RN bullets in levergun?

[currahee1911]

Hi,
Am a Wild Bunch shooter and load the same bullet into my .45 ACP and .45 Colt rounds.
Currently using a RNFP. Thinking of changing to a 230 gr. RN.

Any real danger of an accidental ignition in the magazine of a Winchester '73? I am asking because a fellow shooter said it is not a good idea. But I can't believe there is any realistic possibility of this occurring.

Am I wrong?

Your input sincerely appreciated.

Cordially,
C.8-)

[Ragnarok]

Hmmmm...magazine explosions!!...Never seen one personaly. I've heard of them...but never from anybody first-hand....There was a fellow who was jacking the rounds from a .45 Colt levergun not long back that detonated an ejected round as it landed primer-first onto another ejected round...seen pitchers and everything!!

I can see the danger of bullets riding on primers in a long heavy stack of rounds bouncing back and forth under recoil and spring pressure. Safe is better than sorry!!

[btroj]

Hornady sure does sell a lot of RN bullets for 30-30. The Lyman 311291 is a round nose and has been a favorite of lever action 30-30 shooters for many decades.

I don't think a RN is going to be an issue. It has a blunt enough shape to keep the impact from being sharp enough to be likely to set off a primer.

In the end up need to follow your gut. If it makes you feel better to never use anything but a flat nose in a tube magazine then follow your heart.

[wv109323]

I don't think it is a good idea to use a round nose in a tubular magazine. Most all ammo intended for tubular magazines have a flat nose that is larger than the primer.

[btroj]

Guys, ever buy factory 30-30 ammo? Not many flat nosed bullets in the ones I have seen.

[helice]

If it's a worry for you bump a small meplat on your round nosed boolit when you lube-size. Primers aren't very big. It's easy to bump a meplat that small in the RCBS.:) You are talking about a cast round nose aren't you?

[StrawHat]

Also, the rim of the cartridge will help keep the bullet angled slightly downward.

[Ragnarok]

Well?....http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?73196-how-flat-is-flat-nose-for-tube-mag

[currahee1911]

Hornady sure does sell a lot of RN bullets for 30-30. The Lyman 311291 is a round nose and has been a favorite of lever action 30-30 shooters for many decades.

I don't think a RN is going to be an issue. It has a blunt enough shape to keep the impact from being sharp enough to be likely to set off a primer.

In the end up need to follow your gut. If it makes you feel better to never use anything but a flat nose in a tube magazine then follow your heart.

Thanks, fellas, for your help. My gut; however, says stick w. the RNFP for the rifle.
Happy Trails.
-C.

[fecmech]

Take a primed empty case put it in a vise primer up. Hold your favorite round nose bullet with a pair of pliers point down and use it like a punch on the primer. Hit the back of the bullet with a hammer and try to fire the primer. Bet ya can't!

[Ragnarok]

Take a primed empty case put it in a vise primer up. Hold your favorite round nose bullet with a pair of pliers point down and use it like a punch on the primer. Hit the back of the bullet with a hammer and try to fire the primer. Bet ya can't!

Bet I ain't going to try either...here is the earlier incident I was thinking of..not a mag-tube blast..but an lever-gun unloading incident.

Just to show that a loaded round igniting unchambered doesn't just go 'POOF'...http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?133617-Injury-pics-from-cartridge-explosion

Safety is what you make of it...and stuff happens

[BCRider]

It's probably best to stick to the RNFP. But in reality I seriously doubt that the dull rounded end of a typical 230gn RN is going to be sharp enough to set off a primer.

The recoil in a .30-30 is MUCH greater than with a .45Colt. Especially loaded down to cowboy levels. The nose of the Hornady bullets mentioned above that are made for lever rifles is a "dull" larger radius round nose shape which is pretty darn close to the nose radius of a 230gn RN lead bullet. And those don't set off each others' primers. The company bet their liability insurance bill on it. So you KNOW it's a slam dunk deal.

[OverMax]

Given time stack loaded in a tubular magazine with a occasional discharge every now and then. RN w/an exposed lead nose bullet will indeed become Flat nosed fairly quick.

