Hard lube

[Rich22]

So I finally got my pot today and am playing with it. Have a mold for my 9mm's and will try that soon. Problem I have to figure out now is I need a lube that will work for 9mm and eventually in a couple months for 300 Blackout. I will be tumble lubing and sizing with the Lee push through sizer. I am going to run these through a bullet feeder on my LNL AP so I need a lube that is going to stay hard after cured, also since I live in florida, 9 months of the year we have some decently high temps and the loading room in the summer can easily pass 85 so anything that is sticky will just not work. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[geargnasher]

White Label Carnauba Red.

Gear

[fryboy]

umm with hard lube allow me to suggest pan lubing vs. tumble lubing , there is a learning curve and i'll be the first to admit that i have never tried pan lubing with carnuba red , while i prefer the "whack it crack method" for pan lubing with a hard lube you may be better off fashioning a kake cutter ( or buying one per caliber )

[runfiverun]

you have to cake cut a hard lube from a pan before it hardens.
or you just end up with lube and boolits all over the place and none of them together.
if you want hard,you have three choices.
magma engineering.
jakes ceresin.
or carnuba red commercial.
the regular carnuba red is a bit soft and can be a little tacky.
unfortunatley none of them really lend themselves to pan lubing or tumble lubing or even dip lubing.
they do go on quite well with a heated lube sizer though as that is what they are designed for.
sorry things ain't all that easy.
i have bullet feeders for some of my progressives and don't use them because i will sacrafice a little reloading speed for results in the gun.

[Rich22]

I will have to look at pan lubing since I have never really researched it since I just expected to tumble lube, not sure what is involved. Wanted to do tumble essentially so yet not another step where I have to handle each bullet since I will be when sizing anyways and if using the push through sizer I have to actually lube twice if I am not mistaken, once before sizing and once after.

[fryboy]

not with pan lubing , once the grooves are full they be full , if the size is correct they dont need sized ( for an example i dont size my .50 & .54 cal maxi's and with the method i use they be clean enough to shoot ) the tumble lube method needs to be lubed before sizing ( it helps the sizing process ) and again after sizing and actually for more demanding applications two coats after sizing sometimes works better and as always 2 thin coats beat one thick one

[mdi]

I just finished pan lubing 200+ .38 cal bullets, done with Carnauba Red. In my experience, C-Red won't allow "punching out" of the lube cake; the bullets need to be cut out. Tried it cold (temps here get to high 30s) warm (just solid enough to free the cake) and anywhere in between). The 2 lbs. I have seem to be about the consistancy of cold pink bubblegum, mebbe a little stickier. Works great in my 9mm, 38/357 Mag., .44 mag. and 30-30. If you want to try a tumble lube, I don't think you can do bettet than 45-45-10 (check the stickie http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?67654-Tumble-Lubing-Made-Easy-amp-Mess-Free

[Rich22]

I gotcha I think, lube before sizing, but how does that lube the bullet and not just the groove? Won't the lube be pushed off during sizing? I am 99% sure these will need sizing, just my luck if nothing else
not with pan lubing , once the grooves are full they be full , if the size is correct they dont need sized ( for an example i dont size my .50 & .54 cal maxi's and with the method i use they be clean enough to shoot ) the tumble lube method needs to be lubed before sizing ( it helps the sizing process ) and again after sizing and actually for more demanding applications two coats after sizing sometimes works better and as always 2 thin coats beat one thick one

[runfiverun]

it will, that's why the second coat is applied.
funny it gets pushed off by the sizer...
i wonder what happens in the other cylinder it goes through later.

[bobthenailer]

I have been using only hard lubes for over 20+ years , with excellent results !
Brands ive used are RR Zambine Red, Thompson , True flight, Magnima Engineering , LBT Comercial and WLCarnuba Red . all with satisfactory results. but some are better than others.

