Shotgun WAD

[qwiksting]

I am new, but I have a question for some one of knowledge. I just got my hands on a Stoeger coach gun, 2 triggers. One barrel, choke is Modified, and the other is Improved cylinder. I was thinking of laoding a couple shells today, but noticed the wads I wanted to use would not fit the barrel. I looked at the post where you check the bore of your shotgun with a wad and a slug inserted, and using a wood dowel push the combination of the two into the barrel, shouldnt feel no more than 5 to 7 pounds of pressure while pushing it. Well, I can get either was 12S3,12S4, or a light brush was to fit in the end of the barrel. Then, I thought, hey I have some of that 1/2" felt wad, maybe I can use it. It doesnt fit either. This coach gun Is a 12g, that accepts 3" shells. What Am I doing wrong. Ithought maybe I would try and load some RB, or Buckshot, or hell even buck and ball. Any ideas?

Thanks

[longbow]

How are you trying fit - from muzzle or breech? If from muzzle with a choke then you will not get those wads in easily, they are intended to be pushed through from the chamber.

If you plan on loading solid slug or ball, be sure that the fit of slug/ball (and shotcup if used) is smaller or at least no larger than the tightest choke constriction. Hollow base Foster style slugs are designed to squeeze down if they meet a choke. Round balls and solid slugs are not.

Undersize balls to fit through chokes can be loaded into shotcups or centered in the bore using donut wads or inverted gas seal under the ball.

Longbow

[qwiksting]

Yea I was trying from the muzzle, and it would not. I should probably just stick with undersize RB. .678 and below to .600 then? What about the wad? if it has trouble going through the muzzle wouldn't it have trouble going from Breech end to muzzle when fired? What about this combo: Federal white shell,209a primer, 33grains of HS6,GS ,.125 hard card,2- 1/2"felt wad,cup from light brush wad, .600 RB.

[longbow]

The wads should push through fine from the breech. The chokes will restrict bore diameter by about 0.010" for improved cylinder and about 0.020" for modified so wads that are about bore diameter are not going to fit easily through the chokes from the muzzle... they will squeeze down when shot though and should push through with a dowel fairly easily.

I would go larger than 0.600" RB as it is quite light. 0.662" RB weighs exactly 1 oz. in pure lead but is a bit undersize for shotcups. They do fit into some steel shotcups though.

I am currently waiting on delivery for a 0.678" ball mould and cast up a few 0.662" this evening.

Anything smaller than the choke is fine. If the ball fits into a shotcup and the ball is at or just under choke size then it is probably safe to shoot through a choke but in my experience accuracy will be poor. I find that if the ball/shotcup combo is much over bore (or choke diameter if there is a choke), petals distort or shear and accuracy is not good.

A commonly available mould is 0.690" (Lee and Lyman both make moulds) and sat in an inverted gas seal or brush wad it should stay centered in the bore. Also, 0.690" will fit through most chokes except maybe some full chokes. It will fit into some shotcups but I have had poor results using 0.690" RB for some reason I cannot explain. I have gotten very good results with 0.662" "patched" up to snug in a shotcup and also with 0.735" RB loaded over a hard card wad column.

I can't comment on the load you are asking about without looking through my loading manuals. Where did you get it?

Do you have shotshell (and preferably slug loading) manuals? Not sure if you are aware but you cannot easily work up your own loads like with metallic cartridge guns. Shotshell recipes are developed around the whole set of components and changing any component can effect pressures significantly. Primers and hulls are probably the biggest offenders there. It is best to get published (proven safe) recipes and use those. Slug loading recipes can be difficult to find for many components but it is generally considered safe (I do it) to use equal weigh shot load recipes and substitute a slug. That can also require some fiddling with the wad column. Do not just randomly change hulls, primers or powders though. A simple primer change can raise or lower pressure by 3000 PSI.

I will take a look through my manuals tomorrow to see if I can find a recipe like what you posted. I have never used HS6 so am not familiar with powder charge ranges for it.

Something else you should do is search for VDOmemorie and turbo1889 and read their posts on slug loading. VDOmemorie has lots of info on wad and slug fit in his posts.

