Could use some input on 158/160 DE Wad Cutter for 38/357

[gefiltephish]

Most wad cutters I see are in the 148/150 range. My guns are sighted for 158/160 so I'd like to stay with that weight.

I have yet to shoot wad cutters, but plenty of SWC's. I've seen photos of double ended, and that has some appeal to my lazy side - ever so slightly easier/quicker to pick up and place on brass (progressive press). Also, most molds I see have many lube grooves. Why so many? I only need one for my other bullets. I'm thinking all that's needed is just one in the center. Is there some reason that what I'm looking for is not the best choice?

BTW, I tend to be partial to Accurate Molds.

[runfiverun]

most double ended wadcutters only have a lube groove in the middle.
because there is no top or bottom.
just lube the bottom one of the many lube grooved boolits. [kinda defeats what you want]
it wouldn't be too hard to modify the 36-148-b mold accurate has to gain the little extra weight and add the central lube groove.

[gefiltephish]

Thanks for the reply. Another reason I don't want so many grooves is that I want them to drop from the mold as easily as possible.

I'm also wondering about the bevel that's usually seen on these. Generally I prefer plain bases, but that's probably from my time with a 450 lubesizer, I now use a star. Still, would it be impractical to have a pb at both ends? These will likely never be fired at anything other than paper at 5-25yds, mostly 5-7 though. Would that just make them a bit more annoying to chamber? Most of those will be loaded as 38's, if not all.

[runfiverun]

the little bevel is just to help them seat easier and straighter.
you have to watch the full depth seating of wad cutters as most cases are thicker at the bottom than the top.
at one time win and fed made special cases for full wad cutters with straight walls.
the 148gr weight helps avoid this issue too it doesn't seat as deep.
the lyman 358091 has two crimp grooves and a little button nose [i use this one]
yes you have three lube grooves.
i just lube the bottom one in my stars.
and seat to the bottom crimp groove area when using 38 cases for my 357's
i have no problems getting them backwards when loading, the little red stripe catches my eye easy nuff and i know that goes down.
plus i can feel the difference when i pick them up so knocking out 3-400 an hour on the 550 is not difficult or even taxing.
i still see every primer,etc.
but you could design the flat base,no crimp groove, or whatever you wanted i'm sure easy nuff.

[GLL]

This is a Group Buy .44 DEWC I ran several years ago. It was a 45 2.1 design in 6-cavity. We also ran a similar version in .38.
Both were popular are very good shooters !
Tom at Accurate Molds could make up a similar design in the weight you prefer.

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/E6D5B6E6A65248B/medium800.jpg

[gefiltephish]

Yeah ^ this is what I had in mind. The bevel is really here nor there since I'm using the star, but I always use an M die with custom plugs so easy seating is a non issue.

I just assumed that the extra weight would extend "above" the crimp grooves at either end. But now I'm wondering if this would necessitate a narrower top band. I imagine in 38 cases in 357 cylinders this doesn't matter, however in 357 cases could this be a problem? Especially so with pb's? That's probably the reason most wadcutters are 148? Would the 10 less grains make that much of a difference in poa vs poi?

I'm not really hell bent on a double ended design, just found the idea intriguing, again out of sheer laziness :mrgreen:

[Forrest r]

For what it’s worth a wc boolit is one of the most versatile, easiest to manipulate & load boolits out there.

Personally I like the wc’s with the multiple lube grooves. Most casters call them lube grooves; I call them multiple crimp grooves. Reloaders either load their wc bullets flush in the cases or in the crimp groove on the button nosed wc’s. I’m not shooting an s&w 52 so I have always extended my wc boolits out & crimped them in the 2nd crimp groove (lube groove) of the bullets.

Extending the wc boolit out further allowed me to mimic my swc loads. I used to shoot the Lyman 358477swc & the h&g #50wc in my 357. They both were close enough in weight that I could use the same powder charge on both. When I set the 2 boolits side by side, the distance from the base of the boolit of the 358477 to its crimp groove was the same distance as the base of the h&g #50’s to its 2nd (middle) lube groove. When I reloaded them I used the same powder, had the same velocities & the same point of aim.

