Seat/crimp in two steps?

[danski26]

For those of you who seat your pistol boolits in one step then crimp in another step what types of dies are you using? Lee factory crimp? Redding profile crimp? Or other types???

[DanM]

I am not sure why you would need a seperate crimp die. We are talking about straight wall revolver fodder with a roll crimp, right? My Lee or RCBS seaters in .44mag, or .45 colt both put a fine roll crimp on my boolits in one step. Seat and crimp, same die. I do use the extra Lee factory crimp die on most semi auto loads, because I use all mixed brass. I have heard that the LFCD is standard equipment for loading 44-40, but that is not really a straight wall case. I don't know why anyone would use an extra crimp die for a roll crimp on straight wall cases. No doubt there are special applications where one would be needed. Maybe someone will fill us in on that.

[August]

Lee. The factory crimp die automates case checking. Shooting cowboy action, as I do, it is necessary to have this set up to insure that the cartridges will run through the '73 Winchester without a problem. Also, there are all kinds of advantages with consistency and less bullet deformation associated with separating crimping from seating.

[dubber123]

I do it in 2 steps on my .45 A.C.P. loads, for the simple reason that my VERY mixed brass is all different lengths, and using a seperate taper crimp works better than using the crimp function in the regular seating die. My brass varies so much that when adjusted for one brand, it may not even hardly touch others. Works for me. My .475 requires a light taper crimp after regular roll crimping also. Rounds will not chamber without it.

[DanM]

oops....I was thinking pistols only. and yeah, I should have looked at the author before jumping in....

[nicholst55]

IMHO, the Lee factory crimp die is a solution in search of a problem. Many disagree, and they're certainly welcome to. I use the Redding profile crimp die in .45 Colt, and a spare (RCBS) seater die in .44 Mag and .38/.357, simply because I already had them. I also use separate taper crimp dies in 9mm and .45 ACP.

Crimping in a separate operation may or may not technically be necessary, but that's how I do it.

[danski26]

How has the profile crimp die worked for you?

[Old Ironsights]

IMHO, the Lee factory crimp die is a solution in search of a problem. Many disagree, and they're certainly welcome to. I use the Redding profile crimp die in .45 Colt, and a spare (RCBS) seater die in .44 Mag and .38/.357, simply because I already had them. I also use separate taper crimp dies in 9mm and .45 ACP.

Crimping in a separate operation may or may not technically be necessary, but that's how I do it.

I have intermittant case-buckling issues if I try to seat beyond the crimp groove in a one-die/one pass operation.

Don't have the problem with a 2-pass operation though.

[454PB]

I always seat and crimp in separate steps for revolver rounds, it prevents lead shaving and possible deformation. If you think about it, crimping while the boolit is still moving into the case is not desirable. As to die type, for me it doesn't matter. I've used the Lee FCD in some cases, but either way it's done in two operations.

[USARO4]

I seat and roll crimp in one operation on my revolver rounds. I seat and taper crimp in two seperate steps with a Lee FCD on all my pistol rounds. It works for me.

[lead_her_fly]

I seat in two steps in all of my auto rounds. I have a Lee 4 hole turret press so I put the LFCD in the last station. I only use the fourth hole on my revolver cases when I am seating WC at case mouth. I don't have to but it seems to work better that way!
To each his own on this issue.

[Blackwater]

I almost always seat and crimp in a single step, BUT .... I do take a lot of pains in setting the crimp PRECISELY where the case mouth will turn inward into the crimp precisely where it'll go without "bumping" into the top or bottom of the crimp groove, or otherwise causing unusual and unwanted extra pressure. It takes some effort, and occasionally a little determination, to get the die set up just so, but it saves time elsewhere and I like to keep my loading as simple as possible. Not the only way, to be sure. Just my way. And I can't presently recall ever having had any trouble getting the die adjusted so it'll allow this all to happen at once. I may one day, if I buy some bullets or a mould that has a too shallow crimp groove, but .... so far, so good.

[2 dogs]

2 steps. Dillon Dies are the way to go.....

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have tested both ways and found no discernable difference with revolver ammo. Try it yourself and see. With autos, I use Hornady taper crimp dies becasue I have had them for years. The bullet seating and taper crimp can't be done together.

Why add another step without an improvement?

Mick

[BruceB]

There are so many possible combinations of case length, crimp-groove dimensions, dies and presses, and more, that there isn't a one-size-fits-all answer to using one step or two for crimping. A handloader should be prepared to use almost ANY technique in his repertoire to meet the needs of special situations.

In one extreme example, a new set of RCBS .38/.357 dies were giving me fits with bullet-scraping in the seating die. I was using the Dillon 550, and loading 358156 and RCBS 38-150 SWCs. To eliminate the shaving, I now place a .41 Magnum seater die in the #3 station to seat the bullets, and do the crimping in the .38 seater die at station 4. It works perfectly, because the flat-faced .41 seater plug mates nicely with the flat noses of the SWC bullets.

Repeat: IT WORKS, and that's the critical factor.

The rounds I load on the 550 are virtually all seat/crimped in two steps. Circumstances will dictate what method I use on other presses.

If the bullet design has a LONG-enough crimp groove, meaning a fairly-long taper to its final max depth, then roll-crimping can be done rather nicely in one step. The crimp shoulder starts turning-in the mouth of the case as it approaches full seating depth, and if the groove is properly configured, the face of the case mouth won't contact bullet metal until it hits the front of the crimp groove. A short steep groove might see the casemouth turning into the bullet BEFORE it even reaches the back of the groove, and this is a slam-dunk for scraping the bullet.

The profile of the crimping shoulder inside the die also has great bearing on how well the setup works.

Many, many variables, as I said.

[danski26]

Thanks for all the input guys.

[MGD]

I have allways seated and then crimped in a second operation for revolver rounds. I use a lyman M die before seating and prefer a Redding profile crimp die. The Redding die lets me get a heavy crimp that seems to improve accuracy, and I have lower Extreme spreads and Standard Deviations when chronoing.

[lovedogs]

I've always loaded only straight revolver cases such as .357, .44, etc. and do seating and crimping in two seperate operations for reasons already mentioned here. I won't use the Lee Factory Crimp just because I don't want my lead bullets squeezed down in diameter. For example, I want my .44's sized .430 and the Lee squeezes them down to .429. I want mine left fat to reduce the chance of leading.

[fourarmed]

The Redding profile crimp dies I have used form a shallow crimp that looks like a very slight bottleneck. They are especially useful for the cannelures on jacketed bullets. I don't think it has any great advantage for cast, although I do use it in some loads. I use the Lee FCD only when I get a round that won't chamber.