anybody got any wc857 load info

[number7tn]

thinking of ordering some wc857 powder , i read its similar to h-1000 and rl-25. , i use a lot of h-1000 and ramshot mag whitch is close in burn rate. i haven't tried rl-25 in my gun yet.

gun is a savage 110 in 300wm, does anyone have any info on the wc857 in the 300wm with jacketed? any help would be appriciated.
if its too close to wc860 to tell much diffrence then ill just get the 860 cause its a little cheaper.

thanks for any and all info.
GOD BLESS
Darrell

[HighHook]

Do you mean wc 867?

i believe wc867 is close to AA8700 try to work loads up accordingly. A lot of guys including myself use this powder. good stuff...

[number7tn]

HighHook, i appriciate it,
yea i know wc867 is close to aa8700 and h-870. but this is in fact wc857.
here is all the info i got on it,


WC857
New item. A slow burning ball type powder used in the .50BMG tracer ammo. This powder burns faster than the typical WC860-WC872 series of powders. Burn rate seems to be similar to Hodgdon H1000 or Reloder 25. An excellent choice for the .300 Win Mag, 7mm Mag, and other magnum type calibers. Good results in .25-06 with heavy bullets. This is pulldown ball powder from Lake City.

maybe ill have to be the guinnie pig and try it out, but was hoping someone might have some start suggestions.
guess maybe use h-1000 data and reduce it like 5 to 10percent and work up.

by the way i have used h-1000 and from sabot loads around 87grain total for bullet and sabot up to 200 grain jacketed and it does good with no unburnt powder.

GOD BLESS
Darrell

[HighHook]

Hey Darrell, My bad.
I just did a quick search and see that. so many wc powders... always fun to try new stuff for that perfect load when bought at a reduced price.
Cheers,
Paul

[number7tn]

thanks paul , yea seems like there is a lot of wc powders, kinda hard to keep up. and as you said it is fun to play around with diffrent stuff to try and find a good load.

i hadnt seen the wc857 before, but from what little info ive found seems like it might do good for what i need it for , mostly 300wm and maybe heavy bullets in 30/06.
and even though 860 is slower i might get some of it also if funds let me to play with in 30-30 as well as the 30-06 and 300wm. i have found data for it on cast pics for the 30-30 and 30-06

have a great day,
GOD BLESS
Darrell

[Deputy67]

Ive been playing with WC 857 for a few months. I have a Savage 111 long range hunter 338 Lapua Here is what I found out.
Using 225gr SST
82gr 2600fps col3.541 too slow
92gr 2737fps
98gr 2961fpslow hi-3059fps
99.5gr string 1 2935 2- 2973 3-2860fps
102gr compressed speed dropped 2850fps col3.541
dec 16 2012 2pm 55deg 59 humidity I changed the col to .0050 off lands to a col of 3.6
I went to 102Gr 50 off the lands and it hit 3107fps this powder does not like to be compressed.
I have seen a few red paint specs in the powder so it is pulled from tracers. I have seen some greenish blue residue around the fired cased I dont think it is corrosive it wipes off I had primer problems with CCI34 found out the primers were good the rifle did not have enough oomph to set them off called CCI and was told FED215. problem solved im still using this powder it works it is cheap got it from HI tec ammo Cash and Carry. I just loaded 50 this morning.

Hope this helps.

[number7tn]

hey Deputy67, i sure appriciate the info. it will sure help a lot when my powder gets here, i got to order 3 jugs (wc857, 860, and 872)from gibrass jan 5th as a CHRISTMAS present. didnt have any idea they were that far behind when i ordered till i got my order comf. email , said it would be 3 to 4 weeks. oh well i guess everyone is behind on orders or out of stock.
i did ask jeff from gibrass if he had any data and he gave me a load for a 25-06, and said i should be fine using 8700 data reduced 10% for start loads.

again thank you for posting that , ill probably start with light loads in my savage 110 in 300wm, , i have wanted a 338 lapua a long time , sounds like you got a nice rifle.

i see your a new member, welcome to the site. im sure you will find this site and the ppl on it the best around as i have.
thanks again , oh by the way i use fed 215 match primers for this gun.

