Magnum Primers

[Gliden07]

Somebody gave me some Large and Small Magnum Pistol Primers the only thing I'm loading now is 45ACP I am setting up for 9MM (if I ever get a shell plate for my LNL). Was wondering with the shortage of primers can I use the Magnum Primers and if I can what if anything should I do different? Load for 45 is as follows- Lee Tumble Lube 230GR RN sized to .452, 5GR 231 powder and CCI LPP. 9MM is still up in the air, I do plan on using 231 Powder but haven't made a choice of Mold yet need to slug gun still. Everything I've read about casting Boolits for this says I shouldn't use Tumble style Boolits and I don't have a Lubesizer yet.

[454PB]

You should be OK, as long as they fire consistently, and you're not already using a "maximum" load for the gun. Magnum primers are hotter and have thicker cups than standard primers. I use the same weight boolit in my Ruger P-90 with 5.5 grs. of WW231 and a standard primer.

[Old Caster]

According to Wideners, Wolf magnum aren't any hotter and are only harder cups. I have heard and expect that all the rest are hotter but don't know about harder. Your load of 5 grains is mild enough that even if the magnum primers gave you more pressure and velocity, you are well within parameters.

[nhrifle]

Might give more uniform ignition with the hotter flame column. I have never tried them as most gun shops around me don't normally stock them, but please post any results you have, good or bad.

[ipijohn]

I've shot 20K Wolf small pistol magnum primers in the last 3 years. Have shot both 230 gr 45 cal with 5.0 gr of 231 and 125 gr 9 MM with 4.0 grains of 231 without any issues.

[runfiverun]

i use magnum primers in some instances.[i buy them on purpose]
the 25-20 and 30 carbine sr mag and the 38 special sp mag are the three main ones i use them in.
i haven't tried them in the 9m, but if you work the load up with them from the start you should be fine.

[Gliden07]

Thanks Guys I appreciate the info!! I'll be able to save a little money and be safe!! A WIN WIN!!

[biker_trash_1340]

I've had no problems with any of my "Tumble style Boolits" in my .45acp or 9mm... I must be doing something wrong. lol

[Sasquatch-1]

OK, I just picked up 2000 CCI550's at a gunshow. Is there any powders that should be avoided when using the magnum primers in 9mm and 38spl? Right now I have Unique availible and know I would have to reduce the load. I was thinking about starting at 4Grns. Does this sound low enough? I would be using the .38 in a 2" model 10 S&W. I am hoping my meager supply of standard small pistols will last until the scare is over.

[astroskg]

i pick up primers when i find them sometimes magnum some times regular primers depends on what's in stock, i had read that you should lower the charge because they fire hotter. but because i usually load low to middle of the road i have never had any issues using magnum primers, i have also read that the use of magnum primers in cold climates are preferred especially if under 32 degrees. any ways my two cents, primers are primers to me they all work with my reloads.

[44man]

OK, I just picked up 2000 CCI550's at a gunshow. Is there any powders that should be avoided when using the magnum primers in 9mm and 38spl? Right now I have Unique availible and know I would have to reduce the load. I was thinking about starting at 4Grns. Does this sound low enough? I would be using the .38 in a 2" model 10 S&W. I am hoping my meager supply of standard small pistols will last until the scare is over.
Not the powder but you might need to reduce. It is primer pressure push to the boolit. That can move a boolit before good ignition. What it changes is case capacity from shot to shot depending on boolit movement.
I am a firm believer in fire at the base of the powder and a progressive burn, not pressure blasting through the powder trying to ignite it all at once.
The small charge of Bullseye is no hindrance to pressure, making it fly all over in the brass while primer pressure impacts the boolit base.
I might be strange but many short barrels can be fired with a primer only. The primer alone can at least drive a boolit far into the barrel.
Vic, you know what I do.

[bobthenailer]

Years back i ran into a really good deal on 20,000 Federal Large pistol magnum primers. I allready had a good load worked up for my 1911's ,with the Saeco 068 200gr swc bullet and 5.0gr of WSL (Not a Max load) with FED LP . i switched to Fed LPM primers to try it out and accuracy at 25 yards was ecentually the same for 25 shot groups @ 25 yards , i never chrono the loads, but i used up 15,000 of the LPM primers in that load !

