380 Kel-Tec powder-puff load.

[USARO4]

I have a little Kel-Tec that is my quick carry gun when I just want to slip something in my pocket and run a quick errand. I practice with it quite often but it is a notorious brass slinger. It pitches standard reloads brass everywhere even on top of the roof of my garage occasionally. This makes it hard to recover brass and I usually lose about 20% of it. I've finally developed a load that drops the brass within 3-4 feet of where I'm standing and I thought I'd share it with any Kel-Tec shooters out there. It's Lee's 356-102-1R over 2.2 grs of Red Dot, OAL-.985. Lube with your favorite flavor. This load is also very light recoil in the tiny plastic pistol.:Fire:

[35remington]

USAR, how does that Kel-Tec hold up under extended shooting? I know it's primarily a concealment piece, but any handgun I own will get SHOT. Just curious, as the relatively low price and small size has me tempted, but I don't know about long term durability with an aluminum slide.

Perhaps the polymer frame moderates any slide/frame impact, and my fears for longevity would be unfounded.

[dubber123]

[ Just curious, as the relatively low price and small size has me tempted, but I don't know about long term durability with an aluminum slide.

Perhaps the polymer frame moderates any slide/frame impact, and my fears for longevity would be unfounded.[/QUOTE](35remington)

I'm pretty sure the Kel-Tec's have steel slides.

[trickyasafox]

they have lifetime a warranty, if it breaks mail it back and they'll fix it :)

[35remington]

Ah. I had heard they were aluminum slide to account for the very low weight.

Good to hear that's not true.

On edit: just surfed the Kel-Tec website. Steel slide, aluminum frame. Got it bass-A. Shoulda looked before asking.

So, more questions. Does the slide strike the aluminum frame in operation or is it buffered by something?
Any battering of surfaces?

[USARO4]

35rem, according to the owners manual there is no recoil buffer "On it's way back the slide is gradually slowed down by the recoil springs. During the rear recoil motion, the hammer is disengaged and follows the slide acting like an extra recoil spring." I've had mine for 4 years now and it has been totally reliable. I cant tell you how many rounds I've shot through it but it is at least a 1000 to 2000. Keep in mind that 98% of these were lead handloads of moderate to stout power levels and the bullets were 125 gr Lees which are quite heavy for this caliber. I can vouch for the fact that recoil was quite heavy in such a lightweight pistol. One of the reasons I went to the lighter 105 gr bullet and powder puff load was concern for beating the little gun was taking. So far it has taking a licking and kept on ticking. Also it has been very reliable in feeding handloads.

[EMC45]

Steel slides and polymer frames. It does have aluminum inserts in the frame though. I have thought about loading cast for this little guy. I enjoy mine and I would like to shoot it more. I have the 120 gr mold from Lee for the 9MM. BTW it does pitch the brass EVERYWHERE!!!! Mostly straight into my forehead! I have the pocket clip on mine and it slips nicely into my wasteband.

[rbstern]

I have one also, and shoot cast handloads as well.

These pistols are ultra-concealable, and Kel Tec deserves huge praise for what they've accomplished with this design. But, USAR's experience is not the norm. A lot of P3AT's require either careful ammo selection and/or a bit of tuning.

Got mine used from a guy at the local range who had just gotten it back from the factory (FTF issues). It still failed to feed reliably with several types of factory ammo. He was very frustrated. Bought it from him, knowing that the issue could be corrected with handloads and minor surgery. I reshaped and polished the feed ramp (the "fluff and buff" procedure that Kel Tec enthusiasts often discuss). It now feeds reliably with my loads, but it still cuts a smiley face in the top round in the mag during recoil. The ramp edge hits the face of the bullet. A friend of mine has an unmodified, 2nd generation P3AT, and his does the same, although not as severely. Mine does it enough that I only use cast bullets with a very firm crimp. Jacketed bullets will get set back in the case with the ramp whacking the bullet during recoil.

Great gun for how it allows you to carry. Marginal gun for quality control.

[USARO4]

RB, my P3AT is a first gen model. I dont think my pistol is inherently more reliable than any other P3AT, I think it has more to do with the OAL of my cast reloads. The max OAL for the 380 is listed at .984", I load mine to .985 to .987 OAL. They fit in the magazine and I think the long length is a big factor in reliable feeding. I rarely shoot factory ammo in my pistol but I have noticed that factory ammo tends to be seated much deeper. I just measured the Federal Hydra-shoks that are my carry load and their OAL is .945, so far the limited number I have shot through the pistol have fed reliably, but it does concern me if I was ever in serious situation. I have heard of the dreaded "smileys" on the Kel-Tec forum but have never experienced them.

