Lyman quality control is still lacking

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

I recently got a new Lyman 452374 in the single cavity hollow point and after casting with it today, surprise surprise, it casts undersized boolits, a .452 sizing die doesn't even touch the boolit. AND to top it all off, the hollow point pin is poorly fitted so I got flashing sticking off the tip of every boolit.

I know some members here have recently purchased new Lyman molds that cast the proper sized boolits, but I did not have similar luck, so beware.

[captain-03]

I will not buy another Lyman mold ....

[MtGun44]

Is Lyman currently making HP molds? I thought they dropped them years ago.

Bill

[SP5315]

Check out some of the group buys. For a few bucks more than a new Lyman you could have a multiple cavity mould that is a work of art.

[41 mag fan]

I recently got a new Lyman 452374 in the single cavity hollow point and after casting with it today, surprise surprise, it casts undersized boolits, a .452 sizing die doesn't even touch the boolit. AND to top it all off, the hollow point pin is poorly fitted so I got flashing sticking off the tip of every boolit.

I know some members here have recently purchased new Lyman molds that cast the proper sized boolits, but I did not have similar luck, so beware.

You'll find out thru previous threads, theres been alot of complaints over the last 5 or so yrs about the quality of Lyman molds falling far short of satisfactory. They're quality is just about as bad a Lee 2 cav molds are IMO.
Spend the extra few dollars if you can and go with one from NOE, Miha or Accurate. Once you get one of these in your hands, if you've never bought from them before, you'll wonder why you ever diddled with Lyman or lee

[Longone]

I admit I rolled the dice when I recently bought a Lyman 356402 4 cavity but from the very first keepers to the end of the session it cast round boolits with #2 Lyman alloy that were sized to .356" without issue. Lucky, most likely. I have also gotten undersized molds from Lyman even when using #2 which is what Lyman claims their molds are cut for.

Longone

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

Is Lyman currently making HP molds? I thought they dropped them years ago.

Bill

Yes, they currently make 2, one in .452 and .356, the "Devastator" HP.

[cbrick]

Is Lyman currently making HP molds? I thought they dropped them years ago. Bill

I beleive they still make the Devastator in .357" - .430" - .452".

Lyman many years ago would HP any of their molds for an additional fee but dropped that service long ago. I have 311410 that was listed as PB or BB but not catalogued as HP, mine was HP'd by Lyman many years ago. The Lyman pin is a very loose fit, leaks alloy around the nose and for my liking is much too long (deep). I had Erik remove the BB and make a new shorter pin. The new pin fits perfectly and the mold casts great except for that pesky single cavity thing. Guess I'm just spoiled by the Miha Cramer 4 cavs.

Rick

[Willbird]

How did you clean the mold before the first use ?? Did you have to smoke it ?? If so smoking makes a mold drop smaller bullets in my experience.

Not saying the Lyman is a good mold....but it is worth trying a deep clean with dish soap and hot water if you did not already do so, and try to get it to run without smoking if you had to smoke it. I have not bought a new Lyman mold in years.

[Larry Gibson]

I made on offer regarding such in the past. The offer still stands if you are interested in taking me up on it.

My offer;

Send me the mould and I will test it by casting. If the mould does not cast to nominal diameter with a proper alloy and casting technique I will buy the mould for what you paid + the shipping to me. You can then go the custom route with the funds.

If the bullet does cast to nominal diameter I will return it to you with test bullets, the alloy specifics and the casting technique used andI will pay the shipping back to you.

Thus you have only the shipping to me to lose if the mould does cast to nominal diameter. If the mould does not cast to nominal diameter I am stuck with it and you get all your money back. What say you?

Larry Gibson

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

Well that is an interesting offer Mr. Gibson, but the mold is already on its way back, but if the 452460 I took a chance on, that I will get tomorrow, has similar problems, I will consider. May I ask why you are willing to do this?

And no, I did not smoke it, and never have smoked an iron mold.

