444 levergun

[Blammer]

Talk to me about the Marlin 444.

Who has one and what do you like/dislike about it.

I am thinking of trading into one.

[krag35]

I had an early one with the pistol grip, accurate and deadly on black tail and Roosevelt Elk. Weather it was the stock design or just how I held it, at least once during an outing it would bloody my nose during recoil. Have a Winchester 94 now in 444 and love it. 444 is a great round, from Mice to Moose.

[uscra112]

If you buy it and want brass,shoot me a P/M. I've got about 100 that I'm about to list in S&S.

[dnepr]

I have one ,love it ,it is my go to gun for filling the freezer.Ihave killed more animals with that rifle than any other. It will be the last firearm I ever sell, I need to go shoot it ...soon:-D

[Poppaclutch]

Owned one for 27 years and handed it down to a favorite nephew. He reports that deer and hogs "just fall over". I kinda felt bad until I replaced it with a Marlin 1895 classic.

[Gtek]

Just about finished building mine. Converting a Glenfield MOD 30, JES did barrel and I am having a ball doing the rest. That is one long fat case for a 336 reciever. Cannot wait to heat it up! Gtek

[TXGunNut]

Awesome cartridge but it won't do anything that my 45-70 or 375 Winny won't do. Wish I could justify the investment because it looks like fun.

[427smith]

I've got model 444 marlin, made in 1969. great gun but doesn't shoot cast boolits worth a darn, because of the microgroove rifling. keep that in mind.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I had a 1975 built one and never actually got to shoot cast in it. I was buying a 45/70 Cowboy for Cowboy Action shooting and saw a near new 444 on the shelf. I had a look at it and preferred the feel of the checkered stock to my 1975 one so I worked a deal and walked out with both the cowboy and the near new 444 with Ballard rifling.

A lot of people here will disagree with getting cast to work in the microgroove barrels. You can get them to shoot, but you often have to work at it, where conventional rifling is often easy.

I really like the 444, but if you don't own one, I wouldn't go out of my way to get one. A 45/70 is a lot more gun and both ammo and guns are more commonly available. The 45/70 can shoot heavier boolits, but in reality, the heavier boolits that the 444 can shoot will 'get er done.' The 444 has the advantage of being able to shoot lighter boolits (44mag boolits) for plinking / light game. I'd go out shopping and see what comes up.

The 444 has a slightly flatter trajectory, but then again, is shooting lighter boolits probably.

[johnly]

I have a early 444 with a 1/38 microgroove barrel that thrives on the Hornady 265 FTX bullets. Should be a great CB shooter when I have the chance to try some 310 gr. FP bullets in it.

John

[Four Fingers of Death]

I forgot to mention, my 444 is a hammer with Hornady 275Gn Jacketed bullets. All 444s are modern production, so factory stuff is generally moving right along! Big hit up fron,instant headache stab on the user's end. Very impressive!

[Gtek]

Tax, Tag, Title not included. All of the reading I have done prior to my move into building up one is- #1- The older 1-38 micro likes speed and perfect oversize boolit for any kind of accuracy, more so if going heavy. #2- The later production 1-20 Ballard much more foregiving on all. #3- Boolit fit is still king ( we all know this commandment). #4- The Leverevolution seems to shoot pretty well to wow in everything I have tried. #5- Appears to really like 4198 of any flavor. #6- I have Marlinitis and I did not have one, found a pooch and spending way to much time and money to have show dog. Dang Marlinitis! Gtek

[quilbilly]

When I got mine many years ago, I chose it over the 45-70 because there were so many styles and sizes of jacketed bullets to reload. Even better with cast and mine shoots 240's, 255's, and 310GC cast equally well.

[6pt-sika]

I have one 444 with the 1-20 Ballard barrel and a small herd of 444's with the 1-38 Micro barrels .

I shoot cast in ALL of them with decent hunting accuracy .

In the 1-38 Micro guns I've done well with cast bullets all the way up to 375 grains . The 1-20 Ballard rifle is relegated to 390-425 grain bullets exclusively .

ALL of my bullets are now sized in a .433" die . Also for the Micro guns any bullets over 315 grains are water quenched . Seems the exterior toughness helps the accuracy a good bit , almost as if the air cooled WW bullets were to soft and stripped inside the barrel .

Anyway with the slow twist Micro barrels I found the following ,

1. Size .431" or more seems the larger the better up to .433" . Nver tried a .434" die so i cannot say about that .

2. Push them a bit on the fast side . I use H322 , RL7 , XMR2015 and Varget mostly .

3. If you use plain WW alloy then any bullets of about 315 grains or more only worked for me when water quenched .

[Four Fingers of Death]

The 1-20 Ballard rifle is relegated to 390-425 grain bullets exclusively.