have a great day,
GOD BLESS
Darrell

[Deputy67]

59942

Darrell here is a pic of one of my cases with some greenish blue stains in and around the neck im not sure what it means about the powder cell phone pic hope its clear enough to see. My col from my last post was 3.608 im moving it out to 3.623 and 101.5gr of wc857 ill post results in a few weeks when i get a chance

Thanks Eric

[number7tn]

thanks Eric, i have saw range brass i picked up with that greenish blue stain on them but just figured it was from laying outside a while, maybe it is something diffrent??
long as it dont seem to be corrosive and cleans off easy it dont worry me much. might be something to do with the tracer residue burning.

thanks for posting that.
are you seeing any pressure signs with any of your loads?

i dont have a chrony , but plan on getting one soon as i can, but i have been thinking of around 65 to 67 gr starting loads with some 175gr smk bullets for the 300win, i dont think that would be too much to start with, unless someone says it is.

if i ever get the powder ill post my results, may start at the 65-67gr load and work up 2 gr at a time till i see pressure signs.

anyway thank you for the info.
GOD BLESS
Darrell

[Deputy67]

The primers just start show some flattening near 102gr the bolt is not sticky and 3100fps is near the fastest ive seen published for a boolit at that weight that was done with reloader33. Adding any more powder did not work when compressed 102 or less works 103 is compressed. At 98gr the recoil is verry light 1gr =1% when using 100gr loads. After i load I put the round near my ear and shake it and listen for the powder to shake so I know it is not compressed not counting brass im loading it for around 51 Cents. Add 20 cents for brass if I can load 10 times. Yep get a crony

Thanks Eric

[number7tn]

thanks for the info Eric, i appriciate it. yea those are very good numbers for that bullet, i looked at a couple of my manuals and didnt see any max loads with that high of velocity , i hope it does as good for me.
have you done any accuracy testing yet?
thanks again.
GOD BLESS
Darrell

[Deputy67]

Im going to work on getting groups My DNZ mount gave me a few problems im going to put it to the test until I sure it in not moving. I got this powder and took a chance that it would be to slow burning and would never get enough velocity, but that did not happen and so far im happy with it. If I went to a heavier boolit it would leave less room for powder. I would start looking for your 175GR now Midway was out of them I friend I have found some surplus 175s and had to slightly resize them and they looked good . I think some of the military sniper rounds were using 220gr matchkings. Interesting enough if you cant find them 175 match kings you might try 208 amax that were available as of 5min ago at midway. 175 match kings had a coeficient of .505 the 208 amax was .648 verry impressive. all the powders listed on Hodgdon website for 208 amax ranged from 60grs to 74grns. Starting out somewhere about 65 like you said seems right. I have never used any other powder or bullet for my 338 .
Thanks Eric

[number7tn]

sorry i didnt reply till now, yea i have shot some of the 168gr a-max and sure liked em, liked them better than 175 smks, and they were as accurate or better than 200gr smks i had , i would like to try some 208gr a-max , one thing i like about the hornady bullets is thet are great at target shootin plus from what ive read is they are good for hunting also. i know that a 168gr made a quart jar filled with water look like a gernade hit it at around 100yds. never did find the lid or ring or anything else left of the jar lol.
the reason i was gonna try the powder with the 175 smks is cause i already have a few, i think i should have about 400, these were the pulls but the price was good. i have had to size a few , also the length varys quite a bit , but i have seperated most of them by mic'in em and weighing them. i have shot some and didnt seperate them , just random bullets and they done good as far as grouping. one 4 shot group i shot looked like only a 3 shot group , only 3 holes , and if i missed the target with the other one it was by atleast 4 feet as i had white cardboard all around my target.

anyway i was gonna tell you i finaly got to trade a little and got a new beta master chrony. still tryin to get it to work right, i think what happened is the wrong light and i was too close cause some heavy power pistol loads out of my 45acp was all over the place, it showed from 315fps to over 4500fps from the same load lol. but i been readin about puttin cardboard on the sides to sheild light and a few other tricks. ill get it figured out sometime. also in the process of building some bullet stoppin armor to set in front of it on a tripod. it will be 3 or 4, hard steel 1/2'' plates and a 2x4 and a piece of a tire to prevent any ricochey.

