Bad Lee C312-155-2R mold

[VintageRifle]

I received my Lee C312-155-2R bullet mold two days ago. Got it cleaned up and smoked. Cast a few bullets and didn't notice this until after about 20 bullets.

At first I thought it was due to a cold mold. However, it did not go away. Check the mold cavities and found they are not at all cut correctly.

http://www.buckeyecarnivores.com/vintagerifles/BadLeeMold/BadLee312155BulletMold.jpg

http://www.buckeyecarnivores.com/vintagerifles/BadLeeMold/BadLeeC312-155-2RCavity.jpg

http://www.buckeyecarnivores.com/vintagerifles/BadLeeMold/BadLeeC312-155-2RCavityFull.jpg

The mold was too hot and you can see lead in the vent lines.

[Blammer]

wow! that's some good photography there!

[Johnch]

:holysheep :holysheep

That looks to be about the same workmanship as some of our latest Group Buys

I would call Lee on it

John

[Ben]

That puppy needs to head back to Lee ! !

Ben

[Bret4207]

That puppy needs to head back to Lee ! !

Ben

Agree.

[38-55]

Wow !!!!
Looks like their tooling could use some work or maybe a chimp to clean the chips out of the set up !!! There is just no way any self respecting machinist would let that out the door !!! Even the most cursory visual inspection should of caught that..
Sad.
Calvin

[VintageRifle]

I ordered this mold from graf and sons. I contacted them about the problem on Friday night. Will not expect a reply for a few more days.

If I send it back to graf's I may end up with another bad mold. However, I may try to exchange it for the CTL312-160-2R mold so I can be somewhat assured I would get a mold that was cut with a good cherry.

However, I bought this mold for use with 7.62x39 SKS, but have read that by sizing it down to .308 it will work very well in the Swiss K31 which is why I finally broke down and bought it. I believe the CTL312-160-2R would also work well and it may work better with the lube I am using.

I am going to send LEE the same images I posted here and see what they say. I would rather pay to send the mold back to Graf's for exchange, but then Graf's has to send the mold back to LEE for an exchange. If I send it back to LEE, it only has to be shipped once and I will be letting LEE know that I am not very happy about the quality of this mold.

[John F.]

Lee has poor quality because Lee has poor quality control, because Lee is NOT MOTIVATED to have good QC.

If you send it back to Grafs and they send it back, you bring heat on them from 2 sources: Graf and you.

If Graf gets enough returns, they will have to talk to Lee about the problem, and in an extreme case could drop their account or severely scale back the moulds they stock.

Who is more likely to get Lee's attention? 1 customer out in "wherever," who they obviously are not currently motivated to please, or a large customer that buys a tremendous amount of merchandise from them?

Were it me, I'd send it back to Grafs and if they have to eat shipping, it won't kill them, but it might help your cause.

Hope this helps,
John

[exblaster]

Who is more likely to get Lee's attention? 1 customer out in "wherever," who they obviously are not currently motivated to please, or a large customer that buys a tremendous amount of merchandise from them?
good point John
Exblaster

[jeff223]

WOW that sucks to say the least:groner:

send that mold back to Lee.maybe after a few more months they will have your mold back to you with another new one.my Ranch Dog mold deal is still in the works but im sure Lee will have it right on their third try[smilie=p:

[38-55]

Jeff223,
Hey man, don't know if this is the place to say this or not so please let me know iff'n I'm outta line... I'm waiting on 2 group buy molds at the moment myself.. I've been following what's been going on on your 35 rd buy. It sucks to be sure but I'm really impressed that lee is even making a third run ! They've already screwed themselve out of any possibility of any profit on that deal but they are still going to try and make things right. In my limited experience in the machining industry that is really a classy thing they are trying to do to make things right ! Yeah, they should of gotten it right the first time or the very least the second time but to make a third run just to make 40 or so people happy is simply outstanding ! My hat is off to them.
Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread..
Calvin

[44man]

I don't know why, but I only got 3 boxes with an X in them.

[dubber123]

44man, I'm no techie genius, but maybe the pictures were too big for your computer to digest? If you can't ever get the pics downloaded, let me assure you they were excellent pics,....of a crappy mold.