Is that because it doesn't like the lighter stuff or just because your other rifles handle all the lighter boolit work?

[wrench man]

Mine's a '71 "444T" it has a Marbles 1/16" gold bead on the front, a Lyman "66LA" with a Williams "Twilight" .050" peep on the back, it produced this three shot group with factory Remington ammo! (the three BIG holes;-) )
http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/ramblerinternational/guns/target.jpg

And it seems to have less recoil than my 1895M?;)

[Four Fingers of Death]

How sweet it is Wrench Man!

[6pt-sika]

Is that because it doesn't like the lighter stuff or just because your other rifles handle all the lighter boolit work?

I prefer the "original" 444's with the straight grip , 24" pipe , barrel bands and monte carlo stock . So yes I got the 1-20 gun just for the 390+ offerings . I actually had thoughts once upon a time of rebarreling one of the others to 1-20 Ballard but never did .

[6pt-sika]

Mine's a '71 "444T" it has a Marbles 1/16" gold bead on the front, a Lyman "66LA" with a Williams "Twilight" .050" peep on the back, it produced this three shot group with factory Remington ammo! (the three BIG holes;-) )
And it seems to have less recoil than my 1895M?;)


It's been my opinion that factory Remington or Hornady 444 ammo has no significant recoil .
But then I didn't think the 450 Marlin was bad either !

[Four Fingers of Death]

factory Hornady 444 ammo has no significant recoil.???? Scheeooooooooot! you musta got a different packet to me. I got a packet of Hornady 265Gn ammo with 17 rounds left when I bought my virtually new Ballard rifled one. They kicked the tar out of me and I got a slight headache stab with each shot. I don't get that with my 338WM and 416Rigby Ruger No1s or the Rem700 in 375H&H. Mind you the 375 is a 7lb rifle and it jumps all over the place, but the R3 (Limbsaver) recoil pad really soaks it up!

I must have been having a bad day when I shot the Marlin. Maybe I had the bench set up or was sitting wrong way round or something. I'll just have to go back and check it out again.

The guys at the range think I'm crazy. I am the rifle Captain and am always blasting away with a 300WM, 338WM, 375H&H, 416 Rigby, 444 or 45/70. One of the young guys asked me why I shot som much ammo out of these big girls. I said 'Heck I'm 64 and I'm flat out trying to wear these things out before they stick me out on the porch in the rocking chair!'

Note to self: Load more 444 ammo and try again!

[nekshot]

If you are wanting a 444 decide why you want one. I have had my share and currently have a win timbercarbine. They are awsome from plinking up to full throttle. I love shooting mine with 310 lee and trailboss for 44 mag performance and with h335 full load it gives 1 inch groubs at 100 yards as long as I can take the recoil and do my part. I get sick of hearing the comparisons to the 45-70. If you want a 45-70 then get one of them from git go and enjoy it but if you want to have a open mind about a cartridge that has a lot of more to offer than type writer shooters then this might be for you . Marshal at bear claw bullets has a exellant write up on the 444. My expierence covers a little of 40 years with the 444 and I would not want be with out one.

[nekshot]

One more rant if you all don't mind. How stupid of remington to offer the pistol bullet in this gun for public consumption. If they started off with a proper bullet and heavier weight bullet from go this cartridge would be looked upon totally differant in many eyes. It took the reloaders and cast boolits to make this round thunder properly.

[wrench man]

It's been my opinion that factory Remington or Hornady 444 ammo has no significant recoil .
But then I didn't think the 450 Marlin was bad either !

Then what in your opinion has "significant" recoil?, the 444 kicks less than my M77 338WM, and the Hornady "Custom" ammo in the 450 combined with the short eye relief scope is downright obnoxious! to shoot, in fact it's the only gun that's got any blood outa my face!, and I certainly don't consider myself a light weight by any means!?

[WyrTwister]

I've got model 444 marlin, made in 1969. great gun but doesn't shoot cast boolits worth a darn, because of the microgroove rifling. keep that in mind.


I whined and complained about my Micro Groove Marlin .45-70 .

Until I learned on the internet , that I was shooting bullets that are too small .

I went to bullets that are sized to .460" and the accuracy improved , dramatically .

Try bigger bullets in your .444 .

All of my Marlins seem to like big bullets .

God bless
Wyr

[6pt-sika]

Then what in your opinion has "significant" recoil?, the 444 kicks less than my M77 338WM, and the Hornady "Custom" ammo in the 450 combined with the short eye relief scope is downright obnoxious! to shoot, in fact it's the only gun that's got any blood outa my face!, and I certainly don't consider myself a light weight by any means!?