sorry for the long post , i guess i was in a typin mood r somethin.
keep me updated when you can on how your 338 is doing.
have a great day,
GOD BLESS
Darrell

[number7tn]

just an update, got my powder today , took from jan 5th till feb 15th to get here , but im not complaning. it is very good lookin powder, i havent seen any red fllakes in it at all, it smells like brand new powder, you know that acitone kinda sent. it looks identical to the ramshot mag powder. i know it aint the same and it is not new powder as the lable says it is pulldown powder , just sayin i cant tell it by the smell or looks from new ram. mag powder.

anyway i loaded 65.5 gr behind a 175smk to just check for any pressure sighns , it was 10:30pm whileago and i pulled the trigger , no pressure sighns at all, also no unburned powder in barrel.
seems like it will do ok for me , im gonna work up to the pressure comes up to have a set limit for max, then ill chrono some and test accuracy.

i think ill go 67gr next. oh i didnt see any of the blue green stuff either, maybe when pressures come up i will. ill keep youall updated.
have a great weekend,
GOD BLESS
Darrell

[Dark Helmet]

Try to Chrono a known safe charge, for example, 66 grains of each powder that you already have experience with, in the same session. The velocities you get should give you an idea of the relative burn rates of the powders you are trying. If your WC 857 loads are already burning clean at 65.5 gr. i would think that i would move upwards on the charge kinda slow til I had a good handle on the pressure curve. Also, how close to a compressed load are you? I'd be cautious of approachng a compressed load due to what Deputy67 said above.

[number7tn]

thanks for the reply Dark Helmet, i have worked up to 75gr now , still no pressure signs at all, tho the recoil is starting to feel more like a 300 than a 30-30.
no hard bolt lift , easy extraction, primers still look same as the first load, the fp indent is same, case not streching , no bad battery acid smell etc..

i have started getting a little of fouling around the neck, not much but its not the bluegreen , its black , kinda like a dark grafite, it wipes off easy when you touch it.

one thing tho , it is cold here , snow on the ground and cold gusts of wind, so it will be a while before i get to play with the chrony, also im sure the loads will change when summer gets here. i tested the 72.7 gr load and the 75gr load thismorning and i would say it is in the low 20's out side.

im not close to being a compressed load yet , maybe around 90% if that.
by the way what im working with is , neck sized and trimmed ppu brass, federal magnum match 215m primers, 175grsmk pulled bullets , i mic and weigh each and have used the best for this testing. im seating them to 3.4 , so thats 0.06 more than they call for.

shooting them from an older (but very little used) savage 110, the one before they went with the rounded top where the scope mount sits. factory barrel 24'', got a laminated stock i put on it and bedded with acraglass , barrel and safty tang is free floated. i used jb qwik weld to bed the 1 piece weaver scope mount and put a konus m-30 (i think is what it is) 8.5-32x52 scope with weaver medium 30mm 6hole rings, also the most important to me anyway is a sling i dont know what kind but it was my papaws before he passed away in 99, him and my dad is why i got into guns and shooting.

i know most dont care about the details i gave on my gun , but i always like to hear what other ppl is shooting.

anyway back on subject, i might go 77gr next and then if no preaaure signs i will start going 1 gr at a time.

when i get my crony out and all figured out ill test some known loads with these loads.
will let you all know with the next tests.

may GOD BLESS each and every one,
have a great sunday , and a great week
GOD BLESS
Darrell

[Dark Helmet]

Sounds good so far! What is the water capacity of those neck sized PPU cases? How much does a case full to the top of the neck of WC857 weigh?

[Wayne Smith]

Back when I was in grad school I had a 25-06. Was at the range (South Coast Gun Club, not there any more) shooting it once when another shooter and I started comparing notes. He told me about H870 and said "You gotta try this stuff. It's so slow it burns all the way to the target!"

