New style Sling Shots.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The earlier thread asking about Speargun bands had enough information to get me started thinking and as a result back into something I have actively used for nearly my entire life.

When I was 8 years old I spent the summer with my father on his farm in Bath MI. I saved my money and bought a BB gun.

However my mother in CA where I lived the other 9 months, wouldn't allow me to have it in town.

She did however buy me a Whamo Sling Shot one Saturday afternoon for $1.50 thinking that would apease me.

The instructions said to hold the yoke at a 45* angle and sight over the top limb. I did this and I quickly got success and proceeded to nail every bird that would hold still long enough for me to get a shot off.

Marbles were the preferred ammo, and if you connected, the critter went down instantly.

At 12 years old my BB gun was finally returned to me, but it had been used up by my younger half brothers, so I still gravitated to the slingshot when I needed to dispatch an annoyance. I killed 50 times the mockingbirds with that $1.50 slingshot that I ever got with the BB gun.

As time went by my sling shots got more powerful, I went thru Wrist Rockets, and Pocket Rockets all of which I still have. I still have that first Whamo Wooden Sling Shot my Mother bought me in 1958! In fact I had it out yesterday looking at it for ideas.

My last Pocket Rocket had 35LB surgical tubing on it and I could hit and break a beer bottle at 30 yards every time, using Lee 429240 slugs cast from my first boolit mould. Flying trash cans is what they are like.

After reading the aforementioned thread on Christmas Eve and then spending 4 hours on the computer, my interest in these simple tools was rekindled.

Now sling shots are a little different. Now most of them are Art? And made from exotic woods and/or composite materials. However this is somethnig that can be made buy just about anyone with any skills at all.

But what has really changed the most are the rubber bands. No longer is surgical tubing the material of choice. Now "Theraband" rules. What this stuff does for you is it increases velocity significantly over rubber tubing. More speed per pound of draw weight.

This material is used for resistance training in the excercise industry and comes in many different resistance levels. It is mostly available as flat sheets about 4-6" wide by 4' long. This bulk material is cut into strips around 1" wide by 18-24" long.

Whats really funny is that I had two different rolls of the stuff right in my house and never even considered it for my slingshots.

Now the preferred technique for accurately shooting one of these things is to hold it so the bands are vertical IE: the yoke is sideways. See pics below.

You aim over the top of the top band which effectively removes the windage component from the equation. Then it is just a matter of figuring out the elevation, and with practice this becomes second nature as you only have an effective range of less than 100 feet. Not to worry though, a .50 cal lead ball will still kill you inside of 20 yards easily if you get hit in the forehead,,, Which is a pretty big target.

I went to www.pocketpredator.com and watched the videos of todays guru of the slingshot world. Bill Hays is his name, and one of the videos on his site shows him putting 20 balls in a row thru a 1 3/8" dia hole at 40 feet!

His other videos teach you how to shoot just like him, and I have to tell you guys reading this,,,, It ain't that hard. They also show how to rig a sling shot in the new way, which I guess has been around for along time, but I just never saw it.

In short these things have come along way and are a powerful close range weapon.

Yesterday I started on the prototype of my new Slingshot, and I am using many of the things I learned from the small amount of reading I have done over the past couple of weeks. This one is only partially done and is only being made to finalize the design before I make the real one out of Micarta. It's just a test piece.

You can see it is different than what we grew up with.

Randy

[longbow]

Well, now you gone and done it! Now you have me interested again! Being an instinctive archer, a slingshot is a natural companion. I do have a couple but have not used them in years. I suspect that is about to change!

I also have several RB moulds from 00 buck to 0.735". My wife once used a 0.690" ball to get rid of an annoying black bear on our porch. That probably wasn't a real good idea but he left anyway. I am thinking 0.375" to maybe .440" is a good size range. I guess it depends on the strength of the slingshot bands some.

I better look at some videos and do some reading I guess. Like I need something else to do! Oh well, it will be fun.

Thanks for posting... I think!

Longbow

[Any Cal.]

There is a site with 16 ways of terminating slingshot bands, plus a bunch of other good info. Might Google it for ideas as you continue. Slingshots are good stuff, but if I built one I would have to buy a round ball mold and start casting for it, lay in a stock of flat bands, start research and construction on a Gen 2, I think I am better off without it...:-)

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
When you make your prototype are you having the fore thought of making them ambi??? Being left-handed I had to ask!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Greg: the design will work either handed the scollops for the fingers will just have to be done so they work either way. There is plenty of room on the thickness to make this work.

Anycal: the website? Or what did you google to find it?

Longbow: that 69 cal ball (11/16") would make quite an impression on someone, and these new slingshots are entirely capible of shooting one at 150FPS +. They will do nearly 250 fps with 1/2" steel balls.

Can you imagine getting fwapped in the head with a ball that big?

I shot .44 cal slugs for many years from Lee 429240SWC and they fly strait and hit hard. Just ask the bum I shot in the **** at 10 yards when I caught him rumaging thru my car at 2AM one Saturday night! He turned while rubbing his asse and I asked him if he'd like another? He declined and I was blinded by the sparks flying out of his rear as he departed at warp speed.

It is a useful tool.

Randy

[TCLouis]

Please keep us updated as your slingshot project evolves/matures.

Pictures will be good!

[Any Cal.]

Ok, dug it up. Try this page...http://www.melchiormenzel.de/making_rubber_attach.html and there may be other articles if you go to the main page.

[HollowPoint]

I happened to be watching a couple of How-To videos yesterday from some guy showing how to
cut Thera-Band rubber to use as slingshot bands.

Very interesting. In the end he showed as he shot his slingshots over a chronograph. Shooting
10 and 12 millimeter steel balls he was getting velocities of up to 1125 FPS.

My 45 caliber shooting hot loads hardly reaches those velocities.

I've read about the Spear-Gun bands being used as slingshot bands. Never tried
them myself but, if I understand correctly they will increase the power of your
slingshot but they're not optimum for increasing velocity.