[VintageRifle]

Well, I send the mold back. Got a replacement back in 4 days. However, I only now got to actually cast with it. All I can say is DANGIT! The point of the bullets are still stepped. The body is much improved and looks normal. However, those tips are still stepped. I have to wait for my wife to return the digital camera to take pictures. Will be at a shoot this weekend and will show some of the casters who show up what they think. Going to try and shoot a few.

I am a very green newbie here. This weekend will be my first attempt at shooting cast bullets.

[JohnH]

I bought the same mold this week, cast some yesterday, shot ten rounds today from an M44 Mosin Nagant and the boolit shot fine. Yeah it has a funny wrinkle at the nose, just like you show, though no pitting in the mold chamber.

I've been shooting the Lee 312-185 in both the Nagant and a Savage 340 with very good results. I had to send that mold back to Lee because the nose was undersize, .296 they made it .300 no questions asked.

So long as the 312-155 will shoot for me as well, I've no complaints. In your first post you say you checked the "mold cavities" I take it this is a double cavity mold, mine is as well, that means they are both this years production. My 312-185 is a single cavity however.

All in all, the only molds I've used in the last two years that I"ve had nothing bad to say about are RCBS. I bought the Lee 312-155 because it is known for casting oversize, mine is throwing .315 boolits, perfect for my .314 groove diameter Mosin Nagant and Chinese SKS. I bought it mainly for the SKS, if the boolit will shirink the group size this rifle throws to 2" I'll be happy.

[VintageRifle]

Here is a photo of how the replacement mold casts. May try the 160 gr bullet mold next just to see if I will get something better.

Glad to hear it shoots well despite the flaws. I hope these do.

[9.3X62AL]

VR--

That photography ROCKS.

[JohnH]

What are you going to be shooting them in?

Cast bullets are far more forgiving than one might suspect. I find it no big thing to get 2" out of bullets that are seperated for gross visual defects only (obvious cold wrinkles, voids, bases that are slightly rounded, and raised sprue cutoffs), any thing else I shoot. Depending on severity, I will even shoot mildly rounded bases edges (so long as the bulelt gets a gas check) and I will shoot slightly raised sprue cutoffs as well. I've shot enough known bad bullets into groups to prove to my satisfaction that for general plinking fun, if it looks decent, it'll shoot decent.

As to misshapen noses, most soft point cup and core bullets exhibit as much sometimes more deformation than what is in the pictures. Barrel quality, rifle/load compatibility, how the bullet fits the throat and groove diameter of of the barrel have as much, possibly more to do with how the gun shoots cast than minor flaws of the nose.

I had an Encore Stainless 375 JDJ barrel that would not shoot cast reliably for beans. I put over 1000 rounds of the Lyman 379449 through it just to prove it. It would put Hornadys .375 220 FP into neat 5 shot cloverleafs all day. I traded that barrel for a 25-06 barrel. Seems that no one can get Encore 25-06 barrels to shoot, but this one, with cast, will shoot 1 1/4" - 1 1/2" all day. I took it on a prairie dog shoot this spring and was whacking dogs at 150-180 yards with it. (RCBS 257120) I was hitting as well as my buddy with an AR 15 set up for doggie shutzen that particular day.

Most of us that have been around this game a while have bought or been given molds that were rusted beyond recognition. Some tender loving restoring care brought 'em back to life. Years ago I was shooting a Lyman 200 grainer for a 45 Colt that cast bullets that looked sandblasted. Bullets shot fine and gave no leading.

Shoot some see how they do for ya. You'll prolly be surprised. None of that should be taken as taking up for LEE. Their quality sucks. I consider their molds consumables. It is an inexpensive product that lets a fella like me that is short on cash shoot. (Just like the rest of their product line) They are cheap enough that I can buy one to see if I can even get a rifle to shoot, and if so, I can either invest in a higher quality product or simply buy another Lee when I wear one out.

[44man]

Hob gobblins, I just opened it again and have beautiful pictures of the bad mold. I have had to send a lot of Lee molds back and they have sent me new ones. I don't understand how they make a profit at all. They must spit those things out of a machine by the millions and they are all over the floor, etc. They can't be inspecting any of them, they just get stuck in a box by a machine. Maybe it only costs them 30 cents a mold so they don't care.