Been a long time but I did love that powder in that rifle, especially with the Sierra seconds 86gr(?) boolit. I used targets that had 4 square bulls on it. At 100 yds I would put four groups per bull - one at each corner. Those were 5 shot groups, too. That was with a Remington 700ADL.

[number7tn]

Wayne Smith, i have read on here before , maybe it was in one of your posts about powder so slow it burns to the target. sure is nice groups for your25-06, or any gun/caliber.

Dark Helmet, im not for sure the water cap. of the ppu cases, i did fill one to the very top, i didnt pack it in but tapped it on the bench to seddle it and i got 93.5gr of the powder in it, leveled off , anymore would have ran out. i also tried a fc-10 nickle case that was neck sized and it held like 89.3.
i have worked on up in the ppu cases and think im gonna limit it to 80.5 or 81 gr. it is not compressed but its right at it. 81gr puts a small crater around the fp indent, and the bolt handle i noticed a little , very little stiffer lift. primers are not flat , also shot 82 and all the same as 81 but started getting a slight acid smell on the fired case and the muzzle. i have saw worse pressure signs in this rifle before but im not gonna push it.
if i use any other brass ill check the volume and reduce it if i have to.
still havent got to chrono any loads yet, not done any acuracy tests either. i plan on loadin 3 with 81gr and chrono them , then ill probably go back to around 75 and work up till the best group.
its been cold , wet , rain and snow and wind here , soon as it fairs up ill try and get some vel. numbers. maybe a group or two.

also have been havin other stuff keepin me from doin much playing with shootin. sickness in family is the main thing right now.

anyway ill update when i can do more testin and i plan on starting to play with 872 powder in this rifle maybe with some 220gr hornady bullets i got and some 30-30 with cast and 30-06 with cast and jacketed.

hope all of you has a great week
GOD BLESS
Darrell

[Dark Helmet]

Load yourself up 6 at 80 grains- 3 for chrony/3 for accuracy if the velocity isn't crazy high.
Sounds like it is burning quite a bit faster than 8700, maybe even faster than RL 25.

[number7tn]

yea i would say it is faster than those , i would say h-1000 or maybe a lil faster.

i chrono'd a few but my readings isnt right , i must be doing somethin wrong. yestarday i set it up around 12 feet away and shot 4 loaded at 80.5gr,
1st was 2764 ,
2nd was 2778 ,
3rd said error,
4th said 2799,,,,,,,,

today i tried again ,
1st was an error,
2nd was 2800 ,
3rd was 2837,
4th was 2822 ,

then i tried 3 i had loaded with hornady brass and 75.5 gr of ramshot mad and a 220gr hornady rn bullet ,
1st shot on that was 1550 ,
2nd was 2760,
3rd was 480.8...
so there is something not right somewhere , maybe i just aint used to using a chrony i dont know.
i might load 3 or 4 up with the 80.5gr load and see if it will hit a 12inch tarfet at around 100yd.


by the way it has been sunny when i used the chrony , i used the diffusers , i tried to shoot straight thru it about 4 to 6 in above the sensor eyes , i aimed around 7 to 8 inches above , i tried to aim at the same place each time , i was actually lookin at the bottom corner of a pallet i have up out there to staple targets to. but i could make out the chrony in the scope enuff to tell.

any ideas what i might be doin wrong with the chrony? should i cut some cardboard and wire tiee it to the sids for a light sheild??

anyway i hope youall have a great day,
GOD BLESS
Darrell

[tiwimon]

Were those first two sets of four with the 168gr A Max? What primer, regular large rifle or magnum?