HollowPoint

[Wal']

I will always have the memory's as a kid being about to release my chosen projectile when the rubber band or tube or whatever was being used to propel the projectile would break at full stretch resulting in the king of all bruises to the finger's that would take weeks to heal. :-D :( :(

[JIMinPHX]

The most powerful sling shots that I have seen had roller wheels at the top & connected the bands at the bottom. This let you start with a short distance from the yoke to the pocket & get a longer stretch on the bands when you pulled back. I was surprised how well that design worked. I had expected the rollers to add too much mass to the equation & slow things down too much, but I was wrong in that expectation.

[JIMinPHX]

I will always have the memory's as a kid being about to release my chosen projectile when the rubber band or tube or whatever was being used to propel the projectile would break at full stretch resulting in the king of all bruises to the finger's that would take weeks to heal. :-D :( :(

I also remember a marble that didn't exit the pouch, but instead came back at me & got me in the face. Thank god that was not a particularly powerful slingshot.

[I'll Make Mine]

In the end he showed as he shot his slingshots over a chronograph. Shooting
10 and 12 millimeter steel balls he was getting velocities of up to 1125 FPS.

I have to say I'm skeptical on this point -- makes me wonder if there was a calibration problem with the chronograph or a unit conversion error; I wouldn't expect even an empty pouch to get to transonic velocity under rubber power, never mind one with, what, forty or fifty grains of steel payload?

[alrighty]

How about a slingshot for hunting and Fishing........interesting
http://gunslingersling.com/cheifaj.html

[Artful]

Ahh, the Sling bow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6LxKfpAPYA

[ShootR]

Looks like something neat to make. I think I have most of the material around already. Thanks for the idea.

[Tonto]

Clearly need to be added to Feinstein's list.....
Amazing....

[W.R.Buchanan]

Hollow Point: the actual numbers are more like 250fps for 10MM/3/8" steel balls. However that is nothing to sneeze at either.

With 1/2 steel balls or you can easily get 225 fps and with 1/2" lead balls about 175-200 depending on your physical abilities. Either of those projectiles will kill a man easily inside of 30 yards with a forehead or temple shot.

My design piece is evolving slowly because everytime I make a change to the profile of the piece I play with it for a few days to test the ergonomics. Usually at night while watching liberal *****s on TV!. And yes Greg, I put finger cutouts on the left side as well.

What I showed above has evolved into this at this point. It is really close to what I want and I will probably make one out of good wood when I get back from SHOT. This prototype is made from two pieces of 1/2" particle board glued together. It is rough and not pretty in the slightest but it is serving its purpose to get the final shape close to the finished designbefore wasting good material on a failure.

I found some really dark Walnut at a Hardwoods distributor in Oxnard CA (close to me) but the 4 x 7" blanks I need will be about $10 ea. Really don't want to waste any of those. With an oil finish this stuff is so dark it will be nearly black!

I am close enough that I can now draw it on the computer and make a drawing that I can do the bulk of shaping on the mill and then rout the edge radius' with the router table. A little hand work shaping the finger cutouts, and then the finish work and it's a done deal.

I am using Bill Hays' universal band mounting idea so it can use any type of bands you might have.

Here's what I've got now. You'll notice that I removed the finger grooves in the handle portion as they proved to be too specific to my hand and didn't really contribute anything meaningful to the grip on the thing. I also radiused the entire piece.

As it sits, the design is very similar to my original Whamo Slingshot from the 50's with an angled handle. Surprising how little things will have changed. Hell, there are still plenty of guys making them out of forked sticks so it isn't Rocket Science.

As I stated above somewhere my original Whamo slingshot came with instructions telling you to hold the thing in your hand with your index finger on one side of the yoke and the thumb on the other, and the rest of your fingers gripping the handle. You would hold the slingshot at a 45 degree angle and aim over the top of the top limb.

This has evolved to holding the slingshot horizontal and aiming over te top of the top band, thus completely removing the windage component of the shot. This is why the handle is angled now.

Not much change from what I've been doing for 50+ years, except for the rubber bands.

Randy

[olafhardt]

I use Sparco #105 rubber banpo Ppds. I bought a 1lb box years ago for a few bucks and have most of them left. Op

[Stephen Cohen]

I will always have the memory's as a kid being about to release my chosen projectile when the rubber band or tube or whatever was being used to propel the projectile would break at full stretch resulting in the king of all bruises to the finger's that would take weeks to heal. :-D :( :(

You bring back painfull memories, worst was when you had sweaty hands and fork slipped out of your hand while at full stretch.

[Cap'n Morgan]

When I was a kid I carried a slingshot round my neck wherever I went. My dad made the fork from cobber pipe brazed together at the middle. The bands were cut from inner tube, only red inner tubes would do - the modern black butyl wasen't elastic enough.

After reading this thread I decided it's time to make me another slingshot. In the meantime slingshots has become illegal here in Denmark, but I couldn't care less. Already got myself six feet of silver Thera-Band. Now all that remain is to work out a snazzy design in 3D and get the old mill working on a slap of aluminum.

[EMC45]

Sling bow. Very cool.

[longbow]

Sling bows have been around for many many years and they work but I wouldn't expect to get bow like accuracy from them as they do not have the stability of a bow. Any "bow hand" movement at release translates into error at the target. In general, longer limbed bows are more accurate than shorter limbed bows and generally target bows are equipped with stabilizers for just that reason.

Nonetheless, they would be useful for emergency, fun, survival and moderate range hunting.

I have often thought of making one but I have so many bows, I just haven't bothered. However, seeing this thread and watching some of the Slingshot channel videos has me wanting a high powered sling shot so maybe I put a sling bow attachment together too. Why not?

Another project I don't have time for... but have to do!

Longbow

[Bwana]

Never really got into slingshots. However, when stationed in Germany in the early 70's one of the MP E-6s (that guarded our site) had a wristrocket that he repeatedly, without missing, used to put pebbles into the end of a large coffee can at twenty yards. It was something to watch.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Ah yes,,, you haven't lived until you've eaten a broken band.. I have also had the actual slingshot come back at me once but I was quick enough to sidestep it.

