Winchester announces new rimfire cartridge

[snowwolfe]

http://www.petersenshunting.com/2013/01/02/introducing-the-new-17-winchester-super-magnum/

[Mk42gunner]

Sounds interresting, but when ammo costs more than the lowly .22 I prefer centerfires. I still remember the days when you could buy a 5mm Remington rifle for next to nothing because of no ammo available.

Robert

[Sweetpea]

Just what would this have over the new 17 hornet?

Might have been really cool about 8 years ago...

[9.3X62AL]

Hmmmm......I like my 17 HMR well enough, but it is no replacement for the 22 Hornet. This rimfire Win Magnum gets things closer to the 22 Hornet, but since I reload ammo I need another high-priced rimfire option like a trout needs a mountain bike. I still have the 22 Hornet die set, and three rifles in 223/5.56. If another rat strafer joins the ensemble, it will be in 22 Hornet. For someone who DOESN'T reload, the caliber makes abundant good sense. Its performance is notable.

[snowwolfe]

Guess I will take a wait and see postion. Generally I love rimfires simply because I don't have to chase brass while shooting nor stock different components to reload another cartridge. But you also reach a price point where it does not make any sense compared to reloading. $10-$12 per box of 50 I would give it a go and try one.

[HARRYMPOPE]

i wish they would make the 25 Long Rimfire again for small game.

[I'll Make Mine]

i wish they would make the 25 Long Rimfire again for small game.

The trend for the past century and a half has been very clear: smaller, faster bullets. No reason the .25 Long RF couldn't be made; there are multiple manufacturers producing .25 rimfire power loads for powder actuated tools, and the same case drawing equipment could produce cases for the old rimfire rifles -- but the market isn't there. Perhaps you could use power loads with a breech seated boolit, if you've got an old .25 Long you want to shoot, though I'd do some homework on pressure curves first...

[Lefty SRH]

I really enjoy my .22 magnum. Now after reading the article I wish they had made the .22 Super mag. necking down the 25 power tool case to hold a 40gr slug for the .22 magnum.

[HARRYMPOPE]

I sold my last Stevens 44 25 rf to a buddy and now thanks to Taylor Machine it`s a 25-20 that was cheaper than other options and it shoots very well.

[9.3X62AL]

The 17 HMR caught on VERY quickly, about like the 40 S&W pistol caliber. Clearly, the HMR filled a niche for a lot of folks. I recall several years ago on a varmint hunt with Buckshot in Cedarville, CA that 17 HMR cases were laying all over the parking areas in town where hunters had parked their trucks and war wagons, and the spent brass spilled out. This new Winchester 17 might catch on, given its performance claims for a "no-deposit/no-return" chambering. Strange as it may seem to most of us here, there are folks who have zero interest in refilling cartridges. Most curious, that. :)

I enjoy shooting the 17 HMR, though it is rather pricey at ~$13 per box of fifty. I've read from some folks that it is a 200-yard varmint caliber. I think that is a bit of a reach, but my rig will keep bullets it likes (20 grain CCI Game Points) inside 1.75" at 200. I might risk shooting a jackrabbit at 200 yards, but not a coyote with any of the HMR's bullet weights. I've hit several jacks at 125 yards, and one at ~160, and the caliber anchors them nicely. A coyote past 150......I dunno. Song dogs can soak up a lot of bullet. This 17 Win Mag may well be the 200 yard coyote zapper for the non-reloader.

[Alan in Vermont]

GROAN!!! Another narrow niche cartridge. It does have the magic words "Super Magnum" so it will probably take off like a wildfire. What money I have to spend on my shooting will NOT be spent on an expensive rimfire. I can my Hornet for not much more that what the ammo for the Super Magnum will probably sell for.

[BCall]

i wish they would make the 25 Long Rimfire again for small game.

I wish they would too. I wonder how the case and head diameter of these compares to the original 25 rimfire. If it is bigger than the 25, I think they are missing out on something that could be good. Take a gun like the CZ 455, and offer the 17 and a 25 cal option with lead loads for small game and heavier jacketed loads for larger varmits (like foxes, javelina), I would think that would be a dandy combo. Make the 25 long enough it won't chamber in older guns, but you could reintroduce the original loading in limited runs for the old guns. That would be great, but it will never happen.

Unfortunately, I think this new 17 Winchester will go the way of the 5mm Remington. I love the 5mm, but it is only because of a few diehards that it is still around. The biggest disadvantage of this new round will be incompatibility with pretty much all modern rimfires. With the HMR, you could take pretty much any 22 mag gun and with a new barrel, boom, you have an HMR. With the larger rim of this new round, that's not an option. The larger rim will limit it to guns that have been converted to work.

I'd give it a try if you could shoot it in a contender, but I don't think it will work with a standard rimfire firing pin, so you would be out of luck. A bunch of guys will automatically think they can rechamber their 17 HMR's for this new round, but that's gonna be a bit of work to move the firing pin, unless some maker like ruger that uses 2 piece bolts offers new bolt heads. The 17 HMR was embraced by a lot of manufacturers because of the ease of change from 22 mag to 17 hmr. That helped it succeed. I don't see this round being embraced in the same way.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I am assuming that this "new" cartridge won`t be interchangeable with the 17 HMR cartridge. So when there "ain`t" no ammo available you then have a dust gathering floor lamp project.Robert

[castaroo]

whats is the 25long rf , never heard of it

[trevj]

whats is the 25long rf , never heard of it

A .25 caliber, rim fire cartridge that was chambered in a fair few light weight "Boys" type rifles and a few Cooey single shots, as well. There were both Long and Short versions.

