification confusion here.

When I hear someone talking about turret presses, Lymans, Reddings, RCBS, and Hollywoods come to mind.

Now if your talking about self indexing turrets, then it's Lee all the way.

Now the title of this thread did not differentiate. But maybe we need some classification in the future maybe? It sure makes a difference when talking about production rates or ease of this or that.

I mean, to me, the Lee turrets are really a progressive press. The turrets index instead of the shell plate.

[WyrTwister]

There seems to be some classification confusion here.

When I hear someone talking about turret presses, Lymans, Reddings, RCBS, and Hollywoods come to mind.

Now if your talking about self indexing turrets, then it's Lee all the way.

Now the title of this thread did not differentiate. But maybe we need some classification in the future maybe? It sure makes a difference when talking about production rates or ease of this or that.

I mean, to me, the Lee turrets are really a progressive press. The turrets index instead of the shell plate.

You are partially correct . To me , the auto-index turret press is the other style of turret press .

Different mindset , different method of operation . Different outcome , in terms of production .

God bless
wyr

[dromia]

[QUOTE=doulos;2012250]The speed difference for a properly set up single stage and turret isnt that great."

It really depends on how one USES the turret.

For my routine on the All-American, the case is placed in the shellholder and IS NOT REMOVED until completely loaded. I turn the turret from station to station to accomplish this.

There is NO time lost to handling cases over and over again before they're finally loaded. Many people will process all the brass through one step, such as sizing, and only then turn the turret to begin mouth-flaring all the brass, and only then move the turret for powder charging (if they even do the charging in the press)) and so on. All this unnecessary case-handling eats up time and does nothing to improve the ammunition. Use the turret press AS A TURRET, not just a place to store dies.

This is MUCH faster than a single-stage press; I started on a single 47 years ago, and believe me, I know. I still use a single, and a turret, and a progressive...they all have their uses but for routine loading the turret really shines.


Concur absolutely. I have a Redding T7 and Lyman Tru Line Junior turret presses and when used as a turret as described by BruceB in his posts in this thread then they are a very useful halfway house 'tween single and progressive presses. I don't think it worth while setting up the progressives for batches of ammunition less than 500 rounds but I have many calibres that I load maybe 2-300 rounds at a time as that is all the cases I have like 310 Cadet or 32-20. The turrets really come into their own then. I still use my single stages including a Co-Ax for load development small batches and BPCR handloading. If it came down to having only a progressive or a Turret then I'd keep the turret for its versatility as a single station press and enhanced production.

[1Shirt]

It is a factor of to each his own, and that includes his time. Have both, use both, no problems with either.
1Shirt!

[DxieLandMan]

I have both and use the single stage for rifle and the Lee Pro 1000 for pistols. I like Lee products and for what I use them for, they suit me fine.

[rbertalotto]

I shoot Cowboy Action and shoot roughly 200-250 rounds a week either in practice or competition.

Cowboy action shooting is extreme rapid fire.You can really ruin your day by firing a squib load lodging a bullet in the barrel and with the excitement of rapid fire, firing a full load round (or worse, a double charged round) right behind it. I shoot "Open Top" 1860 vintage revolvers and antique rifles. Having one of these blow up on you would not only be dangerous to body, it would be devastating to wallet!

Therefore, I use a Lee three hole. I deprime and flare.....remove case, hand prime and droip powder to 50 cases at a time. In this way I can then look at all 50 cases on the loading block to be sure they all have the correct amount of powder.

I seat the bullet and depending on the cartridge, I crimp during seating or I use a seperate Lee Factory Crimp Die.

For 45LC that I shoot in modern, Ruger SAA revolvers, I use a Lee 1000 progressive load. These Ruger revolvers could handle a double charge or a squib with another round after it...(don't ask me how I know...[smilie=b: ) Has never happened to me, but I've seen it happen a time or two with no ill effects.

Hope this helps..........

[o6Patient]

Your most recent post tells me you have not, perhaps, had much experience with a turret press?

BruceB says it all with "the case is not removed" and "each case to completion".

The turret is a different philosophy. On occasion, I can, and do fill the MTM blocks with completed rounds ALMOST as quickly as the Pro7 when left alone, undisturbed, and without distraction. It is all about 'getting your rythym on'. This requires a self imposed dicipline and (for me) great attention to detail. Concentration. A calming mind and brain therapy. Takes one's thoughts away, even if temporarily so, all the stinkery in D.C. At 74 years I am in no particular hurry anyway. ;-)

Enjoy your time at whatever press you may choose. There are many in this Golden Era of at home reloading.

Be of good cheer, thanks for listening...
Wt.
...I guess that would be the premise of the the thread.....erh? (see post #1

[o6Patient]

I guess I should have been more specific as to turret head, self indexing turret, verses progressive, etc.
..That would show I knew little about these type of presses(although it's hardly rocket science) but have
learned a great deal from all the posts so far. (thx much
My initial question should have asked: is there any real benefit to a manual indexing turret head press over a single stage or in my case, a multiple single stage set up.

I guess BruceB wrapped it up best for me: "There is NO time lost to handling cases over and over again
before they're finally loaded."

[walltube]

Re: post no. 39. Yep, that would be the premise...;)

Yours to the last WW,
Wt.

[o6Patient]

thx walltube:kidding:

[walltube]

o6Patient,

Back at Ya...[smilie=l:

been asleep at the wheel.........