This is one of the advantages of the Wrist Rocket design. However since WR's have surgical tube for bands they usually break right where they hook to the yoke. This results in a face full of rubber band.

This is a good reason not to run bands that are showing crazing or separation. Also keeping the slingshot out of the sun light when storing it will make the bands last longer. The rubber used is very sensitive to UV degradation.

Randy

[izzyjoe]

i really like my new style slingshot, you put you're hand though the brace that rest on you're wrist. that way it can't slip out of you're hand. but the tubing now day's suck's, i've gone though 3 sets of them in 1 year. i shoot mine in the back yard when i'm bored, .440 RB's work good. these day's i've tried to find different way's to have fun since i've slowed way down on shootin'!

[Silver Eagle]

Have shot many a slingshot or wrist rocket. I ALWAYS wear glasses of some short while shooting those. Not fun explaining a large welt from a broken band to people. Used to pick up iron pellets at the nearby rail yard that were about 3/8". Cheap, somewhat accurate. Favorite ammo was 3/8" steel or OOO Buck (OO Buck for closer ranges).
Try bands from different manufacturers. Some last better or are more powerful than others. If you can get bulk latex tubing, you can make your own bands.

[FrankG]

Theres a fella that has an ad in back of Backwoodsman mag for slingshot bands . I bought some and they are real lively !

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well,,, I managed to convert my freehand design to a CAD drawing and surprisingly it came out nearly the same as the original. Any differences are minor, but now the CNC mill can trace the outline of the part to a piece of 1/4-1/2" plastic that will be the router template.

After all the holes are drilled and the band cuts are made the part can be traced with the template, rough cut out, and then the template is doublestick taped to the surface and the router table is used to profile the blank. Then a roundover bit is used to put the radius' on the edges.

At that point the part needs only some file work for the thumb rests (on both sides Greg) and then sanding for the oil finish. I omitted the fore finger groove as it proved to be uncomfortable. ( this is why you play with this stuff for a while before you commit to a design)

Yes, thanks to a member here,(Thanks Dan) it looks like gunstock wood will be the first ones, so it has to have a proper Oil finish.

This project is coming along slowly but should yield a pretty neat result. Stay tuned.

Randy

[longbow]

Randy:

I like that design. I thought when I saw you first post that the angled grip was a very good idea. oddly, I see very few slingshots on the internet that are of that design. Most seem to be vertical "Y's".

What are the holes in the limbs for?

Are you using tubing or flat bands?

I am thinking of following you lead here and making myself a fairly powerful flat band slingshot using the Theraband. I hadn't realized it is so readily available and inexpensive.

Like I said though, I really don't need another project but I guess it keeps me off the street and out of trouble... well it keeps me off the street.

Mine will be hand cut/carved though, no CNC machine here.

Longbow

[Lucky Joe]

Keep the pictures coming Randy, I have this thread subscribed to.

[Artful]

What are the holes in the limbs for?

Longbow

The holes at the end of the slit are keep help keep from splitting usually, I do that to cracks in aluminum receivers from the guns getting battered at ejection ports.

[PatMarlin]

What CAD are you running Randy, and what control is on your router? Very cool.

I never used a slingshot much. Now days any skill like that is worth learning.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Pat: Bobcad is my CAD program but I will be using my Prototrak/Bridgeport to cut the template. The router Is just an old Craftsman Router bolted to the bottom of a piece of plywood and used as a router table.

Longbow: What you see on the left drawing are what are known as "universal limbs." They can run any type of band. The holes are for the band bindings when you run the bands on the outside of the limbs. There is a slit that I haven't put in yet that makes it so you can stretch the tiedown material while attaching the bands to the limb. Cutting the slits is the very last thing you do. See the pic below I have drawn in where the slits will go on the prototype.

With this setup you can run flat bands on the outside of the limbs, flat bands over the tops of the limbs, or you can use the Chinese bands which are smaller round tubing which is threaded thru the holes and over the top with both ends of each band terminating at the pouch. Looks like double round bands on each side. The hole in the grip is for a wrist lanyard which is a safety for when your hand cramps and you loose your grip at full draw. Without it,,, you eat the slingshot, which could be unpleasant.

Got to www.pocketpredator.com to see all of these variations in one of his videos.

The holes are also used to locate the template to the blank. The plastic routing template is held to the blank with double stick tape and indexed in position by dowel pins in the plastic template. The holes and the depressions for the tiedowns are all done when the blank is still a 4.5 x 7" rectangle and are done first in the mill so that they are the same on every blank.

The blank is then rough sawed to remove as much material as possible then the template is attached and is used as a guide for the strait router bit with bearing on he end. The bearing runs on the template, and traces the pattern perfectly everytime.

The template is then removed and a corner radius bit of 1/4-3/8"R with bearing on the end is used to roundover all of the edges. The bearing follows the established form of the part you are making.

When my shop was located in Ventura I was very fortunate to have a plastic fabrication shop next door. They did EVERYTHING with routers, and their work was second to no one elses I have seen.

I learned alot of router techniques from those guys and I taught them how to use the bridgeport mill I sold them which helped them get more precise.

Personal Relationships is where it is at. You can find out just about anything you want to know or accomplish anything with judicious use of personal relationships. It's what makes the world go round.

Randy

[longbow]

Randy:

I had the lanyard hole figured out but the slots and other holes had me a bit confused. I kinda figured it was for options.

I am thinking the flat bands over top look good to me.

I decided I would take out my old Wrist Rocket with some 00 buck yesterday. Not only are the tapered tubes a little short and not terribly powerful, one broke! These are near new tubes too. We have pretty limited supply locally so when I saw these advertised as "faster" due to taper I got them. They really aren't!

Anyway, I can order some Theraband gold then cut strips which should be vastly superior.

I have a variety of round ball moulds from 00 buck to 0.735" to try out. I am thinking the 0.375", 0.440" and 0.490" are the best candidates depending on band strength and stretch.

Longbow

[Artful]

Well, learn something new everyday.

