Duco Cement or alternative for converted shotshells?

[Geoffrey]

This started as a post seeking advice on glue... See my second post with more pertinent information.

I am a new member here, I have been doing a lot of reading on this site and figured it was time to come out of the shadows. ;)

I am currently taking loaded 12ga birdshot and converting to slugs with a lee slug mold. I am folding the crimp back down to close the shell, this however is time consuming. Eventually I will get setup for reloading, however for now I am interested in learning more about converting birdshot to slug then eventually to buckshot.

I have done a lot of research and I am confident the pressure will be ok.

I currently open the star crimp, pour out the shot, cast slug, insert slug, then refold the crimp. I have been thinking that there might be a more efficient way to do this conversion.

I am thinking that I could basically cut the very end of the crimp off which would leave a slight distance from the shotcup to the end of the hull. Then I would cast the shot to slug, insert, and seal with some form of glue. Using an overshot card with buckshot and possibly with the slug load too.

It was suggested to me that I can use a wax/glue mixture to "close" the shell. I have also been reading about Duco Cement as a method to close brass 12ga hulls. By cutting off the crimp I would basically have a straight walled plastic hull, could Duco Cement be used to "close" plastic 12ga hulls with an overshot card?

Right now I refold the star crimp, this is time consuming by hand.

I know long term a proper reloading setup is a better way to do this, short term though converting shells will make it affordable for me to practice more with my shotgun. Here in Canada birdshot can be had for $0.30 or less per round where slugs and buckshot are a minimum of $0.80 to $1.25 per round.

I know this is outside the standard scope of reloading.

Thanks all for your input.

[35remington]

With all due respect, the most efficient way is not to do what you are doing. Forget your way because it is the worst possible way to reload a slug. Both as to cost and convenience.

Dumpster dive and secure fired shells for nearly free. Cast the slug out of scrounged lead because converting shot is a waste of expensive shot, as its value as shot far exceeds its value as lead or as a slug. If you buy shot at 33.50 per 25 lbs, one ounce of shot has a value of 8.4 cents. That's too expensive to convert to a one ounce slug.

Reloaded shells crimp easily and you don't have to worry about cutting a factory shell open. Reloaded shells crimp over the Lee slug beautifully.

Is there some reason you are selecting the very worst way possible to make your slug loads? I cannot imagine what it would be. Invest in proper components, forget about melting expensive shot and trying to use factory loads for the wrong reasons and life will be both cheaper and easier.

A used shotshell press can be had for low cost. Your way is not really productive and is both slow and expensive. Starting looking around for the better way.

[Geoffrey]

I guess I should have prefaced this better. I am in Canada, we do NOT have gun rights in any way shape or form. However, we do have good laws pertaining to short barreled firearms if they are manual action. Up here I cannot carry a handgun/pistol for wilderness defense, I can however carry a shotgun with a 14" barrel with no additional paperwork. I don't need to go through the SBR mess you guys in the US do. So I own a fantastic short shotgun but I never really practice with it. Birdshot isn't a great way to train with target stands in my opinion but slugs/buck is prohibitively expensive here. Now that said...

I do agree with you in many ways. Short term this was to prove/test several things. 1) what can be done in the event that only birdshot can be bought locally, can it be remade into a more effective load 2) could I put away a large supply of birdshot for "a rainy day" and if things got bad re-purpose it into slugs/buck 3) can I do these things with simple tools ie no press 4) this was the big one... how much would I practice with my shotgun if I could afford buckshot/slugs.

Depending on my results I would then move to a reloading press or stick with rarely training with my shotgun.

Today I went out and tried a few of the converted shells. I actually had very good results with my method. The star crimp opened well, the slugs came out with a nice solid report and no unburnt powder, there were no excessive pressures noticed and the recoil was very pleasant unlike full power slugs.

The glue method I don't intend to chase further; I tried a few varieties today with less than ideal results.

However, replacing the shot with a slug then folding the crimp back in actually worked extremely well.

This is what my converted shell looks like

57775

This is what the hull looks like after firing

57776

This is how the wad engaged the slots in the Lee slug

57777


I was pleased with the results, they fired well, nothing left unburnt, felt like firing birdshot maybe a little less recoil even, all in all they performed well.

Now I am a complete novice with regards to reloading, all I can report on is what I observed.