I have a 300 WM and just purchased WC857 from a gun show (lot number 122910) and was wanting to try with what I had on hand, as I cannot find that 168Gr A max around here (par for the course everything being out of stock anymore) so unless I come across something else all I have are Hornady 180 GR SST Interlock or my 309 sized Lyman 311299 200gr and having a heck of a time finding any info

I guess if I am going to start tinkering with unpublished loads I need to get a chrony?


yea i would say it is faster than those , i would say h-1000 or maybe a lil faster.

i chrono'd a few but my readings isnt right , i must be doing somethin wrong. yestarday i set it up around 12 feet away and shot 4 loaded at 80.5gr,
1st was 2764 ,
2nd was 2778 ,
3rd said error,
4th said 2799,,,,,,,,

today i tried again ,
1st was an error,
2nd was 2800 ,
3rd was 2837,
4th was 2822 ,

then i tried 3 i had loaded with hornady brass and 75.5 gr of ramshot mad and a 220gr hornady rn bullet ,
1st shot on that was 1550 ,
2nd was 2760,
3rd was 480.8...
so there is something not right somewhere , maybe i just aint used to using a chrony i dont know.
i might load 3 or 4 up with the 80.5gr load and see if it will hit a 12inch tarfet at around 100yd.


by the way it has been sunny when i used the chrony , i used the diffusers , i tried to shoot straight thru it about 4 to 6 in above the sensor eyes , i aimed around 7 to 8 inches above , i tried to aim at the same place each time , i was actually lookin at the bottom corner of a pallet i have up out there to staple targets to. but i could make out the chrony in the scope enuff to tell.

any ideas what i might be doin wrong with the chrony? should i cut some cardboard and wire tiee it to the sids for a light sheild??

anyway i hope youall have a great day,
GOD BLESS
Darrell

[number7tn]

hi tiwimon, sorry it took so long to reply. i have been using 175gr smk bullets thru all the wc857 loads. im sure your 180gr sst's will be close to the same , i think my lot number is diffrent than yours though.
i have been using federal 215m magnum match primers , and mostly ppu (privi) brass , but have used some nickle fc brass and some winchester nickle ww-super brass. the capacity on the fc brass is a little less than the other , oh i also used hornady brass for a few , and it all seemed the same pressure wise except the fc brass.
i have been seating them at an oal of 3.4 ,, and on a few i tried 3.45 .

the chrony numbers i posted up there is not right , or atleast i dont think they are , i havent took time to work out the bugs with the chrony yet , so dont go by them.

i know lot numbers means a bunch in surp powders and i cant say for sure where to start , but i will say if it was mine id use whatever primer i had and the 180gr sst's you got and start around 65 to 68 gr and work up keeping everything the same (except powder charge) go slow till you see pressure sighns or get that acid/amonia smell from the fired case.

hope this helps a little.
have a great week
GOD BLESS
Darrell

[Dark Helmet]

By "burning quite a bit faster", I meant the rate at which the powder is being consumed by burning in your cartridges. Faster meaning higher pressures (and velocities) up to the point of maximum pressure.
Try placing your chrongraph at 15 ft. to get it out of the muzzle blast.

[tiwimon]

hi tiwimon, sorry it took so long to reply. i have been using 175gr smk bullets thru all the wc857 loads. im sure your 180gr sst's will be close to the same , i think my lot number is diffrent than yours though.
i have been using federal 215m magnum match primers , and mostly ppu (privi) brass , but have used some nickle fc brass and some winchester nickle ww-super brass. the capacity on the fc brass is a little less than the other , oh i also used hornady brass for a few , and it all seemed the same pressure wise except the fc brass.
i have been seating them at an oal of 3.4 ,, and on a few i tried 3.45 .

the chrony numbers i posted up there is not right , or atleast i dont think they are , i havent took time to work out the bugs with the chrony yet , so dont go by them.

i know lot numbers means a bunch in surp powders and i cant say for sure where to start , but i will say if it was mine id use whatever primer i had and the 180gr sst's you got and start around 65 to 68 gr and work up keeping everything the same (except powder charge) go slow till you see pressure sighns or get that acid/amonia smell from the fired case.

hope this helps a little.
have a great week
GOD BLESS
Darrell

Hey number7tn, thanks for the reply, its a huge help - as I had nada, zip, zilch before so much appreciated - I'll be loading some up at 65 with my magnum primers tomorrow, maybe I can get to the range as well and see how they do. Next up on my list of wants/needs is a chrony!
Have a great week(end) to you as well!