[W.R.Buchanan]

well,, I programmed the shape yesterday and was surprised to find it actually ran the first time thru. Most times the 4 digit tangent points between curves will round off the wrong way and the machine won't run the program. In this case BoBCaD's 5 digit tangent points allowed me to round the numbers off to the correct number for the machine to swallow. This was a fairly complicated tool path with numerous reverse curves. I guess I got lucky.

I then made a fixture plate with the three drilled and tapped hold down holes out of a piece of 3/8" plexiglass. The tool path was traced onto the tooling plate and the program tested by cutting the tool path into the tooling plate.

Then a blank was cut supposedly oversized so there was material to be removed all around the part to insure complete clean up. This turned out wrong as I didn't locate the holes in the right place and ended up not getting complete clean up on the top edge of the part. I will have to make this part over again but for now it is just fine.

The blank was then bolted to the fixture and the program ran with the cutter compensation telling the machine the cutter was .030 larger than it actually was, so as to leave room for a finish cut or second pass with the cutter comp set at the exact tool diameter. This was done to insure a good finish on the edge of the template so the router bit will run smoothly around it.

In attempts to clean up the portion of the part that didn't get milled due to inaccurate placement of the hold down holes I reran the program using ever smaller cutter comps. I stopped just before I got complete clean up however the limbs which were supposed to be 1.000 wide are now .970 wide. IE the template is proportionally smaller in every dimension instead of being right on. This is why I have to remake the part eventually.

As it sits rather than using the router I can just bolt a wood blank atop the fixture plate and use the Mill to cut out the blank. For production, the template will be the faster way to accomplish repetative parts. But since the machine is already setup, I will make the first ones on the mill just because I can.

Here's some pics of the process and the finished, but slightly undersized template. No one would ever know except me, unless they measured the different places and found them to be close to nice round numbers, but still,,, it has to be redone right so as to not cause unforseen problems down the road.

The lesson here is that I generally have to do everything at least twice!

Just a flaw in my character.:mrgreen:

Randy

After cogitating on this for a while I have decided that I need to move the two hold down holes in the limbs 1/8" towards the inside of the yoke. This will give more strength to the limbs which are going to have the slits cut in them for tiedown bands to run thru. This will mean the fixture plate will have to be modified or remade.

Like I said,,, everything must be done twice.

[olafhardt]

Well I cut a fork out of a bush, get some string, rubber bands and scrap leather and just put it all together. The resulting creation is so accurate that if I am standing on the lake bank I can hit the water about every shot. I also like revolvers, lever action rifles, and break action shotguns all of which I can shoot as well as I do as I shoot my slingshot. For ammo I use all natural, pure organic rocks

[W.R.Buchanan]

Olaf: this isn't about how simple you can make it,,, It's about how hard you can make it!

Here's some pics of the wood that Treekiller Dan sent me. I got 4 pieces, enough to make 8 slingshots once split in half and planed to thickness. Completely usless for anything but a door stop otherwise.

Will be put to good use. Thanks Dan!

Randy

[Willbird]

I happened to be watching a couple of How-To videos yesterday from some guy showing how to
cut Thera-Band rubber to use as slingshot bands.

Very interesting. In the end he showed as he shot his slingshots over a chronograph. Shooting
10 and 12 millimeter steel balls he was getting velocities of up to 1125 FPS.

My 45 caliber shooting hot loads hardly reaches those velocities.

I've read about the Spear-Gun bands being used as slingshot bands. Never tried
them myself but, if I understand correctly they will increase the power of your
slingshot but they're not optimum for increasing velocity.

HollowPoint

Those should make a sonic crack ?? They may not go that fast for very long. When I was a kid a wrist rocket was my constant companion, I was darn good with it. A big lunk of a bully was getting ready to hop a chain link fence to come after me and I shot a hole in the fake plastic batting helmet he was wearing (the ones the old ZIP's ice cream place used to sell you filled with ice cream) I was darn proud of my shooting, dad hid the wrist rocket for about 6 mos after that, If I did have the concept that it could have killed him I did not care at the time.

[TreeKiller]

I was kind of concerned about the grain in some of the pieces as to holding up to the strain of a full draw. Hope they work ok.
Dan

[W.R.Buchanan]

Dan: they will all be fine.

My biggest problem is finding someone with a planer to bring the pieces to thickness after I cut them in half, working on that right now.

Randy

[TreeKiller]

Dan: they will all be fine.

My biggest problem is finding someone with a planer to bring the pieces to thickness after I cut them in half, working on that right now.

Randy
I should of done that for you.
Dan

[KYRick]

Aw, this reminds me of quality time spent with my grandson last summer. I bought both of us slingshots and we would jump on the 4-wheeler and go back to the pond and shoot imaginary bears and alligators. Memorys I hope to never forget.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well,,,, I found some wood at the Woodcrafters Store a few days ago that I just couldn't pass up. They had two boards of Peruvian Walnut.. I didn't even know they had walnuts in Peru, :veryconfu but what the hey.

This wood is nearly dark chocolate brown, and has some interesting grain.

Here's some pics of the first one I made today and you can see some of the grain on the sides of the piece.

Keep in mind that these still have to go thru the router table and get sanded filled and oil finished just like a gun stock.

And the project continues at a leisurely pace.

Randy

[longbow]

Looks good. So you are not laminating this one? Just one piece of wood? The grain looks pretty good though. I make selfbows that are not laminated or backed so this would be a "self slingshot".

I'll bet it looks good when you get it finished.

I should get going on one too but I have too many half finished projects now! Maybe in a bit.

What I should do is order some Theraband so I have it when I need it.

What flat band are you planning to use?

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

LB: I have so many unfinished projects that I always hesitate to start a new one. However these just don't take the much time or effort.

The vast majority of time I have spent on this project has been spent fondeling the pieces I've done to root out the ergonomics of the thing.

Once I get the router table set up. I could completely blank one out (less sanding and finish) in 30 minutes or less. So you see it's more about the process than how long the final product takes. I could easily do 20 in a short day.

It will take a few days to apply the oil finish to the thing once it is sanded smooth. There's just no way around that, since it takes time for the oil to dry.