One of the later hangers-on, along with the .32 rimfires, that outlasted most of the other rim fire cartridges that were common enough long ago.

There are a few around, and they tend o be in pretty good nick, because there was no ammo available and there was no easy conversion either that could be put on the rifle, short of a complete reline or new barrel.

cheers
Trev

[chsparkman]

In the early 70's Remington had a great rimfire cartridge, the 5mm magnum. After many years Aguila is making the ammunition again to feed the old guns. I have one and it is awesome. I'd like to see gun manufacturers pick this one up again.

[castaroo]

A .25 caliber, rim fire cartridge that was chambered in a fair few light weight "Boys" type rifles and a few Cooey single shots, as well. There were both Long and Short versions.

One of the later hangers-on, along with the .32 rimfires, that outlasted most of the other rim fire cartridges that were common enough long ago.

There are a few around, and they tend o be in pretty good nick, because there was no ammo available and there was no easy conversion either that could be put on the rifle, short of a complete reline or new barrel.

cheers
Trev

thank you and yes it would be cool if the ammo was made again, terry

[JeffinNZ]

My only concern for Winchester is that the new round will not be compatible with current rimfire rifles other than single shots. The .17HMR got off to a good start as it could be chambered for anything that would feed .22WMR.

As already said however, for those that don't handload it has great potentional. Good on Winchester for stickying their neck out.

[starmac]

I'm thinking it will be another short lived niche, if not I might get more interested in them in say 20 years or so. I just don't see the reason for another rimfire.

[cdet69]

It makesgood sense for those of us restricted to coyote hunting ith a rimfire during deer season. In my area you can not use a centerfire rifle during deer season. The 17 HMR is marginal as well as the 22 Mag. Hopefully this new round offers better perfomance.

[captaint]

Question - What kind of SS rifle was that guy shooting. Looked a little like a low wall. Mike

[BCall]

He said it was a Win 1885, so it was most likely a modified low wall. I cannot tell the differences in a hi or low wall, but I doubt it would be anything but a low wall.

[375RUGER]

GROAN!!! Another narrow niche cartridge. It does have the magic words "Super Magnum" so it will probably take off like a wildfire.

And the other magic word "Winchester"

[429421Cowboy]

Yep gotta agree, i see way too many things against it, at least for me to ever run out and buy one. First off, i can do the same thing with either a Hornet or the new .17 Hornet, and even if they quit offering loaded ammo for it and it flops, i can make cases from .22 Hornet brass, not so with the rimfire idea, if they quit making ammo, you are DONE. I gotta hand it to anybody brave enough to buy one, cuz if ammo flops it'd be mighty hard to sell the gun as well. I do however see it as a great gift to those who are restricted to rimfires for certain seasons. Other than that, once loaded ammo goes above the cost of a primer, i want to reload my own, especially high volume varmint guns. I burn through several hundred .22 rounds on gophers a day, no way could i afford that if it cost much more, i want to be reloading for max enjoyment of my money.
I also see the lack of any off-the-rack guns that can simply be barreled for it another thing going against it. As others have said, the .17 HMR was a fairly safe bet because most .22 mags could easily be a .17 with a barrel.
I think its a cool idea but not sure how far it'll go!
Thank you for sharing, i always like hearing about new rounds.

[LtFrankDrebbin]

This one may take off here in Australia because of the gun laws. Rimfire = catigory "A" easiest to register.
May be the same in the UK.... dunno...
Will be interesting to see :popcorn:
Personally I have no reason to leap out and get one.

[I'll Make Mine]

For whatever it's worth, it shouldn't be too difficult to convert a .17 WSM to .17 HMR if the ammunition goes away. Set back and rechamber or rebarrel, and if the rim recess is in the bolt, solder in a ring and remachine the recess. For that matter, converting the other way is a little simpler; rechamber and if necessary remachine the rim recess. Not sure a rimfire is really worth all this, but some folks pay twenty times what I have into the one rimfire rifle I currently own...

[o6Patient]

It looks ideal to me, I hope it gets off the ground, the biggest factor will be if they can keep the ammo price
down at a reasonable price point. But again too many market niches and too many choices, their getting quite
carried away in certain respects.

[Doc Highwall]

It is a 1885 Lowwall. It is a strong action that has been chambered in 243 Winchester and 260 Remington by Browning.

[Hammerhead]

I would rather have a .25 than a .17.

[10 ga]

I really enjoy my .22 magnum. Now after reading the article I wish they had made the .22 Super mag. necking down the 25 power tool case to hold a 40gr slug for the .22 magnum.

My guess and the talk is it will be a whole line of new rf with the 17 first, then followed by 20 and 22.

I have a 17 fireball and 17 remmy. Love them but can't use them a lot of places cause they are cf and that aint legal a lot of my area for fur and general hunting.

10 ga