As a kid I did see my careless brother accidentally discharge a 22 into the loading gate of my father 336 SC marlin with its magazine full. BOOM!! Hole in the sheet rock wall behind the gun rack and the only salvageable part left of my fathers well kept marlin was > its barrel. Needless to say no one was pleased with my older brothers miss adventure that day. Please keep in mind our home was well out in the country with typical farm-yard animals about. And we had our fair share of grey wolves always on the prowl hoping to grab a calf or our pet (house) dog. So it was customary at that time to keep a rifle or shotguns magazine loaded. But its chamber emptied outside before coming into the house was the Rule. As soon as one entered our kitchen there was the typical vertical gun rack mounted to the wall besides the kitchens doorway. When entering we kids were instructed to have our barrels always pointed directly upwards for safety. Well,~~ it was thought so at the time.

[Ragnarok]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19142&d=1264198833

It's pictures like these that keep me in line..checking for high primers...using flat-nose bullets(although the bullets used here were roundnose flatpoint!!)

It's not that tube mag-KABOOMs don't happen...that fact is undeniable...the manuals warn of it...I guess historicaly Spencers and Henrys were known to blow on occasion...the pic above shows that it still happens..although it must be rare as that's the ONLY incident I could find any real info about...all others being merely 'he says she says' type deals

Makes me ask this question...Just how do tube mag big-bore lever-guns survive a diet of hard-cast heavy kicking loads without a mag detonation!!??....magnum primers would be my guess at an answer here..

This makes me guess...just a guess...that an occasional high-primer or too sensitive a primer causes most of these issues in modern times.

[Gtek]

+1 on the muzzle up, that way nobody gets muzzle swept. Ceiling and roof easier to get over than human hole. And to those of you that feel the need to push the envelope on RN's, meplat not larger than primer- If you do not have a really nice camera go buy one please. The high def pictures really do help in the dramatic effect of the kaboom thread. Gtek

[smkummer]

I have been loading 30-30 for 10 plus years with mostly RN jacketed because that what was available. This is for both the Win. 94 and Marlin 336.
1. It is very doubtful that the tip of the bullet is resting on the center of the primer. It is probably resting off center of the case or in the crevice between the primer and case.
2. Primers "usually" need the very center struck with the proper shape firing pin to ignite.
3. Remember that we all push or ram primers into place..
I am now currently loading Lyman's 311041 FP and Lyman's 311291 RN as my plinking rounds because they are great bullets and lyman shows both for the 30-30.

[double8]

I've shot many a 350gr round nose Jwords from my 1886 45-70 with 4 more in the tube. Still shooting the 86, but I prefer flats or hollow points.

[waco]

Guys, ever buy factory 30-30 ammo? Not many flat nosed bullets in the ones I have seen.

Agree fully....

[alamogunr]

A couple of years ago(I think), Precision Shooting had an article that investigated the problem of primers being set off in a tubular magazine. They even made up a test fixture so various experiments could be performed. I don't remember the conclusion but if I can find the magazine, I'll post that conclusion.

[bob208]

i have been loading 150gr round nose j bulletsm in .30-30 for years and never have had a problem. i have even looked at the primers and have never seen a mark.

[alamogunr]

I just finished going through all my back issues of Precision Shooting. I could not find the article I mentioned. I Googled Precision Shooting and found an announcement that they had ceased publication with the October issue. I hate that! I don't do benchrest except to sight in and develop loads but there was much more to the magazine. I now know why the October 2012 issue was the last one I could find.

[StrawHat]

I believe a similar article was published in RIFLE magazine (Wolf Publishing). I do not have back copies or I would look.

[plainsman456]

I have been shooting round nose jacketed bullets in both of my 30-30s for 30+ years and have not had 1 worry about anything happening.

I don't feel that it is something to worry about.

[alamogunr]

I believe a similar article was published in RIFLE magazine (Wolf Publishing). I do not have back copies or I would look.

Maybe that is what I am remembering(?). I sold my collection of Rifle magazine a couple of years ago. From what I remember the article went into great detail about the tests that were carried out and the results they arrived at. That doesn't jive with the usual Rifle article.

Someone in a previous post mentioned that the point of a bullet would not rest directly on the primer of the round in front. That was one of the things the writer of the article pointed out. He intentionally detonated a round in a magazine to see the effect. I think it blew a hole in the magazine tube but did not set off any other rounds.

I'm going to keep looking for the article.

[LAH]

Take a primed empty case put it in a vise primer up. Hold your favorite round nose bullet with a pair of pliers point down and use it like a punch on the primer. Hit the back of the bullet with a hammer and try to fire the primer. Bet ya can't!