What can be done is to blank out a bunch of them and then finish them as need arises. I figure I need about 6 for my own personal use to stash in cars, the jeep, my bugout packs etc. Then there's friends and relatives. My Bro in Law has already shown an interest so he'll get one. It's the type of thing that lends itself to gifting, as long as you give it to the right kind of person. Not everybody gets a custom slingshot everyday.

I got some Theraband Gold which seems to be fairly heavy. I believe it is the heaviest stuff they make. I've also got some blue stuff but it is really light and even if you fold it many times it still is too light to be of use. I can still make some strips for anchoring the main bands to the slingshot itself out of the blue stuff.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well Friday I finally bought a Bosch Router Table(some assembly required) and since I have an extra router laying around collecting dust I sacrificed it to the project. This is something I have wanted for my shop for a long time, and it will get used for things other than making slingshots.

I got the thing together and set up a 3/8" roundover bit and attacked the existing blank. After a few minutes and then some sanding this is where I'am at now.

Just a little more finish work and this one is ready to rig up and test.

The wood is very dark but really it is not something to make gunstocks out of as the grain is layers of very hard and VERY VERY soft wood. Due the the complicated shape of the part it is impossible to have the router bit cut with the grain at all times. As a result there are areas that are ruffled up that have to be filled with Tru Oil and sanding dust in order to fill them so I can end up with a gun quality finish.

This is all part of the learning curve and it is enjoyable to do.

Hers's a pic of the semi finished slingshot.

Randy

[longbow]

Looking good!

[Lucky Joe]

You are coming close to completion, thought it might be time to bring this up. I plan to build or buy a sling shot and make some of these.
615536155261551

[W.R.Buchanan]

Joe: 1/2" is a good size. I think a 1/2" lead ball is 175 gr. That is a good all around size for target shooting and "Pest Control."

My feelings on slingshot ammo is that the projectile needs to be big enough to make a real impression on someone. If it will do that to a person then taking a game bird with a head shot is going to be a viable option if you need it. Also if you need it, being able to make a significant impression on a persons forehead with a 1/2"- 5/8" lead ball could be a valuable thing to have in your back pack. You're more likely to have a slingshot with you in a backpack than a gun. They don't weigh you down like a gun.

I tend to rate these things based on "Fwapping Power." Fwapping Power is a subjective term usually based on shooting something you shouldn't be shooting at, and rating the power based on how hard you either laugh or cringe, or how surprised you are at the outcome.

Sometimes ratings of "My Gawd" or "Oh Ship" are appropriate. "Holy Ship" is a very high rating.

These terms are all relative to how much perceived damage you have done, but a 1/2" lead ball at 150 FPS is lethal force out to 20, maybe 25 yards from a sling shot with a 30lb pull.

All you have to do is connect.

Randy

[longbow]

I did some "penetration" testing a long time ago and not with a very high powered slingshot, using round balls of 0.375", 0.440", 0.490" and 0.690". The target was the side of a corrugated cardboard box.

Not very scientific but it more or less fit Randy's fwapping power description. It seems to me the 0.440" ball won that test with both penetration and deformation (of target). The smaller ball penetrated better and cleaner but didn't seem to have the smashing power and the larger balls tended to crush without much penetration. They also didn't have very good range.

Of course a more powerful slingshot would change things some but my impression is that something of around .44 cal to maybe .54 cal seems the right size to be able to hold in the pouch and still have enough weight, velocity and range to do some damage.

Once I get some Theraband and make me a new fangled modern flat band slingshot I will have to retest to see what works for "magnum" loads!

Darn it randy, I just didn't need to be starting another project but this one has my interest!

Longbow

[429421Cowboy]

Very nice! A new take on the old classic! I am going to look into getting some Theraband, i did not know how much better it was for making bands.
I will have to dig out my old slingshot now, i forgot how much fun they can be, a true instinctive shooting style that i have always loved. I met Cheif AJ when i was a kid, he was wicked good with a Red Ryder or a slingshot, little did he know i had been obsessed with getting good with both, he encouraged me and i have always liked them. One of our favorite tricks was getting a pinch of bb gun or shotgun pellets and wrapping them real tight in brown paper, then launching them at stray cats in the garbage cans or just about anything else, they would pepper something pretty good!

[Lucky Joe]

I did some "penetration" testing a long time ago and not with a very high powered slingshot, using round balls of 0.375", 0.440", 0.490" and 0.690". The target was the side of a corrugated cardboard box.Longbow

The heavier larger balls will have more fwap to them for sure. However for fwaping frogs in a ditch or rats by a corn crib the #1 pellet should do the job. As a kid I shot plenty of frogs and rats with a Daisy pump BB gun and the #1 ball is a mega fwapper compared to the Daisy.

[longbow]

Now that there is a good technical term with gusto ~ "mega fwapper"! I am liking that!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Longbow: .44's and 54's will be the most effective compromise between size and weight. If you had a slingshot with 35-40 lbs of pull then you could get enough speed on the .69's to do some real damage. With my Wrist Rocket and heavy surgical tube at about 30-35 lbs of pull my projectile of choice was my .44 240 gr Lee SWC's. They fly sideways and hit hard.

IF you look up the Slingshot Channel on Google or Joerg Sprav on Youtube, you'll see that he has devices that are crosses between spearguns and crossbows, powered by multiple bands that will shoot larger projectiles with serious power.

Your .69 caliber lead balls which should be in the neighborhood of 400 grains from one of these devices would be pretty lethal.

He has one that shoots 1" steel balls. It has 200 bls of cocking force and uses a winch to cock it just like a medevil crossbow. It will shoot that ball nearly thru a CAR DOOR!

Now that's some serious fwapping power!

Randy

[longbow]

Yeah, I figured the .440" and .490" seemed to do the best. I don't have a .54. My next size up is 0.662" which might not be too bad from a stout set of rubber bands. The 0.690" seemed a bit underpowered/overweight. I am sure it would hurt (I wouldn't offer to catch one!) but it didn't seem to have much range. In terms of fwapping power I think it would be low... now close range bonking power is a whole different kettle of fish, or raccoons, or stray cats, or...? Like I said, I would want to try catching one!

