OK, riddle me this one, levergun experts!?

[MtGun44]

Working with a new to me Mrlin 336 in .35 Rem. First boolit loads are a 358315 Lyman
RN which is 208 gr with my alloy (wwts, basically) and sized to .360 because I was too
lazy to slug it and the .360 die was in the lubrisizer already.

Loaded over fairly stout loads of W748 and W846T, moderate crimp in crimp groove,
CCI-200 primers, R-P brass.

First shot was 5" low and 2-3" left, remaing 4 shots went into 1.5" group about 1.5" low
and 1.5" left of aiming point (1.5-5 scope that came on the gun, set at 5) at range of 50 yds
from bench, holding the forend, my wrist rested on front rest. HMMMM. Odd. Went down
and looked, had to wait for others on range to redo targets, etc. Next group was fired in
about 10 minutes.

First shot, ~6" low and 4" left, remaining 4 shots went into 1.5" group pretty much on the
point of aim. . . . . . . . . . What the heck??? Quick glance shows perfect cleanliness at
muzzle.

I was ready to put the first one down not having shot boolits in it before an not cleaning out
copper. That seems to be wrong. Kinda useless as a hunting rifle the way it is. Will
make more of the same loads and try again in the future. Not my first rodeo but I have
never seen this trick before.

Bill

[Rick Hodges]

It is not unusual for the first shot from a cold clean barrel to be away from the rest of the group. What you describe seems a bit extreme, especially if the second group was from a fouled barrel.

[btroj]

Single loaded or thru the magazine? I find that makes a difference in some Marlins. Has to do with magazine spring tension and weight in the tube.

You need the McPherson book "Accurizing the Factory Rifle". He has so much info on Marlins that it isn't even believable.

[Larry Gibson]

Also what is the ambient temp there in Kansas while you were shooting? The temp can really make the lube residue and fouling hard when cold which causes the first couple shots to be flyers until the barrel warms up.

Larry Gibson

[fishnbob]

It sounds a lot like the .35 Rem that I have. I have about pulled the rest of my hair out. I have found that if I weigh out the boolits and group according to weight, it helps. Also if I put the front rest as close to the receiver as possible, it makes a difference. And if I don't put over 3 rounds at a time in the magazine, it does better. After loosening up the magazine screw, it also helped but in spite of all the above, I am going to get a flyer out of every group. Oh and BTW, I can group as well off hand, resting my elbows on the bench as I can with a sandbag. I am entertaining the idea of having the barrel lined and before I do that, I am going to shoot them without sizing as they drop from the mold(around 0.360").

[725]

My dads .35 Rem Marlin 336 is likewise inconsistant. I did a full and complete detail strip cleaning. Took it all apart. Mag tube, forend, everything off. When it got down to bare bones, I discovered that I could unscrew the barrel, by hand, with almost no effort at all. There is a visable wiggle between the barrel and the receiver. A CLUE!!! I have labored over the corrective procedure to use. ?Lock-tite, ?teflon tape, ?aluminum foil in the threads, I just don't know. I am leaning towards silver soldering the thing in place to completely remove any movement between the two pieces. Still mullling it over but think that's the way to fix it.

[GabbyM]

Sounds like a typical Marlin to me.
Check and adjust magazine font screw. Barrel band and so on.
Or at least you’d hear that on that Marlin Forum.

What you have is a rifle with loose fit at barrel to receiver junction.
When you put some heat into the gun this junction tightens up. Only thing I can think of that would create such a large POI change followed by good accuracy. Other than the flip side as in an over torque barrel.

[GabbyM]

My dads .35 Rem Marlin 336 is likewise inconsistant. I did a full and complete detail strip cleaning. Took it all apart. Mag tube, forend, everything off. When it got down to bare bones, I discovered that I could unscrew the barrel, by hand, with almost no effort at all. There is a visable wiggle between the barrel and the receiver. A CLUE!!! I have labored over the corrective procedure to use. ?Lock-tite, ?teflon tape, ?aluminum foil in the threads, I just don't know. I am leaning towards silver soldering the thing in place to completely remove any movement between the two pieces. Still mullling it over but think that's the way to fix it.

Use a simple shim between receiver and barrel. Metal ( steel) shim stock. I’m not saying this is easy. But it’s not rocket science either. If the thread fit is poor that’s not good but not a bailout issue either.

Didn’t see your post until I’d posted above. Hence refreshing this thread. Nice example of how brainstorming can work when you have 29,000 brains. When brainstorming was explained to me I worked in a 350 man shop in the 1980’s. That was a sorry joke.