[Deputy67]

629556295662957

WC857 CRONY RESULTS 338 LAPUA
Feb 17 2013 48 deg 33% humidity empty case capacity wc857 111 GR
I fixed my DNZ scope mount issues Thanks to Tim Work at DNZ I sent an email after 830pm and got a reply about 9 good customer service is and understatement.

I used 101.5 of wc857 fed 215match norma brass not good results 2 strings
1 3042 1 2885
2 3087 2 2921
3 3114 3 3044 FPS
all at 15 feet.

The results were not consistant Groups were not good. But after doing research I need to do cronographing from a rest and 10 shot strings. I may have lower the charge and or go to a heavy boolit 300gr. I have my first 50 brass going on its 4th loading it only needed a light trimming so far.


Darell I sent some pics of my old crony stand in the front i have angle iron 1/4 thick Pistol and shotgun i use nothing but for rifle with scope I put some paper behind it . The top hole is where i aim and the bottom home is where the boolit goes start high . You will notice on one pic off to the side a hole where a 55gr zmax hit the crony shield and sent fragments through the paper. I nicked it with the 338 once I guess the angle helps because ive already punched holes in 3/8 mild plate @130yds. Im going to have to modifi the stand so it is adjustable up and down.

Darell I noticed your 300wm came alive at 75gr. Ill keep working on it when I can .

Thanks Eric

[number7tn]

thanks for the pics Eric, gave me some more ideas. i havent done much loading or shooting in a while mostly due to the weather. but when i get a chance ill try and get the chrony stuff figured out. thanks again.

tiwimon im glad to help a little, i started with nothin for a 300wm with the wc857, all i had was a load jeff barlet used in his 25-06 and he said it should be fine using h-870 data minus 10% but i went 15% or so less just to be safe.
let us know how it does for you when you can.
thanks
hope all has a great weekend comming up.
GOD BLESS
Darrell

[PMB]

Howdy Brethren.
When I used to load H857 (not a pulldown, but straight from Hodgdon) all I kept were my hand written notes.
If memory serves, I used it from .243 with a heavy boolit to 30-06 with 180gr, and up to 220gr, heaviest I used at the time.
It's been a few years since I have loaded with it, and doggone it, there's not a note to be found. I have a goodly supply of H857 (about 40 pounds) and itching to load with it again.
I can't find it in the manuals that I have.
Do any of you gentlemen have H857 actually listed in a manual? If so, which one?
Thanks, and kind regards.
Mike

[ammohead]

Deputy67,

Try removing the paper right behind your chrono and see if your odd readings continue or clear up.

[number7tn]

Howdy Brethren.
When I used to load H857 (not a pulldown, but straight from Hodgdon) all I kept were my hand written notes.
If memory serves, I used it from .243 with a heavy boolit to 30-06 with 180gr, and up to 220gr, heaviest I used at the time.
It's been a few years since I have loaded with it, and doggone it, there's not a note to be found. I have a goodly supply of H857 (about 40 pounds) and itching to load with it again.
I can't find it in the manuals that I have.
Do any of you gentlemen have H857 actually listed in a manual? If so, which one?
Thanks, and kind regards.
Mike

Mike i wished i could help you out , but i never saw any data for h857 , and didnt know they made h857.
i dont know if this is the same powder or not, but i didnt have much at all to go on when i started usin it.
i do know it wont make the action work on an sks , i put a case full to the top, pushed a 200 grain boolit in it, it was tryin to push the boolit out befor i could crimp it, didnt bulg the case but was very compressed , and i had a fed 215 mag match primer in it , still left lot of unburnt powder and wouldnt cycle my sks.
i did finally get it to cycle my rem 7400 in 30/06 with a fed mag primer and a 220 gr jacketed round nose , but i still had a lot of unburnt powder blowing back in the chamber. didnt have it compressed but just quit workin on it and havent done any more with it.
it does do good in my 300wm , no unburnt powder and is very accurate, but i havent checked the velocity yet.
i have also used it in 30-30 with diffrent boolits/bullets, lot of unburnt powder in chamber.

i know this prob dont help you much , but if i ever find h857 data ill let you know.
by the way , welcome to Cast Boolits.
have a great day.
GOD BLESS
Darrell