Longbow

[Willbird]

Boy I dunno about that walnut un laminated. We pulled some walnut out of a dozer pile and cut and split it for firewood, you could split a 24" log with a 2lb sledge and a wedge, tap the wedge to get it started then give it a good wack, the easiest splitting wood I ever saw.

Maybe the peruvian stuff is different, what we had was american walnut, which is drastically different than english walnut.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Will: I don't know either, and if it fails easily then I will do something else. I still have the piece of Micarta I can use although it is kind of expensive.

I know that I can get about 100 ish blanks out of a 4x8 sheet of birch marine grade plywood at just over $100 cut to size. If I go into production that will be a way to go.

I think the stuff will be OK since all it has to resist is about 20-30 lbs of force. It would have to be pretty pathetic to fail with only that much force on it.

Randy

[Willbird]

Will: I don't know either, and if it fails easily then I will do something else. I still have the piece of Micarta I can use although it is kind of expensive.

I know that I can get about 100 ish blanks out of a 4x8 sheet of birch marine grade plywood at just over $100 cut to size. If I go into production that will be a way to go.

I think the stuff will be OK since all it has to resist is about 20-30 lbs of force. It would have to be pretty pathetic to fail with only that much force on it.

Randyi just not so fondly recall when the wrist rocket latex tube would break and I got slapped in the face :-).

[williamwaco]

You guys gotta see this video . . .

Sorta reminds me of myself . . . . NOT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ieWrWLjii0&feature=em-share_video_user




.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Will: I 've eaten more than one piece of tube myself. Part of it is recognizing when the rubber is dead and replacing it before that happens.

The Key is looking for "Crazing" in the rubber. Rubber acts just like plastic in that regard and when you start seeing signs of the material coming apart it's time to replace it.

I finally got around to replacing the tubes on my Pocket Rocket which I've had for 40 years on Saturday. I used some 3/8" surgical tube I got in Hawaii when we went there of vacation 15 years ago. Luckily it had been stored in a drawer so UV light couldn't get to it. I had two 6 foot pieces and one was completely ready to come apart so it went to the trash.

The damn thing is so hard to pull I can barely operate it. I am estimating 35lbs. it will shoot a 1/2 steel ball thru both sides of a heavy cardboard box and take a heavy towel hanging in the center thru the back side with it. I was impressed although I can't hit anything with it yet.

All of this is about the excercise and once I start shooting it alot it will take a while to get my upper body back in shape.

I am getting closer to finish on the walnut prototype. I have to say I am somewhat disappointed in the way the Peruvian Walnut is finishing up. The stuff is so dark to begin with that anything you put on it just makes it darker and obscurrs the grain. It also is very easy to get chips in the edges that are difficult to fix. Instead of having this spectacular grain that I thought would look really cool, it is just turning out "Dark Brown!" I could have done better with a piece of plywood and some brown spray paint.

It's OK for a first attempt but not even close to what I'm looking for.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

I did manage to finish up the finish on the prototype I looks dark brown! Came out nice and smooth but unless you get it into the direct sunlight you can't see any grain, and you can't see that much in the sun either. Not at all what I was looking for.

I will finish it up with bands and a pouch and start shooting it soon. Will keep you posted.

Randy

[longbow]

Looking forward to more photos.

I gotta get going on one too but like I said, I am half way through way too many projects. I'll get to it though!

Longbow

[jeepyj]

I too would like to build one of these for camp any possibility of see how exactly the bands look attached do they simply go through the holes? Are you using some sort of leather for the basket like we used to?
Thank you in advance Jeepyj

[W.R.Buchanan]

go to youtube and search "cutting theraband" and watch "Gamekeeper's" two videos on cutting the theraband and attaching it to the pouch and slingshot. Very informative. easy to do with the right tools whihc are very cheap and you may already hve them.

On another note: there was another 2 videos from a guy named "Torsten" who does mlutiple lightweight bands and uses the "Butterfly or Albatross" method of shooting where you pull the bands well past your head and let fly.

This guy was shooting slingshots with three bands of these light materials which were averaging around 6Kg of force to pull. ( about 13-14lbs.) He was getting 100 Mps over his chrony.

One person who posted earlier on this thread was talking about seeing 1045 fps, however this was probably Torstens video and his Chrony was set up Metric so 104.5 meters per second is more believeable. Without getting out the calculator 100 meters is @110 yards or 330 feet so 104.5 MPS would be around 350fps and that was with 12mm/ 1/2" steel balls.

The backstop he was shooting into was a large beach towel and it was getting fwapped pretty good.

1/2 balls at 350fps would be more than enough for the intended purposes of these slingshots!

That's a Taylor Knockdown factor of 3.75. A .22 LR is 1.4 TKD and a .45 ACP 230gr at 900 is 13.7.

IE: it would hurt real bad, if it didn't kill ya!

Off to the Crafts Store.

Randy

[jeepyj]

Thanks Randy, This is going to be fun. One knows we must go from one addiction to another
Jeepyj

[LaPoint]

I still have a Herter's version of the old Rist Rocket. I'll have to replace the tubes and give it a try. We used taconite pellets for ammo. I think they were about 1/2 in or so in diameter. We got the pellets from the RR tracks leading away from the the taconite plant.

[W.R.Buchanan]

So I went to the crafts store and bought a cutter. It was not cheap at $20, the cutting board material was $18!
I can now cut Theraband.

However I have nothing to hook the Theraband to. IE I need to make pouches.

Apparently the hot tip is Kangaroo hide., If you don't already know "Roo" hide is pretty tough stuff and it is also thin and light. They make track shoes out of it.

So my big project for today is to find some Kangaroo hide to make pouches out of.

Tandy Leather is the first place I'll look. I'll let you know what I find.

Randy

[Chicken Thief]

I bought a roller-cutter on the bay for under $10 and use a plastic kitchen cutting board. The backside is usually not used so is fine for cutting rubber.

[I'll Make Mine]

Apparently the hot tip is Kangaroo hide., If you don't already know "Roo" hide is pretty tough stuff and it is also thin and light. They make track shoes out of it.