I do have a question for other Lee Slug shooters. My retrieved wad/cups appear to have really engaged the slug, do your retrieved wads/cups?

As I said this isn't a long term option. Short term it is how I convert shells to judge how much I will actually practice with my shotgun before picking up reloading equipment.

I have converted 125 rounds so far and once I complete the other 125 I will start looking locally for a good deal on reloading equipment.

This exercise was to answer my questions listed above. After firing a box of these shells today I am VERY confident that reloading equipment will be purchased in the very near future.

:)

[35remington]

Once you get reloading the practice of opening factory shells will seem more like the waste of resources that it is. OEM Winchester or Federal wads work better in the reloaded shell than the cheaper clone wads. It is common for the wad to try to drive itself inside the slug, and that is why the drive key is there. Prevents the need for hard cards.

A better crimp helps improve the ballistics of the load, and it appears you are lacking crimp quality based on your picture.

[Geoffrey]

Once you get reloading the practice of opening factory shells will seem more like the waste of resources that it is. OEM Winchester or Federal wads work better in the reloaded shell than the cheaper clone wads. It is common for the wad to try to drive itself inside the slug, and that is why the drive key is there. Prevents the need for hard cards.

A better crimp helps improve the ballistics of the load, and it appears you are lacking crimp quality based on your picture.

I agree, opening up a perfectly good shell just to reload it is extremely redundant, and once I get a press will be a waste of time.

I have sourced scrap lead locally at between $1 - $1.30 per pound so I am set for my lead supply. I am seeking out a few tire shops for wheel weights as well.

The crimp left on my "slugs" are actually only half of the crimp I unfolded. I tried this way as I felt this would be a safer bet, pressure wise, then a full crimp. I also rolled the crimp in so it just touches the slug to prevent any movement of the slug inside the cup to be sure that the slug is tight to the wad when the round is fired.

Can you be more specific on my crimp being lacking?

Thanks.

[Agent1187]

Seems like you had a pretty good trial run.

You can use hard cards between the slug and the wad to reduce the engagement you are seeing, but unless you are looking for long range accuracy or noticing some serious fliers, wad engagement shouldn't be troublesome.

[LUBEDUDE]

Can you be more specific on my crimp being lacking?

Thanks.

I believe he is referring to the downward force that a final crimp provides as well as wad pressure with modern wads. This is why you noticed a less felt recoil. I would venture to say that if you chronographed those loads, they would be at least 100 -150 fps less than the factory loads if not more.

[Geoffrey]

I believe he is referring to the downward force that a final crimp provides as well as wad pressure with modern wads. This is why you noticed a less felt recoil. I would venture to say that if you chronographed those loads, they would be at least 100 -150 fps less than the factory loads if not more.

Gotcha.

That makes sense.

My thought was if I made a roll crimp out of a stock shell it would put all the pressure of opening the crimp on the cup. Using the "crimp" I did I felt there would be less pressure concerns.

I have moved up my reloading plans, I suspect I will have a press this summer. ;)

[35remington]

No need for a roll crimp. Most crimps these days for slugs that fit in shotcups are fold crimps. A well done fold crimp offers the advantages over your home made crimps just as suggested in post #7.

Get your reloading gear ASAP, and good luck. We have a number of guys here that can help you assemble good (and much cheaper!) slug loads right off the bat.

[shotman4]

Well I missed the AB
Ok I understand now .
Cut the top of the shell off. you dont need that part. Next you need a filler for base of slug. I would use wax. next If you can get bee wax{guys here sell it } it is sticky and not as bad to get hard at lower temps.
Fill the base of the slug. and then drop in your open shell. drip melted bee wax around the inside of th case. just enough to seal the slug in
the base filler dont need to be bee wax any candle or canning wax will work for that . but the seal wax needs to be some what sticky or it will break in cold weather

[Geoffrey]

Thanks again guys.

Up here in Canada reload is doable but a little more costly than the states.

This was to test the waters before I get a reloading kit.

I actually enjoy casting, I have sourced a great deal of lead and have been sorting and making ingots getting ready for more casting down the road.

I have learned a lot here already.

This was to test what COULD be done if need be, and test how much shooting I will actually do.

I will probably load up all 250 converted birdshot using this method and then gauge how quickly I use them up; once that is known I will either do another case of 250 this way or go straight after reloading gear.