Longbow

[qwiksting]

I have the .678 mold, and .690 mold. I got that recipe from vdomemorie in pm. I just wanted to make sure that if I use the 1/2" felt wad, that it would push thru the muzzle ok when being fired. I have the light brush wad from BPI, I just got them, and also 12s3 and 12s4. I am,have been using the Federal shells from BPI (white ones) with a 209a primer, 16 ga hard card and 12g .125 wax hard card. I just got the Gas seal from BPI as well. I am not stuck on Hs6, just what I had on hand at the time. I have some blue dot, and going to get a pound of hogdon clay,Red dot, and longshot. I am just getting started, however, I believe in being prepared. Like you mentioned, mettalic reloading sure is different from shotshell as I am finding out and learning. I have always wanted to be able to load my own shotshell, just like I do with metallic. It just is different with Wads,shot column,shot weight, primers...ect...ect. I really appreciate you chiming in on this topic. I am a sponge absorbing as much as I can. I just may have some dumb questions, but i want to be safe, take no chances. Would you have a
"safe" suggestion with the above components to load a "light" recoil 00 buckshot, 1oz lee key drive slug,690,678,600 RB? Again thank you longbow for your input and anyone else would be appreciated as well. I have successfully test fired 25 shells last weekend with the help of VDOmemorie. The weekend before that I loaded up some "dud" that just went pfftt... There was a guy at the range, probably 50 feet from me and looked after i shot it, and i told him it was a "silenced 12 g round" :)

[longbow]

Okay, if Ajay has provided a load it will be safe.

I will take a look when I get time tomorrow to check on components and loads to see if I can match up with what you have.

When I started slug loading a few years ago I got quite frustrated because I live in a reloading desert ~ little to no reloading supplies locally until recently. I used to drive to Washington State to buy components but Homeland Security and ATF have taken care of that now ~ non US citizens cannot leave the country with ammunition or reloading components! It is legal to bring the stuff into Canada but not legal to take it out of the States.

Even then selection was limited to I could seldom get all the components for a given recipe. I settled on Fiocchi hulls and Blue Dot for powder. I bought several reloading manuals, got info from powder manufacturer's sites, ordered reloading info from BPI, bought the BPI shotshell reloading handbook and their slug loading manual. Overall, the best I have is Reloading for Shotgunners which generally lists several different powder charges for each powder along with pressures. I also got hold of primer info so I knew what primer equivalents were and safe substitutions. I also cross check several sources before making any substitutions and use a known low pressure load.

So far, most of my heavy loaded or loads for heavy slugs have been with Blue Dot and I have found it very good. I was told by a very experienced slug shooter that IMR4756 is a better powder so I picked up a couple of pounds recently and have some loaded but have not shot them yet.

I have shot a variety of slugs from commercial moulds and home made moulds as well as several types of commercial slugs. So far my good round ball loads are as good as the best slug loads to at least 50 yards and better than most slug loads to 50 yards. I have about given up on hollow base Foster designs and have gone to Brenneke style attached wad slugs with good success so far to 50 yards but I have not shot them further. I got sidetracked with developing loads for my .303's a while ago and have not gotten back to the slugs.

I am just cycling back now and have bought Lee Drive key slug mould to try and have some loaded. I also loaded up a couple of different types of slugs and will load up some round balls too for comparison. I have RB moulds in 0.662", 0.690", 0.715" and 0.735". I have had very good results with 0.662" and 0.735". Also, since 0.678" is about perfect fit for most shotcups, I have one of those coming.

I got to rambling here. I also have the BPI Buckshot manual so will look for your components there. If you want a light load for 00 buck, you can substitute equal weight of 00 buck for birdshot and use the birdshot recipe. You might have to play with the wad column to get the volume for buckshot though.

What you should do is to get your self the Lyman Shotshell Reloading manual (I have three editions), Reloading for Shotgunners (available through BPI) and check powder manufacturer's loads then collect the hulls and other components to suit those loads. Generally the best hulls for slug and buckshot use are the large volume straight walled hulls like Fiocchi, Federal, Activ, Cheddite. Some load recipes even say to use "any straight walled hull". Even so, I still cross reference to be sure nothing looks out of place.

Yeah, if a load doesn't generate enough pressure you can get a pffft! Some powders are picky and just won't burn well if the charge is too light or not a heavy enough payload. All the components work together. Some component changes can raise or lower pressures in an undesirable way.

I will see what I can find for loads for you and I will let you know what has worked for me. I may get out shooting tomorrow but I kind of doubt it. more likely next weekend. I have Lee Drive Key slugs loaded over IMR4756 right now and will likely use it for the 0.662" and 0.678" RB's (if that mould ever arrives!). I will let you know how the Lee's work.