I set a bunch of 147 grain RN bullets to Jim Taylor for use in his 357 Mag. Puma. I warned him of their use in a tube magazine. He placed a primed case in a vice, set the bullet tip on the primer & after several attempts he could not set the primer off. Knowing Jim he tried more than once & more than one way.

I loaded many rounds of Remington 150 grain CL bullets in 30-06 for the locals. Still sitting on thousands with a local demand for 30-30 ammo I called Remington about the use of this same bullet in the ole 30-30. The tech asked the part number of said bullet & replied that's the same bullet we use in the 30-30 factory round. Hope this helps.

[The Kid]

All factory 35rem ammo I've ever seen has had a RN, other than the LE stuff with the gummy tip. Speer's 30-30 and 35 rem component bullets both have a flat point that is small enough it fits perfectly in the primer pocket of the round in front of it. Without a FMJ or extremely hard cast bullet of spitzer shape, and heavy recoil, I just don't see it happening. I would bet a bunch of money that you would never have an issue with 45 Colt cowboy loads.

[TXGunNut]

Guys, ever buy factory 30-30 ammo? Not many flat nosed bullets in the ones I have seen.

Exactly! The RN 45 ACP bullet most likely has a larger radius than the common RN jacketed levergun rounds and the rifle will generate less recoil as well. Pistol primers are a bit more sensitive but still plenty of safety margin built in. FP boolits are actually a recent and somewhat unusual loading for leverguns, very little to do with safety.
Dropped ammo is another subject altogether, IMHO.

[LAH]

And then you have these though they are plastic tips.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Loading%20Room%20101/Bullets/Picture083-1.jpg

[7of7]

Take a primed empty case put it in a vise primer up. Hold your favorite round nose bullet with a pair of pliers point down and use it like a punch on the primer. Hit the back of the bullet with a hammer and try to fire the primer. Bet ya can't!

I have done that, with pointed lead tipped bullets... the only thing I was able to do, was mash the lead tip. Same thing with the hard polymer tipped bullets.. (of course, it was a CCI primer)
I haven't used flat pointed bullets... I reload with 150 grain round nose.. have had no problems.. and I use CCI primers all the time.. (lately, I have tried the Fiocchi primers.. )
I now make a nice 130 grain flat nose hollow point, the meplat is the same diameter as the primer.. they shoot really nice..

[jlchucker]

Although nowadays most of my 30-30 shooting is done with a flatnose cast boolit, down in my loading area I've got a bulk-packed box of Remington Core-loct 170 grain bullets with a barcode label identifying them as a component for 30-30. These are round-nose. Looking at a few boxes of commercial Remington 30-30 ammo, I see that both the 170 loads and 150 loads (Corelocts) are also round-nose. How many millions of these have been fired over the years, with no blowups? I wonder. Maybe not too many because the bulk of 30-30 people don't handload, nor do they shoot up too much ammo.

[jh45gun]

Factory Jacked Loads are RN. That said if I was going to use a cast bullet in the 30/30 for hunting the RN is a poor choice they slip right through with no deformation if you do not hit a bone squarely. A cast bullet with a flat metplat is better for cast bullet hunting.

[Ragnarok]

You fella's keep talking about the .30-30 and it's roundnose bullets and how the factory ammo is roundnose...and feeling all good about the mag-exploding deal and such.

All well and good...however the .30-30 is one particular cartridge using up to maybe a 200gr bullet in a particular length and shape cartridge. Not all tube-mag ammo is .30-30...and not all ammo for lever-guns use 200gr bullets...I seem to notice the lion's share of lever-gun ammo is flat-points

The point about whacking primed cases with bullets makes me smile!!....I'm not trying to expound on the danger or anything...but there does seem to be an atmosphere of denial here..."Them warnings in the manual..and in the reloading books don't apply to me"!!

"Dangers over boys! tube mag explosions have stopped..them safety warnings are bogus now...I whacked live primers with a bullet..nuthin happened!"

I would say that although the occurances of tube-mag detonations is rather rare..it is nevertheless something to be concerned about and avoided. What you can get away with in a .30-30...you may not get away with with some other caliber. Probably a good idea to obey the published safety destructions for any particular rifle and ammunition.

Or maybe not...safety is what safety is...and sometimes all it is is a state of mind...'monkey see..monkey do' safety depends on how safe the first monkey was...first monkey may have just been lucky!

