NY State Militia 50-70 Question

[linotype]

Hope you don't might a bunch of questions, but I'm looking for good sound advice.

I will be getting a NY State Militia Contract 50-70 Roller soon. It appears to be in good shape, other than some barrel pitting.

I'm new to the 50-70 and have thought about using the rifle for demos at our CAS matches.

How safe are these old rifles to shoot? Should I use 70 grains of BP, or would recommend a milder load? Light weight bullet or the more standard original cast bullet?

I see recommendations about not using smokeless power at all, only black powder.

Should I use blanks only? Load the blanks with black powder, BP substitute, or light smokeless charge?

I saw an old article years ago about using wooden bullets with a light charge at a blank cartridge load level, that could be used to leave holes in a paper target for demos. Any thoughts?

Or, should I just not shoot the rifle and just enjoy its history?

Linotype

[nhrifle]

The Rolling Block was known as one of the strongest actions of the time so I see no reason not to shoot it. I would definitely avoid smokeless and load it as intended with BP and cast boolits. How much powder you get into the case will depend on the brass as some are thicker than others. Do your research and just have fun with that piece of history. You might want to get a copy of Mike Venturino's book Shooting Buffalo Rifles, available at Buffalo arms and other places.

[John Boy]

Or, should I just not shoot the rifle and just enjoy its history?
Linotype, erase your concerns and shoot the rifle as it was designed to be shot ... 70grs of black powder WITH a bullet 450 or 500gr bullet

Here's the loading data I use in my 1879 Military 50-70 ... that I shoot out to 1000yds

50-70 Lee 515-450F 457 0.22(BC) 1:20 Starline CCI BR2 Swiss FFg 70gr 0.075 DryFelt 1263fps Avg 13.8 SD - 5x Blows with 6:00 Hold

[Ed in North Texas]

I agree with the others, shoot it with BP and cast boolits. I shoot the Lyman 515141 with 70 grains (weighed) of KIK 1.5F, a .30 veggie wad, Starline brass. I have replaced the original firing pin with a newly made replacement as the original made very deep impressions in the primer. I assume this is because the original .50-70 cartridges were inside primed and needed the longer firing pin blow. Didn't want to make the original pin shorter, so replaced it. I don't think the original pin would pierce the primers, but ... Your pin might be different.

Ed

[Bullshop]

If in shootable condition shoot it. If you plan to shoot it please look at the group buy we have going with NOE.
It is about an exact copy of the original milsurp 450gn HB bullet. With this bullet and a can of ffg BP your gun will do things you may have thought not possible.

[linotype]

Thank you for all the advice and support. Most of my experience has been with .303s, Mausers, Krags and Enfields, so I'm still learning about the 1871-72 rolling block rifle.

nhrifle: Been researching the rolling block. Very interesting. I'll order a copy of the Shooting Buffalo Rifles.

John Boy, I'm definitely going to try your load, I cast for and shoot a wide range of 45-70, in both black powder with card, and smokeless to try out different powders.

Ed in North Texas: I
Looked up the Lyman 515141. Neat bullet. Sounds like 70 grains of black powder is just the ticket. Will check out the firing pin. Should be easy enough to turn and fit a shorter firing pin.

Bullshop: Thank you for the invitation to the Group Buy. You had me after “NOE”.
I'll keep an eye out for the Lee and Lymans to add to my casting collection.

I didn't know anything about the 50-70 other than it was one of the milestone marks in the transition from military muzzle loaders to cartridge firearms. After learning more about the 50-70 and the rolling block, I will certainly plan a special place and time for demos and lectures at our CAS matches.

Thanks to all!
Linotype

[Bullshop]

RCBS has one as well at about 550gn. Mine drops at .515" with pure lead.

[bob208]

are you near me? i have an army rolling block in .50-70 which is the same as the nys. i shoot mine with bp and a cast bullet. i have a lyman mold that is close to the original bullet.

[Bullshop]

bob208
The Lyman design is close in shape but lacks the hollow base of the original arsenal design. The group buy being done by NOE is a near exact copy with hollow base.
There was a reason for the hollow base in a 450gn 50 cal bullet just as there was a reason for the hollow base in the 405gn 45 cal arsenal bullet.
I have a collection of bullets found on the prarie between Fort Buford and Fort Union on the Missouri. The 50 cal 450gn, 45 cal 405gn, and 250gn 45 Colt bullets all have hollow base while the 500gn 45 does not.
Anybody wanting to shoot a milsurp 50/70 with BP and have the sights regulate correctly should get in on this group buy.

[StrawHat]

...The group buy being done by NOE is a near exact copy with hollow base ... Anybody wanting to shoot a milsurp 50/70 with BP and have the sights regulate correctly should get in on this group buy...

For reference,

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?116326-NOE-515141-450Gr-FN

[bob208]

yes the reason the first bullets had the hollow base was because of the converted sharps. which alot of were not relined to .50. but were left with the .52 cal bore. i have owned both. but later that problem was fixed with the newer guns. my 1873 army rollingblock shoots the lyman bullet also my garret arms sharps carbine repro.

i would expect to find a lot of the sharps bullets in the area. the sharps carbine was the first issue breachloader of the indian wars. the spencer was also used in very limited numbers.

[Ed in North Texas]

yes the reason the first bullets had the hollow base was because of the converted sharps. which alot of were not relined to .50. but were left with the .52 cal bore. i have owned both. but later that problem was fixed with the newer guns. my 1873 army rollingblock shoots the lyman bullet also my garret arms sharps carbine repro.

i would expect to find a lot of the sharps bullets in the area. the sharps carbine was the first issue breachloader of the indian wars. the spencer was also used in very limited numbers.

Good information. I know that my NYSM RB shoots very well with the 515141. Given my old eyes and open sights, it shoots very, very well. This is 7 rounds at 50 yards off the bench (yeah, I threw one, I'm surprised it was only one :mrgreen:). I fired a total of 15 rounds that day, these being the last 7. I swabbed the bore after the first 8. No blowing between shots, nor wiping. Boolit is a bit undersized @ .512 in my soft scrap mix, lubed in a .512 Lyman H&I.

Ed

58099

[Bullshop]

Its kinda funny that we find these fired bullets at prairie dog towns near the forts. Makes ya wounder.

[NickSS]

I had a NYS rifle and it shot really well with both BP and AA 5744 and the lyman bullet sized to .515". The only problem I had with the rifle was the sights it shot exactly one foot to the right at 100 yards and two feet right at 200 yards. The Lyman bullet with 70 gr of FFG GOEX shot to the sight setting elevation wise out to 200 yards but I had to use Kentucky windage to hit the target. I sold the rifle to a collector who did not plan to shoot it. The 5744 load I used was 25 gr and the same bullet. It shot really well at 100 yards and to the sights elevation wise but to the right as well.

[MtGun44]

Heck, it'd prolly kill a prairie dog. :bigsmyl2:

What's the status of the mold order? Seems like I signed up a long time ago, never
heard back.

Bill

[Ed in North Texas]

Heck, it'd prolly kill a prairie dog. :bigsmyl2:

What's the status of the mold order? Seems like I signed up a long time ago, never
heard back.

Bill


Yeah, the first Varmint rifle - who knew?

Ed

[StrawHat]

Originally Posted by MtGun44

Heck, it'd prolly kill a prairie dog.

What's the status of the mold order? Seems like I signed up a long time ago, never
heard back.

Bill

Yeah, the first Varmint rifle - who knew?

Ed

At least the first centerfire one. I have used the 1873 Springfield to shoot groundhogs but not the 1866, yet!