First loads...need advice

[Giggidy]

Hi everyone. I casted up my first boolits a week or so ago (.365 out of a Lee mold for my CZ82). They came out .366 and my barrel slugged at .363. I know that with cast I need to at least be .001 over what my barrel slugs out at, and I've read in a variety of sources that good accuracy can be had with even .003 over what a barrel slugs out at. So, I planned to load up some of pills, as cast, and hit the range tomorrow to test them out. I made a dummy round first to make sure they would function in the mag and chamber. No problems with the mag and chambering...sort of. The dummy round chambered, but was pushed back into the case about .03. Any thoughts on what problems this might present would be welcome.

Other information that might be relevant:
I'm loading trimmed 9mm Luger brass and will be loading over 2.4 grains of Titegroup (I haven't found cast data for this round with Titegroup so I'm using .380 data as a starting point). I used one of the cast boolits to slug my barrel a few days ago and it didn't seem to present issues (I didn't have to channel the Incredible Hulk to get it through...it had about the same resistance as when I used a fishing weight to slug it the first time).

I appreciate your thoughts/advice.

[blackthorn]

NO< NO< NO--dont load pills in those cases!!! Swallow pills (unless they are supositorys)--Load boolits/bullets! LOL

Welcome aboard!

Seriously, I would be REAL cocerned with a 0.030 set-back, especially in a 9mm due to the reduction in case (already small) interior volume and the resulting pressure increase. Be safe

[MtGun44]

Increase your taper crimp. You are TCing with a separate die, right? Pushback is not
a safe thing. You should be able to take a loaded or dummy cartridge and push the
boolit HARD against the edge of your bench and get ZERO change in LOA.

Bill

[Giggidy]

I don't have a separate crimping die, but I'm pretty sure the crimp is the issue...I think I flubbed setting up the seating die. Will adjust everything tomorrow morning and see how it goes. Thanks for the feedback.


Increase your taper crimp. You are TCing with a separate die, right? Pushback is not
a safe thing. You should be able to take a loaded or dummy cartridge and push the
boolit HARD against the edge of your bench and get ZERO change in LOA.

Bill

[MikeS]

You really should be taper crimping as a separate step when loading lead boolits. Most die makers also make separate taper crimping dies, and you can get one from Lee for under $10.00 (a Lee TAPER CRIMP die, NOT the Factory Crimp die!!!). The problem with crimping as you're seating the boolit is that the crimping is pushing the case into the side of a moving boolit, and that can raise a ring of lead in front of the crimp which can keep the cartridge from fully going into battery (actually it keeps the slide from going into battery). When you crimp as a separate step the boolit isn't moving in relation to the case as the side of the case is pressed into the boolit, so there's no problem with raising a ring of lead.

If you're like me, and want to load some rounds NOW, you can always load them without crimping during the seating process, and then once you've loaded them all, you can reset the seating die to only crimp and run the cartridges back thru the seating die to properly crimp them.

[Jal5]

I agree run the TC step separately and you should be ok.

Fun to trim several hundred of 9mm Luger to 9mm Mak!! Been there myself.

[375RUGER]

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

the link to hodgdon's load data, you will find 9x18 data here

[Wayne Smith]

You don't have a caliper to measure OAL?? If you can measure OAL you can tell if your die is set right.

[Giggidy]

I have calipers to measure length. The dummy round was the appropriate length but when I chambered it in my gun, the bullet was pushed back into the case. I've been on the Hodgdon site also, but they only provide data for jacketed in 9x18 with titegroup. The two Lyman manuals I have also lack cast data for titegroup so it seemed starting with the 380 load would be the best thing (if this is an incorrect assumption please let me know...these are the first cast loads I've done and also the first loads for the Mak that I've done).

The issue that I am now running into is that if I set up the seating die as directed without the seating plunger/head/whatever its called in order to get a decent crimp, it pushes the bullet into the case also without the plunger (I had backed the die out more than I should have with the dummy round last night, which is why the crimp was pretty much nonexistent). Either the seating die is not designed to accommodate a .366 bullet or the die is out of spec. I'm going to call this a dismal failure and learning experience, scrap everything and go back to square one. Going to check with Lee and ask about the seating die to see if the bullet is too large or if I got a bad die.

[blackthorn]

“I have calipers to measure length. The dummy round was the appropriate length but when I chambered it in my gun, the bullet was pushed back into the case.”

This indicates that your tension between the bullet and the inside dimension of the case neck is too loose!

“The issue that I am now running into is that if I set up the seating die as directed without the seating plunger/head/whatever its called in order to get a decent crimp, it pushes the bullet into the case also without the plunger”

Again, the tension is too loose! As MTgun44 told you in post #3 ---Increase your taper crimp. --- Pushback is not a safe thing. You should be able to take a loaded or dummy cartridge and push the boolit HARD against the edge of your bench and get ZERO change in LOA.

Do a search on tension and read up on the cause(s) and cure(s).

[Cherokee]

Sounds to me like the brass is not being sized down enough to have proper neck tension on the boolit. The crimp is not what is supposed to hold the boolit - neck tension does that job. The TC should just get rid of the flare put on for seating the boolit.

[MtGun44]

Both neck tension and crimp come into the picture. If your expander is a bit too
big, polish .001 off of it with 400 gr wet or dry strip with it spinning in a drill
press.

Bill

[Wayne Smith]

It is distinctly possible that your boolit is too big for the seat die. I had this problem with a Lee 8x56R Steyr die. I sent it to them with some boolits and explained that my boolit was catching on the die and not entering into the die - they opened up the die for me and it works great. This after a couple of e-mail exchanges to explain what I needed.

I was pleased with their response, communication, and willingness to change their product to meet my needs.

[runfiverun]

trimming the brass down would have gotten the mouth into a thicker bit of the brass.
the expander is where i'd start looking.
if you go pushing the boolit down into the case and are using titegroup powder you will have an over pressure situation i will guarantee it.

[Giggidy]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I've scrapped what I did and am going to start over again when I have some time in the next couple of days. I'm going to measure my case diameter at each step to try to figure out where exactly the problem is. Sent an email to Lee explaining what is happening too so if it comes down to a die issue I will have already begun the process.