[cbrick]

nocturnal,

My 452460 cast COWW +2% tin right at .452" and it's 3-4 years old. It's ok in my Springfield Armory 45 because the barrel slugs at .4515". My Lachmiller 45-200 3 cav drops the same alloy at .454". These two boolits are near identical and one is no doubt a clone of the other, I don't know which one came first.

My 452374 casts the same alloy at .4525" and this one is about 5 years old.

That's no guarantee yours will cast .452" of course. What does your bore slug at? Anyway, the point of all this is I'm curious to see what your 452460 casts at.

Rick

[Larry Gibson]

Well that is an interesting offer Mr. Gibson, but the mold is already on its way back, but if the 452460 I took a chance on, that I will get tomorrow, has similar problems, I will consider. May I ask why you are willing to do this? .......

Simply because I have heard all these complaints about Lyman moulds casting undersize and have yet to see one. I have had several sent to me for testing (as redently as last year gearnasher sent me one) and have yet to find one that would not cast to nominal diameter with an alloy that the mould was designed for of an alloy with sufficient tin in it. Most claims of undersized bullets from Lyman moulds were when using WWs. Simply by adding 2% tin to COWWs I found all would cast at least to nominal diameter and usuall .001 - .002 larger. I haven't had to buy any "undersize" Lyman moulds so I'm still looking for the 1st. I've probably had 200+ Lyman moulds go through my hands including the numerous ones I've bought in the last few years.

Larry Gibson

[Willbird]

In today world I would presume Statistical Process Control (SPC) is done on the process using a Coordinate Measuring Machine(CMM) to check the mold blocks at some pre determined frequency. Once you have proven the process with the tool one could use use gage pins on the base band and have a good idea what the rest of the cavity will check.

With Lee we have seen them using an oddball alloy(one different than most group users use) to prove out molds...now we hear they are using cerrosafe....which may be better overall to at least get the same result every time...coupled with an optical comparator I could see that working out. You can use an overlay on the screen with all the tolerances and mean dimensions drawn out.

Bill

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

Most claims of undersized bullets from Lyman moulds were when using WWs. Simply by adding 2% tin to COWWs I found all would cast at least to nominal diameter and usuall .001 - .002 larger.

That may be so, but it seems like they are cutting close, ALL of my molds, including my older lyman/ideal molds, cast .001-.002 oversize with straight COWW. If new lyman molds require the extra tin added to COWW to cast to the stated diameter, then I'd imagine they are problematic when using alloys that don't have antimony, as antimony aids in preventing the boolit from shrinking as it cools, so I'd imagine an alloy 1:30 tin:lead would have the same problems. I guess what I'm saying is that I see a problem with a mold that will, only with a certain alloy, cast only to nominal diameter, with no room for sizing.

[Willbird]

The old Lyman/Ideal were notorious for dropping HUGE bullets weren't they ?? If you grabbed 100 bullet casters at random (not just from here) and had them bring ingots of their favorite alloy I wonder what you would end up with ??

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

Well I got a new 452460 today and the boolits are dropping at exactly .452, which works, but It'd be nice if they dropped slightly larger so that when I run them through my LAM2 they have obviously been swaged to the right size.

[41 mag fan]

What are you sizing them to? If you're needing them to be .452 when lubed there'd be no need to size them down.

[cbrick]

Well I got a new 452460 today and the boolits are dropping at exactly .452, which works, but It'd be nice if they dropped slightly larger so that when I run them through my LAM2 they have obviously been swaged to the right size.

Depending on your bore slug .452" could be fine. Yours is casting the same as mine so the alloys must similair.

Nothing wrong with lubing without sizing, I do it whenever it's possible but again, it depends on your bore slug.

Rick

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

What are you sizing them to? If you're needing them to be .452 when lubed there'd be no need to size them down.

Right, but since my lubing them in a lube sizer, I run each one through a .452 die to lube the boolit.