[Rich22]

If you have a recommendation for where I should begin it would be much appreciated.
I have been using only hard lubes for over 20+ years , with excellent results !
Brands ive used are RR Zambine Red, Thompson , True flight, Magnima Engineering , LBT Comercial and WLCarnuba Red . all with satisfactory results. but some are better than others.

[Rich22]

it will, that's why the second coat is applied.
funny it gets pushed off by the sizer...
i wonder what happens in the other cylinder it goes through later.

True, but after it goes through that cylinder we are not much caring about it's "well being" any longer

[mdi]

Pre sizing lube is just to make the bullet "slicker", to ease sizing. Alox works on the bearing surfaces of the bullet, not just in the grooves. Lee saays lube the bullets prior to sizing with alox then size and lube again. The first lube is to aid sizing, the second lube is for shooting. Actually you can use anything that makes bullets slick; I use the same lube as I use for case sizing, Mink Oil Boot Dressing.

Most new users of alox use too much lube, just a little dab'll do ya. Whenever I use alox alone, Ill thin it with mineral spirits to about the same consistancy as heavy cream, and just put one coat on and most of the time and I get faster drying, no goop in seating dies and less smoke when shooting...

[Rich22]

I have been using only hard lubes for over 20+ years , with excellent results !
Brands ive used are RR Zambine Red, Thompson , True flight, Magnima Engineering , LBT Comercial and WLCarnuba Red . all with satisfactory results. but some are better than others.

After looking up a couple of these, will any of them work without a lubrasizer?

[leadman]

I live in Az and in the summer the Carnuba Red is very sticky. The boolits stick together and most usually ends up with a spot of lube missing from the grooves. If you store them base down so they don't touch they would be fine.
I'm experimenting with different combonations of Carnube Red and Magna Engineering's lube. The ME lube is very hard and has a high melting temperature, probably around 220'. I think the base is something other then beeswax. With the cool temps right now when I tried to cut the stick with a knife the blade went about a quarter inch in and then I just snapped it in to 2 pieces.
I have used Red Angel lube sucessfuly here but the cost has gone up to around $6 a stick.

[runfiverun]

magma's flow temp is 120 carnuba red's is 105.
there is a commercial carnuba red too that takes the higher flow temp of the magma engineering lube.
magmas base, okay whole lube recipe is parrafin/carnuba wax/color.

rich:
they all need a lubesizer and heater.
however
if you dip lube the boolits, when you size them, the lube is forced into the lube grooves,the excess is scraped off.

you might not care what happens to the lube too much untill you have to clean the calcium soaps off the sides of your rifling,or untill it builds up and the flyers start.
alox is made with an oxidized mineral oil and calcium carbonate as the greases stearate [thickener].
the calcium is the same stuff that was jamming up ar's in viet nam when they were first issued to the troops.
the difference between the new alox and the old alox is the parrafin content.
if you want to make 2138-f from the 350 available now add 7% parrafin to it.
hopefully this helps.

[bobthenailer]

If you have a recommendation for where I should begin it would be much appreciated.

I would go with the WL Carnuba Red or possibly the harder CR comercial if its avalible , also get the 2x6 sticks its a lot less expensive as there is no hole in the center, just melt it in a pyrex measuring cup and pour it into your L/S.

[mdi]

OK, 1st post asked about tumble lubing and most replies talked about hard lubes. So, I'd say, if you wanna tumble lube, go with 45-45-10 or thinned alox. Make sure the bullets/lube are dry (I sometimes use a small desk fan blowing across the bullets to dry them quicker) before you put them in a bullet feeder and you're good to go...

Now if you wanna go with pan lubeing that's a different story altogether.

[leadman]

Magma's malt temp is way above 120'. I'll post some results of some testing I did this week in another thread.
If I was just getting started casting again I would look at powder coating or the stuff Bayou Bullets is marketing here in the states.

