my first bullets (40-65 winchester, 45 LC, 475 Linebaugh)

[gloverxoh]

5778457781I had a lot of fun working up my first lead bullets. I made a number of bullets for my 40-65 shiloh, 45 LC, and 475 Linebaugh. All were LBT molds. Bullet casting is really a lot of fun. My wife just upgraded my lead furnace to and RCBS, so that will make things much nicer.

I used the formula Veral told me to use since I have quite a bit of linotype and pure lead. Dropped them into a bucket of water to quench harden them.

I sized everything using a magna lube sizer (LBT blue for the 45 LC and 475 Linebaugh), a black powder appropriate lube (DGL lube) for the 40-65. 0.454 for the 45 LC, 0.476 for the linebaugh, 0.408 for the shiloh. 40 cal bullets weighted 405 grains, 45 LC, 292 grain, and 430 grain bullets for the 475 Linebaugh.

So far informal shooting with the 45 and 475 has been very happy with no leading. Will be interested to get the hardness data (before and after sizing and over time).

I was very pleased with results from shooting the shiloh from my first outing. No leading, easy to clean. . My first black powder cartridge effort. Using Swiss 1.5 Fg and cci magnum large rifle primers. The 40-65 bullets are 1.3180 inches long, and I seat them for an OAL of 2.6500 inches (just touching lands in my gun). Since the case is 2.100 inches long, that means 0.5500 inches of bullet extend out of the case, and the powder is compressed variably by the 0.7680 inches of bullet and 0.030 inch vegetable wad (I use a drop tube first, then compress the powder and wad to just slight high and let the bullet compress the powder the last 0.020 inches to make sure there is no air gap.

the seating depth is just a bit deeper that the top groove on the bullet.

My meager testing was impaired as my vernier sight was not quite right (it seems to have been damaged and will not hold). I will have to replace very soon. Regardless, it made a group about 4 inches across with 20 shots that varied powder charge (but not seating depth) at 100 yards. So I will be interested to see how thing shoot when I get my sights. Anyway, I thought I would post the data and will update the accuracy information as I get better data and also get more proficient with vernier sights!.

Velocity was measured with a version 2 magneto speed chronograph. I really like this tool.

Lots to learn, but I feel a lot better after getting started.

shots load # bullet bullet wt (grns) powder powder (grns) avg sd extr spread
5 1 LBT SP1 405 swiss 1.5 Fg 46.00 1148 9 26
5 2 LBT SP1 405 swiss 1.5 Fg 47.00 1162 17 48
5 3 LBT SP1 405 swiss 1.5 Fg 47.50 1164 10 24
5 4 LBT SP1 405 swiss 1.5 Fg 49.00 1186 8 23

[Old Caster]

Be careful to make absolutely sure that you don't have any leading because everyone I knew at the BPCR shoots always had leading after a match. If they used only pure lead and tin for their bullets, it was easy to get it out but every person, including me, that tried bullets with antimony in them found that the leading from them was very difficult to get out. This always had us going home paranoid because if black powder is under that lead, it will rust fast and you might not know it. We all quit that and went back to between 40-1 and 20-1 mix of lead to tin with no antimony. The easiest way to get pure lead if you decide to go that route, is to buy old plumbing pipe or roof flashings that have been removed from old houses. If you only use the part around the solder joint and sell the rest you won't have to buy any tin. It is easy to tell how much tin is in your mix with a BHN tester as long as there is no antimony in the mix. If antimony is in the mix there is no practical way to tell how much of each is in it. People will likely trade pure for lead with antimony because most would rather have it for smokeless loads, but be sure of the puirity before you trade. -- Bill --

[gloverxoh]

Thanks Bill. I appreciate your advice.

I verified the lead was pure using SEM-EDX (it was purchased as pure lead, but I wanted to verify). I am a chemist, so the purity was something i wanted to verify before I got started cooking this stuff.

Basically, 9 lbs pure lead, 1 pound lino (from rotometals), 1/4 cup bird shot. Water quenched. So it has tin, antimony, and arsenic.

The bore cleaned up very nicely, it is very clean as far as I can tell. I can re-examine it and run some lead solvent thru it to make sure nothing is going on, but it is as bright as before I shot it (the rifle was unfired before this weekend). I have no experience on BPCR, so I plan on going to the local match this weekend and have them tell me if I am crazy. Miami Valley Rifle Pistol Club in Southern Ohio.