I "had" a Ruger #1H in a 458 WIN MAG that was a handfull . I load for a friends 505 Gibbs that takes a little learning curve to handle .

But for the most part those are the only two that have woke me up so to speak . Now knock on wood none so far have wacked me in the forehead with the scope .

I will say over the years I've had 2 or 3 lightweight 308 bolt actions that would get after you at the bench if you didn't hold on to them .

But as far as the 450 Marlin's concerned my loads in that with jacketed (factory or handloads)were no worse then my jacketed loads in the 45-70 . My 45-70 cast loads could however be a handfull for most folks especially with the 465 and 550 grainers .

[6pt-sika]

I whined and complained about my Micro Groove Marlin .45-70 .

Until I learned on the internet , that I was shooting bullets that are too small .

I went to bullets that are sized to .460" and the accuracy improved , dramatically .

Try bigger bullets in your .444 .

All of my Marlins seem to like big bullets .

God bless
Wyr


I agree the bullets I size for the 45-70 go thru a Buffalo Arms .461" die and the bullets for my 444's go thru a Buffalo Arms .432" or .433" die !

[helice]

I have had my Winchester Big Bore for about 15 years. It is everything I wanted in the rifle. I have set it up with a scout scope. I had a lot of moulds for the 44 mag so all I needed was dies. I can load it down to launch a 300 WFN at 500 foot seconds or push it to 2200. I have settled on a 280 LFN at about 1800 foot seconds. I am surprised by all the different powders I have used in the 444 from Red Dot to Unique to Blue Dot to 4227 to Re-7. What ever I had I used.:-D

[izzyjoe]

i've always wanted a 444 marlin, and came close to getting on once. i'm a light weight at 160lbs, so a 450 marlin will kick the living **** out of me. but the 444 that i shot with factory loads did'nt seem any worse than my 308FW winny. i think you'll love the 444!

[Dutch4122]

Mine is an early production USRAC Black Shadow 20" barrel with the 1/12" twist. Yes, 1 turn in 12 inches is not a typo. I bought the rifle NIB and the literature that came with it stated 1 turn in 12" twist. Accuracy with the 280 grain boolits is barely acceptable for hunting. I shoot a 300 grn GC design from a former Lee Group Buy stoked with H4198. It shoots way better than I do. Got a 350 grn GC I designed on Mountain Moulds that I need to work with some day. Got a feeling that this gun will love the 350 grn weight.

One thing to be aware of with the Winchester/USRAC guns; the nose to crimp cannot exceed .320" or they will not feed from the magazine to the chamber. The nose will catch 1/2 way up to the chamber. I believe the Marlins will take a longer nose like the 640 style.

Hope this helps,:mrgreen:

[smoked turkey]

I've had my .444 since about 1970. I have taken a few nice whitetail with it. It does good as has been posted. I was enamored by the short barrel Marader(sp?) with the 18.25" barrel. So unfortunately I had my long barrel shortened. It is very handy and good to pack, but I wish I had stopped at maybe 20 " or 22". Otherwise I really like mine.

[6pt-sika]

I've had my .444 since about 1970. I have taken a few nice whitetail with it. It does good as has been posted. I was enamored by the short barrel Marader(sp?) with the 18.25" barrel. So unfortunately I had my long barrel shortened. It is very handy and good to pack, but I wish I had stopped at maybe 20 " or 22". Otherwise I really like mine.

Of the 10 or 12 444's I still have one is a 1966 vintage gun I had cut to 19" , one is a 2001 rifle thats factory 22" and the rest are all the original version with 24" pipes .

I did some clocking of loads in the 19" pipe and then the exact same load in a 24" pipe and typically I would loose no more then 150 FPS with 5" of barrel loss .

[6pt-sika]

Over the last 5 or so years I've taken 25 whitetails and 2 black bear with the 444 using cast bullets . Couple years before that I've maybe taken 7 or 8 whitetails with the 444 using jacketed bullets .

The jacketed did okay but it looked as if the cast bullets slammed them a bit harder or better however one looks at that !

FWIW , I killed three one day using Dutch's C434-210F bullet !
That day was boom flop , boom flop and finally boom tip tip tip flop all in the matter of 60 seconds !

[smoked turkey]

6pt-sika sounds like you speak with lots of experience of hunting with the .444. My whitetail loads consisted of the same boolit that I shoot in my 44 mag. I am interested in what boolit you thought was the best for both whitetail and black bear? I am thinking I would like to shoot a little heavier boolit in mine when I use it again. Also can you recommend a powder that has given you the best performance? The short barrel certainly makes the rifle a better woods gun than the longer barrel it originally had.

