Reloading for the 357 Auto Mag Pistol (AMP) Which reloader's manuals?

[ohland]

Folks, what reloading manuals covered the 357 AMP? True, the case is rimless, with a head diameter of .476-ish. But what is the case volume? Hoping that a similar form to the 357/44 B&D will result in similar velocities (and pressures!). My Bain and Davis is in a 22" (measured it) Encore, so I rather think that 50Kpsi won't destroy it. Too fast....

:coffee:

[ohland]

Hmm, Speer #9 supposedly has 44 and 357 AMP.

[ohland]

Handloader #53, Jan-Feb 1975.
"Loading the .357 Auto Mag", by George Nonte
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/hl53partial.pdf

Forming 44 AMP cases (used to form 357 AMP!)
Handloader, Sep-Oct 1974

[ironhead7544]

Once built up a 357 AMP M1 carbine. WW296 worked best. The Speer manual listed above has loads. I think Starline has 44 AMP cases. Easier to make those into 357 AMP than from 308 sizes cases.

[357Mag]

Ohland -

Howdy !

+1 on what Ironhead said.

WW296 ( H110 same stuff ) grouped best in my .357AutoMag 22" carbine. It also peformed/performs best in all the 4,5; and 6" .357Mag "N"-frames I used it in.

IMHO:
From what I've read, .357 B & D and .357AutoMag are about head-to-head on case capacity.
F.W.I.W: My WW296 loads in an H & R SB2 .357Max ALSO were the same as those for same bullet wt(s) in the 'AutoMag carbine.
Perhaps a " sweet spot " for .35 calibre in 3 seperate cartridges ??. Hmmm....

Once you venture North of 20gr WW296 under 150-180gr bullets with either the B & D or .357AutoMag, I'd be sure to do charge increases in small increments; and check carfefully for ( excess ) pressure signs.

With regards,
357Mag

[429421Cowboy]

I have a copy of P.O Ackleys Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders with a multitude of .357-44 wildcat rounds, if you find the case capacity that matches an old round i will gladly look it up for you if it helps with a start load.

[lar45]

Quickload shows the capacity for the 357 AMP at 35gns H2O, the 357-44 B&D is 33 and the 357 Max is 33.6 The AMP shows a lower pressure at 37k with the Max at 48k.

FWIW

[ohland]

http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/310/357-44_Bain_Davis/357-44_Bain_and_Davis.html

Outdated link
http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/310/357-44_Bain_Davis/357_44%20Bain%20&%20Davis%20%28B&D%29.html

[ohland]

multitude of .357-44 wildcat rounds

OK, which wildcats? Right now the wildcats with similar configuration to the 357 B&D are the ones of interest.
44 Mag brass or similar size
Bottleneck, either a traditional shoulder or a tapered design
9mm or 357 diameter bullet

So right now, there are three cartridges of interest:
357/44 B&D
357/44 Bobcat
357 Auto Mag Pistol (AMP)

Case capacity is roughly 33 to 35.

[ohland]

So 23 grains of W296 under a 158 grain bullet might be considered stout? Makes a nice crack when it comes out @2100.

[Two Old Dogs]

Donnelly in The Handloaders Manual Of Cartridge Conversions lists tlhe following:

.357 AMP Case capacity: 2.26 cc's or 34.94 Gr's water.

.357/44 Bain and Davis Case capacity: 2.166 cc's or 33.43 Gr's water.

The 13th edition of Cartridges Of The World lists limited loading data for the .357AMP; earlier editions listed data for the .357/44 B&D.

[357Mag]

Ohland -

Howdy !

In my 22" .358" cal SS Scherer 5-groove 1-16 chambered in .357AutoMag, my best loads were:

- 24.2gr WW296 under Rem .358" calibre 150PSP and SP Mag primer

- 22.0gr H110 and Sierra .35 calibre 180gr

In my gun ( " carbine " ) these loads were super accurate, while just fine on pressure.

As stated before, this sounds similar to .357 B & D stuff.

With regards,
357Mag

[Porterhouse]

Bullet seating depth changes the case volume thus pressure. You should always watch out for this.

[ohland]

I just posted some pics under "More B&D foolishness (158gr XTP and 140gr FTX)", advanced search didn't bring it up, so the thread is http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?176958

The Encore looks to have a long throat. BUT... for those with revolvers, the cylinder is only so long. The revolver throats are probably much less. The Hornady Handloading Manual has an OAL of 1.580, and these loaded rounds FOR THE ENCORE are 1.864 in OAL. So for those with a short chamber, you will get more intrusion into the case body, and thus, higher pressures. Just because an Encore with a long chamber can swallow these OALs, DOES NOT MEAN the S&W 28 or Ruger Blackhawk (or whatever revolver) can as well...

58749

[ohland]

http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/310/357-44_Bain_Davis/357-44_Bain_and_Davis.html

Scanned and uploaded the Speer Number 9 pages for the 357 AMP and 44 AMP. Grafs shows the brass and nickle 44 AMP cases in stock, YMMD.

Its easier by far to take 44 AMP cases and size them down instead of forming 357 AMP brass from 243 / 308 / .473 headsize cases....

[ohland]

Quickload shows the capacity for the 357 AMP at 35gns H2O, the 357-44 B&D is 33 and the 357 Max is 33.6 The AMP shows a lower pressure at 37k with the Max at 48k. FWIW

Does Quickload have Alliant 300-MP in it yet? I'm sorta half buttock guessing a start load on the low end for a 158gr JHP to be about 18 grains of 300-MP.

As has been said before, "Do tell"...

[ohland]

Alliant responded, they have no data for the 357/44 B&D. I had to try.

Still waiting for load suggestions for 300-MP...