[44man]

Years back i ran into a really good deal on 20,000 Federal Large pistol magnum primers. I allready had a good load worked up for my 1911's ,with the Saeco 068 200gr swc bullet and 5.0gr of WSL (Not a Max load) with FED LP . i switched to Fed LPM primers to try it out and accuracy at 25 yards was ecentually the same for 25 shot groups @ 25 yards , i never chrono the loads, but i used up 15,000 of the LPM primers in that load !
Apples to oranges! You have resistance to the boolit in the 1911 from the rifling. Not so with a throat, gap, cone and then rifling.

[Jkallen83]

ive accidentally bought magnum primers before. i couldnt really tell a difference. i try to use proper primers now, but at least its good to know that if needed or accidentally get the wrong thing, it still works.

[runfiverun]

the neck tension being overcome by the primers is what 44 man is talking about.
it being overcome inconsistently is when the accuracy issues show up.

[44man]

the neck tension being overcome by the primers is what 44 man is talking about.
it being overcome inconsistently is when the accuracy issues show up.
YES, YES, YES. So important with a revolver.

[on1wheel01]

I have also been wondering this. With the shortage of spp, I switched to small rifle as I have read here the cup is just stronger. Good to know I can use small mag as well for my 9mm.

[Sasquatch-1]

So it sounds like I need to make sure I have a good crimp on the bullets.

[44man]

So it sounds like I need to make sure I have a good crimp on the bullets.
Not so much crimp but case tension is best. There is no danger and mag primers work but they will do better in, say a 1911.
My primer work has been just about accuracy and my thoughts on them are just that, my thoughts. It has proven to me that it works in revolvers above all else and you might be OK with a single shot or such with any primer.
Take the .44. I can tell a difference between a standard, a WLP and a mag primer just by shooting and reading groups. I can tell if case tension varies.
The .45 ACP revolver was not mine but it would not group at 25 yards so I made bushings so I could try a standard SP primer and it was pretty dramatic at the target. My friend then bought 1000 SP cases.

[Gliden07]

Everytime I come on here and start a topic it usually expands way beyond my original question (This is a good thing!!). I pay attention and read all the responses and try to learn a little more about this hobby. The only thing is everytime I read and learn a little more I relize how little I know about this hobby!! Thanks for all your guys input!!

[leftiye]

A basic principle, since the primer is the first thing going on in firing a cartridge, the primer's effects are magnified upon all that follows. Hotter primers cause more radical variance, and cooler primers cause less variance (so long as ignition is good enough to be uniform). This concept explains why black powder is so accurate, generally it operates at such low pressures that Whatever variance there is is swallowed up in the large volume of the charge while percussion ignition is relatively mild and pressure is allowed to escape through the nipple as things get going. This was one of the reasons the PPC cartridges were created, an attempt to get small rifle primers in approximately 30-06 headsize cartridges. The other was to get a shorter fatter case design. Many other case/cartridge designs followed. There are many instances where small capacity rifle cases benefit from standard primers, or even standard small pistol primers, especially in cast boolit loads (keeping pressures down whilst engraving takes place), and especially in smaller bore calibers.

[wrangler5]

During the LAST primer crisis I was shooting 9mm, not revolvers. When I found myself with only Magnum small pistol primers I loaded up a few test batches with the same 124g bullets and the Accurate #5 powder I normally used with standard primers. My chrono detected NO material difference in high, low or average velocities - variances were about 2%.

[youngda9]

Take the .44. I can tell a difference between a standard, a WLP and a mag primer just by shooting and reading groups. I can tell if case tension varies.
I'm not sure how to respond to this.

[Sasquatch-1]

During the LAST primer crisis I was shooting 9mm, not revolvers. When I found myself with only Magnum small pistol primers I loaded up a few test batches with the same 124g bullets and the Accurate #5 powder I normally used with standard primers. My chrono detected NO material difference in high, low or average velocities - variances were about 2%.

What manufaturer were you using? Some people here have said (and I don't know whether it's true or not) that the only difference in the standard and magnum primers produced by the old Soviet block countries is the thickness of the primer walls.