[9.3X62AL]

No experience with the Kel-Tec pistol line, but some time with the 380 ACP. "Downloading" in this caliber has limits, in all of my pistols of several makes they started getting balky if power levels slip much below 15% of max.

[35remington]

Hmm. All very interesting.

I currently reload for a .380 and am looking to expand my collection of automatics.

With CC being approved here in Nebraska, a secondary gun of very small size is of interest. I am not taken with the .380's that are 9mm size-I'd rather carry a nine. So, a small .380 seems most appropriate.

I load a 90 gr. RN and a 105 SWC for the .380 and feeding has been reliable. Naturally with a small sized gun I would need practice to feel confident in its use, so that's why I've been bombarding everyone here with questions.

While I'm at it, are there any other small .380's out there that those here would feel comfortable carrying, with reliability being numero uno?

[Johnch]

I tryed a Kel-tek 380
My fat finger is just a little to big to fit in the trigger gaurd easly
It now rides in the GF's purse

I have a Kel-Tec P-11 and a P40

The P40 ( 40 S&W ) is a real hand full
It has had 500 + full power jacketed loads and 500+ lead loads

It will jam if you even slightly limp wrist it
IMO that is why they droped the 40
To much recoil for 95% of people



The P-11 ( 9mm) is my normal carry gun
I bought it the second or third year they were out
It has had 2000+ rnds of jacketed 9 MM and 100 rnds of +P 124 gr Rem Golden Saber ammo ( carry ammo )
It has also had 4 - 5000 rnds of lead reloads

Other than new springs , never had any problems

Johnch

[9.3X62AL]

I don't currently own a 380 ACP pistol. The most reliable 380's I've used were the SIG-Sauer P-230 and P-232. They lack an exposed slide lock and push-button mag release, but are utterly reliable and very lead-friendly. They conceal easily. Unlike the Walther, they DON'T bite my hand. I've tried most of what's available, and SIG-Sauer would get my vote.

You might consider a 9mm Makarov, at less than half the price of the P-232. Mine (East German) is also utterly reliable and quite lead-friendly. Ownership of the Mak caused me to sell the 380's I had.

[USARO4]

Bersa makes an excellent 380, there's a thread on it in this section of the forum. Al whats a .360 ACP?

[9.3X62AL]

Oh, yeah--THAT. All fixed now. Forgot to shake my head, eyes got stuck.

[USARO4]

I was hoping you had developed a hot new wildcat load, the .360 ACP-Al's Cannon Pocketpistol.

[rbstern]

The Bersa Thunder 380 is a terrific pistol. There are a couple of small problems with it, but generally speaking, very reliable, feature packed, and good quality for the dollars spent. The SA trigger pull and three dot sights put it head and shoulders above most guns in the same arena. It's an easier gun to wield and hit the target with than most of it's competition.

35rem, is that the Lee 105 swc you are using? I load that for the Bersa. I size it at .358 and use it for 38 special, 380acp and 9mm. It's a great little bullet for punching paper and teaching people to shoot.

I am going to experiment with it in the Kel Tec, seated short, to see if I can get it to feed reliably. Initial tests are promising. Thanks for the inspiration, USAR!

[Bret4207]

If you can find one an Astra Constable is 100% reliable, very accurate and well made.

[USARO4]

RB, I want to clarify my post, dont seat the bullets short that could cause pressure problems. Seat the bullets out further for a longer OAL.

[rbstern]

RB, I want to clarify my post, dont seat the bullets short that could cause pressure problems. Seat the bullets out further for a longer OAL.

No disclaimer needed, but thanks for worrying about me! I'm being careful with the starting charge in this experiment.

[35remington]

Yep, it's the Lee 105 SWC. Originally bought it as a lightweight practice bullet for my .38's and found it has very useful application in the .380 and 9mm as well. Feeds well, nice clean hole in the target.

I might wind up taking a closer look at the Bersa and the Makarov's. Thanks for all the suggestions.

[nelson133]

I wore one of the Kel-Tec P3-ATs because I shoot my guns alot. I sent it back to the factory at my expense and 3 weeks later they sent me a new pistol with the old serial number stamped on it. The old one was reliable until the end with cast handloads and factory stuff, but the new one is even better as it seems that they blueprinted it. I would have no trouble buying another Kel-Tec.

[EMC45]

Bersa is nice, also a Colt 1908 Pocket Auto is a fine gun. If you can find one! About the flattest pocket gun there is.:-D