[MT Chambers]

the flaws on the tip of that bullet would be taken care of by the top punch in my way of doin' things.

[VintageRifle]

I will be able to shoot some of these bullets on Oct. 6, 2007.

After reading some posts on the K31, I bought this mold as it will be used for 7.62x39 and sized down to .309 for use in the K31. So far I can chamber a round without having it shave off any lead or push the GC past the case neck in the K31 when sized to .309.

Silly me sized my entire batch to .309 and forgot about sizing some for .314 (my sizer actually puts them at .315).

I will be trying 16gr 2400 and slowly work up unless these shoot well as-is. I will be taking my reloading equipment with me so I can do some of the work up on sight.

[VintageRifle]

Well, Oct. 6th has come and gone. Due to some unfortunate events, I was not able to go shooting.

However, I did get to test some of these bullets today. I setup at about 25 yds and fired 4 shots just to see if they would lead up the barrel. No problem noted and they did group OK and to the right. This rifle has not been fired other than to test it a few months ago with some not so good J bullet loads. I picked this one up as a very rusty project gun only because the bore was still mint. Didn't turn out too bad external either.

Setup a target upside down and fired 5 shots prone. Sight set at 300 meters with a normal hold on the center of the target. 5 shot group was 1-1/8 inches wide by 3/8 inches high. I do not think this is bad. I even got two rounds to make one hole.

One of the unfortunate events was that I had to leave home quickly and 4 different people helped remove my shooting items and gun collection. During this quick move, my reloading notes in my cartridge boxes were removed for some reason. I am guessing nosey people not understanding what the notes ment. So, this nice group I got my have been from a 16gr charge or a 18 gr charge of old hercules 2400. I will just have to start over again. I will most likely have to use new 2400 as my old cardboard 8lb container of 2400 was taken to a barn for storage which is not where I wanted it to go.

Bore measurements for this K31:
Lands: .296"
Grooves: .3075"

Bullets sized to .310 with a Lee .309 sizer. Been getting .001 larger from the Lee sizers. May try a .308 sizer to see if it helps or makes any difference at all.

Found a scribbled note saying 16gr of Hercules 2400 for these. Will have to measure the OAL when I get the chance. I very much enjoyed the results. This was much better than my 4 inch groups with a 185 gr bullet in my No4 Mk1* Savage Enfield on its first cast bullet outing.

[ssn vet]

CTL312-160-2R

C312=155=2R

looks like they gained 5 grains when they changed the profile to make the grooves shallow for tumble lubing with alox.

both are Harris designs

both look like that have the same ogive.

Will tumble lubing with Liquid Alox give satisfactory results with the 155 mold?

If I don't like using Alox, will I be able to get good results pan lubing with the 160?

decisions, decisions....

I'm a total newb and don't have money to burn on buying the wrong stuff.

[VintageRifle]

I am a newbie to bullet casting as well. I have cast bullets for my Savage Enfield No4 Mk1* with two groove barrel and so far I have not gotten tight groups. I believe this was due to not using enough powder as I did not get tumbling or leading in my oversized bore.

The C312-155-2R mold was purchased for use in the SKS and also as a possibility for the K31. Somewhere I read that the C312-155-2R worked very well in the K31 when sized down to .308 as it is short enough not to put the gas check in the boiler room of the case. Mine are seated with just a bit of the check in the boiler room. I will have to measure to see just how much.

I was expecting poor accuracy my first time out. I also expected lead blowback from my .310 bullets being shaved off, but I did not see any signs of this. I also did not use hearing protection as I had planned on just checking 2-3 rounds to see what they would do and figured they would not be that loud. Turns out they are not loud enough to cause me to have a problem for the 10 rounds I shot. However, I will be using hearing protection from now on just to protect my ears anyway.

I also noticed that the K31 and Hercules 2400 does not produce the smoke that 16gr of 2400 in my Enfield No4 did. I expected to see a puff of smoke.

I use the Lee 7.5x55 die set.

GP11 Brass with PMC Berdan Primer.