[Gtek]

Take front end apart and reassemble without forearm. See if you can slide a dollar bill between barrel and mag tube between band and front of receiver. Found more than one than had hard contact and required a little more removal at end of forward machine cut. Then make sure forearm is JUST this side of moveable when assembled. Gtek

[GabbyM]

Take front end apart and reassemble without forearm. See if you can slide a dollar bill between barrel and mag tube between band and front of receiver. Found more than one than had hard contact and required a little more removal at end of forward machine cut. Then make sure forearm is JUST this side of moveable when assembled. Gtek

Typical fault of Marlins indeed. However in my mind at least. This would not explain the single first shot going wild followed by a tight group. In my very limited experience with Marlin lever guns. Barrel tension issues simply cause POI scatter. As opposed to a typical bolt guns stringing. At this point it's all conjecture.

[northmn]

Mine did that and walked with shots as the barrel heated up. I just took it apart and free floated the forearm and it now seems to be pretty consistant cold barrel to warm barrel.

DP

[Dave Bulla]

My 35 would shoot one 3 inches left at 50 then the next almost dead center (left to right) then the next shot cut the first hole 3 inches left. The 4th shot cut the 2nd hole that was centered. I thought the scope was bad. Took it off and the rings had old gummy oil under them. Got the rings off and started to take the base screws out... All 4 were loose. Previous owner must have liked gun oil because it had wicked into the space between base and receiver, between rings and scope etc. It was all gummy like the oil around a french fryer pot rim. All cleaned up and reinstalled it shoots much better.

[geargnasher]

Bill, my leverguns typically 'walked' as they warmed, and walked back with just a brief cooling. Magazine tube, band, and forend stresses as have been described as well as full/empty magazine from field shooting positions affect POI slightly, sometimes dramatically, but it usually takes at least three consecutive shots to notice, often five or more on a cool day.

It sounds to me like you have a lube issue, in all my recent lube testing there have been a few formulas that do just what you describe in leverguns and bolt guns too.

It would do to decopper it, every used Marlin I've come across had terrible copper buildup from about an inch in front of the throat about 6-8" up the barrel causing a pretty significant reverse-taper of the bore. Probably not causing your issue, but you never know. Removing the copper there is just "good housekeeping" for a rifle destined for a diet of cast. Get the barrel clean and go burn a couple boxes of your cast loads to season the bore, and go easy with the cleaning after that. It should settle in unless your lube sucks. Don't be afraid to get the barrel warm, too, magazine/forend problems can rear their ugly heads after 5-10 quick rounds and you'd never know about it just shooting 3-5 at a time leisurely with long cooling periods.

Gear

[MtGun44]

The first shots were from cool barrels, but the remaining 4 were shot at about 10-15 second
intervals, and 2 thru 4 in a tight group, so cool bore is there for one shot, but no "heating
and walking" which I have seen in other guns. First shot WAY out of the group then a nice
uniform group.

I will clean it and try with NRA 50-50, lube used was a mix of LBT soft blue and a lube purchased
from a member which has worked very well on pistol boolits, never used on rifle before.

If it does it again, the forend and mag tube come off and I'll shoot it bare barrel and see
what it does. Doesn't seem like the usual binding mag tube and/or forend antics to me.

Bill

[KirkD]

If it does it again, the forend and mag tube come off and I'll shoot it bare barrel and see
what it does.
I'll be interested in what you find when you do that. I had a Winchester 30-30 carbine that was shooting giving me the weirdest 'groups'. I finally shot it bare barrel and it still did it. Finally I took a good look down the bore and it looked like a tunnel that curved to the right; the barrel was quite bent. This is not the case for you, as it is only the first shot that is giving you grief, but it is one of three things: a) lack of fouling (doubtful) b) cool barrel (maybe but doubtful) c) something different about the cartridge/bullet/load, most probably the bullet, and shooting it on the first shot on different occasions is only coincidental. I lean toward (c)

[Doc Highwall]

How about where the butt stock attaches? The tang should fit tight and also the two ears on the stock should touch at the same time. I was just going to mention about the scope as if it was good but with others having the same issue it is probley not the problem.

I have a 1895 that I went through and it shoots like a bolt gun. I read "Accurizing The Factory Rifle" by M.L.McPherson and paid attention to what he said and recommend it.

[Gtek]

"I will clean it and try with NRA 50-50" Holding pattern, curious, awaiting results. Gtek

[Lloyd Smale]

ill give that recomendation of the McPherson book a big amen!

[leadtater]

Just out of curiosity, how does it shoot with J-words?

[MtGun44]

Never tried any. The factory ammo is about $35 for 20 and I don't really intend to use factory
ammo, so the only thing I have put through it is these 10 boolits.

Bill