[Jim]

I spent thirty years in industrial construction and safety was hammered on every day. I don't go to the head without a safety plan. I prefer to err on the side of caution, so I'll stick with the flat points for my 336.

[LAH]

Tim Sundles has Starline produce 45-70 brass for his operation with a small primer pocket because of possible magazine explosions. His loads however are big loads. I would venture to guess the old 45-70 loads used in the '86 Winchester were RN.

One of the lighter bullets I like for the 30-30 which isn't a RN & certainly isn't like the Hornady LEVERevolution bullet above.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Loading%20Room%20101/Bullets/Lyman%20311440B/011.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Loading%20Room%20101/Bullets/Lyman%20311440B/009.jpg

[DeanWinchester]

Take a primed empty case put it in a vise primer up. Hold your favorite round nose bullet with a pair of pliers point down and use it like a punch on the primer. Hit the back of the bullet with a hammer and try to fire the primer. Bet ya can't!


I did this with a Lee spire point boolit cast from water dropped WWs. I beat it so hard I had the impression of the primer on the nose of the boolit. I posted pictures here and I all I got was flack and lip for promoting unsafe practices.

It DID prove to me though that you are NOT going to set of a primer with a cast bullet. I'd use any round nose I could find that shot and fed well and wouldn't think twice about it.

[fecmech]

The point about whacking primed cases with bullets makes me smile!!....I'm not trying to expound on the danger or anything...but there does seem to be an atmosphere of denial here..."Them warnings in the manual..and in the reloading books don't apply to me"!!
There's no atmosphere of denial just a case of common sense and looking at the odds. So far I have not seen any evidence of a chain fire with RN bullets. The pictures floating around the web of mag blowup are from flat point bullets so I guess it can happen with any kind of bullet. There are all kinds of warnings in our society, some make good sense and others are so remote as to classified as CYA for the manufacturer. If I were to heed all the warnings out there I'd curl up in a fetal position in my bedroom and not move. I submit you are in more danger driving to the store to get a loaf of bread than loading RN bullets in a tube magazine. No one is telling anyone they must do it, if a person feels it's dangerous don't do it.

[Shuz]

There's no atmosphere of denial just a case of common sense and looking at the odds. So far I have not seen any evidence of a chain fire with RN bullets. The pictures floating around the web of mag blowup are from flat point bullets so I guess it can happen with any kind of bullet. There are all kinds of warnings in our society, some make good sense and others are so remote as to classified as CYA for the manufacturer. If I were to heed all the warnings out there I'd curl up in a fetal position in my bedroom and not move. I submit you are in more danger driving to the store to get a loaf of bread than loading RN bullets in a tube magazine. No one is telling anyone they must do it, if a person feels it's dangerous don't do it.

Very well said!

I use Lyman's 311291 in both the solid and hollow point version in my .30-30 Marlin 336's. However I closely inspect the hollow point boolits after they have been loaded because I have noticed a rough "tit" around the hollow point on a few. I've even gone so far as to file the noses just a scoosh to remove the tit. The 311291 solids don't have that problem.

[muskeg13]

It DID prove to me though that you are NOT going to set of a primer with a cast bullet. While it must not take much to convince you of your infallibility, I hope others who might read this thread would be more careful of maintaining all of their body parts and functions. Your statement is most definitely incorrect.

We've debated mag tube explosions before, here and in other forums. Some folks just won't believe something could be dangerous unless it happens to them. Oh well

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?73196-how-flat-is-flat-nose-for-tube-mag&highlight=magazine+tube+explosion

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45773

[LAH]

There's no atmosphere of denial just a case of common sense and looking at the odds.

I have no reason deny what has happened to others but that doesn't change the fact of which bullets Remington Arms loads & sells for such loads. Just saying.

[fecmech]

Muskeg--the two links you cite are the same gun and it was blown up supposedly with .44 mag loadings of FLAT POINT bullets. If a fellow really wants to be safe he shouldn't load the mag tube.

[bob208]

some one said about other rounds. well the .35 remington is loaded with rn. the .25-35 is loaded with a rn.

[muskeg13]

fecmech: There's no supposedly about it. The blown up gun and injuries referenced in the links and accompanying photos is mine/me. How much more proof is needed to refute the asinine claim that cast boolits can't set off a primer?

