Crimping with Lee Loader?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I just had my first experience with a Lee Loader. I bought one in .308 as a gift for the fellow that let us hunt his land this fall. He is new to reloading so I though I would give it a try before sending him off with it. I started with a box of cases out of his rifle, sized, primed, expanded the cases with a pair of needle nose for a cast boolit. Charged the case, then tried to crimp the bullet, not much, just enough to get rid of the flare. Seemed like it took way more force than it should have to get a crimp, one case even buckled in the process. Is the brass too hard and need annealing? Or is the "funnel" used to crimp the wrong angle? Or both? Any ideas would be appreciated...

[fishnbob]

Which Lee Die set is it? Some have only 2 dies, others have 3, or 4 dies in the set. The Lee Deluxe .308 that I just bought has 3 dies, one is a Collet Neck Sizer, one is a Full length sizer and the other is the bullet seater die. The 4-die set has a Factory Crimp Die which you can buy separately. The Collet Neck Sizer is supposed to hold the tension on the bullet with out a crimp.

[P.K.]

Which Lee Die set is it? Some have only 2 dies, others have 3, or 4 dies in the set. The Lee Deluxe .308 that I just bought has 3 dies, one is a Collet Neck Sizer, one is a Full length sizer and the other is the bullet seater die. The 4-die set has a Factory Crimp Die which you can buy separately. The Collet Neck Sizer is supposed to hold the tension on the bullet with out a crimp.


I think the OP was referring to one of these here thing a' ma bob's. ;-)

58568

What paticular style rifle were these reloads going into? I understand belling the mouth for cast but you shouldn't have to do too much. If a bolt or single, simple neck tention from the sizing process should be more than enough when seated.

[Beekeeper]

Silver creak,
I loaded with one for about 20 years in 30/06.
To crimp you stand the barrel of the loader upright, guess you can call it the funnel end, altho I never used it that way.
Put the loaded shell in nose first.
Place the decapping base over the base of the shell and tap with a mallet.
It takes a little time to learn the feel for how much "mallet tap" to use but it does a good job of crimping once you figure it out.
I loaded a lot of match ammo using one back when I was young and foolish.

I'm sure someone else will chime in now and say it diferent but thaat is the way I did it and still do ever once in a while just to keep the hands busy.

But hey I'm no expert you know.


beekeeper

[Beekeeper]

Deleted, double post

[fishnbob]

I think the OP was referring to one of these here thing a' ma bob's. ;-)

58568

What paticular style rifle were these reloads going into? I understand belling the mouth for cast but you shouldn't have to do too much. If a bolt or single, simple neck tention from the sizing process should be more than enough when seated.

Thanks, P.K., I musta been speedreading and flew right over the word 'LOADER', BY GOLLY!

[Muskrat Mike]

Silver creak,
I loaded with one for about 20 years in 30/06.
To crimp you stand the barrel of the loader upright, guess you can call it the funnel end, altho I never used it that way.
Put the loaded shell in nose first.
Place the decapping base over the base of the shell and tap with a mallet.
It takes a little time to learn the feel for how much "mallet tap" to use but it does a good job of crimping once you figure it out.
I loaded a lot of match ammo using one back when I was young and foolish.

I'm sure someone else will chime in now and say it diferent but thaat is the way I did it and still do ever once in a while just to keep the hands busy.

But hey I'm no expert you know.


beekeeper
+1 to Beekeeper's advice!

There is a small learning curve. Run your fingernail over the edge of the case before and after you crimp. It doesn't take much and you'll be able to feel it before you can see it.
Mike

[MBTcustom]

I never saw the need to crimp ammo, but if you are going to do it with the Lee loader, Beekeeper has the right of it.

[P.K.]

Thanks, P.K., I musta been speedreading and flew right over the word 'LOADER', BY GOLLY!

No worries, I don't know how many times I've done the same. ;-)

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I never saw the need to crimp ammo, but if you are going to do it with the Lee loader, Beekeeper has the right of it.