I tested the hardness of the batch last night (I used the same alloy for my 45 LC and 475 Linebaugh, same quench method) and using a LBT hardness tester got a 25 BHN. That is from yesterday, so 4 weeks after I cast them. The pointed tip of this design makes it difficult to measure the hardness, perhaps I can try it on the side of the bullet. These are all heavy bullets, so I would not expect massive differences in hardness since they came from the same pot. Again, that is just my assumption.

I can always redesign my lead alloy for the bpcr if it seems that that is a bad mix for that application, just get some slightly high leaded tin to mix with my pure lead (or just buy it pre-mixed and save my pure lead for my lead/lino/birdshot brew).

Thanks!
Sam

[Old Caster]

Sam, All the advice is a conglomerate from about 35 guys that shoot BPCR at Benchrest club close to St. Louis Missouri. I pretty much listened to their advice and had good results shooting a C Sharps in 40/65. I used a Lyman 385 grain 410660 for chickens, turkeys, and pigs but a 430 grain bullet from a Paul Jones mold for the rams. The front of the Lyman mold didn't mold a round nose and the bullet didn't ride in the bore like I wanted so when I won a free Brooks mold, I had him make one up that was supposed to be exactly the same but (round) and another thousandths larger on the ogive but I never got it to shoot as good as the Lyman. I have no idea why. I shot 15 pigs in a row many times with the Lyman so I really shouldn't have tried to change but I always look for more. My Sharps doesn't have much free bore so I was limited how I could load my bullets and I think that is a disadvantage. Since you are shooting Swiss, there isn't a whole lot you can do wrong because it is so forgiving. Only slight compression is necessary. If you decide to shoot anything else, it is necessary to pour your powder in your case very slowly (maybe 10 seconds) so that the column height is always the same. Pyrodex absolutely will not shoot accurately unless you do this and compress the load about .180. If you have some other brand of Black or some Pyrodex, try pouring an amount of powder into a case fast through your funnel and then the same amount slow through the same funnel with or without a drop tube and you will see that the powder level is different. I firmly believe this is why the Swiss works so well. It is fool proof because the column height of the powder in the cartridge won't vary with speed of drop or length of drop tube making compression identical each time. I used Pyrodex after finding the secret because I didn't have to use a blow tube and I had more time to make a decision when to shoot in the right wind conditions. Just before I quit shooting this game one of my friends that shot black, was getting good results having a dish of patches so he could push a patch through the barrel after each shot and he was old enough that he had to shoot sitting up with tall sticks.-- Bill --

[gloverxoh]

Bill do you know if anyone has made a spout with a smaller orifice so that the powder is forced to trickle through it (sort of like sand in an hour glass)? Seems that something like that would help to keep the powder very uniform.

I purchased 5 lbs of swiss and 5 of Goex (2F) at the same time. So I will give your experiment a try.

I have noted with surprise that there seems to be no freebore in the shiloh! I need to ask them or perhaps try my hand at my first chamber cast. The bullet clearly engages the rifling very quickly above the end of the brass.

I am trying my hand at a bunch of different things. Benchrest, FClass, BPCR, SASS, and even some shotgun work. Will see what fits my personality best. I looked into some of the 3 gun stuff, but that crowd was just not me. Being an analytical chemist, well the precision interests me.

I was pleased at how the black powder shot and cleaned up. It is definately neat to shoot these using the materials they were designed with. The only thing I dont like is I cant travel easily with it (i travel a lot, and if there is a range nearby I sometimes will drag out my gun to get more practice at different places). Plane rides with black powder are not allowed.

Thanks again,
Sam

[Cherokee]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your success.

[Old Caster]

You may be allowed to plane ride with Pyrodex. The device you talk about with a hole in it is exactly what I used. I made it so it went on a drop tube that was I believe about 5/16 inch brass and I made it so I could but whatever size insert with a custom drilled hole that I wanted. I then took a hair dryer motor from a 110 volt hair dryer. The motors are DC so the diodes you see in the picture are necessary. The voltage of these motors vary but are usually 12 volts. When the air dryer is taken apart, just check the voltage at the motor terminals while it is running and you will then know what kind of transformer you need. Different speeds mean different voltage. Since it is low voltage, just put a push button with wire exposed. On the motor, I put a home made wheel about 1/2 inch in diameter that has its hole mount drilled off center so it will vibrate. I experimented with hole size until I got what I wanted. Swiss will go right through without pressing the button but the Goex won't if it is the right size and the Pyrodex has to be even larger. If you are going to make something like what I made I can give you measurements that are more exact. 5824058241