I’ve always extended my wc/hbwc boolits out further in the cases. The cylinders on the revolvers are tapered & I like to extend the boolit out further into the taper of the cylinder for a tighter fit that will cut down on the lead/carbon ring that builds up in the cylinders when the wc’s are seated flush in the case. And it’s easier to find accurate loads when the boolit is centered better in the cylinders & isn’t bouncing side to side until it gets to where the cylinders narrow down.

Some 38spl wc’s loaded/crimped in the 2nd lube groove.

58528

Some cast 44hbwc’s loaded in the 2nd crimp groove. I also cast a 38hbwc & load them the same way, in the 2nd lube groove.

58529

When I test a wc/hbwc boolit I’ll try lubing 1 lube groove, 2 lube grooves, all the lube grooves & tumble lubing the boolits. Then I’ll test load those boolits seated flush, crimped in the 1st lube groove, 2nd lube groove, ect. It takes a little time but I come up with the best lube/powder/oal combo for some highly accurate loads. A picture of a 624 44spl & the target loads I worked up with it using different lube/seating combo’s. I do the same thing with my 38’s to come up with the best load/accuracy I can.

58530

[runfiverun]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?179361-38-Special-brass-bullet-combo-1000-casings-500-bullets
i think these are what you are looking for.

[Willbird]

On a swaged double end WC I would load them either way, but on a CAST one I would still put the sprue end up or down, one way or the other, I would not mix them up :-).

[gefiltephish]

Hmmm...hadn't thought of that.

[Willbird]

They might work fine depending on how they interface with the bullet seater stem.

[gefiltephish]

If I remember correctly, my Hornady seater is of the cone type, so the sprue would not be an issue in this regard. I'll check this when I get home.

[Willbird]

But knowing machines and tolerances I would not count one one end to be exactly like the other, and would not count on the lube groove(s) to be exactly mirror image either. It would be an interesting machine rest experiment though :-).

[gefiltephish]

I can't believe I'm actually considering this, but I may just get a Lee 2 Cav 358-148 WC. I've not been a fan of Lee molds in the past, in fact I've sworn "never again". But this is only 20 bucks and offers a cheap opportunity to try out the multi-grooved design and to see how the lighter bullet shoots in my guns.

Over the past 4 years I recall reading posts about problems with the Lee 2 cav blocks, but I don't recall exactly what those problems are. The new 2 pin design is not available yet in this bullet. What kind of issues will I likely run into? Are they easily fixed? Since I'm only looking at this as an experiment, I'm thinking I should probably not concern myself with it. Or, am I more likely to curse myself for getting another Lee mold?

[OuchHot!]

I just got a new lee mold and while it is the new design, it is the best finished and fitted lee mold I have ever gotten. They may have ramped up QC, or I may have gotten lucky. The one thing about lee is that the sprue plate needs to be lightly deburred before use or it drags divots into the top of the blocks. This is a 2minute operation with a file.

[gefiltephish]

Tom just let me know he added 36-160W to the catalog. He said his tooling requires a beveled nose on wc's.
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-160W-D.png

[runfiverun]

could probably get a 3 cavity easy nuff.

[StrawHat]

...I can't believe I'm actually considering this, but I may just get a Lee 2 Cav 358-148 WC...

Back when I was competing in PPC, I fed a competition diet with a pair of Lee 358-150 DEWC molds. At first I used them just for practice but as my casting technique got better and my scores improved, I used them for both practice and competition. Still have the molds and use them occassionally. I am considering a 6 cavity.

[saintdel]

I used to carry wad cutters ahead of 700x, don't recall now the charge, as a defense load in my 2" det special. With their flat front I figured they were as good or better than a swc. In that 2" bbl they came out around 800fps according to crony. Some guys would load hollow based wc's backwards for what they hoped would be the ultimate low velocity expanding bullet.