Can you explain some more? I would love to skip a step, but how do I get rid of the flare so the round will chamber? Also, I aways see things like "Heavy crimp required" for magnum handgun rounds (esp with 296), lever action ammo, even my Lee seating die for the 30-06 does not get rid of the M-die flare, so I have to at least give it a light crimp so the round will chamber.

[Beekeeper]

On the flair ,
I never used one as all of my rounds had been fired in that particular rifle and the Lee Loader only neck sizes any way
Also when I was shooting match I only used jacketed.
For cast I would ream or sand the neck sizing area out to the size of the boolit needed and go from there.
Only ream out the area that neck sizes the case,and leave the crimping area there as it must be the size of the boolit not the case.
Sounds confusing but the loaders do really work good.
With cast unless you are going to put the boolits in a magazine or clip I do not see a reason to crimp.
If you don't want to try reaming or sanding it out Buckshot could do it for you.
PM him and ask his advice!
Maybe he could make you a crimp die similar to the Lee loader that would take the flair out as well!


beekeeper

[sthwestvictoria]

A picture is worth 1000:

58664

Some people make a circular plastic crimping spacer to ensure just the right about of crimp. There was a great thread on this on http://garagegunsmithing.com/ forum but the forum seems to have closed.

See also this thread:
http://castboolits.g...ee-Loader/page8

scroll down to the "healthydee" entry to see what I mean in terms of crimp spacer.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Thanks SWVic, that's what I did, it just seemed to take more force than I thought it should. I can't get the CastBoolits link to work to see the spacer, think you could try again?

[sthwestvictoria]

this is the correct link:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?7764-Lee-Loader/page8

[MBTcustom]

On the flair ,
I never used one as all of my rounds had been fired in that particular rifle and the Lee Loader only neck sizes any way
Also when I was shooting match I only used jacketed.
For cast I would ream or sand the neck sizing area out to the size of the boolit needed and go from there.
Only ream out the area that neck sizes the case,and leave the crimping area there as it must be the size of the boolit not the case.
Sounds confusing but the loaders do really work good.
With cast unless you are going to put the boolits in a magazine or clip I do not see a reason to crimp.
If you don't want to try reaming or sanding it out Buckshot could do it for you.
PM him and ask his advice!
Maybe he could make you a crimp die similar to the Lee loader that would take the flair out as well!


beekeeper

Exactly.
You can hone out the boolit seating diameter so that it correctly sizes and seats your gas checked boolits, and then hone out the neck sizing portion until you only have .001-.002 squeeze on the boolit. If you put a good chamfer on the case mouth, you will have good results, and your brass will last forever.
The lee loader is an amazing tool, and it can be made to work with cast boolits just as well as jacketed if you make it match the cartridge correctly. I love 'em!

[kweidner]

I have 3. Love em for the simplicity. I make custom scoops and spacers for mine too. My spacer is a milled down cymbal stand joint from a broken cymbal stand. Can whack all you want but the crimp will only crimp what you mill spacer to allow. Super consistent.

[Dave Bulla]

Couple things...

One, you don't need much of a flare.

Two, using a champher tool on the case mouth is a big help.

Three, make sure you are seating the boolit with the case mouth over the crimp groove. It is difficult to crimp the case if there is no gap behind it. It'll still crimp but it will reshape the boolit in the process. Also, it is harder to crimp when loading jacketed bullets because the cannelure is so shallow compared to a crimp groove. I've also noticed that my 30-30 loader does a beautiful crimp but the one for my 35 Remington seems to have a sharper taper or something and kinda feels like it hooks on the case mouth and mashes rather then rolling it over into a crimp. Like the bevel inside the dye is a different angle maybe?

Four, if needed, you can run the loaded round back into the sizing side of the dye (gently) and it will iron out the flare. Don't overdo it though or it will swage the bullet diameter down. I put the decapping chamber over the case (upside down) to protect the primer and just very gently tap to remove the flare. But honestly, the flare should not be that pronounced.

I plan to make a flare tool from a drift punch. It will start out with a drift shank longer than the inside of the case is deep and I'll cut it down until it's just short enough that the portion where the drift shank tapers back into the handle enters the case mouth just enough to give me a proper flare.