The best bullwhips are also braided from strips of kangaroo leather, everything except the popper (which, as I recall, is made from cowhide latigo). Most durable material available for the body and tail of the whip.

I'd be mildly surprised if Tandy had kangaroo on a routine basis; a quick Google turned up David Morgan (http://www.davidmorgan.com/kangarooskins.html), who sell kangaroo skins (and offer a nicely priced sample pack that should make at least two pouches, possibly four, from the six different weight and color sample pieces).

[jeepyj]

Randy,
It's only been 48+\- hours since reading your post and I can't get enough. I obtained my theraband, a roller cutter, made a casting mould prototype with the material ordered for the finished one, casted 36 1/2" lead balls and designed my design for the wood. I can't wait to have it all come together
Thanks again Tim (jeepyj)

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tim: Good for you! I managed to pick up some nice thin leather from an outfit in town that make high end leather jackets. I got my cutter and board yesterday so I have got everything necessary to assemble and complete my first one.

Maybe this week end.

Going to Front Sight next week end so I have to load a bunch of ammo this week end, but I think I can work it in.

Be sure to check out as many videos on Youtube as you can. There is a wealth of info and how to's on there.

Pay special attention to Gamekeeper john and 1611Torsten, both of these gusy are way high up the slingshot food chain. The Torsten guys shoots butterfly style, and in one video he shoots some 8mm balls at 525fps! Taht's nearly as fast as my German Pellet guns with a lot bigger projectile.

Your slingshots will be a good addition to your next Jeep trip.

Randy

[jeepyj]

Randy,
Thanks, I have definitely been watching some of the masters on YouTube. It's a amazing resource. I'm going to knock off work early and try to head to camp for the weekend. While there I will have a bit of withdrawal from this site as there is no Internet connection. Good trade-off though ice fishing for lake trout and some pistol shooting as well. I'll update with photos next week as things unfold.
Tim (jeepyj)

[W.R.Buchanan]

I am just about there. I got bands cut and a pouchmade and then I discovered that you need four hands to hold the pouch, band and then wrap it, to get it done right.

Got a couple of clamps today at HF and need to make a simple jig to hold the whole mess and then I will be there.

I finished the actually wooden part the Fork today buy applying Wax to the exterior. It made the wood really shine and in the sun it looks pretty nice, still too dark for my tastes but it is plenty good enough for my first attempt.

I will take some pics of it when I get it rigged up tomorrow.

YJ: I don't know about "Ice Fishing," it was mid 70's here in CA today.

Randy

[lreed]

:-PWhy are you fellers calling a"flipper" a slingshot? A slingshot is a different thing, using two thongs connected to a pouch and slung over or underhanded and releasing one of the thongs at bottom or top of arc,and could throw rocks of several oz a goodly distance.The Romans,I think used lead for boolets,they was first.
I remember about the end of WW2 when they started using synthetic rubber for auto inner tubes there was a rush to glom all the red inner tubes as they still had natural rubber in them,about like the wheel weights are today,they are always improving things.
Call'em as you wish they are still flippers to me. lreed

[W.R.Buchanan]

Ireed: What you are talking about is a "sling" as used by David to slay Goliath last night on TV. (the Bible)

Slings take a really long time to get good enough to hit anything with. I've tried and have yet to get anything to go even in the general direction of where I want.

However if you are hearding goats in the wilderness and there is nothing else to do for hours and days on end I guess you could eventually get good with one. People have, and if I was transported back in time I would start practicing as soon as I hit the ground.

"Slingshots" use rubber bands. They didn't have rubber bands in 4000BC.

Randy

[I'll Make Mine]

Yep, what he said -- what Americans call a "slingshot" or "flipper", the Brits call a "catapult". Same device -- forked stick and elastic, give or take some refinements.

For what it's worth, I got a chance to use an ancient type sling once, and had no trouble at all getting the shots to go forward (as opposed to up, backward, or sidewise); getting close to an intended impact point was another thing entirely, but it took me three summer camps to get to hitting the gold with a bow, even at twenty yards. I doubt a similar level of accuracy would take much longer with a sling, once the basic techniques of stone selection, throwing stroke, and release were mastered.

[Artful]

Sling


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APExNLO1oHY

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well,,,,After I built my band holding jig today I rigged up a set of bands which consist of two strips of Theraband Gold. It is stout!

Here it is all rigged up and ready to go. Haven't shot it yet but the pull weight with two strips of Theraband Gold is about 30 lbs and it's all I can do to hold it and I am not even remotely steady and my hand shakes like crazy at full draw. There will be some strength training coming along with this device.

The lanyard on it is to prevent you from eating the wood part, which could easily happen if you relax your grip for even a second.

I will start shooting tomorrow.

Here's pics of the finished slingshot.

This was a fun project, and I would like to tell you that it came out exactly like what I wanted it to be. But,,,It did come out exactly like "I thought I wanted it." It is not bad, but I already see areas for improvement.

Now that I have got the Theraband part of the equation beat and have the jig made up to rig the bands and pouches, I can concentrate on the yoke itself and refine the design so it is easier to hold onto.

The angled grip is a keeper, However my yoke is too wide, and I think running the bands over the top of the uprights is a better way to go as the whole unit can be smaller, shorter and thus there would be less leverage on your hand. More on the order of the size of a folding wrist rocket's yoke and handle.

The good thing about this project is that it really doesn't take that much time to build one. Especially after you get set up to make the bands and pouches. I've got about $50 in this complete project over a couple of months, and most of that was buying the rotary cutter and cutting mat.

More to come and I'll keep you posted as my shooting skills re-emerge.

Randy

[jeepyj]

Your workmanship is exceptional. It is easy to tell that you are patent and a true craftsman. Nicely done. Not to mention a good typist.
Tim (Jeepyj)

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yhanks on the slingshot however MY typing sucks. I spend more time correcting my typos than I do typing in the first place. There were three is this sentence alone.

Randy

[Philngruvy]

I spend more time correcting my typos than I do typing in the first place. There were three is this sentence alone.

