.44 Keith Bullet Recommendation

[mr-mom]

Have been a lurker here for some time. Please redirect this post if not in correct place. Because of current living conditions. I am unable to get into casting my own bullets, but I do reload several handgun and rifle cartridges. I recently acquired a S&W model 624 - .44 Special. I want to reload this cartridge and am looking for a recommendation for a commercial supplier who makes an honest reproduction of the 240 or 250 grain Keith bullet. Can someone direct me to a supplier? I know some of you good folks have a suggestion that will get me by until I can start casting my own. Thanks for your help!!
Dave

[RobS]

Possibly forum member Bullshop

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?141-Bullshop

[RobS]

https://secure25.securewebsession.com/proshootpro.com/order.htm

A good reputation

[RobS]

And I've heard good things from this company

http://www.missouribullet.com/results.php?category=5&secondary=12

[williamwaco]

I have had very good luck with these bullets but this is not a true Keith design

http://shop.snscasting.com/44-MAG-240-Gr-SWC-44-240SWC-500.htm


I suggest you post a request here asking of a member would custom cast some for you.


.

[44man]

I need to kick in. Why Keith? How about a RNFP or LBT style? Keith is a good boolit but is surpassed by better boolits that align better in forcing cones.

[knifemaker]

If I were you, I would first slug the bore of your new gun and determine what size dia. you will need for best accuracy and to prevent leading due to a undersize boolit. There are a few boolit makers that will provide larger dia. boolits then the standard .429 if you need one larger.

[MtGun44]

Bore not as relevant as throats, but this does assume a properly sized gun. Throats should ideally be
the same or a touch larger than the groove diam, and boolits should ideally be sized to throat diam.

Some guns do best with .001 over throat diam. Fitting the boolit to the gun is very important. Slugging
the bbl and the cylinder are very helpful. Please remove cyl before slugging to avoid damaging gun.

Bill

[shorty500M]

I need to kick in. Why Keith? How about a RNFP or LBT style? Keith is a good boolit but is surpassed by better boolits that align better in forcing cones.

and why N0T use the Keith? Some will blame manufactors for slow twist rifling but regardless some WFN designs dont stabilize if you want Special type velocities. Some need 1100fps minimum before even shoot well at short 25 to 50yd ranges where most plinking takes place. The Keith will work regardless of speed. Wide meplats are great for game but can be a BAD thing too! Have a great 285grain bore riding .45 full wadcutter mold but it wont shoot til hits 1100fps so its useless in Colt or other weaker guns even With the 1-15or16twist Rates regardless. Yet at 1100 it shoots even in a slow 1-24

[LAH]

I can supply you with either of these.

Lyman 429421

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Loading%20Room%20101/Bullets/Picture469.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Loading%20Room%20101/Bullets/Picture515.jpg

H&G 503 Clone

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Loading%20Room%20101/Bullets/44-258-K-1-A.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Loading%20Room%20101/Bullets/MiHec%20432-258-K/DSC00322a.jpg

[felix]

Shorty, are you sure your boolit is rotating according to spec when shot out of the pistols? A boolit design only needs a certain amount of rotation to remain stable for the environment it is being shot. ... felix

[Mal Paso]

LAH has some Great Boolits. I like the #503. Wider front band, more bearing surface and a hair smaller grease groove.

[44man]

and why N0T use the Keith? Some will blame manufactors for slow twist rifling but regardless some WFN designs dont stabilize if you want Special type velocities. Some need 1100fps minimum before even shoot well at short 25 to 50yd ranges where most plinking takes place. The Keith will work regardless of speed. Wide meplats are great for game but can be a BAD thing too! Have a great 285grain bore riding .45 full wadcutter mold but it wont shoot til hits 1100fps so its useless in Colt or other weaker guns even With the 1-15or16twist Rates regardless. Yet at 1100 it shoots even in a slow 1-24
Not the size or weight. Each needs it's own velocity and twist.
It is what the little shoulder does when it encounters the cone. Best to have the nose straighten the cylinder alignment.

[44man]

Shorty, are you sure your boolit is rotating according to spec when shot out of the pistols? A boolit design only needs a certain amount of rotation to remain stable for the environment it is being shot. ... felix
This is true. But I never mentioned velocity or twist either, just alignment of the boolit at the cone.
The ogive of the Keith does nothing at all, it does not even touch the lands. All depends on shoulder steerage.

[1Shirt]

44Man hits it on the head! The Kieth style is/was a great boolit, that worked well, and still works well. That said, would bet a Yankee dollar, that if Elmer were alive today, would applaud many of the handgun boolits currently on the market. The big wide flat meplats have long now proven their worth.
1Shirt!

[mr-mom]

Thanks for all of the replys fellows. I really didn't intend to start a debate, but the exchange of information and opinion has been interesting. From the research I've done, I came to the conclusion that I wanted to start with the Keith-style boolit, because it does perform well at all speeds, and I will most likely be loading for a variety of purposes. I've done my homework and know what I want and need to start with. If this one doesn't do the trick, well, we can always try something else. That's one of the nice things about loading yer own! Mark & Lyn, thank you for responding. I will do a follow-up.
Dave

[Piedmont]

44Man hits it on the head! The Kieth style is/was a great boolit, that worked well, and still works well. That said, would bet a Yankee dollar, that if Elmer were alive today, would applaud many of the handgun boolits currently on the market. The big wide flat meplats have long now proven their worth.
1Shirt!
Are you forgetting that Keith experimented with similar large meplat bullets that he designed and Belding and Mull produced for him? He rejected them because they didn't perform at long range and designed the Keith bullet with the features he wanted. That was 1927 or 1928. He had until he died in the early 1980s to find something better and didn't.

[44man]

Are you forgetting that Keith experimented with similar large meplat bullets that he designed and Belding and Mull produced for him? He rejected them because they didn't perform at long range and designed the Keith bullet with the features he wanted. That was 1927 or 1928. He had until he died in the early 1980s to find something better and didn't.
Not the meplat at all since a WLN or RNFP will have the same as a Keith and there is nothing wrong with the Keith meplat.
Keith shot soft boolits and any could be damaged going through the cone.
Everyone knows I shoot WFN to extreme ranges with accuracy. It is how they start.
I have Keith molds and got them to shoot good by making them harder so the shoulder did not get deformed.
The shoulder does nothing in the gun, during flight or in game, it was made to make a round hole in paper. The name says it all---semi wad cutter!
It was and still is a decent boolit but it takes perfect chamber alignment from all six, to the bore.
Cylinder play is hard to explain. The boolit is what aligns it. I just read where a guy put a Belt Mountain pin in his revolver and had bad leading on the top of his cone. He changed back to the original and cured it. He could have worn the cone off center if he kept shooting. It is NOT good to make a cylinder too tight.
So shoot a soft boolit! It gets mashed first. It might never pull the cylinder.
I showed a too soft Keith recovered once. There was no shoulder left, it was a WLN in the end and the GG's were gone, even the crimp groove was gone. SLUMP! They can't slump evenly and align the cylinder.
A smart revolver man loves the little cylinder play. Shoot a boolit that pulls it.