Going back to the original post in this thread, about whether .45 Colt round nose boolits in a lever tube would be safe. I'd say depending on how blunt the noses are, they may not be safe because of the caliber. It's much different with a bottle-necked rimmed cartridge like a 30-30, because of the way the rounds lay stacked in the magazine. The noses of 30-30s and like cartridges point down and rest against the outside of the rim. For the .45 Colt, with straight sides and a scant rim, the nose will rest directly against the primer. Also, some .45 Colt boolits have almost a pointed nose with a tiny metplat. These should be of particular concern in a tube magazine.

[fecmech]

How much more proof is needed to refute the asinine claim that cast boolits can't set off a primer?
Muskeg--In my original post I said "I'll bet you can't" I did not say it was impossible. I tried it enough times that I think it's not something I'm going to worry about. Just about anything is possible, just not very probable. You can drive to the store for a loaf of bread every day for years safely. Your neighbor gets killed driving to the store for bread. Do you now not go to the store for fear of being in an accident??
You missed my main point that he blew his gun up with flat point bullets, FLAT POINT BULLETS! So based on that should we not load any lead bullets of any kind in a tube mag??

[Ed in North Texas]

You fella's keep talking about the .30-30 and it's roundnose bullets and how the factory ammo is roundnose...and feeling all good about the mag-exploding deal and such.

All well and good...however the .30-30 is one particular cartridge using up to maybe a 200gr bullet in a particular length and shape cartridge. Not all tube-mag ammo is .30-30...and not all ammo for lever-guns use 200gr bullets...I seem to notice the lion's share of lever-gun ammo is flat-points

The point about whacking primed cases with bullets makes me smile!!....I'm not trying to expound on the danger or anything...but there does seem to be an atmosphere of denial here..."Them warnings in the manual..and in the reloading books don't apply to me"!!

"Dangers over boys! tube mag explosions have stopped..them safety warnings are bogus now...I whacked live primers with a bullet..nuthin happened!"

I would say that although the occurances of tube-mag detonations is rather rare..it is nevertheless something to be concerned about and avoided. What you can get away with in a .30-30...you may not get away with with some other caliber. Probably a good idea to obey the published safety destructions for any particular rifle and ammunition.

Or maybe not...safety is what safety is...and sometimes all it is is a state of mind...'monkey see..monkey do' safety depends on how safe the first monkey was...first monkey may have just been lucky!

And when that first unlucky monkey has a blowup from shooting factory round nose .35 Remington rounds, his lawyer will have a field day. But maybe the factories have thought that through pretty good? I'm sure their lawyers have given the subject due consideration.

Ed

[LAH]

I'm sure their lawyers have given the subject due consideration.

To be sure.

[ohiochuck]

I have been spending recent cold evenings reading: Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West by Mike Venturino. On page 121 he states " One feature that was universal to all bullets used in this section (of the book) is that they are of roundnose/flat point (RN/FP) shape. This is important! Don't let anyone ever convince you that you can get by with a regular roundnose bullet in a tubular magazine lever gun. That roundnose, especially in a hard cast bullet, can ignite the primer of the round ahead of it in the magazine. This is a real hazard, and has happened to people I know personally. The RN/FP shape of bullet allows good feeding in lever guns, but is not apt to cause any accidents. Think about this; the RN/FP is exactly the shape of bullet all these Old West lever guns were designed to use."

[williamwaco]

One more opinion.

Forget abut the likelihood or the unlikelihood of this actually happening.

If you are looking at a deer over the front sight, and you happen to wonder "O, gee! I wonder if I am about to blow my hand off?"

You will go home with no meat.

.

[Ragnarok]

One more opinion.

Forget abut the likelihood or the unlikelihood of this actually happening.

If you are looking at a deer over the front sight, and you happen to wonder "O, gee! I wonder if I am about to blow my hand off?"

You will go home with no meat.

.

Hmmm...If you didn't 'wonder' about the blowing your hand off part when you opened the box of ammo to load the rifle...why would you wonder about it when you are about to blast a deer??

[1Shirt]

Most of the 94 Win's just love 311291's
1Shirt!

[TXGunNut]

When I'm getting ready to shoot a deer (or hog or coyote) and my mind wanders away from sight alignment and trigger control I'll wait until I can focus on the matter at hand. But no, a gun blowing up never crosses my mind at a moment like that.