[Gibson]

I am a firm believer in fire at the base of the powder and a progressive burn, not pressure blasting through the powder trying to ignite it all at once.

Here's my take:

"The ideal in any cartridge is to ignite all of the powder grains at once over their entire surface."

cf. Speer #7 page 61

Edit: Hope you are well, Jim.

[44man]

Here's my take:

"The ideal in any cartridge is to ignite all of the powder grains at once over their entire surface."

cf. Speer #7 page 61

Edit: Hope you are well, Jim.
That's why I don't read much! :mrgreen: Now small charges of fast powder do go off like that, can't get away from it. I would hate to have 80+ gr of powder go off all at once in a magnum rifle.
I'm doing good, sitting here waiting for an order to show up.
How is your boy doing?

[Gibson]

That's why I don't read much! :mrgreen: Now small charges of fast powder do go off like that, can't get away from it. I would hate to have 80+ gr of powder go off all at once in a magnum rifle.
I'm doing good, sitting here waiting for an order to show up.
How is your boy doing?

He is well. Yesterday was his chemo day so he feels a bit rough but he's tough.

April 25 is last treatment. We need to celebrate :)

(God willing, of course)

[wrangler5]

What manufaturer were you using? Some people here have said (and I don't know whether it's true or not) that the only difference in the standard and magnum primers produced by the old Soviet block countries is the thickness of the primer walls.

They were Winchesters - I normally use WSP, but had some WSM on hand when I ran out of WSP. As I said, the velocity differences between the two, other components being equal, were no more than 2%. And as I think about it, those differences MAY just have been the cases (I use mixed headstamp cases and do not keep track of number of times reloaded.)

[44man]

Great, another prayer on the way for all of you.

Primers are strange things. I have done some funny things with them and it is true some brands use the same amount of compound and change just the cup but my feeling is they started with high pressure with the standard primer anyway. The reason for the cup being tougher was to stop slam fires from a lot of military guns with floating pins. AK is one.
Once I get to the converted brass on the .454 for a LP primer or the .475 and up, a Mag primer is way more accurate. Why this is so can only mean there is more fire but I can't pin it down. If I go to a standard primer, groups open just like the .44 does if I go to a mag primer.
Some will blame cup thickness but remember I use over power hammer springs. All of my revolvers have 26# Wolff springs.
There really is a difference.
I got in trouble and a lot of dispute, even lost a few friends over a primer. I shot factory cast .44 loads and said they had mag primers in them. An argument ensued. I pulled a primer and seen the color. I called the factory and was told, yes, indeed, it is a CCI 350.
I see a few dispute my ability to read a primer just from a group.
Then about Fed .44 loads that use the 150 primer. I called Fed and was told after going through records, a mag primer has never been used in the .44.
Got me tossed off a few sites. Group pictures did too, I was called a liar. Careful how you pass on stuff you learn, some don't like it when you step on their toes. Never was my purpose, some find me abrasive, not so, test first. Knowledge is always first.
My friends, primers are different. Go read the shotgun manuals where they tell you NEVER to use other then what the load says to use. Seen a guy blow a fine shotgun by switching primers.

[Muddydogs]

I switched to mag CCI primers years ago after I got a couple hang fires in my 7mm with CCI standard primer due to cold temps. To keep it simple all I started buying was mag primers. I load 38, 357, 40, 45, 44 with CCI mag primers and Unique. For 223, 308, 7mm, and 243 I use mag primers with Reloader 15, Reloader 22, W748 as well as other powders I don't remember. The old saying was that mag primers act like an extra grain of powder so max loads should be reduced by 1 grain. I don't worry about this to much as I work up my loads and might work past max load a grain or two if the round is to be loaded on a progressive at or near max so I won't have any problems if the powder throws are a little off.

[44man]

Was that a 7mm mag? They need a mag primer.
What you lose out is accuracy with different calibers. The mag primer goes off but has different affects in each case.
Nothing wrong with what you do, makes it simple.

[dakotashooter2]

Often after supplies return to normal and demand subsides magnum primers can be had for cheaper than the standard ones if the store is overstocked. Thats when I buy them for my emergency stash.