[6pt-sika]

6pt-sika sounds like you speak with lots of experience of hunting with the .444. My whitetail loads consisted of the same boolit that I shoot in my 44 mag. I am interested in what boolit you thought was the best for both whitetail and black bear? I am thinking I would like to shoot a little heavier boolit in mine when I use it again. Also can you recommend a powder that has given you the best performance? The short barrel certainly makes the rifle a better woods gun than the longer barrel it originally had.

For whitetail and blackies you would be hard pressed to do better then the Ranch Dog in either the 265 grain or 300 grain configurations . I've killed deer with both of them . I am also a BIG advocate of using H322 with cast bullets in the 444 .

Some folks are big on H4198 and I've used it some as well , but I seemed to always get slightly better results accuracy wise with the H322 . I also like the relatively new IMR8208 , XMR2015 and RL7 . Vargets also another thats worked well for me but generally with the 390 grain plus bullets .

Lately I've used VV N-120 , VV N-130 and VV N-530 in the 444 with decent or better results . That VV N-120 with Dutch's 434-210GC bullet can be a screamer .

This just past hunting season of the three deer I killed in Virginia two were killed with a 444 with cast . I used my circa 1966 "Retro 444P" with the 19" barrel and a nice old Weaver V4.5 on top shooting a bullet I kinda came up with loosely based on the Ranch Dog style nose with conventional lube grooves . Had Bruse formerly of BRP do the drawings for me and then had Mountain Molds cut it . Turned out to be 325 grains plus or minus 2 grains once it was sized lubed and checked and cast from plain old wheelweights . Also it was sized at .432" .

The two deer I killed with that bullet went maybe 35 yards combined after they were shot . The two were shot at the edge of dark the first day of rifle season here . Popped the larger doe first and then about a minute later the younger one came back and I popped her as well . Mama went maybe 5 yards after the shot and the younger one was keyed up and went maybe 30 yards after I popped her .

[smoked turkey]

Thanks for the valuable information on boolits and powder for the 444 Marlin. I had a hunch the heavies were the way to go. I will keep an eye out for one of the heavier boolits on the selling forum. Thanks for the powder info too. One of my problems here is that I tend to stay with the old powers that I have always used and thus settle for less than optimum performance from my handguns and rifles. I am glad to hear of your success and satisfaction with the 444, and especially with the shorter barrel.

[hunter64]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e304/1964bigfoot/IM002125.jpg

You can also go lighter in bullet weight if you want. I had this bullet made up by Mountain Molds at 200 GRN and sized to .433 . This target was shot with the old microgroove barrel and it does just fine thank you. It has harvested countless deer and moose over the last 20 years with 260-300 gn cast boolits so I decided for the heck of it to come up with a lighter bullet to shoot flatter and it works.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e304/1964bigfoot/444-1.jpg
I had buckshot convert the mold to hollowpoint and I tell you it works just fine on deer and moose.

[Blammer]

Thanks guys! I finally got my rifle and got it together and ready to load some and shoot!

[6pt-sika]

Thanks guys! I finally got my rifle and got it together and ready to load some and shoot!


That 300 grain HP mold you had cut a year or two back by NOE would be an excellent choice for this gun IMHO .

[Blammer]

That is one of the first one's I'm going to try!

I may have to adjust my alloy or projectile some how for the extra velocity.

The damage that projectile did out of my RSRH 44mag was quite impressive on the deer this year, a 60 yd shot too.

[6pt-sika]

That is one of the first one's I'm going to try!

I may have to adjust my alloy or projectile some how for the extra velocity.

The damage that projectile did out of my RSRH 44mag was quite impressive on the deer this year, a 60 yd shot too.

Cast it outta straight wheelweights and aircool you oughtta be fine . Or at the worst just water drop . I used the MiHec 433-295GC HP and water dropped it pushed hard with H322 a couple years back and it literally knocked the fire out of a 4 point at about 40 yards with no excessive damage .

[nekshot]

I kinda hate to put this in print but this thread now seems to have dwindled down to real 444 talk. If any gun I have is a brush buster this one is it. I always look for the perfect hole to shoot thru but with this gun and heavy (300) or more I simply throw the gun on and if it looks good I squeeze. It has never failed me and this is what I meant earlier on the cartridge has alot to offer with long heavy boolits that chronies will not reveal. I shoot the lee 310 grainer with 50 gr h335 just to have a fire show with the short ported barrel. I don't have as much expierence with the 444 as 6pt-sika but I harvested enough deer with other cartridges to know that the performance of this gun with heavy boolits is nothing short of amazing.

[helice]

+1 on the air cooled wheel weights. They work fine.