[leadman]

The warning is against using spitzer bullets in a magazine tube, not roundnose. The 311291 when first introduced was specified for the 30-30. All of the blow-ups I have read of were with handloaded ammo. Makes one wonder if the primer was below flush with the case head when it was loaded? I did see a figure of how far below the case head the primer should be but don't remember it or where I saw it. Probably will in the middle of the night when it wakes me up!
In order for the recoil to set off a primer in a magazine it has to overcome the spring tension of the mag spring so the cartridges are not held together. I read reports of mag tubes doing this with the 450 Alaskan. Ever try to pound a nail in without swinging the hammer?

[rexherring]

I just too a look at some old .30-30 rounds I had collected. Some of these are close to 50 years or or more. All of them are round nose. Now those jacketed bullets are filled with pure and very soft lead so I don't think they would be a problem however, if you cast a harder, non pure lead, boolit, it could be a different thing. I still remember unloading my old 94 after shooting and a few of the rounds in the tube were flattening out the tips of those old round noses.

[square butte]

Have noticed that I can no longer find a jacketed bullet in flat point for 25-35 win. anymore - which limits me to cast. Actually it's been 10 tears or so since i was able to find anyone who currently produced a jacketed bullet for this round. Guess the demand is just not enough for 25-35. Just not making them anymore.

[ohiochuck]

Square butte:
Consider checking these sites:
Contact Hawk Custom Bullets and see if they will make you FP boolits and cost
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?1594-CB-loads-for-the-25-35-Win-or-25-Rem

http://montanabulletworks.com/25_35_Rifle.html
Cast boolits might work if the bore is good to excellent

I would recommend you post a new thread under Lever Action Rifles on this sight and ask if anyone has a supply of 25-35 bullets that they no longer need. You might be able to purchase some.
Good luck

[square butte]

I am alredy using cast - but on occaision would like to push it a little faster than cast will allow with a winchester twist rate. Will put up a thread to see if anyone has any flat nose jacketed laying around that they might be interested in parting with. Thanks for the suggestions and PM.

[jlchucker]

And when that first unlucky monkey has a blowup from shooting factory round nose .35 Remington rounds, his lawyer will have a field day. But maybe the factories have thought that through pretty good? I'm sure their lawyers have given the subject due consideration.

Ed

For sure the Remington lawyers have had lots of time to give the subject due consideration. Old timey 35 Rems had that spiral tube magazine, and they've been around since before WW I. Marlin's been making 35 leverguns since not long after WW II. So far, so good. I don't worry about shooting Roundnose Corelocts in my Marlin 35---but these days, I'm a cast boolit man, and my 35 uses the RCBS 200 gr flatnose so I guess I'm safe enough.

[7of7]

You fella's keep talking about the .30-30 and it's roundnose bullets and how the factory ammo is roundnose...and feeling all good about the mag-exploding deal and such.

All well and good...however the .30-30 is one particular cartridge using up to maybe a 200gr bullet in a particular length and shape cartridge. Not all tube-mag ammo is .30-30...and not all ammo for lever-guns use 200gr bullets...I seem to notice the lion's share of lever-gun ammo is flat-points

The point about whacking primed cases with bullets makes me smile!!....I'm not trying to expound on the danger or anything...but there does seem to be an atmosphere of denial here..."Them warnings in the manual..and in the reloading books don't apply to me"!!

"Dangers over boys! tube mag explosions have stopped..them safety warnings are bogus now...I whacked live primers with a bullet..nuthin happened!"

I would say that although the occurances of tube-mag detonations is rather rare..it is nevertheless something to be concerned about and avoided. What you can get away with in a .30-30...you may not get away with with some other caliber. Probably a good idea to obey the published safety destructions for any particular rifle and ammunition.

Or maybe not...safety is what safety is...and sometimes all it is is a state of mind...'monkey see..monkey do' safety depends on how safe the first monkey was...first monkey may have just been lucky!

It is, however a good way to judge for yourself, the sensitivity of the primers you are using, with the bullet style you are using. The only primer I have ever popped during reloading, was a winchester primer while loading 38 special. Would I use a pointed bullet with those primers.. probably not, Round nose? probably not since I popped one off while seating primers.. Do I put a little more pressure on the handle when I am sizing/lubing them to create a flat? Yep.. sure do..
Would I load pointed bullets in my 30-30 magazine? No, mainly because I couldn't seat it deep enough.. (so, I created a nice hollow point, that is a bit concaved on the lead walls.. basically, it will fit around the edge of the primer, but not the center part..