Out of all of the slugs I have shot, I have not shot any Lee Drive Key slugs or Lyman sabot slugs. Two of the more common slugs around and I haven't tried them yet. I decided I didn't want to spend the money on the Lyman sabot slug mould because I have read that it becomes unstable at transonic velocity from smoothbores (I am shooting smoothbores) and I have recovered Lyman sabot slugs others have shot and they do what every other hollow base slug I have recovered has done... collapsed the skirt considerably. I made a mould to make thick skirted hollow base slugs to try to solve that but still had to oven heat treat to keep the skirts from collapsing. We will see how the Lee does.

Anyway, rambling again.

I will post some load info if I can find it for your components.

Longbow

[qwiksting]

I understand about the manual, i bought lymans 5th ed last nite off amazon. I have been going to Hogdons website, there is a reloading table I often refrence for metallic shell reloading, and I have used them a small amount for shotshell, looking at different loads ext. Its just not as inclusive I guess as Lymans manual (I hope). I have to cast some more lead anyway, so I wont be able to get to the reloading part till next week or so. Again, thanks a million for your input.

[longbow]

Unfortunately, the Lyman manuals change over time in what loads they list and not just due to powder or other components becoming obsolete. I have 3 editions of the Lyman manual and only one has recipes for round balls. Mind you, I load round balls to equal weight slug loads with no problems.

In fact most of the manuals I have really have very limited slug load info in each it is just that they are all different as well so I get the variety that way. They all have LOTS of birdshot info but not so much for slug and buckshot.

If you have good access to reloading supplies, not really a big deal ~ just go buy stuff to match the recipe. In my case, not so easy so a variety of choices is good!

Anyway, I will look through the books later.

Longbow

[qwiksting]

Thanks for the information...

[longbow]

Some info is on its way to you.

I have asked BPI about reloading info for these hulls as I do not have anything for the Federal clear hull.

Longbow

[qwiksting]

Thank you sir, i got you PM...

[longbow]

I finally got a response and some loading data from BPI. Not what I had hoped for but it is something.

They specifically state that these are not Federal Gold Medal hulls but do not mention any equivalent hull for which loading data can be used.

They did send me a sheet of load data for shot loads. Of course these could be used fro equivalent weight slug/buckshot loads but they would not be high performance loads. I have attached the loading data sheet.

I have asked if they have slug and buckshot data or if there are load recipes for an equivalent hull that can be used in these. As you are probably aware, having a large variety of load recipes makes life much easier when component supplies are limited. I often find that powders listed in BPI recipes are not locally available... in fact not much is locally available where I live so large variety and selection is the key for me.

Ah! I should also say that the number of the data does not match the BPI number for the hulls listing and it says they are maroon, not white. However, I included their web page in my e-mail and this was what they sent back.

Anyway, it is a start.

Longbow

[cajun shooter]

The Federal Gold Medal Hull is a paper hull that is loaded for the trap shooters. At least the ones I have used are. I have shot many of them and they are still available for purchase.
The Stoger shotgun will chamber and fire any type of shell it is loaded with. Many a person uses them in the SASS matches.
All shotguns are only choked at the very end of the barrel, maybe the last 2 1/2 inches or so. That is true with screw in and fixed choked guns.
I don't quite understand why you are trying to fit your wad into the barrel as it is intended to fit your hull.
I do undestand you wanting to know more about the shotgun and they have tons of information in many books that you may read.
The internet also has tons of info but not all of it is correct. I shoot black powder in all my guns and some will say that you can't use plastic wads if using BP. That is a bunch of false info that is put out by a person who is only repeating what he heard or read on the net.
Go to Amazon and see if a book by the name of the American shotgun is available or one like it. I prefer to have a book as you may go back to any section to brush up some or reread what you have forgot. Take Care David

[longbow]

The OP is wanting smokeless loads for round ball and buckshot. While buckshot will squeeze through a tight choke, a bore sized round ball will not likely without damaging the gun. A round ball in a shotcup should slide reasonably easily through the barrel for cylinder bore or be about the same diameter as the tightest choke constriction. Fit of slug or slug/wad to bore does matter for slug/round ball shooting.

Federal makes Gold Medal hulls in plastic and there are specific loading recipes for different types of hulls when using smokeless powder. They are not universal like with BP loads and changes in hull or primer can cause large changes in pressure.

Longbow