[RobsTV]

In the Florida heat, I have had great results with Lee sizer first (unlubed), then pan lubing with Carnauba Red, and while in the pan still warm, use unsized case to cookie cut, then push lubed boolits out of case with paper clip or thin screw driver. Use it for everything from 32acp to 500 S&W, and all rifles except BP. Can do roughly 3 batches of 50 boolits an hour. Even BB solution was solved by not pressing cookie cutter all the way down.

They might stick together a tad when stored in bulk unloaded, but once loaded will not.

[Rich22]

Appreciate the info, 150 an hour is way under what I need to do for just lubing, Have a feeling also that if they stick together when put in a box that it will likely gum up my bullet feeder so much I will be cleaning far to often. I have no problem with heating this stuff up but when dry I need it really hard and I don't think pan lubing/ cookie cutter will work for me especially in the 9mm bullets.


In the Florida heat, I have had great results with Lee sizer first (unlubed), then pan lubing with Carnauba Red, and while in the pan still warm, use unsized case to cookie cut, then push lubed boolits out of case with paper clip or thin screw driver. Use it for everything from 32acp to 500 S&W, and all rifles except BP. Can do roughly 3 batches of 50 boolits an hour. Even BB solution was solved by not pressing cookie cutter all the way down.

They might stick together a tad when stored in bulk unloaded, but once loaded will not.

[RobsTV]

The 150 an hour speed is with one small fry pan that holds up to 50 large boolits for reference, taking my time, mostly waiting for heat up or cool down. Could easily take my time and use two burners and pans to get 300 an hour, and if I really hustled things up, maybe 3 pans and 450 an hour? If I used a larger fry pan, could up the count to 100 per pan and 300 per hour with only one pan running. With pan lubing, you can set your own pace.

With that said, recently purchased a used Lyman 4500 w/heater and plan on doing most lubing with that. Might not be any faster, but should be easier.

The CR lube does not gum up my loading dies at all, but not sure how well it would work with a feeder, or in parts of the country with different temperatures and humidity, but seeing as it is one of the most recommended lubes, I would guess than many use CR with boolit feeders. CR might not be as sticky with our frequent very high humidity compared to the dry desert air some might use it in. It is not an issue for me.

The nice thing about pan lubing is the investment cost to try it out. Usually zero, as most have an old pan and spent cases. For 9mm cookie cutter I use 38 special brass, which being longer, makes it work a lot easier. The real trick is finding the right temperature zone to easily and cleanly pluck the boolits out at.

[blikseme300]

Rich22,

The combination in your quest has no easy answer. Your question In a nutshell: high volume progressive press with a boolit feeder and boolits that are tumble lubed.

My opinion is that you will be frustrated and your output will be low.

I do load volume cast and load 9mm and 300blk. Both the 9mm and 300blk are lubed using TAC#1 through a Star and loaded on a LnL AP that has a case feeder. I have tried the Hornady boolit feeder but never could get it to work reliably with cast when conventionally lubed or tumble lubed. Went with the case feeder only.

Bliksem

[Rich22]

I agree this will be a pain in the rear. I have recently begun reading the thread on this forum about powder coating bullets and honestly am intrigued. I may just have to try that sucker out as really it would solve my problems of speed since likely could do in huge batches and sure would solve the problem if being hard enough to run through a bullet feeder. BTW, I have recently gotten a RCBS bullet feed die and although a pain to adjust has actually worked ok if I use something without horribly sticky lube.
Rich22,

The combination in your quest has no easy answer. Your question In a nutshell: high volume progressive press with a boolit feeder and boolits that are tumble lubed.

My opinion is that you will be frustrated and your output will be low.

I do load volume cast and load 9mm and 300blk. Both the 9mm and 300blk are lubed using TAC#1 through a Star and loaded on a LnL AP that has a case feeder. I have tried the Hornady boolit feeder but never could get it to work reliably with cast when conventionally lubed or tumble lubed. Went with the case feeder only.

Bliksem