I also use CCI primers, which are known to be on the hard side..

I am glad that Muskeg13 is okay after his mishap, but am quite curious on the specifics surrounding the mishap.. What were the loads (hot, luke warm), primers used... how many were in the magazine... Where it occurred in the magazine, more toward the receiver or middle?..
( I am an analyst who likes to look at events for root causes beyond the obvious.. things like how much force it takes for a specific primer to detonate.. how it could that amount of force be applied while in the magazine with spring tension pushing them together... etc.. )

[muskeg13]

There were 6 rounds in the mag tube at the time and all 6 went off. Read this thread if you want more info and photos:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?73196-how-flat-is-flat-nose-for-tube-mag/page2&highlight=magazine+tube+explosion

[frank505]

Thirty or so years ago, my good friend Kent Lomont was shooting a 450 Alaskan with 500 grain ROUND NOSE bullets and heavy charges. Some rounds in the magazine tube detonated and removed part of his left hand. His father always admonished me for continuing my use of lever guns. I ALWAYS USE FLAT NOSE BULLETS in my lever guns, no matter what caliber.

[lovedogs]

I have a Lyman 311291 mould that I haven't tried in my 336 yet but when I first got it I was concerned about it in the mag tube, also. My thinking was that even though it's a RN the alloy we use is much harder than the tips on factory jacketed ammo. I wondered if it'd cause a detonation when it struck the primer ahead of it. So I called Lyman. Figured they'd know for sure. They assured me that no matter what alloy I used it wouldn't set off a primer ahead of it. For one thing the mag spring acts like a shock absorber and the rounds in the mag don't get hit with the full force like if they were immoveable. For another thing, in a tube mag the rim of a .30-30 round will tilt the nose of the bullet down while it's in the mag while the rim holds it up off the wall of the mag. A RN bullet will hit the primer off-center and on the rim of the primer pocket. If you lay two .30-30's on a table lined up one behind the other you'll see who it works. I don't think you could have a mag detonation even with a high primer because the tip of the bullet is way off-center on the primer. You probably couldn't even dent the round edge of the primer due to the shock absorbing action of the mag spring. At most you might bump the primer deeper into the pocket. Think about it. Try laying two rounds on a table lined up with one another and see for yourself. It's doubtful Lyman would still be selling the 311291 if you could have a mag detonation using it. Honestly, the only mag explosion I've seen was with a Marlin 1895 .45-70 when a friend accidentally double-charged with 2400 and a 405 gr. bullet. Now that was an explosion! Fortunately, he only suffered a cut finger that was remedied with a few stitches. But the rifle was ruined. The action held but it blew a chunk off the top of the barrel ahead of the receiver taking the threaded part of the receiver with it. The mag tube was blown open. And no one found anything of the forearm but splinters. So much for using small amounts of fast powder and not paying attention. Always look into the case before seating a bullet. It might save your life, eyes, or a hand. Anyway, we can put mag detonation fears in .30-30's with RN bullets to rest.

[alamogunr]

Anybody keeping score??

[LAH]

anybody keeping score??

hee hee

[7of7]

Anybody keeping score??

I think it is now 50/50...

(I am confident that the bullets/primers/loads I use, won't end up causing me grief... in my 30-30, and 357)

[Multigunner]

Federal recalled a run of .30-30 ammo years ago due to too soft primers, and there have been ADs of Federal auto pistol ammo with too sensitive primers blamed.

An early U S Army trial of .45-70 bolt action rifles included one design that used a tublar magazine in the buttstock. There were tube magazine accidents with that rifle.

Seems to me that when reloading for a pistol cartridge chambered tube magazine rifle one should not use regular pistol primers, or any primer that has a rep for unusual sensitivity.
A rifle action is made to ignite rifle primers, so using a rifle primer should pose no problems.

[jkoper]

I recently bought a rossi 92 in 357 mag. The fella I bought it from gave me a couple boxes of ammo he had been using, they were 38 spcl FMJ . When I opened the box and saw those primers with dents all over them I almost fell over.:shock: Big flat meplat for me thank you very much.
61304

[BAGTIC]

It may be possible but extremely unlikely. I suspect the odds of blowing something up due to a reloading mistake or of accidentally shooting someone, including oneself, due to careless handling would be many times higher. Anyone who demands absolute guarantees in life is going to be very disappointed and miss out on a lot.