Randy

I think it is highly commendable that you take the time to proof what you type before you post it. BTW, I love your slingshot project. I dug my old wrist rocket out a couple of weeks ago. I need to reband it. I think I might try some of that band material instead of surgical tubing. Oh look out rabbits!!!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Phil: Theraband is available in tube also. I have a chunk and it is gray in color, it is slightly less powereful than 3/8 surgical tube which I can barely pull to full draw. Make sure to save the pouch from the Wrist Rocket, and if it is an original, the plastic fittings on the pouch work really well for threading the tube on. Wet the tube with saliva to slide it on the yoke and over the hump about 1". Don't shoot it until tomorrow after the spit dries out or you'll eat a band!


Well,,, I started shooting my new creation today. So far my accuracy is absimal but getting better quickly.

The Slingshot itself shoots hard! I have a bunch of 1/2" steel balls and they weigh @125 grs and they are the ammo of choice so far. It is hard to describe the power factor, but I think it is less than lethal unless you get lucky or unlucky depending on your relation to the shot.

I also have some .54 cal lead balls that weigh 236 gr. You wouldn't survive a head shot from one of those inside of 20 yds. My current target box is very heavy cardboard like you would ship something very heavy in. The 54's will go thru the front and take a doubled tee shirt (4 layers) 2" out the back side of the box!

I shot 20 rounds this morning and am going back for 20 more tonite. When I started this last nite my left hand/wrist /arm shook so much at full draw that I could barely hold the slingshot. (note; Lanyard in pics above, it's there for a reason!) after one session today I am already starting to be able to hold longer at full draw and the shaking is starting to subside. This is all about using forgotten muscles.

More to come.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

The otheh thing I started today was a new target box, since my old Cardboard box is just about kaput.

I just happened to to have an old plastic box similar to a milk crate sitting outside my garage for the last 6-8 years with some axle parts in it.

I cleaned it up and will screw a piece of 3/4" plywood to the bottom and hang a piece of carpet in it and will be good to go.

I post a pic as soon as it is in place somewhere where near misses won't hurt anything.

On another note; I found out my current creation will not shoot 3/8" steel balls at all. I tried about 6 of them and everyone went willy nilly in some other direction. IE I don't think they have enough mass to soak up the power of the bands, and so they get launched in some direction as soon as the pouch starts to open no matter where it is. I know when they hit variious things in the garage they had no force behind them.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Ok: after a month the accuracy is still abismal. I am used to hitting what I shoot at with a slingshot, and the results I was getting with my earlier creation just sucked to be blunt. I could not control side to side shot placement or elevation with any consistancy whatsoever.

I went back to the internet and watched many videos over and over. "1611torsten" is about the best shot out there. There is videos of him hitting beer cans consistantly at 40+ meters. He does shoot with the "butterfly" technique, both arms outstretched and a significantly longer draw length which adds velocity without excessively heavy bands. With two strips of Theraband black he is getting 250 fps with 12MM/1/2" steelballs and a 6Kg draw weight, which is 13.2 lbs or essentially nothing.

That in itself is not where the accuracy is at however.

His slingshots all have the limbs spaced close together. 3/4-1" apart. They are very short and small overall. Bands are attached so they go over the top of the limbs thus keeping them close together.

After much cogitation on this subject I have deduced that the closer the bands are together, the less difference there can be in the "Drawn Length " of the bands on any given shot. This translates into less induced error in the launch.

Here's the deal. My earlier design has the limbs spaced about 2.5 " apart. In addition the bands were attached to the outside of the yoke and thus the bands were 4.5" apart.

If you look at the slingshot when drawn the bands and yoke form a triangle. In order for the shot to go strait the triangle MUST be a perfect Isocolese triangle, any deviation from that sends the shot away from the longer band. The wider the base the more error is induced with less actual mis-alignment and the greater the effect of that mis-alignment of the yoke to the direction of the shot.

Conversely the narrower the base leg the less effect that error has on the shot. I figured this out by watching a kid from the Balkans shooting "the worlds simplest slingshot." He has a pouch tied into one end of the band material and literally holds onto the other end with his fist. Since there is no sideways thrust in his single band, there is no sideways thrust induced into his shot. IE: it goes directly inline with the direction the band is pointed.

Since I don't want to go that primative and want an actual forked handle to hold onto I made my next gen Prototype using more of "1611torstens" influence.

Short stubby limbs with a narrow spread, and then my own design influence of the angled handle. I hacked this one out of a piece of Oak I had laying around and rigged it with a single band over the top of the yoke set up.

The first shot hit the back of the yoke and I remembered that you have to follow thru with your left hand, kind of flipping the yoke to avoid hand slaps and hitting of the yoke.

Accuracy improvement was immediate. Hitting things at 20-30 yards was immediate and by the time I had 20 shots thru it I ws back to hitting or getting really close on nearly everyshot.

The single band rig on this one will shoot 1/2 steel balls fair strongly, however 230 gr .45 slugs lacked any real power. With a double band rig I believe it would be not only powerful but accurate.

Anyway I'm going to shoot this prototype for a week or so and make some refinements on the shape, and then I will make a couple out of real wood . I want to make more than one this time so I can explore this "Butterfly" technique

[Bzcraig]

Ok, I have an interest in this but for a much different reason, I am a recreational paintball player. When we take a break for lunch many of us play "redneck paintball." We sit across from each other about 50-60' apart and launch paintballs from slingshots at each other. I'm thinking if I show up with a good slingshot and some new found skills, I might earn a new level of respect.[smilie=w:

[W.R.Buchanan]

Bzcraig: as long as you paintballs have some decent mass, they will fly pretty much strait. With a minimal amount of practice if you couldn't hit a man sized target at 20 yards I'd say you didn't pay attention.

Building a slingshot like this is not real hard. I knocked this one out in about and hour and a half. Mind you I already had the Theraband and had bands already cut, but I still had to nake a pouch, and rig it all together .

There are plenty of instructions on Youtube. 1611torsten, Gamekeeper John, are the most informative IMO.

Randy